INFO-VAX Fri, 21 Nov 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 631 Contents: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Re: How do I find out if my dedicated server is a VM Re: Installing memory Re: Installing memory Re: Installing memory KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Re: test - please ignore ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:37:08 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: <00A82F2C.0A3F6EC4@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > >>In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: >>> >>>The $100 starting price units they've been selling the last several days >>>do include the DVD drive. The $250 units don't, but include the >>>management processor card. >>> >>>I wonder where they all came from. > >>HP > >Ha. ha. ha. > > >I asked because this guy has sold dozens, maybe 100 so far, and more keep >coming. The eBay auctions say "Asset Recovery Corp" and it's in the Minnesota area. Maybe they're selling off computer assets from the failing US auto makers? If they came from Ford, they probably ran Weendoze because Ford too crawled into bed the Billzebub. Even their cars are now chock full of Micro$hit's products which is why I, as a long time Ford product enthusiast, will *NOT* buy another. Maybe the M$ alliance is what's destroying Ford? Think about that Mulally! Go beg for money from Billzebub instead of the tax payer. ;) -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Nov 2008 13:14:49 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: <6onqi9F4jh9vU1@mid.individual.net> In article <00A82F2C.0A3F6EC4@sendspamhere.org>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: >>VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> >>>In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: >>>> >>>>The $100 starting price units they've been selling the last several days >>>>do include the DVD drive. The $250 units don't, but include the >>>>management processor card. >>>> >>>>I wonder where they all came from. >> >>>HP >> >>Ha. ha. ha. >> >> >>I asked because this guy has sold dozens, maybe 100 so far, and more keep >>coming. > > The eBay auctions say "Asset Recovery Corp" and it's in the Minnesota area. > > Maybe they're selling off computer assets from the failing US auto makers? > If they came from Ford, they probably ran Weendoze because Ford too crawled > into bed the Billzebub. Even their cars are now chock full of Micro$hit's > products which is why I, as a long time Ford product enthusiast, will *NOT* > buy another. Maybe the M$ alliance is what's destroying Ford? That is totally absurd. First, the majority of car owners don't know anything about what is actually inside a car today. And second and most important most people today, who do know anything about computers, would look on Microsoft integration as a major plus, not a minus. > Think about > that Mulally! Go beg for money from Billzebub instead of the tax payer. ;) I thought Bill bowed out of running MS several years ago in order to find other ways to waste all the money he acquired by questionable means in a major attempt to buy back his soul. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:12:35 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: <00A82F41.C1AEB2C4@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <6onqi9F4jh9vU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >In article <00A82F2C.0A3F6EC4@sendspamhere.org>, > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: >>>VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >>> >>>>In article , moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) writes: >>>>> >>>>>The $100 starting price units they've been selling the last several days >>>>>do include the DVD drive. The $250 units don't, but include the >>>>>management processor card. >>>>> >>>>>I wonder where they all came from. >>> >>>>HP >>> >>>Ha. ha. ha. >>> >>> >>>I asked because this guy has sold dozens, maybe 100 so far, and more keep >>>coming. >> >> The eBay auctions say "Asset Recovery Corp" and it's in the Minnesota area. >> >> Maybe they're selling off computer assets from the failing US auto makers? >> If they came from Ford, they probably ran Weendoze because Ford too crawled >> into bed the Billzebub. Even their cars are now chock full of Micro$hit's >> products which is why I, as a long time Ford product enthusiast, will *NOT* >> buy another. Maybe the M$ alliance is what's destroying Ford? > >That is totally absurd. First, the majority of car owners don't know >anything about what is actually inside a car today. And second and >most important most people today, who do know anything about computers, >would look on Microsoft integration as a major plus, not a minus. They do when the voice integration system is touted as being M$ in every pointless commercial. That fact notwithstanding, Bill, you seem to have a real nack for missing pertinent rhetorical hyperbolic humor. >> Think about >> that Mulally! Go beg for money from Billzebub instead of the tax payer. ;) > >I thought Bill bowed out of running MS several years ago in order to >find other ways to waste all the money he acquired by questionable means >in a major attempt to buy back his soul. Ah, like a made-for-television tale of Dr. Faust and Mephisopheles. Poor old Dr. Faust didn't fair all too well, what makes Billzebub think he can do better other than that he's already seated at his right hand? ;) -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:54:02 -0500 From: Paul Anderson Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: In article <6onqi9F4jh9vU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > And second and most important most people today, who do know anything > about computers, would look on Microsoft integration as a major plus, > not a minus. I certainly wouldn't buy a car that had any Microsoft content. And I suspect someone who's just had a frustrating experience with their Windows system wouldn't want the experience in their car when they're driving down the road at 65 MPH. Paul -- Paul Anderson OpenVMS Engineering Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:21:21 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: Paul Anderson wrote: > In article <6onqi9F4jh9vU1@mid.individual.net>, > billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > >> And second and most important most people today, who do know anything >> about computers, would look on Microsoft integration as a major plus, >> not a minus. > > I certainly wouldn't buy a car that had any Microsoft content. > > And I suspect someone who's just had a frustrating experience with their > Windows system wouldn't want the experience in their car when they're > driving down the road at 65 MPH. > > Paul > If you ever wondered why the ATM was down, it might have something to do with the fact that many, or most, are Windows based! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 07:54:43 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: On Nov 21, 9:21=A0am, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > Paul Anderson wrote: > > In article <6onqi9F4jh9...@mid.individual.net>, > > =A0billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > > >> And second and most important most people today, who do know anything > >> about computers, would look on Microsoft integration as a major plus, > >> not a minus. > > > I certainly wouldn't buy a car that had any Microsoft content. > > > And I suspect someone who's just had a frustrating experience with thei= r > > Windows system wouldn't want the experience in their car when they're > > driving down the road at 65 MPH. > > > Paul > > If you ever wondered why the ATM was down, it might have something to do > with the fact that many, or most, are Windows based! The older text based ones were not... even some of the less recent graphicals were not. But I have seen the blue screen of death on a couple of ATMs. I won't ever see it in a car I own for much the same reason as Paul and Brian. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:08:32 +0000 (UTC) From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: JF Mezei writes: >When Sanger completed the genome project, they had a few hundred DS10Ls >that were no longer needed. Guess where they went ? >It is posisble that those IA64 boxes were used in some similar >supercomputing setup which has been replaced, and a couple hundred of >those boxes being dumped on ebay. I pretty much figured they had to be in some sort of number-crunching cluster or supercomputer, esp. since they're all configured the same way (well, one of 2 configurations). I have since learned they did come from some sort of "supercomputer" but nothing more specific than that. I doubt an auto company like Ford would really need something like that, it would more likely be something like genome sequencing or weather forecasting or animation for a movie or something like that. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Nov 2008 17:20:43 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone want a ride on the SS Itanic? Message-ID: <6oo8vaF4jdtlU1@mid.individual.net> In article , Paul Anderson writes: > In article <6onqi9F4jh9vU1@mid.individual.net>, > billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > >> And second and most important most people today, who do know anything >> about computers, would look on Microsoft integration as a major plus, >> not a minus. > > I certainly wouldn't buy a car that had any Microsoft content. So, have you started stocking up on oats? I expect that before too long you will not have a choice. Personally, I find OnStar much more disturbing. > > And I suspect someone who's just had a frustrating experience with their > Windows system wouldn't want the experience in their car when they're > driving down the road at 65 MPH. Sounds pretty funny coming from someone who works for the #1 Windows PC company in the country (world?). bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 21 Nov 2008 13:16:40 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: How do I find out if my dedicated server is a VM Message-ID: <6onqloF4jh9vU2@mid.individual.net> In article , Bob Gezelter writes: > On Nov 20, 11:48 am, petethebloke wrote: >> On 20 Nov, 16:32, petethebloke wrote: >> >> > If I had a dedicated server, how would I be able to satisfy myself >> > that >> > it is not a VM on a box running 5 other "dedicated servers"? Let's >> > just assume - for this hypothesis - that it was a Win 2003 install >> > and my access was by Terminal services; but equally, I'd like to know >> > how to find out in the case of a Red Hat install. >> >> > Thanks, >> >> > Pete >> >> Oops. I think this is off-topic - you folks are into VMS not VMs >> aren't you? >> >> Sorry. > Pete, > Actually, it is even more complex. > Suppose your "dedicated" server (with two processors) is running as a > guest along with five other two-processor guest instances on a 32- > processor VM host. > Is that a problem? There would only be 12 processors being used out of > the 32 in the system. > There are a wide variety of shades of gray here, and the answers are > far more complex than simply "am I running as a VM guest". This is the new Turing test! Of course, if you can tell, then the VM is not set up properly. :-) "Is it real or is it Memorex?" bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:22:00 +0000 From: "R.A.Omond" Subject: Re: Installing memory Message-ID: <49266fab$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > [...snip...] > > AUTOGEN, out of the box, does not, IMHO, do a good job of tuning a system. > It's sometimes fair but it is far from ideal. Absolutely agree. It never fails to amaze me to see (relatively) experienced system managers rely entirely on what Autogen says. Coupled with those stupid system monitors that flag up *Warnings* whenever memory usage (however they measure that) goes above a certain arbitrary threshold (heck, I'd say they should flash *Warnings - you've paid lots of money for memory that you don't need* if the usage drops *below* a threshold). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:51:03 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Installing memory Message-ID: <00A82F2D.FC128E11@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <49266fab$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, "R.A.Omond" writes: >VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> [...snip...] >> >> AUTOGEN, out of the box, does not, IMHO, do a good job of tuning a system. >> It's sometimes fair but it is far from ideal. > >Absolutely agree. It never fails to amaze me to see (relatively) >experienced system managers rely entirely on what Autogen says. > >Coupled with those stupid system monitors that flag up *Warnings* >whenever memory usage (however they measure that) goes above a certain >arbitrary threshold (heck, I'd say they should flash *Warnings - you've >paid lots of money for memory that you don't need* if the usage drops >*below* a threshold). ROTFLMFAO! Reminds me of an anecdote about a guy who called me and asked me to look in on his system to tune it because he saw 100% on CPU utiliz- ation. I did. I tweaked a number of things but they were still running at 100%. Afterward, he told me the users said that the system seems to be more responsive and faster, but he was still concerned about the 100% he saw on the CPU monitor. I tried to explain it to him. About 6 to 9 months later, I received a call from the same guy. He said he wanted me to look at tuning his system again. I said that I'd thought that I had tweaked out all that could be last time. He said, "Yeah, that was on the old system but since it was always running at 100%, we purchased a newer, faster system." So, I asked what he wanted me to do? He said, "tune it so it's not at 100%." :rolleyes: -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:47:38 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Installing memory Message-ID: R.A.Omond wrote: > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> [...snip...] >> >> AUTOGEN, out of the box, does not, IMHO, do a good job of tuning a >> system. >> It's sometimes fair but it is far from ideal. > > Absolutely agree. It never fails to amaze me to see (relatively) > experienced system managers rely entirely on what Autogen says. > > Coupled with those stupid system monitors that flag up *Warnings* > whenever memory usage (however they measure that) goes above a certain > arbitrary threshold (heck, I'd say they should flash *Warnings - you've > paid lots of money for memory that you don't need* if the usage drops > *below* a threshold). AUTOGEN will put you somewhere in the "ballpark". Mindlessly using AUTOGEN to tune a system is not usually effective. I use a fairly large MODPARAMS.DAT and also "tune" user account settings. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 06:01:15 -0800 (PST) From: urbancamo Subject: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Message-ID: Hi, I'm having a little trouble with a newly installed KZPBA-CB SCSI card in a DS10L. I have the feeling that this is a newbie question but so far have not been able to find an answer. When the SCSI card is connected to the Seagate drive (ST-118273W Ultra SCSI Wide (Barracuda 18)) it does not recognise it within the SHOW CONFIG of the DS10L SRM. Is there anything else I need to do? The drive is connected to the internal 68-pin connector via a ribbon cable. The terminating resistors are inserted in the card. The hard drive has termination enabled. Unfortunately I don't have a floppy drive so I can't run the SCSI card configuration utility. As far as I'm aware I've patched the DS10L firmware to the latest available revisions. Thanks for the help, Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:20:42 -0500 From: "David Turner, islandco.com" Subject: Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Message-ID: YOU are going to damage the disk You either need a differential (High Voltage) hard drive or replace the KZPBA-CB with the KZPBA-CA The KZPBA-CB is High Voltage Differential ad will not work with that disk Honest ! -- David B Turner ============================================= Island Computers US Corp PO Box 86 Tybee GA 31328 Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 Email: dturner@islandco.com International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 Fax: 912 786 8505 Web: www.islandco.com ============================================= "urbancamo" wrote in message news:a45435f4-f147-44bd-99eb-3977226a64b0@k19g2000yqg.googlegroups.com... > Hi, I'm having a little trouble with a newly installed KZPBA-CB SCSI > card in a DS10L. I have the feeling that this is a newbie question but > so far have not been able to find an answer. > > When the SCSI card is connected to the Seagate drive (ST-118273W Ultra > SCSI Wide (Barracuda 18)) it does not recognise it within the SHOW > CONFIG of the DS10L SRM. Is there anything else I need to do? The > drive is connected to the internal 68-pin connector via a ribbon > cable. The terminating resistors are inserted in the card. The hard > drive has termination enabled. > > Unfortunately I don't have a floppy drive so I can't run the SCSI card > configuration utility. As far as I'm aware I've patched the DS10L > firmware to the latest available revisions. > > Thanks for the help, Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 06:32:27 -0800 (PST) From: urbancamo Subject: Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Message-ID: On Nov 21, 2:20 pm, "David Turner, islandco.com" wrote: > YOU are going to damage the disk > You either need a differential (High Voltage) hard drive or replace the > KZPBA-CB with the KZPBA-CA > The KZPBA-CB is High Voltage Differential ad will not work with that disk > Honest ! Thanks for the reply David. I take it that the blurb in the manual about the controller support all SCSI protocols (backwards-compatible) does not apply to all the connections, for example, if I connected a drive to the 50 PIN SE connector on the card would that work? What drives out there would be supported by this card (thinking 3.5" 1" high internal SCSI drives) Thanks again, Mark. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Nov 2008 14:39:15 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Message-ID: <6onvgjF4he53U1@mid.individual.net> In article , urbancamo writes: > On Nov 21, 2:20 pm, "David Turner, islandco.com" > wrote: >> YOU are going to damage the disk >> You either need a differential (High Voltage) hard drive or replace the >> KZPBA-CB with the KZPBA-CA >> The KZPBA-CB is High Voltage Differential ad will not work with that disk >> Honest ! > > Thanks for the reply David. I take it that the blurb in the manual > about the controller support all SCSI protocols (backwards-compatible) > does not apply to all the connections, for example, if I connected a > drive to the 50 PIN SE connector on the card would that work? What > drives out there would be supported by this card (thinking 3.5" 1" > high internal SCSI drives) > It is really a nightmare sometimes. I have an HVD QBUS card that has a standard 50 pin connector and an HVD disk that matches it. Without knowing what they are, they are indistinguishable from standard SE SCSI disks. I do not know for sure what would happen if you connected the wrong drive/controller together, but I expect it would not be a pretty sight. Other than the one HVD SCSI disk that I got with the controller, I have never seen another HVD SCSI disk. I owuld imagine they are rare enough that if I did, I could never afford to buy them. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:41:56 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Message-ID: urbancamo wrote: > On Nov 21, 2:20 pm, "David Turner, islandco.com" > wrote: >> YOU are going to damage the disk >> You either need a differential (High Voltage) hard drive or replace the >> KZPBA-CB with the KZPBA-CA >> The KZPBA-CB is High Voltage Differential ad will not work with that disk >> Honest ! > > Thanks for the reply David. I take it that the blurb in the manual > about the controller support all SCSI protocols (backwards-compatible) > does not apply to all the connections, for example, if I connected a > drive to the 50 PIN SE connector on the card would that work? What > drives out there would be supported by this card (thinking 3.5" 1" > high internal SCSI drives) > > Thanks again, > > Mark. Diff controllers are usualy used to connect to other *controllers* (like the HSZ-series of SCSI controllers). There might be disks with diff-interfaces, but I have never seen or used any. Note that there are converters to convert between diff and "normal" SCSI. Do not remember the names... Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 06:56:48 -0800 (PST) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Message-ID: <46d3f744-1a8b-44f5-8920-2395a861eed5@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> On Nov 21, 9:01=A0am, urbancamo wrote: > Hi, I'm having a little trouble with a newly installed KZPBA-CB SCSI > card in a DS10L. I have the feeling that this is a newbie question but > so far have not been able to find an answer. I bought this: http://www.computercablesource.com/detail.aspx?ID=3D850 http://www.computercablesource.com/internal-scsi-adapters-sca-80-140.html Works fine to get an ex-brick 18GB (RZ1ED)? to work inside my DS10 connected with a white ribbon to an KZPBA. I have an active terminator at the next and last stop on that ribbon. Ordering, Shipment and Payment seemed to have gone just fine. (big empty box, lots of peanuts. Would have preferred a padded enveloppe myself) fwiw, Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:03:47 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Message-ID: David Turner, islandco.com wrote: > YOU are going to damage the disk > You either need a differential (High Voltage) hard drive or replace the > KZPBA-CB with the KZPBA-CA > The KZPBA-CB is High Voltage Differential ad will not work with that disk > Honest ! > > I think it's even worse than that! HVD cannot be mixed with LVD or single ended without smoke and flames! Maybe not literally, but something is very likely to need repair following such an attempt. Found this out the hard way many years ago. Somebody ordered tape drives for six or eight VAXen; some differential and some single ended. He knew what he was doing. The person who installed the drives didn't realize that there were two different kinds of drives and two different controllers. He just went around plugging things in. Ouch! OTOH, it was not terribly bright to use the same connectors for SE/LVD SCSI and HVD SCSI. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:13:21 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Message-ID: <9Z6dnYUdsdAnUrvUnZ2dnUVZ_rrinZ2d@giganews.com> urbancamo wrote: > On Nov 21, 2:20 pm, "David Turner, islandco.com" > wrote: >> YOU are going to damage the disk >> You either need a differential (High Voltage) hard drive or replace the >> KZPBA-CB with the KZPBA-CA >> The KZPBA-CB is High Voltage Differential ad will not work with that disk >> Honest ! > > Thanks for the reply David. I take it that the blurb in the manual > about the controller support all SCSI protocols (backwards-compatible) > does not apply to all the connections, for example, if I connected a > drive to the 50 PIN SE connector on the card would that work? What > drives out there would be supported by this card (thinking 3.5" 1" > high internal SCSI drives) > > Thanks again, > > Mark. It's NOT just the number of pins! In addition to the number of pins, there are three different ELECTRICAL protocols: Single Ended (SE), Low Voltage Differential (LVD) and High Voltage Differential (HVD). 50 pins can be SE, LVD, or HVD. God help you if you connect SE or LVD to HVD!!! Sixty-eight pins can also be either SE, LVD, or HVD. LVD and HVD both allow you to use longer cables than SE. LVD and HVD are NOT compatible with each other. SE and HVD are NOT compatible with each other. Get it right or be prepared for large repair bills! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:17:44 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Message-ID: Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article , > urbancamo writes: >> On Nov 21, 2:20 pm, "David Turner, islandco.com" >> wrote: >>> YOU are going to damage the disk >>> You either need a differential (High Voltage) hard drive or replace the >>> KZPBA-CB with the KZPBA-CA >>> The KZPBA-CB is High Voltage Differential ad will not work with that disk >>> Honest ! >> Thanks for the reply David. I take it that the blurb in the manual >> about the controller support all SCSI protocols (backwards-compatible) >> does not apply to all the connections, for example, if I connected a >> drive to the 50 PIN SE connector on the card would that work? What >> drives out there would be supported by this card (thinking 3.5" 1" >> high internal SCSI drives) >> > > It is really a nightmare sometimes. I have an HVD QBUS card that has a > standard 50 pin connector and an HVD disk that matches it. Without > knowing what they are, they are indistinguishable from standard SE > SCSI disks. I do not know for sure what would happen if you connected > the wrong drive/controller together, but I expect it would not be a > pretty sight. Other than the one HVD SCSI disk that I got with the > controller, I have never seen another HVD SCSI disk. I owuld imagine > they are rare enough that if I did, I could never afford to buy them. > > bill > The reason for HVD is that it allows long cables. SE limits you to something like three or four feet. Differential, either LVD or HVD, allows fifteen or twenty feet. Look up the length limitation; my memory is not reliable!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 07:41:40 -0800 (PST) From: urbancamo Subject: Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Message-ID: <56da1f8c-ef59-4948-b57f-52a4ce981ba4@f3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> Thanks for the quick responses. What you're saying then is that basically this card is really only of any use to connect tape libraries or other external SCSI devices that use HVD. I'm unlikely to find a HVD internal drive, so either I buy the -CA (or -CX?) variant or continue to use an IDE drive in this server. Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 07:50:44 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Message-ID: <8a7e0557-04c9-4336-91d0-0294d966b4e8@3g2000yqs.googlegroups.com> On Nov 21, 9:41=A0am, urbancamo wrote: > Thanks for the quick responses. > > What you're saying then is that basically this card is really only of > any use to connect tape libraries or other external SCSI devices that > use HVD. I'm unlikely to find a HVD internal drive, so either I buy > the -CA (or -CX?) variant or continue to use an IDE drive in this > server. > > Mark. It was also used to connect to HSZ70/80 RAID controllers. While you may not find HVD devices easily, you may be able to pick up an inexpensive DWZZx device (DEC SE to HVD converter), or an SBB shelf with the equivalent DWZZx SBB built in. There were a few different models (DWZZA, DWZZB, etc) and I don't have references handy. Not internal but you could also run more than one SE drive off the DWZZx device. I wouldn't expect a KZPBA-CA/CX to cost much these days. Its the faster ones (KZPCA, KZPEA) that are staying a bit pricey. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Nov 2008 17:24:13 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Message-ID: <6oo95tF4jdtlU2@mid.individual.net> In article , "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > Bill Gunshannon wrote: >> In article , >> urbancamo writes: >>> On Nov 21, 2:20 pm, "David Turner, islandco.com" >>> wrote: >>>> YOU are going to damage the disk >>>> You either need a differential (High Voltage) hard drive or replace the >>>> KZPBA-CB with the KZPBA-CA >>>> The KZPBA-CB is High Voltage Differential ad will not work with that disk >>>> Honest ! >>> Thanks for the reply David. I take it that the blurb in the manual >>> about the controller support all SCSI protocols (backwards-compatible) >>> does not apply to all the connections, for example, if I connected a >>> drive to the 50 PIN SE connector on the card would that work? What >>> drives out there would be supported by this card (thinking 3.5" 1" >>> high internal SCSI drives) >>> >> >> It is really a nightmare sometimes. I have an HVD QBUS card that has a >> standard 50 pin connector and an HVD disk that matches it. Without >> knowing what they are, they are indistinguishable from standard SE >> SCSI disks. I do not know for sure what would happen if you connected >> the wrong drive/controller together, but I expect it would not be a >> pretty sight. Other than the one HVD SCSI disk that I got with the >> controller, I have never seen another HVD SCSI disk. I owuld imagine >> they are rare enough that if I did, I could never afford to buy them. >> >> bill >> > > The reason for HVD is that it allows long cables. SE limits you to > something like three or four feet. Differential, either LVD or HVD, > allows fifteen or twenty feet. Look up the length limitation; my memory > is not reliable!! That's true, which makes my system even more unique. Disk and controller in a BA23. Cable length ~12". :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 21 Nov 2008 17:29:58 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: KZPBA-CB internal connection to Seagate ST118273W Message-ID: <6oo9gmF4jdtlU3@mid.individual.net> In article <8a7e0557-04c9-4336-91d0-0294d966b4e8@3g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>, Rich Jordan writes: > On Nov 21, 9:41 am, urbancamo wrote: >> Thanks for the quick responses. >> >> What you're saying then is that basically this card is really only of >> any use to connect tape libraries or other external SCSI devices that >> use HVD. I'm unlikely to find a HVD internal drive, so either I buy >> the -CA (or -CX?) variant or continue to use an IDE drive in this >> server. >> >> Mark. > It was also used to connect to HSZ70/80 RAID controllers. > While you may not find HVD devices easily, you may be able to pick up > an inexpensive DWZZx device (DEC SE to HVD converter), Wow, finally someone with knowledge of these things. I have a pair of DWZZB-AA boxes but I always thought they were LVD and not HVD. Am I mistaken? If they are truly HVD I may finally have a way to use that HVD controller in one of my PDP-11's. I wait with bated breathe for the clarification. Are these HVD rather than LVD or is there any chance they have some kind of jumpers inside that let them do either? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:04:56 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: OpenVMS, eXursion, Laptop Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:15:13 -0800, wrote: > Hello, > > I have started working again with OpenVMS after a four year exile. > The environment I am at uses Refelctions X, but apparently they are > having problems getting approval for new licenses. So, I remembered > that we could use eXcursion and have setup that for my use. > Unfortunately, that means reinventing the wheel here and there instead > of scavenging from other people's setup. > > Does anyone have a custom keydef file for eXcursion? I have an IBM > ThinkPad laptop and would at the very least like my Home and End keys > to map to Ctrl-H and Ctrl-E respectively (plus any other keys people > find useful with DECTerm). You might also look at PuTTY, it supports VT100+ and VT400, I use eXcursion on my laptop principally for running things like emacs off a VMS host > > TIA > > sccr13plyr -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 04:46:47 -0800 (PST) From: Galen Subject: Re: test - please ignore Message-ID: <8e4ac2cc-00c8-4e06-8fc2-33da0db334b3@a12g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> > Please ignore If I ignored it, I wouldn't be ignoring it. I'm confused! Just another spin on the Epimenides paradox. :-D ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.631 ************************