From: CRDGW2::CRDGW2::MRGATE::"SMTP::CRVAX.SRI.COM::RELAY-INFO-VAX" 17-OCT-1989 04:50 To: MRGATE::"ARISIA::EVERHART" Subj: Re: Additional Information of Clyde's claims against WATCH Received: From UCBVAX.BERKELEY.EDU by GIZMO.SRI.COM with TCP; Tue, 17 OCT 89 01:14:36 PDT Received: by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (5.61/1.39) id AA09690; Tue, 17 Oct 89 01:04:42 -0700 Received: from USENET by ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU with netnews for info-vax@kl.sri.com (info-vax@kl.sri.com) (contact usenet@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU if you have questions) Date: 17 Oct 89 02:54:06 GMT From: att!mcdchg!ddsw1!karl@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Karl Denninger) Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc., Mundelein, IL Subject: Re: Additional Information of Clyde's claims against WATCH Message-Id: <1989Oct17.025406.7536@ddsw1.MCS.COM> References: <8910152353.AA26195@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> Sender: info-vax-request@kl.sri.com To: info-vax@kl.sri.com In article <8910152353.AA26195@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> TNIELAND@FALCON.BERKELEY.EDU (Ted Nieland) writes: >Here is additional information on the Clyde Patent and their case against >WATCH. I am posting this due to the requests for additional information. >Since most of the people whoi read this forum are DECUS Members and Clyde is >requesting that DECUS stop distributing WATCH, I believe that all concerned >parties (the membership of DECUS) as a right to know what Clyde is claims is >the infringement. Sure. And Clyde is going to be quite pissed and bummed when they see this prior art, which was done far before they even tried to file the claim! I read through this, and while doing so got one of those "where have I seen this before" things. Then I realized it -- this is the EXACT procedure, process, what-have-you that I used a long time ago to implement and perfect a product called ERACS 6 for a completely different machine! >Clyde's Patent (The following information is directly from the patent, enjoy > the legal language) > >Patent Number: 4,701,848 >Date of Patent: Oct. 20, 1987 >Title: System for effectively paralleling Computer Terminal Devices >Inventor: Robert A. Clyde >Assignee: Clyde, Inc. >Appl. No.: 673,128 >Filed: Nov. 19, 1984 > >Abstract of Patent: > >In a digital computing system such as Digital Equipment Corporation's VAX >computer system which uses the VMS operating system in which terminal devices >are connected to the system through terminal dependant device drivers so that >the operating system of the computer system need not be modified each time a >terminal device is added or subtracted, a system and method is provided for >effectively paralleling an auxiliary terminal with a selected terminal of the >system soo that the selected terminal can be monitored for instruction, >security, audit, or other purposes, by creating a user controlling driver and >a user controlling device coupled thereto, and coupling the user controlling >driver and user controlling device combination between the terminal >independant device driver and the terminal dependant device driver associated >with the terminal device to be paralleled so that the output of the terminal >independant device driver intended for the terminal dependant device driver >passes through the user controlling driver and user controlling device defore >arriving at the terminal dependant device driver and the output of the >terminal dependant device driver intended for the terminal independant device >driver passes throught the user controlling driver and user controlling device >before arriving at the terminal independant device driver and making the >information passing through the user controlling driver available to the >auxiliary terminal device. Oh, Clyde is going to be really pissed. They are screwed. I have proof of prior art. Specifically, a remote access and control package for the Tandy Model IIII & IVs, called ERACS. This was a COMMERCIAL product, and was sold for several years. It was created originally in 1981! Several followup versions were produced which included more functionality in the user section, but were conceptually identical and in addition did use the EXACT process(es) that are claimed in the Clyde patent! Someone didn't do their research when they filed this baby. >The following is the text of their claim against WATCH (abbreviated, their >claim took 5 pages and referenced specific parts of the patent) > >"The subject of this document is to prove that the WATCH program violated claim >1 of the United States Patent for a System for Effectively Paralleling >Computer Terminal Devices (Patent number 4,701,848)." ..... >"Step 1. Generating a third driver program > >"The third driver program is loased into system non-paged memory by the WATCH >Program." Our TTDRIVER did exactly this (it was loaded during the remote session initiation sequence by a program called IPL). >"Step 2. Identifying an original set of vectors..." > >"As discussed in the patent the Put Output Data Routine (7:30-7:45) >and the Get Input Data routine (7:45-7:65) are an original set of vectors used >by the first and second driver programs to establish a communications link >between them. The comments in section A below show the original Get Output >Data and Get Input Data Routines." My TTDRIVER then found the original set of interrupt vectors which were then used to establish a link between them. The code clearly shows the original vectors and routines which are saved before being replaced. >"Step 3. Generating a new set of vectors..." > >"The comments in section B below show the new set of vectors inserted in place >of the original Get Input Data routine and Get Output Data routine vectors. >These vectors are used by the third driver program WATCH.EXE to control the >movement of data between (a) the first driver program and third driver program >and (b) the second device driver program and the third driver program." TTDRIVER, IPL, and several other programs cooperated to set up a new set of vectors in place of the original get input data and put output data routine vectors. These vectors were when used by several other programs (system and user level) to control movement of data between (.......) >"Step 4. Communicating data between the first and third device driver..." > >"Section B and C below show that the new vectors call the original vectors. >The original vectors were used for passing data from the first driver program >to the second driver program and from the second driver program to the first >driver program. Since the new vectors are now called in place of the original >vectors, and the new vectors later called the original vectors, the third >driver program is now controlling the flow of data. The third driver program >not only controls the flow of data between the first and second driver >programs but can direct that flow of data to the auxiliary terminal on which >the WATCH program is executed." Uh huh. I like it. Only one problem -- I did it first. :-) >"The following sections contain and analysis of a system before, during and >after a terminal monitoring session with the watch program. The analysis >shows the original set of vecctors before using WATCH, the new set of vectors >that are used while WATCH is monitoring a terminal, and the fact that the >original set of vectors are replaced when the WATCH session is finished" As did my remote access and control system, ERACS. Each session established and then tore down the links as required. >Again, anyone having any information to help show that WATCH was written >before the data of the patent, or that DECUS has offered software in the past >that does the same thing, in the same way under a different operating system, >please send me a note with the supporting data. That ought to take the wind out of Clyde's sails.... note that this was done on a machine that was manufacturered by Tandy for "conventional" single user use. We did quite a few innovative things with that monster, and this was one of the larger ones. It worked (and still works) quite well, and in fact accomplished something that Tandy told me "can't be done". Source code to support this available on request. Affadavits and other legalistic things done if my costs are covered. No problem. May Clyde see the error of it's ways :-) -- Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, !ddsw1!karl) Public Access Data Line: [+1 312 566-8911], Voice: [+1 312 566-8910] Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. "Quality Solutions at a Fair Price"