<<< TEMBEL::OFFICE$DISK:[NOTES$LIBRARY]NOP.NOTE;1 >>> -< Nostalgic and Obsolete Products >- ================================================================================ Note 1.0 Welcome ... No replies BIGUN::KEOGH "I feel better than James Brown" 5 lines 6-AUG-1991 00:18 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to VAX NOTES This conference is for discussions relating to Nostalgic and Obsolete Products  ================================================================================ Note 2.0 NOP as swap-shop 15 replies TEMBEL::HAWLEYD13 "Tektronix EDP Manager" 15 lines 19-AUG-1991 17:51 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I know PDP's constitute the majority of the "old" DEC gear and thus are suitable subjects for NOP SIG, but it is fast getting to the stage where old VAX's are also becoming suitable for NOP's consideration. Therefore I have two questions: 1. When does DEC equipment qualify for NOP? Is there any critera? 2. Should NOP be in the business of "swap-shop" for DEC gear of no value? My feelings are, at this time, (1) when it has no resale value, and (2) why the heck not. Comment, s' il vous plait. ================================================================================ Note 2.1 NOP as swap-shop 1 of 15 TEMBEL::STEWARTA9 13 lines 20-AUG-1991 10:25 -< When the monetary value is low. >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rumours are that VAX-11/7xx systems will not run VMS V6. If true then this must place them in the NOP area. Perhaps there should be a monetary value or ratio that places a DEC part into NOP. ie less than $200 or 5% of last price when purchasable new. In other words, not really of interest to S/H dealers. I've got a contact at a place where two VAX-11/730s about to be decommisioned. I've talked to a person here who will probably give one a home. Remember the Golden Rule: Don't make waves (or money) and DEC should ignore the home VAX-11 user. Andy Stewart. ================================================================================ Note 2.2 NOP as swap-shop 2 of 15 VAXNET::HAWLEYD13 "Tektronix EDP Manager" 10 lines 20-AUG-1991 14:44 -< More than you may realise >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think you had better add the 11/750 to the list of no-value VAXen, because I can't give my old one away in a box of Cornflakes! I have been offered $250 for it including some terminal interfaces by a S/H dealer, and that was out of kindness! Could I suggest that we come up with a clear guide as to how we start shifting these things about, because I don't wish to breach DECUS commercialism guidelines by trying to sell publicly. Any further comments? ================================================================================ Note 2.3 NOP as swap-shop 3 of 15 TEMBEL::BRIMBLEG28 7 lines 20-AUG-1991 16:02 -< NOP criteria >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually PDPs ought not to be a NOP issue - there is a PDP SIG which should be handling them. However the PDP hackers seem to prefer to do their swap shop stuff thru NOP and the PDP SIG people haven't complained so I guess it is OK. I guess the key point in NOP is "obsolete" so old VAXen which are no longer sold or supported by DEC (uVAX 1?) would fit. ================================================================================ Note 2.4 NOP as swap-shop 4 of 15 TEMBEL::DUFFJ8 "DUFF@DECUS.COM.AU" 3 lines 20-AUG-1991 16:09 -< 11/785 too! >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Better include 11/785s! I can't break the $1,000 mark. Jim. ================================================================================ Note 2.5 NOP as swap-shop 5 of 15 TEMBEL::HAWLEYD13 "Tektronix EDP Manager" 15 lines 20-AUG-1991 18:33 -< Issue still burns >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks, Gordon. Can I throw this curly one at you, please. The terminal interfaces on my old 750 are eminently suitable for use in PDP systems, and are still reliably functional. To whom do I go - NOP or the PDP SIG? Both? Also, as I mentioned previously, the 750 is no longer made, it has zero resale value, but it is still supported by DEC (at a price). Does it qualify for NOP status? This has deeper ramifications than just the love of old DEC gear, since it could be a way for sites to pass on usable DEC gear to kind owners at minimal cost to both parties. Presumably brokers, etc. could participate too - they don't like having to hang on to unsaleable old stuff either. Is discussion needed at the NOP SIG AGM, perhaps? ================================================================================ Note 2.6 NOP as swap-shop 6 of 15 VAXNET::BURNETM26 4 lines 21-AUG-1991 13:33 -< 10 year vintage >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I generally use a 10 year window for the aquisition of items for the museum. ie I have just got back a 780, 750 and 730 which were all in the 78-81 period. ================================================================================ Note 2.7 NOP as swap-shop 7 of 15 TEMBEL::HAWLEYD13 "Tektronix EDP Manager" 7 lines 22-AUG-1991 08:59 -< Thanks >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OK, Max. That makes sense regarding the spirit of NOP SIG, too. I chatted to a few people on the Rotorua trip yesterday, and I think there is a germination of an idea that needs more discussion. I will bring it up about the traps and see how it goes. Thank you, one and all. ================================================================================ Note 2.8 NOP as swap-shop 8 of 15 TEMBEL::STEWARTA9 "Mad Hobbyist & DECaholic" 4 lines 22-AUG-1991 09:54 -< Diff between PDP-11 SIG & NOP SIG >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The difference between the PDP-11 SIG and the NOP SIG is simple. I suggest that the PDP-11 SIG concentrates on S/W, obsolete or otherwise. The NOP SIG is for Hardware. ================================================================================ Note 2.9 NOP as swap-shop 9 of 15 VAXNET::HAWLEYD13 "Tektronix EDP Manager" 3 lines 22-AUG-1991 15:31 -< Not quite true >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That doesn't allow for the now-out-dating VAX systems. Definitely NOT anything to do with PDP-11 SIG, eh, what? I think I like Max's definition better. ================================================================================ Note 2.10 NOP as swap-shop 10 of 15 VAXNET::STEWARTA9 "Mad Hobbyist & DECaholic" 17 lines 22-AUG-1991 16:07 -< Two sets with a union >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave, I believe you can happily run RT-11 on the VAX-11/78x console. :-) NOP >= 10 Years! What about my Microvax 1? Introduced in 1983 I believe. Not supported under VMS V5 (though I believe it will run). It was given to me. Would you buy it? It has to be classed as a NOP item. I still think we need to have some NON-COMMERCIAL type cut-off point. Andy. PS. My difference between PDP-11 and NOP SIG was not absolute. It was more the defining of two sets but I forgot to mentions the union thereof. One of the good points about DECUS is that we do speak the same language (NO, not DCL :-) and there is much information flow between the SIGS. Long may DECUS members interact! ================================================================================ Note 2.11 NOP as swap-shop 11 of 15 TEMBEL::HAWLEYD13 "Tektronix EDP Manager" 24 lines 23-AUG-1991 10:12 -< How's this for an idea >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quite right, Andy. We now have a situation where we have two classes of "old" gear. First is the dearly beloved chronologically old equipment that we cut our teeth on, and at this time it is the PDP class of machine. Second is the now no-value equipment that is no longer commercially viable but still has some use somewhere. This now includes most of the VAX 11/7xx machines, and many of the PDP-11 series more than about 6 years old. This stuff (like my late 1984 11/750) may not be "aged", but you can't sell it! As we discussed on Wednesday, I would like to see an organised "list" of equipment and contacts, separate perhaps from Max Burnett's museum piece stuff, for the second class of equipment. I wonder if it would be of use both inside and outside of DECUS to have this "zero-value" list. While there would be no central repository of hardware, the idea would be to put people with requirements in touch with people with the bits. I could conceive of site managers consulting this list for spare parts, emergency spares, etc. Max's museum could get bits out of it too. Would anyone care to comment on this? I would be prepared to be the first "manager" of this list if it was deemed viable. ================================================================================ Note 2.12 NOP as swap-shop 12 of 15 VAXNET::STEWARTA9 "Mad Hobbyist & DECaholic" 35 lines 23-AUG-1991 10:37 -< The Melbourne Disp[osal Centre has opened. :-) >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave, A very good idea. I was talking to someone here, basically a rep for a Sydney second hand dealer who mentioned that they send stuff off to the crusher but they may be persuaded to donate it to a worthy cause. I suggest that there needs to be a contact point in each state. The Sydney person would be the most active as that is where most of the stuff "emerges" out of the system. Big John Geremin would be perfect but he does deal in the stuff. Someone not actively trading would be better. We must appear to be unsullied by filthy Lucre. I am willing to be the Melbourne contact. Storage will be my big problem, and it probably will be everyone else's problem. I have 8 x Pro 350 and 3 x Pro 380 "in stack". Two of the Pro 380s will go to a dealer friend. That money will go back to the guy who rescued them before they went to the tip. I am buying RAINBOWs as a source of VR201 Monitors, LK201 KBs & RX50s. Offer me $50 and you'll get a Pro 350, a R100A plus a monitor and a KB. I've got details on how to convert the Pro 350 128 KB daughter memory boards to 512 KB. I'd nearly forgotten about the dead PDP-11/34 CPU with the mostly dead 4 x RK06 drives and packs. I could not store it so it has probably gone to the tip. There are 8 x 11/34s and 8 x 11/23s about to become available in Melbourne. I'm not sure if they are going to be free or we put a small charge on them to raise funds for the PDP-11 SIG. I have a list of people who are willing to take them. Contact me after the Symposium and you can go on the list as well. Andy. ================================================================================ Note 2.13 NOP as swap-shop 13 of 15 VAXNET::KANOWSKIT28 7 lines 23-AUG-1991 11:06 -< Some more uses >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some of the T.A.F.E.s in Qld are looking for old 750s etc for use by their engineering classes for training purposes. Uses include disassembly, reassembly, configuration & setup, spares, etc I am sure they would appreciate anything thrown their way. I don't have a contact name with me, but I know for sure that Kangaroo Pt. T.A.F.E. are trying to put together 3 or 4 clusters of 3 or more CPUs. ================================================================================ Note 2.14 NOP as swap-shop 14 of 15 VAXNET::HAWLEYD13 "Tektronix EDP Manager" 4 lines 23-AUG-1991 13:29 -< Great! >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OUR FIRST CUSTOMERS! See you at the NOP SIG, but please remember that freight/shipping is up to the two parties to arrange, not the ZERO-VALUE list management. ================================================================================ Note 2.15 NOP as swap-shop 15 of 15 TEMBEL::HAWLEYD13 "Tektronix EDP Manager" 16 lines 23-AUG-1991 14:04 -< The journey begins ... >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am just back from the NOP SIG, and the idea of a ZERO-VALUE list was received quite well. I will be circulating more detailed ideas (when I think of them) in a short while. Would all those interested in this idea, or in participating in the list, please contact me: Dave Hawley Tektronix Australia 80 Waterloo Rd North Ryde NSW Australia Ph (02) 888-7066 Fax (02) 888-0125 See you back in OZ!  ================================================================================ Note 3.0 RA81s for sale 1 reply TEMBEL::BROWNM22 5 lines 20-AUG-1991 15:18 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For Sale, 2xRA81 in cabinet, any offers ? Leave a note for M. Brown on noticeboard, or write to : System Manager, CCB, Lincoln University, PO Box 84, Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand ================================================================================ Note 3.1 RA81s for sale 1 of 1 TEMBEL::HAWLEYD13 "Tektronix EDP Manager" 7 lines 22-AUG-1991 09:01 -< More RA81's >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have three RA81's in a 3-high cabinet, with a UDA50 thrown in if you require. Definitely for sale, although I have had a good offer from a broker. Contact Dave Hawley Tektronix Australia Phone OZ (02) 888-7066  ================================================================================ Note 4.0 Rainbows - don't laugh 1 reply VAXNET::SMITHB10 17 lines 22-AUG-1991 11:43 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have recently become the proud owner of a fully-functional Rainbow 100+ (I couldn't resist it.....) I'd really like to give it to my kids to keep them off my other PC but don't have any useful games etc. software to put on it. I'm looking for two things : - a no longer needed copy of M-BASIC - games suitable for young kids (or older ones,I suppose) I can buy some games through the DECUS library but they'll cost more than the Rainbow did and they wouldn't be of any use without M-BASIC anyway. Any suggestions ,please ??? ================================================================================ Note 4.1 Rainbows - don't laugh 1 of 1 VAXNET::STEWARTA9 "Mad Hobbyist & DECaholic" 8 lines 22-AUG-1991 12:32 -< Rainbows - Not laughing, just sympathy. >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Contact me after the Symposium. I've some PD graphics games, both CP/M and Mess-Dross, and AME-86 which will run CP/M-86 programs under MS-DOS. Email : STEWART_ANDY@DECUS.COM.AU Phone : 61 3 808 9584 (AH in Melbourne) Post : 14 Kelso St, Richmond VIC 3121, Australia.  ================================================================================ Note 5.0 PDP 11/34 bits 1 reply TEMBEL::MCGILLC8 18 lines 22-AUG-1991 16:01 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have recently become the proud owner of a PDP 11-34. I have no peripheral devices, no software, no manual, etc. Can anyone help with - disk drives, terminals, printers, etc. - operating systems, software products, etc. - manuals (hardware, owner's, programming) etc. Craig McGill MCGILL@DECUS.COM.AU (06) 268-5967 (bh) PO Box 1199 Woden ACT 2606 Australia ================================================================================ Note 5.1 PDP 11/34 bits 1 of 1 TEMBEL::HAWLEYD13 "Tektronix EDP Manager" 17 lines 23-AUG-1991 09:51 -< Yes, Unibus bits >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have the following that MAY be useful for you, but it depends on how big a system you want physically. 1. 3 x RK07 disk drives with RK611 controller and six disk packs 2. BA11 expansion cabinet (for the above) 3. DMF-32, VMZ-32, DHU-11, DUP-11, TS11 tape controller These are all Unibus gadgets, and the drives have come off a working 11/34 system a few years ago. ALL THESE BITS WORK! Now for the good bit ... they are also FREE, but you have to bring your own wheelbarrow to take them away, and they are "as-is" - no warranty. Contact me Dave Hawley Tektronix Australia Phone OZ (02) 888-7066 FAX OZ (02) 888-0125