INFO-VAX Wed, 22 Oct 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 570 Contents: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Re: Disabling the F6 interrupt function Re: Disabling the F6 interrupt function Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Re: How to make a java memory dump Re: OpenVMS Book Wins award Re: Selective record extraction/copy? Re: Selective record extraction/copy? Re: Selective record extraction/copy? Trying to buy VMS licenses Re: Trying to buy VMS licenses Re: Trying to buy VMS licenses Re: Trying to buy VMS licenses Re: Trying to buy VMS licenses Re: Trying to buy VMS licenses Re: Trying to buy VMS licenses Re: Trying to buy VMS licenses When was "Line editing" introduced? Re: When was "Line editing" introduced? Re: When was "Line editing" introduced? Re: When was "Line editing" introduced? Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Oct 2008 16:23:43 -0500 From: cornelius@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Message-ID: In article , "Ed Dennison" writes: > "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" > wrote in message news:gd3v58$vsg$1@online.de... >> In article , John Santos >> writes: >> >>> With the disk present but unmountable, you are in this Catch-22: >>> the normal default for MOUNT is /ASSIST, but OPCOM isn't running yet >>> and logins aren't enabled yet, so you can't log in to reply to the >>> mount request. You should add /noassist to the mounts in >>> systartup_vms.com, or stick them in a batch job that doesn't get >>> executed until after logins are enabled and the rest of the system >>> is up. (But you probably need the disks mounted to start the >>> application, so I would go with mount/noassist. Then at least you >>> can log in and fix things if a disk goes south.) >> >> I agree! MOUNT/NOASSIST in the startup, especially if you expect things >> to come up automatically out of the box after, say, an emergency reboot, >> power failure etc. >> > > At startup you should not need to specify /NOASSIST. This should - in > theory - be the default. > VMS$BASEENVIRON-050_VMS.COM sets up the symbol 'mount' and equates it to > 'mount/noassist'. > So long as this procedure runs (and you spell 'mount' correctly) you should > not need to use the /NOASSIST qualifier. I have never seen the definition you describe. Here is the result of $ SHOW SYMBOL/GLOBAL/ALL at the beginning of a 7.3-2 SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM: $RESTART == "FALSE" $SEVERITY == "0" $STATUS == "%X00038140" OPC$OVERRIDE_CLASSES == "" PREFIX_STRING == "DECW$GRAPHICS_,SYS$,DECW$" STARTUP$AUTOCONFIGURE_ALL == 1 Hex = 00000001 Octal = 00000000001 STARTUP$INTERACTIVE_LOGINS == 64 Hex = 00000040 Octal = 00000000100 STDRV$AUDIT == "true" STDRV$ERROR_CODE == "%X000182B2" STDRV$SECSRV == "true" [there's no local symbol present for MOUNT, either]. Perhaps you are being misled by the _other_ documented behavior, that $ MOUNT becomes $ MOUNT/NOASSIST if there are no operator terminals at the time able to receive mount requests. $ MOUNT/ASSIST is normally appropriate at mount time, but if you have shadow sets you may want to consider /POLICY=REQUIRE_MEMBERS as well, since this gives you a chance to reject the mounting of a single member when it may be possible that the single member that is seen at boot is not the one with the most current data. -- George Cornelius cornelius A T eisner D O T decus D O T org cornelius A T mayo D O T edu ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 2008 16:46:06 -0500 From: cornelius@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Message-ID: In article <0f71d7a7-45cf-4f1a-8caa-24a40e8a77a2@b31g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, PR writes: > I have a remote client that has somehow gotten himself into a mess, > and I'm not sure how to get them out of it remotely. > > They hired a consultant to come in an "work on the network." This - > ah - "brilliant person" apparently convinced them he just had to > reboot the 2660. > > He booted the 2660 system with a Linux DVD and somehow or another, > managed to format the second drive (used for data storage) with > Linux. How is beyond me... Because a Linux install disk very early on wants to create one or more Linux partitions for you. A VMS disk has no partition table, so to the 'expert' this must mean it has no data on it. Voila! Safe to write a partition table to it, and, at the very least, a Linux swap partition. None of which you need to do if you know how to escape out of the Linux install (select an alternate console) and go straight to a root prompt. Not that Linux would be any help diagnosing a VMS system anyway. -- George Cornelius cornelius A T eisner D O T decus D O T org cornelius A T mayo D O T edu > Anyway, I'm a good 500 miles away from this server physically, and > there is a mount/system command in the systartup_vms.com file to mount > this noe Linux formatted disk. Which obviously won't mount. > > The system boot stalls at this mount request. I think I might be able > to put an /ASSIST qualifier in there and cancel the mount, but I have > to get past the mount request to do that. :) > > Is there any easy way around this? Will just pulling the drive enable > it to bypass? > > I'm overnighting a freshly formatted drive that will mount, but if I > can get this production box > up tonight, it would be a nice thing. > > Sneaky tricks invited. :) ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 2008 16:54:12 -0500 From: cornelius@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Message-ID: In article , "Ed Dennison" writes: > "Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply" > wrote in message news:gd3v58$vsg$1@online.de... >> In article , John Santos >> writes: >> >>> With the disk present but unmountable, you are in this Catch-22: >>> the normal default for MOUNT is /ASSIST, but OPCOM isn't running yet >>> and logins aren't enabled yet, so you can't log in to reply to the >>> mount request. You should add /noassist to the mounts in >>> systartup_vms.com, or stick them in a batch job that doesn't get >>> executed until after logins are enabled and the rest of the system >>> is up. (But you probably need the disks mounted to start the >>> application, so I would go with mount/noassist. Then at least you >>> can log in and fix things if a disk goes south.) >> >> I agree! MOUNT/NOASSIST in the startup, especially if you expect things >> to come up automatically out of the box after, say, an emergency reboot, >> power failure etc. >> > > At startup you should not need to specify /NOASSIST. This should - in > theory - be the default. > VMS$BASEENVIRON-050_VMS.COM sets up the symbol 'mount' and equates it to > 'mount/noassist'. It's done as a local symbol, and, per my prior post, is not present when SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM is entered. The symbol went away when the VMS$BASEENVIRON* file completed execution. -- George Cornelius cornelius A T eisner D O T decus D O T org cornelius A T mayo D O T edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:43:22 -0700 (PDT) From: tadamsmar Subject: Re: Disabling the F6 interrupt function Message-ID: <5d017f72-195b-4aa0-9d64-b5e515576413@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Oct 16, 9:13=A0am, tadamsmar wrote: > On Oct 16, 8:54=A0am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > > > > > > Koehler) wrote: > > In article , tadamsmar writes: > > > > I just found out that a system I maintain is hosed if someone hits > > > F6. =A0It halts the interface, stops ASTs from running, stops freeing > > > locks, halts the system and sets off the watchdog timer. > > > > I am trying to figure out how to fix the problem. =A0 The interface u= ses > > > SMG. > > > > I would like to leave line editing functions on if possible, when the > > > user is entering line mode commands. > > > > This interface traps control Y and C but F6 gets by this. =A0 I let > > > control Y and C exit the system in situations where a unified > > > transaction is not in progress. > > > =A0 What the program gets from F6 probably starts with an escape > > =A0 character. =A0I'd look into what SMG is doing with this. > > I searched the archives here on "F6 Interrupt" and did not see a > mention of an SMG solution deals only with F6 and has not side- > effects, and I don't know of one. The only solutions I have found have > side effects: (1) turn off line editing (2) SET NOCONTROL-Y. > > It is possible to turn line editing on and off with SMG commands or > system services. =A0I am looking at turning it off at the critical > times, but of course this solution requires a bit of application > analysis.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Opps! I was wrong about something. SET NOCONTROL-Y does not work because F6 generates a CTRL/C. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 2008 15:58:12 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Disabling the F6 interrupt function Message-ID: In article <6e8b50bf-00b8-4085-aaf6-0c1d382b39d0@u65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, tadamsmar writes: > > This solution is useful but not 100% reliable. Only one AST is > established and it has to run to re-establish another. If you jam the > F6 key down then I find that the F6 key eventually wins the race with > the re-establishment of the AST and causes an interrupt. Can't the AST re-establish itself before exiting? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:17:45 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: <789a494a-1fea-4a4d-881e-d9495da8a40b@v56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Oct 20, 12:21 pm, cornel...@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius) wrote: > In article <00A80651.AB22D...@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > > > You can always write your own recall buffer dump and or recall buffer > > manipulator for use in your own DCL environment. It's not difficult. Cool. Of course! I'm working on it. > > This works: > > $ pipe recall/out=x.lis ; search x.lis sea I'm running VMS V6.2, so I don't have PIPE. (Please, for those who haven't heard my spiel on this before: Upgrading is NOT an option. I have too many systems and no time for it.) Regardless, it doesn't work (run on DECUServe): $ RECALL/ALL 1 TYPE RECA.COM 2 DIR/SIZE=ALL X.LIS 3 @RECA 4 SH DEV DK 5 SH DEV DS 6 SH DEF 7 ED/EDT RECA.COM 8 ED RECA.COM $ TYPE RECA.COM $ pipe recall/out=x.lis ! ; search x.lis sea $ @RECA $ DIR/SIZE X.LIS %DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found $ > > Obviously, you could use @script x.lis after the semicolon if you wanted. OK, but it doesn't work. > > And you could put the whole pipe string in a symbol, e.g., > > $ rs:==pipe recal/out=x.lis ; sear x.lis OK, now *this* is obvious, but it still doesn't work. > > Of course, using a unique file name based on process ID would be better: > > $ rs_fname:=='f$getjpi(0,"PID")'.rs_scratch > $ rs:==pipe recal/out='rs_fname' ; sear 'rs_fname' > > Adding autocleanup: > > $ pipe rs_fname:=='f$getjpi(0,"PID")'.rs_scratch ; copy nl: &rs_fname > $ rs:==pipe recal/out='rs_fname' ; purg 'rs_fname' ; sear 'rs_fname' Nice, but the original trick doesn't work. The problem with all this is that something always ends up broken: o Running CONTINUE after ^Y (always, apparently -- so far anyway) o Passing params that contain quotation marks o The RECALL buffer Using INQUIRE: While this actually puts the commands into the RECALL buffer and allows access to them via the up-arrow, it unfortunately causes commands such as "RECALL n" and "RECALL/qual" to do nothing. More importantly, INQUIRE causes problems with params that contain quotation marks. Using READ SYS$COMMAND: This has the enormous advantage of reading the command string verbatim, but it only allows you to go one command back when you press the up-arrow and doesn't add the command to the RECALL buffer. I've starting working on the DCL code to emulate my own recall buffer. OK. But one cannot run CONTINUE after a control_y: the process goes directly back to the command file. Anyone have any ideas of how to take care of that? The Quick and Dirty Solution (QADS): Spawn a subprocess that writes the time to the screen every n minutes. OK, this doesn't break any of the above, but it offers only n-minute-resolution. And worse, it will clutter up the screen and occasionally interrupt command output! It's always something! --Roseanne Roseannadanna BTW, if one doesn't want to save commands in a command file by redirecting the output from a command procedure containing a RECALL command via $ @proc.com/OUT=proc.out ! , or similar -- okay, fine. But what's wrong with running RECALL/ALL and RECALL from within a command procedure when the output goes to the terminal? I guess the answer to this is the KISS methodology. Thanks to all for your help and suggestions! AEF > > -- > George Cornelius cornelius A T eisner D O T decus D O T org [...] > > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM [...] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:34:40 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: <00A8171A.FEFECF71@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <789a494a-1fea-4a4d-881e-d9495da8a40b@v56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: >On Oct 20, 12:21 pm, cornel...@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius) >wrote: >> In article <00A80651.AB22D...@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> >> > You can always write your own recall buffer dump and or recall buffer >> > manipulator for use in your own DCL environment. It's not difficult. > >Cool. Of course! > >I'm working on it. > >> >> This works: >> >> $ pipe recall/out=x.lis ; search x.lis sea > >I'm running VMS V6.2, so I don't have PIPE. (Please, for those who >haven't heard my spiel on this before: Upgrading is NOT an option. I >have too many systems and no time for it.) > >Regardless, it doesn't work (run on DECUServe): > >$ RECALL/ALL > 1 TYPE RECA.COM > 2 DIR/SIZE=ALL X.LIS > 3 @RECA > 4 SH DEV DK > 5 SH DEV DS > 6 SH DEF > 7 ED/EDT RECA.COM > 8 ED RECA.COM >$ TYPE RECA.COM >$ pipe recall/out=x.lis ! ; search x.lis sea >$ @RECA >$ DIR/SIZE X.LIS >%DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found Two things Alan... Remove the ! if you actually have that in your PIPE command. Secondly, the search command is looking for SEArch... I don't see that command in your RECALL list so obvioulsy, the X.LIS files would be empty. Try: $ PIPE RECALL/OUT=X.LIS ; SEARCH X.LIS ED >$ > >> >> Obviously, you could use @script x.lis after the semicolon if you wanted. > >OK, but it doesn't work. > >> >> And you could put the whole pipe string in a symbol, e.g., >> >> $ rs:==pipe recal/out=x.lis ; sear x.lis > >OK, now *this* is obvious, but it still doesn't work. > >> >> Of course, using a unique file name based on process ID would be better: >> >> $ rs_fname:=='f$getjpi(0,"PID")'.rs_scratch >> $ rs:==pipe recal/out='rs_fname' ; sear 'rs_fname' >> >> Adding autocleanup: >> >> $ pipe rs_fname:=='f$getjpi(0,"PID")'.rs_scratch ; copy nl: &rs_fname >> $ rs:==pipe recal/out='rs_fname' ; purg 'rs_fname' ; sear 'rs_fname' > >Nice, but the original trick doesn't work. > >The problem with all this is that something always ends up broken: > >o Running CONTINUE after ^Y (always, apparently -- so far anyway) >o Passing params that contain quotation marks >o The RECALL buffer > >Using INQUIRE: While this actually puts the commands into the RECALL >buffer and allows access to them via the up-arrow, it unfortunately >causes commands such as "RECALL n" and "RECALL/qual" to do nothing. >More importantly, INQUIRE causes problems with params that contain >quotation marks. > >Using READ SYS$COMMAND: This has the enormous advantage of reading the >command string verbatim, but it only allows you to go one command back >when you press the up-arrow and doesn't add the command to the RECALL >buffer. > >I've starting working on the DCL code to emulate my own recall buffer. >OK. But one cannot run CONTINUE after a control_y: the process goes >directly back to the command file. Anyone have any ideas of how to >take care of that? > >The Quick and Dirty Solution (QADS): Spawn a subprocess that writes >the time to the screen every n minutes. OK, this doesn't break any of >the above, but it offers only n-minute-resolution. And worse, it will >clutter up the screen and occasionally interrupt command output! > > It's always something! --Roseanne Roseannadanna > >BTW, if one doesn't want to save commands in a command file by >redirecting the output from a command procedure containing a RECALL >command via > > $ @proc.com/OUT=proc.out ! , > >or similar -- okay, fine. But what's wrong with running RECALL/ALL and >RECALL from within a command procedure when the output goes to the >terminal? I guess the answer to this is the KISS methodology. > >Thanks to all for your help and suggestions! > >AEF > >> >> -- >> George Cornelius cornelius A T eisner D O T decus D O T org >[...] >> > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >[...] Let me see if I can work up a RECALL edit for you using "SYMBOL" and DCL. Can you install other software on the system you're using? If I can whip something up using SYMBOL, you can use it. It could be done without SYMBOL but then you would need to look up varions P1 space DCL values manually and put them into the DCL. This will also depend upon what can be read from usermode. If an address is only SUPERVISOR read, you're SOL from DCL. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:20:40 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: On Oct 21, 3:34 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <789a494a-1fea-4a4d-881e-d9495da8a...@v56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > >On Oct 20, 12:21 pm, cornel...@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius) > >wrote: > >> In article <00A80651.AB22D...@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > > >> > You can always write your own recall buffer dump and or recall buffer > >> > manipulator for use in your own DCL environment. It's not difficult. > > >Cool. Of course! > > >I'm working on it. > > >> This works: > > >> $ pipe recall/out=x.lis ; search x.lis sea > > >I'm running VMS V6.2, so I don't have PIPE. (Please, for those who > >haven't heard my spiel on this before: Upgrading is NOT an option. I > >have too many systems and no time for it.) > > >Regardless, it doesn't work (run on DECUServe): > > >$ RECALL/ALL > > 1 TYPE RECA.COM > > 2 DIR/SIZE=ALL X.LIS > > 3 @RECA > > 4 SH DEV DK > > 5 SH DEV DS > > 6 SH DEF > > 7 ED/EDT RECA.COM > > 8 ED RECA.COM > >$ TYPE RECA.COM > >$ pipe recall/out=x.lis ! ; search x.lis sea > >$ @RECA > >$ DIR/SIZE X.LIS > >%DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found > > Two things Alan... > > Remove the ! if you actually have that in your PIPE command. > Secondly, the search command is looking for SEArch... I don't > see that command in your RECALL list so obvioulsy, the X.LIS > files would be empty. > > Try: > > $ PIPE RECALL/OUT=X.LIS ; SEARCH X.LIS ED $ RECALL/ALL 1 ED RECA.COM $ TYPE RECA.COM $ PIPE RECALL/OUT=X.LIS ; SEARCH X.LIS ED $ @RECA %SEARCH-W-OPENIN, error opening EISNER$DRA3: [DECUSERVE_USER.FELDMAN]X.LIS; as in put -RMS-E-FNF, file not found %SEARCH-E-NOFILE, no file found %NONAME-E-NOMSG, Message number 08D7804A $ It still doesn't work. [...] > Let me see if I can work up a RECALL edit for you using > "SYMBOL" and DCL. Can you install other software on the > system you're using? If I can whip something up using Perhaps. I'll have to check with the boss. > SYMBOL, you can use it. It could be done without SYMBOL > but then you would need to look up varions P1 space DCL > values manually and put them into the DCL. This will > also depend upon what can be read from usermode. If an > address is only SUPERVISOR read, you're SOL from DCL. So it won't break anything like using DCL params containing quotation marks, being able to CONTINUE after ^Y, and such? Thanks. > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM [...] AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:45:53 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: <00A81724.F23669A2@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , AEF writes: >On Oct 21, 3:34 pm, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> In article <789a494a-1fea-4a4d-881e-d9495da8a...@v56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: >> >On Oct 20, 12:21 pm, cornel...@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius) >> >wrote: >> >> In article <00A80651.AB22D...@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> >> >> > You can always write your own recall buffer dump and or recall buffer >> >> > manipulator for use in your own DCL environment. It's not difficult. >> >> >Cool. Of course! >> >> >I'm working on it. >> >> >> This works: >> >> >> $ pipe recall/out=x.lis ; search x.lis sea >> >> >I'm running VMS V6.2, so I don't have PIPE. (Please, for those who >> >haven't heard my spiel on this before: Upgrading is NOT an option. I >> >have too many systems and no time for it.) >> >> >Regardless, it doesn't work (run on DECUServe): >> >> >$ RECALL/ALL >> > 1 TYPE RECA.COM >> > 2 DIR/SIZE=ALL X.LIS >> > 3 @RECA >> > 4 SH DEV DK >> > 5 SH DEV DS >> > 6 SH DEF >> > 7 ED/EDT RECA.COM >> > 8 ED RECA.COM >> >$ TYPE RECA.COM >> >$ pipe recall/out=x.lis ! ; search x.lis sea >> >$ @RECA >> >$ DIR/SIZE X.LIS >> >%DIRECT-W-NOFILES, no files found >> >> Two things Alan... >> >> Remove the ! if you actually have that in your PIPE command. >> Secondly, the search command is looking for SEArch... I don't >> see that command in your RECALL list so obvioulsy, the X.LIS >> files would be empty. >> >> Try: >> >> $ PIPE RECALL/OUT=X.LIS ; SEARCH X.LIS ED > >$ RECALL/ALL > 1 ED RECA.COM >$ TYPE RECA.COM >$ PIPE RECALL/OUT=X.LIS ; SEARCH X.LIS ED >$ @RECA >%SEARCH-W-OPENIN, error opening EISNER$DRA3: >[DECUSERVE_USER.FELDMAN]X.LIS; as in >put >-RMS-E-FNF, file not found >%SEARCH-E-NOFILE, no file found >%NONAME-E-NOMSG, Message number 08D7804A >$ > >It still doesn't work. Weird: EISNER$ $ PIPE RECALL/OUT=X.LIS ; SEARCH X.LIS ED ed login.com ed login.com EISNER$ sh def DISK_SUPPORT:[DECUSERVE_SUPPORT.SCHENKENBERG] >[...] >> Let me see if I can work up a RECALL edit for you using >> "SYMBOL" and DCL. Can you install other software on the >> system you're using? If I can whip something up using > >Perhaps. I'll have to check with the boss. > >> SYMBOL, you can use it. It could be done without SYMBOL >> but then you would need to look up varions P1 space DCL >> values manually and put them into the DCL. This will >> also depend upon what can be read from usermode. If an >> address is only SUPERVISOR read, you're SOL from DCL. > >So it won't break anything like using DCL params containing quotation >marks, being able to CONTINUE after ^Y, and such? Why should it? It would just read what DCL has stored EXACTLY as is from the command line to the RECALL buffer. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 02:00:21 GMT From: "Tim E. Sneddon" Subject: Re: Enhancing DCL, was: Re: How do I add 2 letters to a long Message-ID: AEF wrote: > I've starting working on the DCL code to emulate my own recall buffer. > OK. But one cannot run CONTINUE after a control_y: the process goes > directly back to the command file. Anyone have any ideas of how to > take care of that? > I wrote a small program called XREAD. It uses SMG to read the command line and stores its own recall buffer in a logical. It even supports /END_OF_FILE and /ERROR like READ. If you want I can dig up the source. Tim. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:38:25 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: How to make a java memory dump Message-ID: <48FE67F1.3BA52241@spam.comcast.net> Bob Koehler wrote: > > In article , tdirven@volvocars.com writes: > > Hello, > > > > I'm using Java based applications that are running as a detached > > process on OpenVMS (Alpha and I64) > > I use Java version 1.5. > > The java applications consume a lot of memory. > > > > Is it possible to make a memory dump of all Java classes so I can find > > out which java objects are using the all the RAM memory? > > The JRE tends to map things it wants to look at and never let them > go. This includes all the classes that are used once. Hhmmm... Sems to reflect AIX's paradigm of memory utilization: keep everything in memory until you know that something else is more important. D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:39:14 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: OpenVMS Book Wins award Message-ID: <48FE6822.64AE12D6@spam.comcast.net> yyyc186 wrote: > > The Minimum You Need to Know About Service Orieted Architecture by > Roland Hughes > > Award-Winner in the Business: Technology/Computers/Internet category > of the National Best Books 2008 Awards, sponsored by USA Book News > > You can find this book in Island Computer's Web store. Great job, Roland! Excellent! D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:37:09 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Selective record extraction/copy? Message-ID: <48FE67A5.9AF1EDBC@spam.comcast.net> yyyc186 wrote: > > On Oct 18, 5:16 pm, gerr...@no.spam.mail.com wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > > > how do I copy just some records from a non-indexed file to another one without > > having to resort to third party utilities like EXTRACT (1)? I just needed > > something like DUMP/BLOCKS or DUMP/RECORDS with binary output, but wasn't able > > to find it among the standard system utilities. I also gave a quick check to > > CONVERT and SORT documentation, to no avail. I'm a hobbyist, so I'm not very > > used to RMS tools... Am I missing something obvious? > > > > Thanks, > > G. > > > > (1)http://mvb.saic.com/freeware/freewarev80/extract/ > > If you obtain a copy of "The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS > Application Developer" it shows you how to use a SORT SPECIFICATION > file to do just what you want. I'd often thought that SORT SPECIFICATION files would hav been VMS's answer to many UN*X complaints about the environment, if only it had been more effectively documented. I messed with those for more than 15 years before I got to one that actually did something useful, and that was from clues I found here in c.o.v.! D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:57:27 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Selective record extraction/copy? Message-ID: David J Dachtera wrote: > yyyc186 wrote: >> On Oct 18, 5:16 pm, gerr...@no.spam.mail.com wrote: >>> Hello everyone, >>> >>> how do I copy just some records from a non-indexed file to another one without >>> having to resort to third party utilities like EXTRACT (1)? I just needed >>> something like DUMP/BLOCKS or DUMP/RECORDS with binary output, but wasn't able >>> to find it among the standard system utilities. I also gave a quick check to >>> CONVERT and SORT documentation, to no avail. I'm a hobbyist, so I'm not very >>> used to RMS tools... Am I missing something obvious? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> G. >>> >>> (1)http://mvb.saic.com/freeware/freewarev80/extract/ >> If you obtain a copy of "The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS >> Application Developer" it shows you how to use a SORT SPECIFICATION >> file to do just what you want. > > I'd often thought that SORT SPECIFICATION files would hav been VMS's > answer to many UN*X complaints about the environment, if only it had > been more effectively documented. I messed with those for more than 15 > years before I got to one that actually did something useful, and that > was from clues I found here in c.o.v.! > > D.J.D. ISTR doing it successfully many years ago but it is not and was not something I do with any frequency. I think I just found the right pages in the manual, did what they said and it just worked! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:20:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: Selective record extraction/copy? Message-ID: On Oct 20, 1:17=A0pm, yyyc186 wrote: > On Oct 18, 5:16=A0pm, gerr...@no.spam.mail.com wrote: > > > I just needed something like DUMP/BLOCKS or DUMP/RECORDS with binary ou= tput, but wasn't able > > to find it among the standard system utilities. I also gave a quick che= ck to > > CONVERT and SORT documentation, to no avail : > If you obtain a copy of "The Minimum You Need to Know to Be an OpenVMS > Application Developer" it shows you how to use a SORT SPECIFICATION > file to do just what you want. Roland, Please help me understand how to instruct sort to use a start/ end or start/count selection as per DUMP 'just as he wanted it'. The Sort Spec (in the Cobol chapter!) of the book shows the normal selection by field contents. I do not believe there to be a psuedo- field representing the record number. - extract, and dix are good suggestions for freeware. - EHG select (out friend John Santos), a good commercial product. - a home grown program in C or Macro or whatever should be just just a few dozen lines an less than an hour.. if you have an example. Cheers, Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 11:50:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Dean Woodward Subject: Trying to buy VMS licenses Message-ID: <9f0e6cf1-f2d3-48b9-8832-71f0d2af3040@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com> Or, "Can't get there from here". Or, "Tried the front door, now let's try the back door". So the company I work for recently picked up a nice used RX2600 from eBay. We want to put VMS on it (duh). Poked at HP's website, couldn't find a reasonable way to get to anything specific that mentioned both "VMS" and "buy some". Trying to select "servers" and "Itanium" servers got me a list of places that included several dozen iterations of Costco and Office Max. Might as well ask for Beef Wellington at a McDonald's. So I took a flying leap and called the large customer number. After a notably short call direction system and a moderate wait, I got to talk to a body who, surprisingly, understood that she might be able to help me. Or not. We're not a reseller, so I need to deal with inside sales or a reseller. (Duh, that's why I'm calling...) and we don't have an inside sales agent assigned to us, and apparently she couldn't figure out how to do that. Please call back later- maybe this afternoon, maybe next week. We are Verrrry Sorrry. Anyone here work for a reseller, or know who I might talk to, that might be able to sell some VMS? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:13:19 +0000 (UTC) From: gartmann@nonsense.immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) Subject: Re: Trying to buy VMS licenses Message-ID: In article <9f0e6cf1-f2d3-48b9-8832-71f0d2af3040@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com>, Dean Woodward writes: >Anyone here work for a reseller, or know who I might talk to, that >might be able to sell some VMS? If you won't mind to buy the license from Germany, I know several resellers that will be glad to sell you licenses (although it might take some time). Regards, Christoph Gartmann -- Max-Planck-Institut fuer Phone : +49-761-5108-464 Fax: -80464 Immunbiologie Postfach 1169 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de D-79011 Freiburg, Germany http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:40:18 -0700 (PDT) From: kczwei Subject: Re: Trying to buy VMS licenses Message-ID: On Oct 21, 12:50 pm, Dean Woodward wrote: > Anyone here work for a reseller, or know who I might talk to, that > might be able to sell some VMS? i have used justin@zunesis.com he has sold multiple Itanium class machines with VMS to my clients. When I need VMS only licenses for machines switching from linux to VMS, i have called direct to HP and had no problems ordering VMS base for rx2600's and rx2620's. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:46:53 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Trying to buy VMS licenses Message-ID: <48fe32a6$0$9622$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Dean Woodward wrote: > So I took a flying leap and called the large customer number. After a > notably short call direction system and a moderate wait, I got to talk > to a body who, surprisingly, understood that she might be able to help > me. That is why David of IslandCo is there. He can get you VMS licences if I am not mistaken and it is a simple call and you talk to someone who knows what VMS is and knows how to get you the licence. If you wish to deal directly with HP, I would recommend you email Sue, mention where you live and ask who you should contact about getting VMS licences. She may put you in touch with a VMS ambassador (do they still exist?) who will get you to the exact right person in your country. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 13:40:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Dean Woodward Subject: Re: Trying to buy VMS licenses Message-ID: <6afbae02-786a-473f-aa83-e8f05c5b4d78@u65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Oct 21, 12:40=A0pm, kczwei wrote: > When I need VMS only licenses for machines switching from linux to > VMS, i have called direct to HP and had no problems ordering VMS base > for rx2600's and rx2620's. Right- I have the machine, I need the OS licenses. As for a switch from Linux to VMS- that sounds like a success story that should get published. (Noting that the new machine here used to run Linux...) JF- I'd thought of IslandCo, but they don't advertise Itanium; I'll give them a call tomorrow (won't have time today). Don't need to deal directly with HP- would probably rather find a reseller. The trick is finding an "HP Partner"/Reseller that knows that VMS isn't a mis- capitialization of VMs. Sue is another good idea. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 2008 16:00:17 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Trying to buy VMS licenses Message-ID: In article <9f0e6cf1-f2d3-48b9-8832-71f0d2af3040@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com>, Dean Woodward writes: > Poked at HP's website, couldn't > find a reasonable way to get to anything specific that mentioned both > "VMS" and "buy some". You did try www.hp.com/go/vms ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:14:15 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Trying to buy VMS licenses Message-ID: <3eudnZEZ2IUqyWPVnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@comcast.com> Dean Woodward wrote: > Or, "Can't get there from here". > > Or, "Tried the front door, now let's try the back door". > > So the company I work for recently picked up a nice used RX2600 from > eBay. We want to put VMS on it (duh). Poked at HP's website, couldn't > find a reasonable way to get to anything specific that mentioned both > "VMS" and "buy some". Trying to select "servers" and "Itanium" servers > got me a list of places that included several dozen iterations of > Costco and Office Max. Might as well ask for Beef Wellington at a > McDonald's. > > So I took a flying leap and called the large customer number. After a > notably short call direction system and a moderate wait, I got to talk > to a body who, surprisingly, understood that she might be able to help > me. > > Or not. We're not a reseller, so I need to deal with inside sales or a > reseller. (Duh, that's why I'm calling...) and we don't have an inside > sales agent assigned to us, and apparently she couldn't figure out how > to do that. Please call back later- maybe this afternoon, maybe next > week. We are Verrrry Sorrry. > > Anyone here work for a reseller, or know who I might talk to, that > might be able to sell some VMS? One begins to suspect that they might not even notice if you ran without licenses!!!! I wouldn't recommend it but. . . . Contact Sue Skonetski. She should be able to put you in touch with someone who can sell you VMS licenses. When Sue is laid off, quits, or dies VMS will be dead for real! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:44:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Dean Woodward Subject: Re: Trying to buy VMS licenses Message-ID: On Oct 21, 2:00=A0pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <9f0e6cf1-f2d3-48b9-8832-71f0d2af3...@w39g2000prb.googlegroups= .com>, Dean Woodward writes: > > > Poked at HP's website, couldn't > > find a reasonable way to get to anything specific that mentioned both > > "VMS" and "buy some". > > =A0 =A0You did try www.hp.com/go/vms? Between various 404s, quasi-random jumps into pages that don't even admit VMS exists, and a "tell us about your experience" survey with no less than a half dozen script errors, I can download the product bulletin, so I can see what a new 2660 goes for, or an FOE license for the 2 processor system I already have, might cost. Not Pascal or C (at least, not for I64 systems), nor how I might actually get any of that... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 12:50:42 -0700 (PDT) From: tadamsmar Subject: When was "Line editing" introduced? Message-ID: <85e50f5e-0b12-411c-8093-9f0efee1c6bb@f77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> When was SET TERM/LINE (Line editing) introduced? I don't think is was in VMS back in the early eighties. But I don't recall when it was first introduced. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 2008 15:56:47 -0400 From: brooks@cuebid.ovms.usa.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) Subject: Re: When was "Line editing" introduced? Message-ID: <9aAHHO3lGdch@cuebid.ovms.usa.hp.com> tadamsmar writes: > When was SET TERM/LINE (Line editing) introduced? > > I don't think is was in VMS back in the early eighties. > > But I don't recall when it was first introduced. Probably when SMG was released, which was either V4.4 or V4.2, but I'd bet on V4.4. -- Rob Brooks MSL -- Nashua brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 2008 16:01:11 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: When was "Line editing" introduced? Message-ID: In article <85e50f5e-0b12-411c-8093-9f0efee1c6bb@f77g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, tadamsmar writes: > When was SET TERM/LINE (Line editing) introduced? > > I don't think is was in VMS back in the early eighties. > > But I don't recall when it was first introduced. VMS 4.0, 1984. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 2008 16:01:34 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: When was "Line editing" introduced? Message-ID: In article <9aAHHO3lGdch@cuebid.ovms.usa.hp.com>, brooks@cuebid.ovms.usa.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes: > tadamsmar writes: >> When was SET TERM/LINE (Line editing) introduced? >> >> I don't think is was in VMS back in the early eighties. >> >> But I don't recall when it was first introduced. > > Probably when SMG was released, which was either V4.4 or V4.2, but > I'd bet on V4.4. You missed the Cincinati DECUS? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:14:52 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <48fe39a7$0$12386$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> I get the feeling we are in some Star Trek episode where the crew, one by one, disapears without any sound/noise and it isn't until someone does a head count or tries to contact a crew member that they notice he is no longer aboard. Anyone else having similar feelings ? Or is it truly just a case of the formely regular posters to COV no longer participating here ? ------------------------------ Date: 21 Oct 2008 16:02:04 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <6HW1IxeVG5Cf@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <48fe39a7$0$12386$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > I get the feeling we are in some Star Trek episode where the crew, one > by one, disapears without any sound/noise and it isn't until someone > does a head count or tries to contact a crew member that they notice he > is no longer aboard. > > Anyone else having similar feelings ? > > Or is it truly just a case of the formely regular posters to COV no > longer participating here ? Perhaps your kill file runneth over? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:26:15 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <3eudnZAZ2IUbymPVnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@comcast.com> JF Mezei wrote: > I get the feeling we are in some Star Trek episode where the crew, one > by one, disapears without any sound/noise and it isn't until someone > does a head count or tries to contact a crew member that they notice he > is no longer aboard. > > Anyone else having similar feelings ? > > Or is it truly just a case of the formely regular posters to COV no > longer participating here ? I might be among the missing soon! Comcast has decided it does not want to provide access to newsgroups as part of "High Speed Internet" service. They want me to get it from some third party for more money! It DOES seem like a conspiracy! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:34:40 -0500 From: BRAD@rabbit.turquoisewitch.com (Brad Hamilton) Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: In article <3eudnZAZ2IUbymPVnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@comcast.com>, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >JF Mezei wrote: >> I get the feeling we are in some Star Trek episode where the crew, one >> by one, disapears without any sound/noise and it isn't until someone >> does a head count or tries to contact a crew member that they notice he >> is no longer aboard. >> >> Anyone else having similar feelings ? >> >> Or is it truly just a case of the formely regular posters to COV no >> longer participating here ? > >I might be among the missing soon! > >Comcast has decided it does not want to provide access to newsgroups as >part of "High Speed Internet" service. They want me to get it from some >third party for more money! > >It DOES seem like a conspiracy! I'm a Comcast subscriber, and I've already found (and tested) a "free" newsgroup server that carries c.o.v and v.n.t.tcpware (which are the only two groups which I follow. I'll be ready for the big switchover. If you like, you could email me, so that I can give you the server name; I'm bradhamilton. Short of that, Google Groups...(/me runs and ducks for cover). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:36:19 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <48fe68df$0$12404$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Comcast has decided it does not want to provide access to newsgroups as > part of "High Speed Internet" service. They want me to get it from some > third party for more money! I have an account with Astraweb and it is something like $25 for X amount of usage (in gigs) (pay per download). To use text newsgroups, this account essentially lasts forefer. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:21:42 -0500 From: BRAD@rabbit.turquoisewitch.com (Brad Hamilton) Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: In article <48fe68df$0$12404$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei wrote: >Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > >> Comcast has decided it does not want to provide access to newsgroups as >> part of "High Speed Internet" service. They want me to get it from some >> third party for more money! > > >I have an account with Astraweb and it is something like $25 for X >amount of usage (in gigs) (pay per download). To use text newsgroups, >this account essentially lasts forefer. I also investigated teranews, which claims to be "free" after a USD$3.95 charge to my credit card. Does anyone use this service? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 00:48:16 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <00A81746.CE9A9616@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , BRAD@rabbit.turquoisewitch.com (Brad Hamilton) writes: >In article <48fe68df$0$12404$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei wrote: >>Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >> >>> Comcast has decided it does not want to provide access to newsgroups as >>> part of "High Speed Internet" service. They want me to get it from some >>> third party for more money! >> >> >>I have an account with Astraweb and it is something like $25 for X >>amount of usage (in gigs) (pay per download). To use text newsgroups, >>this account essentially lasts forefer. > >I also investigated teranews, which claims to be "free" after a USD$3.95 charge >to my credit card. Does anyone use this service? Free = $3.95? How about $3.95 love? $3.95 sex? $3.95 Tibet? I need to purge the $3.95 radicals from my system. I need some $3.95 time too. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:51:01 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <48fe7a8a$0$1549$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Brad Hamilton wrote: > I also investigated teranews, which claims to be "free" after a USD$3.95 charge > to my credit card. Does anyone use this service? I used to use this. But found it less reliable than Astraweb. But you can't complain since it is essentially free. The $3.95 fee is really just to weed out casual users and only give free access to serious users. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:08:37 -0600 From: Dan O'Reilly Subject: Re: Who is left at VMS engineering ? Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20081021190631.061348a8@raptor.psccos.com> At 06:21 PM 10/21/2008, Brad Hamilton wrote: >In article <48fe68df$0$12404$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei wrote: > >Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > > > >> Comcast has decided it does not want to provide access to newsgroups as > >> part of "High Speed Internet" service. They want me to get it from some > >> third party for more money! > > > > > >I have an account with Astraweb and it is something like $25 for X > >amount of usage (in gigs) (pay per download). To use text newsgroups, > >this account essentially lasts forefer. > >I also investigated teranews, which claims to be "free" after a USD$3.95 >charge >to my credit card. Does anyone use this service? Yeah, it's OK. As long as you're not downloading terabytes of porn daily, just regular newsgroup reading should be fine. Otherwise, you get shut down for 24 hours if you exceed your limit. I've used it for about 3 years and had no real complaints. ------ +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ | Dan O'Reilly | "There are 10 types of people in this | | Principal Engineer | world: those who understand binary | | Process Software | and those who don't." | | http://www.process.com | | +-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.570 ************************