From - Thu Oct 16 12:46:47 1997 Path: news.mitre.org!blanket.mitre.org!agate!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news1.digital.com!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!not-for-mail From: Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.enet.dec_nospam.com> Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Subject: Re: Alpha clone running VMS Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:54:56 -0400 Organization: OpenVMS Engineering Lines: 93 Message-ID: <34460090.4BCBADAD@star.enet.dec_nospam.com> References: <1997Oct13.101043@urchin> NNTP-Posting-Host: fgkaxp.zko.dec.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0b8Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.1 DEC 3000 - M700) inge@urchin wrote: > > We're evaluating two Digital Personal Workstation 500s (PWS500a and > PWS500au) running NT and dUNIX. Nice little machines. > > Now I've got the opportunity to replace my venerable VAXstation 3500, > so tried to buy one of these with (Open)VMS. DEC says no, we won't > sell them with VMS. > > So I started looking at Alpha clone vendors to see if any offer something > comparable running VMS. Well, Nth Generation does. See > http://www.nthgencomp.com > for details. Probably a misnomer to call these clones as the VMS version > has an Alpha CPU, motherboard, ethernet card, graphics card, CDROM and > Keyboard all made by DEC. > > The VMS version comes with an Intraserver ITI3140 UltraSCSI adapter. > Intraserver provides the VMS device driver. They support a system disk > on this adapter, including booting and building an OS with VMS 7.1 using > a new VMS feature called Third Party Boot. Their install guide says you > boot with the VMS CD and their driver diskette mounted using > >>> b -fl 0,80000 dka400,dva0 > Haven't been able to find this in any of the version 7.1 documentation. > > So my questions to the net are: > > 1) any experience running VMS on an Alpha clone? > 2) any experience with the Intraserver SCSI adapters, in particular > driving the system disk? > 3) is the Third Party Boot feature documented anywhere? > > Appreciate any comments. > John Ingebretsen > inge@homer.ds.boeing.com Well, I wrote much of the Third Party Boot support for OpenVMS (my wife wrote the rest ;-). The primary motivation was to allow other groups in Digital (like Storage) to add new controller support in a well architected way. Turned out that Intraserver (who employs some ex-DECies) knew about the work we were doing, and asked if they could field test it for external use. Hey, anybody who wants to write VMS drivers is OK by me. So IntraServer was the first to use this feature, that we had not decided to document in V7.1. But it is fully supported. The gotcha is bootdriver (console) support for the controller. It turns out that the IntraServer card is compatable with the NCR810 (Symbios 875, etc)... and clone makers can also obtain the SRM console developers kit to write their own console boot support. So anyone wanting to do this has to be pretty serious, since it takes some pretty serious skills to do (or pay for) console support and a reliable/fast disk driver. In any case, 3PB works by allowing a secondary boot media to be specified on the command line. This secondary media could be the floppy, or even the same CD as the installation disk (you would then need to swap disks in and out). At the end of VMS installation, the same disk is then used to install the runtime support, and the final boot of the system disk the controller is handle just as if it had been shipped by VMS. This was a subproject of a larger effort for OpenVMS Alpha V7.1 that altered the way device configuration is done by default - if you now look on your disk for SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$CONFIG.DAT you will see all the devices that OpenVMS will autoconfigure. It is this mechanism that 3PB uses (when installed, a third party device will have an entry in SYS$SYSTEM:SYS$USER_CONFIG.DAT). The autoconfiguration aspects *are* documented in the V7.1 new features manual. In addition, the same boot method will eventually be used to deliver some new system platform support (sys manual. In addition, the same boot method will eventually be used to deliver some new system platform support (systems needing a new SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_XXXX.EXE to boot) in the future... independently of other release schedules. I cannot speak for Digital in regards to the performance or reliability of the IntraServer SCSI cards. However, others who have used them (my wife for instance, now no longer at DEC) have spoken highly of them, and indicated that they are really, really ***fast***. All of the above is OpenVMS Alpha V7.1 based. -- Frederick G. Kleinsorge | Standard disclaimer: All opinions OpenVMS Engineering | expressed are mine, and not those of my Digital Equipment Corporation | employer, or any one else with half a kleinsorge@star.enet.dec.com | clue. No refunds on sale items.