From: CRDGW2::CRDGW2::MRGATE::"SMTP::PREP.AI.MIT.EDU::INFO-G++-REQUEST" 27-JUN-1989 18:13 To: MRGATE::"ARISIA::EVERHART" Subj: What price C++ ??? Received: by life.ai.mit.edu (4.0/AI-4.10) id AA02598; Tue, 27 Jun 89 16:25:33 EDT Return-Path: Received: from tut.cis.ohio-state.edu ([128.146.8.60]) by life.ai.mit.edu (4.0/AI-4.10) id AA02548; Tue, 27 Jun 89 16:21:56 EDT Received: by tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (5.59/4.890612) id AA13492; Tue, 27 Jun 89 16:20:37 EDT Received: from USENET by tut.cis.ohio-state.edu with netnews for info-g++@prep.ai.mit.edu (info-g++@prep.ai.mit.edu) (contact usenet@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu if you have questions) Date: 27 Jun 89 19:37:33 GMT From: ginosko!sacco@uunet.uu.net (Joseph E. Sacco) Organization: Mitchell and Gauthier Associates Subject: What price C++ ??? Message-Id: <50@eileen.samsung.com> Sender: info-g++-request@prep.ai.mit.edu To: info-g++@prep.ai.mit.edu For many of us in the C++ community who have been waiting anxiously for months for the release of Rev 2.0, the announcement of June 30 as THE official release date evoked an audible sigh of relief. Finally, features that have been discussed for months in papers and on the net would be available: Typesafe linkage, overloading of the operators new and delete, smart pointers, multiple inheritance and more. No longer would it be necessary to call At&T Software Licensing every two weeks just to hear "I don't know when. Sorry." One could now plan a C++ based product. I called At&T Software Licensing the other day to inquire about upgrading my single CPU license for Rev 1.2. When I was informed of the pricing structure I DAMN NEAR DIED! There was this long pause while I attempted to regain some modicum of composure. I asked them to FAX me the information on an offical letter head that I could present to my management. The information is summarized below: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "As per our discussions the pricing structure for C++ Release 1.2 and 2.0 are as follows: AT&T Language System, Rel 1.2 C++ Language System, Rel 2.0 Initial CPU: $2000 Initial CPU: $20,000 Each Additional CPU: $1000 Each Additional CPU: $5000 Initial Sublicensing Fee: $2000 Initial Sublicensing Fee: N/A (June 30th) Upgrade Fee: * See Below Notes 1&2 *NOTES: 1. Upgrade fees are available ONLY to Licensees of AT&T C++ Language System,1.2. 2. LICENSEES of AT&T C++ Language System, Release 1.2 who, before September 30, 1989, fully execute a license for AT&T C++ Language System, Release 2.0 may upgrade the initial DESIGNATED CPU for a fee of $10,000, and additional DESIGNATED CPU's for a fee of $2,500, per CPU. Please also note that June 30, 1989 will be At&T's cut-off date for issuing any licensing arrangements for C++, Release 1.2. If you have any further questions, please call me on 1-800-828-UNIX." --------------------------------------------------------------------------- There as also a brief, verbal discussion on fees for universities. I believe it was stated that there would be no more site licenses but rather a flat fee of $300 per CPU. The university fee schedule was not included in the FAX I received so I do not have that information in writing. I was under the impression that AT&T was interested in making C++ the next "standard" language of choice. I see the five-to-ten-fold fee increase to be counter to that goal at this time. It would appear that AT&T is pushing end users toward third party suppliers of binary versions of the translator. I believe that action to be premature. John Carolan described Release 1.2 as $2000 worth of bugs. He was correct. However, given access to the source code and the C++ community through the net, one could work with Release 1.2 to learn the language and sketch inital designs. Given the current state of flux of the language [and the translator], I would not consider it prudent at this time to to undertake the development of a commerical software product without access to the source code. It is shear folly to attempt to schedule a software product when that schedule will be dependent upon some third party vendor providing timely fixes to translator bugs that will most certainly be present. Without source code and access to the C++ community, the response time to fix a bug will be measured in months rather than days. You just cannot plan ahead with any degree of confidence. Eventually the language and the translator will stabilize sufficiently that access to source code will be unnecessary for most development of applications software. Afterall, I do not have source code for either UNIX or my C compiler and yet I get along quite well without source. Here it is a matter of degree. There may be bugs in these products but their effects upon my development efforts are minimal. They are mature products that have gone through many release cycles. What to do? There are choices: (i) Do not use C++ for the development of commerical products at this time. Study it, play with it, but wait until things settle down. Your job may depend upon your decision. (ii) Use g++ from the Free Software Foundation. This is a true compiler [native code generator] with a source level debugger. The current version, 1.35.1-, appears to have incorporated most or all of the features of Release 2.0 in addition to some of their own. However, I suggest that you have your attorneys carefully study the "copy-left" agreement associated with this offering to prevent "misunderstandings" about what you can an cannot use in a commerical product. (iii) Given the five-to-ten-fold increase in the fee schedule for source code, the fees for binary versions of release 2.0 may rise substantially. Since the binaries will not be cheap, it might be worthwhile to consider using another object oriented language like Eiffel or Objective-C. Here, if there is a problem you can deal directly with the people at the "source" rather than through middlemen. Consequently, I suspect that the response time to bugs will be considerably better. (iv) Contact the people at AT&T Software Licensing and discuss the matter with them. They should listen to their customer base. A person to contact at AT&T is the manager of software licensing: Mr. Otis Wilson AT&T Information Systems UNIX Software Licensing P.O. Box 25000 Greensboro, NC 27420 phone: 1-800-828-UNIX FAX: (919)-855-2753 e-mail: ...ihnp4!attunix!gcss20!olw Be advised that Mr. Otis did not define the fee schedule but has access to those who did. As always, please observe net etiquette when communicating with Mr. Wilson. He is reputed to be someone who listens to his customers. Joe