<<< TEMBEL::OFFICE$DISK:[NOTES$LIBRARY]LMF.NOTE;1 >>> -< The License Management FacilityWelcome >- ================================================================================ Note 1.0 Welcome No replies VAXNET::KEOGH "I feel better than James Brown" 5 lines 20-AUG-1991 11:22 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This conference is for discussion of the License Management Facility, and software licensing business practice. Put your questions, requests, war stories and opinions in here. Digital is listening!  ================================================================================ Note 2.0 SUPFINDER 4 replies TEMBEL::LANCASTERR1 "Robert (excuse the typing) Lancaster" 12 lines 20-AUG-1991 12:34 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- How many people out there are still waiting for the results of SUPFINDER. Considering the threat with it was software would not be guaranteed to work shipped after June 30. So far ours has gone to Sydney, but they got decentralized. So back to Adelaide. Adelaide could not guarantee a completion date so Sydney took it back. I am now waiting to be asked for a new copy because they have lost the paperwork ;-) ================================================================================ Note 2.1 SUPFINDER 1 of 4 TEMBEL::NOSWORTHYD22 13 lines 20-AUG-1991 16:10 -< Suppfinder Response >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We took the attitude that we would not run the SUPPFINDER until DEC sorted out our licensing problems to OUR satisfaction. We still haven't run the software and we are only prepared to return the output in paper form. There is no way we will be sending anything back on magnetic media unless we know exactly what information is written on the media. DEC did make some 'threats' but nothing seems to have come of them at this time. Denis Nosworthy, SWSAHS. ================================================================================ Note 2.2 SUPFINDER 2 of 4 TEMBEL::LINTONP12 7 lines 20-AUG-1991 16:15 -< We got ours but... >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the results of our SUPFINDER report. It did provide some PAKS that we needed but also DEC claimed "we have no record of your purchase of RALLY RT". That's OK because we didn't purchase it separately. We bought TEAMDATA a long time ago when it included RALLY runtime support. RALLY RT was subsequently split from TEAMDATA and customers with TEAMDATA licenses were provided with RALLY RT licenses. The discussions are continuing with no result yet. ================================================================================ Note 2.3 SUPFINDER 3 of 4 VAXNET::MCNICOLP12 18 lines 20-AUG-1991 18:28 -< We have survived, but at what cost. >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Our local DEC office came on-site after we had run SUPFINDER and worked through the disaster that is represented by our records and their records. We sorted out a few things at that time, eg we told them that we actually "had" a licence for full function DECnet for one of our VAXen (configured as an end-node at the time) despite the fact that SUPFINDER indicated that we only had an end-node licence. They took our word for it, and away they went. Last week we received a bundle of re-issued licences (certificates?) but the I have a concern that they decided to key them to our individual CPU serial numbers. I am prepared to put up with LMF, despite my terror at my lack of understanding of it, but I will be less than happy if they start changing the few useful policies, especially with regard to me being entitled to decide on which box I will install a given product. Phil McNicol ================================================================================ Note 2.4 SUPFINDER 4 of 4 TEMBEL::MCINTOSHR2 12 lines 23-AUG-1991 11:57 -< There are alternatives to LMF >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We have a very large network of VAXs (85) and decided that SUPPFINDER and even LMF was not an efficient way to manage licences. We suggested to Digital that we would create one central database containing all our licences and nodes the licences are allocated to. In the LMF of every VAX we would put "generic" licences of 9000 units to prevent operational problems. All licencing compliance issues would be resolved through reference to the central database. Digital has agreed and we are about to implement.  ================================================================================ Note 3.0 License Loading/Unloading 1 reply VAXNET::BROOKSA2 28 lines 22-AUG-1991 11:46 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cluster Licensing Comments 1. Automatic loading and unloading of license units. Currently the license units for a particular product are loaded in the first machine that boots provided the license database has been set to allow the machine to load the units. It would be useful if there was an option to allow license units to be checked and loaded at run time for the application. This would allow a product to be run on any machine in the cluster that you had sufficient units for but not simultaneously without having to buy license units for every machine in the cluster. Once the application is exited the license units should then be available to other machines in the cluster. This can sort of be achieved now by unloading the license and loading it on the machine you want to run the product on, but non privileged users can't perform this operation and it requires some effort in loacting were the license is unloading it and loading it all of which a user doesn't want to know about. This type of license is also useful if you have a machine as a backup but dont normally run the software on it. If your main machine fails all you need to do is start the layered products and applications on the backup machine without worrying about loading up the licenses. It should be setup so that no intervention is required by the system manager. intervention. ================================================================================ Note 3.1 License Loading/Unloading 1 of 1 VAXNET::GORHAMM24 12 lines 23-AUG-1991 07:37 -< LMF/Floating Cluster Units - Digital Central Engineering >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Slightly out of my element on this one, but it is the clear VISION of LMF to allow license units to float around nodes in a cluster. A machine would attempt to use a license, the lmf would be checked to see if sufficient license units were in the database for the requesting machine, and the license units would be released. I actually thought this was how it works - will check with the right folks when I get back and will pass a message on through your Digital contacts. In any case, look for this functionality to be present in future LMF releases.  ================================================================================ Note 4.0 Software Licensing Costs 2 replies VAXNET::BROOKSA2 29 lines 22-AUG-1991 12:09 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Software License Pricing 1. The pricing of certain product licenses based on the cpu capacity of the machine makes some upgrade options prohibitive. For example our company is currently evaluating upgrading our 6310 either to a 6410 or a 4300. The license units for a 6410 are 600 whereas the 4300 is 300. Hence to change to a 4300 we require no additonal license units or costs and the 4300 has more cpu capacity. Given that the number of users is not increasing that rapidly a license that was based on number of units would be more appropriate or alternatively some better standardising of the licensing when new products are added. Why in our scenario would we want to upgrade to a 6410 ?. The other factor is that the 4300 requires no special computer room environment but the 6410 does. The licensing of software needs to be more flexible so that customers aren't driven towards solutions that are inadequate. 2. The cost of licenses seems from a customers point of view to have no basis. If a cutomer buys the product and a license and puts the product under maintenance then what is the cost to DEC if the customer then wants to upgrade and run that software on a faster machine. The only cost to DEC that the customer sees is the cost of producing a license PAK with increased units on it. The licensing policy needs some justification in terms of real costs at the moment it apperas to be just a license to print money which in my opinion is unacceptable. The customer should be paying for CPU speed when he buys the hardware not when he buys the software. Currently it appears to be when you buy both. ================================================================================ Note 4.1 Software Licensing Costs 1 of 2 TEMBEL::MCGILLC8 1 line 22-AUG-1991 15:57 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would be very interested in an official reply to .0 ================================================================================ Note 4.2 Software Licensing Costs 2 of 2 VAXNET::GORHAMM24 22 lines 23-AUG-1991 07:44 -< Software License Pricing - Digital Central Engineering >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Two parts to the answer 1) Capacity based licenses. This is the number one customer request, common across all geographies, all customer sizes, businesses, etc. Digital has heard your requests and will respond soon, before the end of 1991, with a licenses types that address usage other than capacity. Digital will deliver this with the LMF tools to make system management of the new license types manageable - better than today. 2) Price of SW increasing with increased system size. I am from VMS. We engineer many features into our product that allow better system management, faster batch systems, etc that benefit and are developed for large scale machines. At the same time we want to offer competitive pricing on all machines, which on the low end typically means pretty low. It would be unfair and uncompetitive for us to charge for the large machine-type functionality on the small machines - you wouldn't be able to use it on a small machine and wouldn't want to pay for it. VMS also wants to maintain a common operating system across all VAXes for obvious customer benefits. Therefore the scaling of price based on machine size.  ================================================================================ Note 5.0 User-based licensing 4 replies VAXNET::PHILLIPD8 29 lines 22-AUG-1991 19:20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We have a large production machine. However for some software we only have a few users who need to use it. The prime example is DTR, where a 5-10 user licence would do fine. However just because we have a big CPU we have to pay heaps for it when its not used much. Obviously this applies to every second piece of layered software that DEC releases, it would be nice to have but we can't justify the cost based on the small number of users for each product. Clearly this issue has been around for a while now. My request is that every layered product have a user-based licence option and that these are available ASAP. At present DEC gets $0 income from me for these products and I get 0 benefit. The quicker these options become available the quicker DEC can sell me software ($$$ for the sales staff!) and the quicker I can get benefits from using it. Phil Davis PS - After I have had an evaluation licence for a product on my system I would like to be able to scrub the record of it from LMF altogether once I either buy or not buy the software, just to remove the junk from the database. At the moment the only way I can see to do this is to delete the whole database, create a new one and re-enter my real licences - not worth the pain and suffering. Is there or will there be a better way? ================================================================================ Note 5.1 User-based licensing 1 of 4 VAXNET::GORHAMM24 2 lines 23-AUG-1991 07:46 -< License type - 2nd reply - Digital Central Engineering >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- stay tuned, see note 3. Before the end of the year (well before) Digital will respond. ================================================================================ Note 5.2 User-based licensing 2 of 4 VAXNET::KANOWSKIT28 2 lines 23-AUG-1991 08:51 -< Besides... >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Besides that, putting on all these extra goodies will quickly fill up all your disks and you will need to buy more disk space . . . etc. ================================================================================ Note 5.3 User-based licensing 3 of 4 TEMBEL::MCINTOSHR2 16 lines 23-AUG-1991 12:04 -< A easy wasy to clean up the LMF >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: .0 "PS - After I have had an evaluation licence for a product on my system I would like to be able to scrub the record of it from LMF altogether once I either buy or not buy the software, just to remove the junk from the database. At the moment the only way I can see to do this is to delete the whole database, create a new one and re-enter my real licences - not worth the pain and suffering. Is there or will there be a better way?" Since the LMF is just an RMS indexed sequential file (at the moment), a simple way is to do an ANALYSE/RMS/FDL, dive in with an editor and clean up the database, and then do a CONVERT/FDL to put it back intoi indexed sequential format. ================================================================================ Note 5.4 User-based licensing 4 of 4 VAXNET::GORHAMM24 9 lines 23-AUG-1991 12:28 -< LMF - Digital Central Engineering >- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, there will be a better way. Again, not my forte but know the next LMFs will make this process easier. Vision is to possibly allow use of any SW product (via CD, for example) like a browsing or 'free trial' session, then convert to a real license upon purchase. Digital WILL improve LMF, please give us your feedback on changes coming soon, there will be more.....