INFO-VAX Thu, 16 Oct 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 559 Contents: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Re: Disabling the F6 interrupt function Re: Disabling the F6 interrupt function Re: Disabling the F6 interrupt function Re: DS10 front access storage cage (3X-BA10B-AA) Good news for Itanium (if not VMS) Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Re: PC Systems for sale Linux/XP Pro Re: PC Systems for sale Linux/XP Pro Re: Random: VMS inspired Dell managed switch? Re: Status of DECUS Canada ? Re: strange disk states Re: strange disk states ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:15:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Bypass mount/system request at boot time? Message-ID: <4e7d7ecb-53d1-4aba-9a7b-a874889a7d16@u28g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Oct 15, 2:02=A0pm, PR wrote: > On Oct 15, 6:25=A0am, "Richard B. Gilbert" > wrote: > > > > > PR wrote: > > > I have a remote client that has somehow gotten himself into a mess, > > > and I'm not sure how to get them out of it remotely. > > > > They hired a consultant to come in an "work on the network." =A0This = - > > > ah - "brilliant person" apparently convinced them he just had to > > > reboot the 2660. > > > > He booted the 2660 system with a Linux DVD and somehow or another, > > > managed to format the second drive (used for data storage) with > > > Linux. =A0How is beyond me... > > > > Anyway, I'm a good 500 miles away from this server physically, and > > > there is a mount/system command in the systartup_vms.com file to moun= t > > > this noe Linux formatted disk. Which obviously won't mount. > > > > The system boot stalls at this mount request. I think I might be able > > > to put an /ASSIST qualifier in there and cancel the mount, but I have > > > to get past the mount request to do that. :) > > > > Is there any easy way around this? Will just pulling the drive enable > > > it to bypass? > > > > I'm overnighting a freshly formatted drive that will mount, but if I > > > can get this production box > > > up tonight, it would be a nice thing. > > > > Sneaky tricks invited. =A0:) > > > > -Paul > > > Short of concealing a poisoned needle in the power button, there isn't = a > > heck of a lot you can do. > > > I would write a letter to each of your people who were involved. =A0The > > letter =A0would threaten instant termination for tampering in any way w= ith > > your server or permitting others to do so. > > > You will still probably have to fire a couple of people before the > > message sinks in! > > > -- > > draco vulgaris > > I wish, but they don't work for me, and they purchased the server and > software. I am providing software support and upgrades for the custom > software. This is the first time there has been any problem that > involved VMS, and of course, this was not VMS' fault! > > I'm seriously debating on whether or not to invoice them, and how much > to invoice them for. You guys solved the issue and incidentally, made > me look good to the customer. (Thanks!) I don't really think I should > invoice them because of that. :) > > On the other hand, if I don't reinforce the lesson, I run the risk of > it being repeated. =A0Gads... I am not really sure of the right thing to > do in this case. > > -Paul You knew where to look for the answer. You recognized the answer when you found it. They could have asked here and bypassed you. Bill them at your highest rate. Bill them with a free conscience. There's the old joke about the guy called in to fix a company's computer. He spends a couple of minutes looking at it, pulls out a little hammer from his kit, taps the computer on the side and it starts working immediately. He says "That'll be $1,000" and the manager says "This is outrageous! I want an itemization of your charges!" So the guys fills out an invoice that says: "Computer repair, Tapping computer with hammer $10.00, Knowing where to tap $990." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 05:22:01 -0700 (PDT) From: tadamsmar Subject: Re: Disabling the F6 interrupt function Message-ID: All of the below, anything with an F6 key. If you have the terminal in "Line Editing" mode, the F6 seems to act like Control-Y, only the SMG$SET_OUT_OF_BAND_AST does not trap it when you configure it to trap Control-Y. You can put a terminal in Line Editing mode with the command: SET TERM/LINE Anyone who has an app that it trapping out Control-Y to change its behavior should probably test hitting the F6 key. We have had our app running for almost 20 years, then the day before yesterday I was running a brush over the keyboard and locked up the whole system. On Oct 15, 6:34=A0pm, s...@obanion.us wrote: > Is this on a workstation, a terminal via Telnet and an emulator, on > the console? > > In other words, I think a little more information would be useful.... > > Sean > > On Oct 15, 1:18=A0pm, tadamsmar wrote: > > > > > I just found out that a system I maintain is hosed if someone hits > > F6. =A0It halts the interface, stops ASTs from running, stops freeing > > locks, halts the system and sets off the watchdog timer. > > > I am trying to figure out how to fix the problem. =A0 The interface use= s > > SMG. > > > I would like to leave line editing functions on if possible, when the > > user is entering line mode commands. > > > This interface traps control Y and C but F6 gets by this. =A0 I let > > control Y and C exit the system in situations where a unified > > transaction is not in progress.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2008 07:54:57 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Disabling the F6 interrupt function Message-ID: In article , tadamsmar writes: > I just found out that a system I maintain is hosed if someone hits > F6. It halts the interface, stops ASTs from running, stops freeing > locks, halts the system and sets off the watchdog timer. > > I am trying to figure out how to fix the problem. The interface uses > SMG. > > I would like to leave line editing functions on if possible, when the > user is entering line mode commands. > > This interface traps control Y and C but F6 gets by this. I let > control Y and C exit the system in situations where a unified > transaction is not in progress. What the program gets from F6 probably starts with an escape character. I'd look into what SMG is doing with this. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 06:13:50 -0700 (PDT) From: tadamsmar Subject: Re: Disabling the F6 interrupt function Message-ID: <5ba3c9ff-ddc0-43b1-be2c-4e38976f09ca@d70g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Oct 16, 8:54=A0am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article , tadamsmar writes: > > > I just found out that a system I maintain is hosed if someone hits > > F6. =A0It halts the interface, stops ASTs from running, stops freeing > > locks, halts the system and sets off the watchdog timer. > > > I am trying to figure out how to fix the problem. =A0 The interface use= s > > SMG. > > > I would like to leave line editing functions on if possible, when the > > user is entering line mode commands. > > > This interface traps control Y and C but F6 gets by this. =A0 I let > > control Y and C exit the system in situations where a unified > > transaction is not in progress. > > =A0 What the program gets from F6 probably starts with an escape > =A0 character. =A0I'd look into what SMG is doing with this. I searched the archives here on "F6 Interrupt" and did not see a mention of an SMG solution deals only with F6 and has not side- effects, and I don't know of one. The only solutions I have found have side effects: (1) turn off line editing (2) SET NOCONTROL-Y. It is possible to turn line editing on and off with SMG commands or system services. I am looking at turning it off at the critical times, but of course this solution requires a bit of application analysis. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:20:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Len Whitwer Subject: Re: DS10 front access storage cage (3X-BA10B-AA) Message-ID: On Oct 11, 12:19=A0am, The Spriteman wrote: > i have a DS10 with internal Storage cage, but now i am searching for a fr= ont > acces storage cage, > > does anywhone here know what the best way is to find one? whithout paying > the full price. > > i live in Amsterdam (Netherlands) > > With regards, > > Robin > robinschip at hotmail dot com Robin: A CHEAP way to go would be to buy a BA356 external shelf or pedestal and attach to a SCSI controller in the DS10 and then you could run up to 7 more drives if you want. I could sell you the sub-system as below if interested. o BA356 7 slot shelf w/power supply $50 o PCI SCSI controller w/cable $50 o DS-RZ1CB-VW 4gb disk x 7units $50 Total $150.00 Have many larger drives available form 4GB to 300GB for this shelf. (Prices vary depending on size) Let me know if I can help, Len -Len Whitwer Puget Sound Data Systems, Inc. 19501 144th Ave. NE Suite D-100 Woodinville, WA 98072 e-mail mailto:len@psds.com Internet: http://www.psds.com Toll Free: (866)857-0710 Tel: (425) 488-0710 Fax: (425) 488-6414 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:47:57 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Good news for Itanium (if not VMS) Message-ID: Hi, Great news on Java and MySQL availability, especially on Itanium! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sun JavaT support for ItaniumŪ Platforms - Sun JavaT support for ItaniumŪ Platforms is now available with Java SE 6 for both Windows and Linux environments (Windows Server 2003 SP2, RHEL 4u5, SLES 9SP4, and SLES 10SP1). The culmination of a deep collaborative effort between Intel and Sun, the new Sun Java release provides a robust Java platform for Itanium-based solutions. Improvements in Hotspot Virtual Machine and class libraries deliver significant performance gains over the 1.4.2 Java release for Itanium. Download the new JDK for Windows and Linux (both Red Hat and SUSE) on Itanium. Learn more at the Itanium Solutions Alliance website. Run MySQL on HP-UX 11i v3 - MySQL announces availability of its flagship database product MySQL on HP-UX 11i v3. HP's latest HP-UX 11i release delivers complete integrated security plus significant advantages over prior releases in the areas of performance, simplified more powerful system management, and reduced downtime. Benefits to our mutual customers include faster time-to-solution, increased productivity, and risk avoidance. The range of Integrity servers running HP-UX 11i v3 - from entry-class to Superdomes to blade servers - gives our customers flexibility to configure to budget, business and technical requirements. Support for MySQL on HP-UX 11i is available from both HP and MySQL. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Honestly, what the hell do VMS Middle Management get paid for? Regards Richard Maher ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2008 07:45:59 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: > > A nice table-top front-end to your VMS servers, of course ! :-) VMS itself makes a better table-top front end. 8-) ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2008 07:47:00 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: In article <6lmq0dFd01o7U1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > Oh bullshit. We just went thru this whole discussion with numerous > of the VMS faithful openly admiting that you need another non-VMS > system in order to even bring up something as simple as a hobbyist > box. No, we didn't. We did cite examples where it would avoid typing in one or two PAKs. BFD. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2008 07:49:26 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: In article <6lms8pFd34alU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > Did you sleep thru the last two or three weeks here? We just went over > this. Remember the thread about cut-and-paste for inputing PAKS? Hard > to do on a terminal. Not hard o do on your other hobbyist system running DECwindows on VMS, though is it. No other OS involved. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2008 07:51:05 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: In article <6lnf6pFdb8tdU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > Still, not just VMS, is it? So, you think Windows is a piece of shit > and I think Macs are. > Which has as much to do with why we ignore you as your other FUD. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2008 13:02:54 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: <6losbuFd8o53U1@mid.individual.net> In article <00A81291.8B06FBBD@sendspamhere.org>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article <6lnf6pFdb8tdU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>In article <00A8126F.8C11E173@sendspamhere.org>, >> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >>> In article <6lmq0dFd01o7U1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>>>{...snip...} >>>> >>>>Oh bullshit. We just went thru this whole discussion with numerous >>>>of the VMS faithful openly admiting that you need another non-VMS >>>>system in order to even bring up something as simple as a hobbyist >>>>box. Not being int he market for yet another PC I didn't read enough >>> >>> That's bullshit and you know it. I have VAX, Alpha and Itanium boxes here >>> and NO WEENDOZE. All three are happily humming along without some brain- >>> damaged PoS from Micro$haft in the fold. >> >>Still, not just VMS, is it? So, you think Windows is a piece of shit >>and I think Macs are. > > ...and here, all this time, I thought you liked unix. I do like Unix. We have all heard of making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Mac proves the opposite is also true except it is a different part of the pig's anatomy. And, at the same time make all your fanatics believe it isn't Unix, it's OSX. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 13:17:35 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <6lnf6pFdb8tdU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> Still, not just VMS, is it? So, you think Windows is a piece of shit >> and I think Macs are. >> > > Which has as much to do with why we ignore you as your other FUD. > Who are "we" ? Which group are you talking for ? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 09:22:41 -0400 From: "David Turner, islandco.com" Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: I have Ubuntu running on my NEW PC and Both laptops It's still a PC! -- David B Turner ============================================= Island Computers US Corp PO Box 86 Tybee GA 31328 Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 Email: dturner@islandco.com International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 Fax: 912 786 8505 Web: www.islandco.com ============================================= wrote in message news:00A81271.ED81A313@SendSpamHere.ORG... > In article , > =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= > writes: >>John Santos wrote: >> >>> Talk about bullshit! This statement is utter crap. All you need is a >>> terminal. Though hyperterminal on a PC would do, it is the worst >>> possible choice. >> >>Correct, Putty or (in my case) Reflection is much better. >> >>> What else would you need a PC for? >> >>Mail, > > Mail is available on my OS X Mac or there is Evolution Mail on my Ubuntu > Linux. I still read most mail on VMS and only forward crap which has an > attachment to one of the aformentioned. > > >> web, > > Safari on my OS X Mac and Firefox on the Ununtu Linux. > > >>word-processing, > > Pages on my OS X Mac and OpenOffice Word Processor on my Ubuntu Linux. > > >>calculating, > > Calulators on my OS X Mac amd on my Ubuntu Linux. > Numbers on my OS X Mac and OpenOffice Spreadsheet on my Ubuntu Linux. > I've never in my life had to create a spreadsheet. > > >> programming (not VMS, > > My only other programming is web stuff which I can do on VMS, OSX or > Ubuntu. > > >>PIC microcontrollers), worktime reporting, invoicing my customers, > > Invoicing... QuickBooks on Mac OS X. > > >>image/picture manegement. Just about everyting else apart from > > There's only one app for that. As a photographer, I use Aperture. > > >>mangaging the VMS servers. Including the VPN Citrix client >>tools to be able to access my clients sites at all. >> >>This "VMS-only" idea is making VMS more harm then anything else. > > Who said VMS-only? Stop pushing the WEENDOZE only shit. > > -- > VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > > ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional > protection > no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. > (NJSC) > > Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article > outside > of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this > copyright > notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2008 13:29:56 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: <6lotukFd8o53U3@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= writes: >> >> A nice table-top front-end to your VMS servers, of course ! :-) > > VMS itself makes a better table-top front end. 8-) Why don't you try convincing HP of that? The 20 year old GUI they have leaves quite bit to be desired. Oh wait, you probably meant the VT100... bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2008 13:32:25 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Message-ID: <6lou39Fd8o53U4@mid.individual.net> In article , koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: > In article <6lms8pFd34alU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> >> Did you sleep thru the last two or three weeks here? We just went over >> this. Remember the thread about cut-and-paste for inputing PAKS? Hard >> to do on a terminal. > > Not hard o do on your other hobbyist system running DECwindows on > VMS, though is it. No other OS involved. You must have missed the part about this being the same problem recursively. How did you get the other system running VMS and DECwindows up without either a none VMS system with a GUI or back to trying to hand type the oh so readable PAKS by hand. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 10:03:18 -0400 From: "David Turner, islandco.com" Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Linux/XP Pro Message-ID: OK then... to satisfy those How about this Very quick NEW Island Datastore P2Duo Syhstems These have become very popular with our customers as we can still sell NEW XP Pro with these Intel P2CoreDuo 3Ghz Minitower ASUS Motherboard 2GB Memory (2 x 1GB DDR2) 512MB Nvidia Graphics 250GB SATAII Disk CD/DVDRW-DL On Board Gigabit Keytronic Heavy Duty Keyboard and Mouse (Old IBM Style) Total Per System $680 Add $140 for Windows XP Pro SP2+3 + SIMH (for VMS on PeeCee) Add $0 for Ubuntu 8.04 Add $159 for 17" Widescreen 1440x900 5ms Shipping within the US: $26 3 Year Warranty -- David B Turner ============================================= Island Computers US Corp PO Box 86 Tybee GA 31328 Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 Email: dturner@islandco.com International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 Fax: 912 786 8505 Web: www.islandco.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:11:41 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: PC Systems for sale Linux/XP Pro Message-ID: <00A81310.CFE258FA@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article , "David Turner, islandco.com" writes: >OK then... to satisfy those > >How about this > >Very quick > >NEW Island Datastore P2Duo Syhstems > >These have become very popular with our customers as we can still sell NEW >XP Pro with these > >Intel P2CoreDuo 3Ghz Minitower >ASUS Motherboard >2GB Memory (2 x 1GB DDR2) >512MB Nvidia Graphics >250GB SATAII Disk >CD/DVDRW-DL >On Board Gigabit >Keytronic Heavy Duty Keyboard and Mouse (Old IBM Style) > >Total Per System $680 > >Add $140 for Windows XP Pro SP2+3 + SIMH (for VMS on PeeCee) >Add $0 for Ubuntu 8.04 >Add $159 for 17" Widescreen 1440x900 5ms > >Shipping within the US: $26 > >3 Year Warranty I think you're gouging us on the Ubuntu price! :) :) :) -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC) Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. Publication of _this_ usenet article outside of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright notice, disclaimer and quotations. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Oct 2008 07:53:07 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Random: VMS inspired Dell managed switch? Message-ID: In article <6lmul7Fcu4vcU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > Could be because the box appears to be using something connected to > VxWorks5.5.1. Wasn't/isn't that an offshoot of VMS? If there is any influence from VMS on vxWorks, it seems to begin and end with thier support for RT-11 filesystems. Although vxWorks does date from a time where it would be very likely that it may have been originally developed on a VMS host. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 00:59:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Rob Subject: Re: Status of DECUS Canada ? Message-ID: <8394d0c6-880f-448c-b4a5-8b19d26b6058@1g2000prd.googlegroups.com> On Oct 15, 7:33=A0pm, "Brian" wrote: > Trywww.encompasscanada.com > > Brian > > "JF Mezei" wrote in message > > news:48ebe202$0$12411$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... > > > > > Does anyone have any information on the status of the user group > > formerly known as Decus Canada ? > > > I have not received anything from them in quite some time. Does anyone > > have AnneM's new email address since she moved back to Toronto ? > > > I heard that the USA group formerly known as DECUS USA seems to have > > been folded into the main Interex group and gotten yet another new name= . > > Has the same happened in Canada and the new group simply doesn't care > > about its Decus constituency ?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - The site looks a bit stale? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:00:15 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: strange disk states Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > That state wasn't possible back when I was messing with shadowing. You > > needed 2 or more full members to be in a merge state. It may be that > > they've updated shadowing in such a way that a copy target can be a source > > if reading from below the copy fence, otherwise no. If that is the case, > > the normal need for a merge would apply, and I don't know how they'd > > handle that. > > The shadow set in question has each member attached directly to (only) a > VAX running 7.3 (VAXstation 4000/90 and VAX 4000/100A). (The ALPHA is > running 7.3-2.) After the copy completed, both members went into the "merging" status. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 05:56:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Galen Subject: Re: strange disk states Message-ID: <4f6f6d15-9e58-49c8-83ac-4c27d921fcee@v28g2000hsv.googlegroups.com> > > P.S. I know who R. Daneel Steele > > That's R. Daneel Olivaw (in THE CAVES OF STEEL, among other books) > It looks like there was some confusion here with Danielle Steel, the writer :-) ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.559 ************************