INFO-VAX	Fri, 29 Aug 2008	Volume 2008 : Issue 472

   Contents:
Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1?
Re: Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1?
Re: Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1?
Re: Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1?
Re: Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1?
Re: Dat Files
Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS
Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS
NFS setup with TCPIP services, what causes share to not mount?
Re: NFS setup with TCPIP services, what causes share to not mount?
Re: OT: SYSMAN Equiv. on AIX?
Re: Putting my Vax in the network
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Re: rx2600s on eBay
Why is EDT?
Re: Why is EDT?
Re: Why is EDT?
Re: Why is EDT?
Re: Why is EDT?
Re: Why is EDT?
Re: [VMS V7/8] How to avoid filling sec audit with entries of BACKUP user? user?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:53:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: tadamsmar <tadamsmar@yahoo.com>
Subject: Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1?
Message-ID: <5bd7d4a4-6846-4b35-9765-8948b9db7d3d@25g2000prz.googlegroups.com>

Can you record DVDs or CDs using 7.2.1?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:00:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda)
Subject: Re: Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1?
Message-ID: <08082814005860_20202925@antinode.info>

From: tadamsmar <tadamsmar@yahoo.com>

> Can you record DVDs or CDs using 7.2.1?

   Perhaps, but that may depend on what "7.2.1" is, and/or what it runs
on, and/or what's connected to it how.

   Perhaps you could ask again, and include enough information for a
non-psychic to provide a useful and reliable answer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-info
   382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818
   Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:20:43 GMT
From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG
Subject: Re: Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1?
Message-ID: <00A7ECAA.1A43CFDF@SendSpamHere.ORG>

In article <5bd7d4a4-6846-4b35-9765-8948b9db7d3d@25g2000prz.googlegroups.com>, tadamsmar <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> writes:
>Can you record DVDs or CDs using 7.2.1?

Yes.

-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker      VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger.  Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
notice, disclaimer and quotations.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:40:46 -0400
From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1?
Message-ID: <1I-dnULpcbPfYivVnZ2dnUVZ_v_inZ2d@comcast.com>

tadamsmar wrote:
> Can you record DVDs or CDs using 7.2.1?

See:  http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:50:28 -0500
From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Can you record DVDs on 7.2.1?
Message-ID: <48B763F4.F394C87F@spam.comcast.net>

tadamsmar wrote:
> 
> Can you record DVDs or CDs using 7.2.1?

If you mean OpenVMS V7.2-1, then yes, I believe there is a version of
cdrecord somewhere that will run on that version with some CD-R
recorders. V7.2-1 pre-dates data DVDs a bit, I think.

D.J.D.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:47:58 -0500
From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Dat Files
Message-ID: <48B7635E.9D8C714B@spam.comcast.net>

Chico Che wrote:
> 
> I have an OpenVMS Alpah System that has RMS data files. I have a .dat file
> that if edited you can see clearly fixed length fields in there. The
> question I have where would I find the files that would tell me what field
> is what and the length of that field. So I can know the data structure of
> the dat file.

As others have pointed out, the actual data format in the files will be
defined by the programs which use them. So, you will likely need to
examine some source code.

That said, if a product called Datatrieve is installed, there may
already by definitions for those files in the Datatrieve dictionary.

See if you have a "DATA[TRIEVE]" verb (can be shortened to DATA,
obviously), or look at DIR SYS$SYSTEM:DTR* and see if anything gets
listed. That will tell you if Datatrieve is there. If it is, try to RUN
it.

The program development environment, if any, on the machine may include
the old CDD product (Common Data Dictionary) which provides a common
data format repository for programming language compilers as well as for
Datatrieve. I believe the program to seek is DMU ( DIR SYS$SYSTEM:DMU*),
but that may be wrong. It's been a while since I dealt with that one. If
you find it, poke around in its on-line HELP and see if you can figure
out how it works.

Hope this helps...

D.J.D.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:13:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: AEF <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS
Message-ID: <73013e92-a6ec-4838-aeb3-df3f0c109521@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 9:04 am, billg...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
> In article <9D02E14BC0A2AE43A5D16A4CD8EC5A593ED5E7F...@gvw1158exb.americas.hpqcorp.net>,
>         "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.M...@hp.com> writes:
>
>
>
> >  -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:billg...@cs.uofs.edu]
> >> Sent: August 27, 2008 8:09 AM
> >> To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com
> >> Subject: Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS
>
> >> In article <e2d88c1c-f70a-425e-a4b3-
> >> f5f688b73...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
> >>         Neil Rieck <n.ri...@sympatico.ca> writes:
> >> > On Aug 26, 6:44 am, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.M...@hp.com> wrote:
> >> > ...snip...
.
.
.
[...BLAH BLAH BLAH...]
.
.
.
[...]
>
> > Rather than be seen as hostile or have some OS religion against the existin=
> > g
> > environment, you simply be polite and label the existing system as "legacy"
> > which is a polite way of saying you do not like the existing system because
> > you have other preferences.
>
> > Sales people love the term "legacy" as it is a means to leverage new sales.
>
> Just one tool for salesdroids.  HP's lack of marketing of VMS does much
> more to help salesdroids eliminate it than anything else.
>
> And for those who might still think there is so much hidden VMS use in the
> government, In connection with my association with DISA I brought up the
> question about wether or not there was a need/desire to test or update the
> OpenVMS Security Readiness Review Evaluation Script as the current one on
> the webpage is dated Jan 28, 2005.  I was informed that there was no need
> to as the intent was to remove mention of it from the DISA Webpage.  Interpret
> that however you wish.
>
> bill
>
> --
> Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
> billg...@cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
> University of Scranton   |
> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>

\

To all participants in this thread:

I saw this movie! Though I *am* preparing my "Advantages of the EDT
editor" spiel. But it will be a while. And I have a partly new movie
in the works.

BTW, what is the origin of the name EDT? Is it a super-secret acronym,
or just an abbreviation of EDIT?

AEF

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:49:43 -0400
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Subject: Re: DEFCON 16 and Hacking OpenVMS
Message-ID: <48b755cf$0$9627$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

re: legacy

The real definition is that of an operating system whose portfolio of
applications is old and/or  lagging behind.

But there would be gray areas in there. Look at Tandem for instance. By
many metrics, it would be considered a legacy platform. Old style
transaction apps. No GUI, and probably not used much as a web server
etc. But its bank card apps are definitely still being developped and as
up-to-date as is possible.

VMS had a GUI, but the owners decided to drop it and it has definitely
become legacy because it is a very old version of X and Motif, and the
core applicatiosn are no longer being developped, and it lacks modern
versions of GTK, Firefox, Tunderbird etc.

VMS does have some modern apps. There are utilities such as curl that
are up-to-date on VMS. But others aren't because the new version require
middleware that is no longer being updated on VMS.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:55:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rich Jordan <jordan@ccs4vms.com>
Subject: NFS setup with TCPIP services, what causes share to not mount?
Message-ID: <d8667560-a4fb-4521-b615-ab47874e3210@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>

Seems like every time I have to play with NFS server on TCPIP services
we run into inane problems.

We're setting up a new system, replacing one that had been running
TCPware (which worked perfectly but was badly out of date); this one
has TCPIP services, VMS V8.3, TCPIP V5.6, all current ECOs because
thats what came with the new system...

The client is XP running the current Hummingbird client though we
never get to the point of actually trying to use it.

We're following the cookbook on setting up NFS shares that we used
before:

TCPIP> SHOW MAP       (yes these are also in the permanent config)

/ds1                           DSA1:
/ds3                           DSA3:

TCPIP> SHOW EXPORT

File system                              Host Name

/ds1/user/dave                           *
/ds3/files/ups                             *

TCPIP> SHOW PROXY

VMS Username  Type     User_ID   Group_ID    Host_name

MAINT               OND      121          120               *


The MAINT account UIC is [120,121]   and is the owner of the actual
files and directories being shared.

Only the 'ups' share is being produced and showing up on the client.
On NFS startup we get the following error (via OPCOM, excess verbiage
clipped); I do not know if the NFS memory message is problematic or
not so included it:

Message from user TCPIP$NFS on NODE
NFS memory (000B4000) at system virtual FFFFFFFF67456000, user virtual
00000000003EE000
...
%TCPIP-E-NFS_BFSCAL, operation MOUNT_POINT failed on file /ds1/user/
dave
...
%TCPIP-E-MAPNOSYS, file system is not mapped

The log file TCPIP$MOUNTD_node.LOG shows the following error:

28-Aug-2008 17:47:52 ERROR: stat: no such file or directory, Cannot
stat /DS1/USER/DAVE

The case of the export in this logfile matches the case of our map and
export names, however they were set in testing.

DSA1 and DSA3 are shadow disks mounted clusterwide on a 2 node
cluster.  They are identical in all aspects except that DSA1 is ODS5
and DSA3 is still ODS2.  Drive names and the paths to the exports have
been verified ad nauseum.  The directory DSA1:[USER.DAVE] exists, as
does DSA3:[OE3.FILES.UPS]

There are no logicals of the same name or form as 'ds1' and 'ds3' map
names.

The directory path on the ODS5 disk is all upper case.  We tried
setting the export path to upper case, and also with the /
opt=case_sensitive, both with a lowercase '/ds1' and uppercase '/DS1',
and any other variant we could think of.  We also set protections on
that directory to W:RWE temporarily just in case.

We've cleaned the config and rebuilt from scratch twice.  Other than
having two exports instead of one this is identical to a location
where we currently have TCPIP Services V5.4 on an older VMS version
running, with Hummingbird client, with no problem for years.

Any thoughts?  We just gave up getting Samba to work on these systems;
the customer's third party programs (no source) were unable to
properly handle files shared via Samba (but had worked with the older
TCPware NFS shares for years).

Thanks

Rich

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:06:40 -0400
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Subject: Re: NFS setup with TCPIP services, what causes share to not mount?
Message-ID: <48b759d3$0$12406$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>

Rich Jordan wrote:

> /ds1/user/dave                           *
> /ds3/files/ups                             *

> Any thoughts?  

Start by enabling read-write for world on ds1:[000000]000000.dir as well
as ds1:[000000]user.dir

See if it makes a difference. (then set it back to what it was before).

Also, make sure that the protection of the mount point file on the
client system is setup properly.

If I remember correctly, the NFS server on VMS doesn't honour ACLs.  Not
100% sure of it though.

I was told that file protections are often the cause of NFS headaches,
and it was by fixing them that I got my setup between a mac and VMS working.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:24:53 -0500
From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>
Subject: Re: OT: SYSMAN Equiv. on AIX?
Message-ID: <48B75DF4.BF508E56@spam.comcast.net>

"Steven M. Schweda" wrote:
> 
> From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>
> 
> > Is anyone aware of a SYSMAN-like utility for AIX? I need to be able to
> > execute the same command on multiple LPARs, HACMP not withstanding.
> 
>    Don't know aboit the multiple hosts part, but SMIT was the handy tool
> for system management when I was young.  (Sure miss the SMIT dude
> falling on his face when a command failed.)

Well, SMIT(TY) is whole different critter from SYSMAN. SMIT(TY) is a
screen-oriented interface to various system management task, but AFAIK
does not provide for operations within a group of nodes or a cluster.
SMITTY is the character-cell version. SMIT is the X version, but
defaults to SMITTY if X is not setup in the process environment or
otherwise not available.

>    There is an AIX forum somewhere at ibm.com.  Search the ITRC HP-UX
> forum for AIX.

There's comp.unix.aix, also. Fairly active, low S/N ratio.

> > Any ideas anyone has would be useful.
> 
>    Optimistic or just confused?

Desperate is more like it...

D.J.D.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:28:54 -0500
From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Putting my Vax in the network
Message-ID: <48B75EE6.42E7C335@spam.comcast.net>

apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Hi:
> Can you tell me how put my Vax 4100 in my network?
> I made a reboot in this system but I´m getting this message:
> 
> vax01> set host vax02
> 
> %SYSTEM-F-UNREACHABLE, remote node is not currently reachable

O.k. - dumb question time:

Did you add the startup of the network to the machine's startup
procedure?
 
It's not there by default in most VMS versions prior to V7.3 or possibly
even before V8.2. Dunno - I'm losing touch with some of the finer points
as I'm being sucked deeper into the UN*X world (which REALLY sucks!).

D.J.D.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:12:30 -0700
From: Malcolm Dunnett <nothome@spammers.are.scum>
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <fUBtk.11356$Ks1.4802@newsfe02.iad>

David wrote:
> What happens when it dies after 45 days? Just chuck it away and get another 
> one?

   Sure, why not. At that price you could buy several spare boxes for 
the price of a system with a warranty. :-). Or one could put them on 
maintenance with HP if that is a concern.

   As I said, caveat emptor, but I suspect these boxes would be solid 
systems that would provide years of reliable service (that's been my 
experience so far with the rx2600/zx6000s I've bought on eBay).

> 
> I am thinking about buying a few racks of these then offering them with 
> disks and graphics etc.
> Maybe even preinstall VMS on them too.
> But we would have to charge considerably more to include a 12 mth warranty 
> etc.

  There may be a market for systems with a longer warranty and of course 
one would expect to pay for that guarantee.

> And... the most important question.. how many people out there want an 
> Itanium?
> 
    Don't know - let's see how many people buy one of these.

    Personally I don't know why one wouldn't want an Itanium. The ones I 
have work just great - the rx2600s typically outperforms my ES40s and 
use a lot less rack space and power. I have a box similar to these ones 
that makes a pretty sweet Oracle server.

    I haven't done a lot of porting of my apps yet, but with the testing 
I've done so far it's been pretty painless.

    If you have some critical version dependent code or an app without 
sources that the vendor won't support on Itanium or need for VAX 
Floating Point or specialized hardware I can see sticking with VAX or 
Alpha - but if you have your own code or you're a hobbyist I'd go for an 
Itanium (especially if you compare the specs on one of these systems to 
what a DS10 or DS20 is going for).

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:40:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: FrankS <sapienza@noesys.com>
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <ff400ea4-f7d7-4bf5-9613-cb4985bb8558@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 1:40=A0pm, "David" <dtur...@islandco.com> wrote:
> What happens when it dies after 45 days? Just chuck it away and get anoth=
er
> one?

I understand you're in the business of selling systems, so bad-
mouthing any other source is part of the job description.  However,
I've had really good experience with buying systems and/or components
from eBay.  Yes, I had a power supply on a DS10L go but it happened
shortly after a power failure and I don't think it was plugged in to
the battery at the time.  And yes, I have spare DS10Ls (two of them)
that I bought at under $150 each on eBay so "chuck it away and get
another" is an option.

Looking at the bidding history two of these rx2600s had no bidders at
all.  So, presumably, you could have bought one at $199.95 +
shipping.  I paid over $600 for one of them (compared to the $1800+ it
would have cost me through HP/DSPP, it was a bargain), so yeah I would
have bought two at the $199.95 if I had known there were 50 more
coming up for sale.

> And... the most important question.. how many people out there want an
> Itanium?

Obviously I did.  The guys that found the SMGRTL bug might want one or
two if they're cheap enough.

In my case it's a business expense since I make a living on OpenVMS.
I do have one utility application (a PDF writer) that I want to port.
My system will also be a test bed to do a "proof of concept" to
convince a client to move their stuff off Alpha.

And it looks like at least a half-dozen have sold already.  The one I
bought drew 6 other bids besides mine (gotta love eSnipe).  We'll see
from how many of the 50 sell whether there's a lot of demand.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:54:09 GMT
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?=
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <lvCtk.1886$U5.1299@newsb.telia.net>

FrankS wrote:

> I do have one utility application (a PDF writer)...

Any link to that PDF writer ?

> (gotta love eSnipe).

I always use www.bidnip.com when "bidding" on
non-BuyItNow items on eBay.
125 successfull "snipes" so far.

Well, I'd better ask the seller about "overseas"
shipping. At $199 I could spend some extra on
shipping...

Jan-Erik.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:04:39 GMT
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?=
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <bFCtk.1887$U5.1273@newsb.telia.net>

The actual seller have two different images
in his auctions. Has anyone seen any difference
in the actual specs of the boxes ? Maybe it's
just two different images and nothing else...

I have seen that *one* auction is specified
as "2GB" instead of "10GB".

B.t.w, one sold @ $455 just a few minutes ago.

Jan-Erik.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:18:33 -0700
From: Joe Bloggs <JBloggs@acme.com>
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <pcudb4l0u3dp37rutgor88gr2l88b278lj@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:49:57 -0700 (PDT), FrankS <sapienza@noesys.com>
wrote:


>I don't know the vendor either, but I did buy one of these servers
>from them (unfortunately for me, I paid more than $500 because they
>didn't add on the Buy-It-Now until recently).  They do a fantastic job
>of packaging and shipping.  The server was in a box with that rigid
>foam sprayed-in to keep it from shifting, then the box was strapped to
>a pallet and shipped by a freight service.

is the 10GB cited in the auction accurate?

i was expecting a bare-bones box, to have the minimum amount of memory
installed. 

per the quick-specs, max is 24GB. 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:19:02 GMT
From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <00A7ECA9.DD8C0899@SendSpamHere.ORG>

In article <fUBtk.11356$Ks1.4802@newsfe02.iad>, Malcolm Dunnett <nothome@spammers.are.scum> writes:
>David wrote:
>> What happens when it dies after 45 days? Just chuck it away and get another 
>> one?
>
>   Sure, why not. At that price you could buy several spare boxes for 
>the price of a system with a warranty. :-). Or one could put them on 
>maintenance with HP if that is a concern.

Like the one I got via the Intel 3 day porting seminar?  It's become a
parts carcass for the one that is still lumbering along.

-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker      VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger.  Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
notice, disclaimer and quotations.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:01:51 -0400
From: "John Reagan" <johnrreagan@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <4MqdnfN4JqayjyrVnZ2dnUVZ_qDinZ2d@earthlink.com>

"Malcolm Dunnett" <nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote in message 
news:Uxotk.11168$Ks1.9793@newsfe02.iad...
> If any of you hobbyists (or others) want to run an Itanium VMS system go 
> to eBay and enter 200249647480 into the search box (rx2600 Dual 1.5 CPUs 
> 10GB memory, no disks). Should make a pretty sweet VMS server.

The text in the listing says no optical drive, but it looks like there is a 
CD drive in the unit (I see the cable on the back of it).

John 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:16:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Len Whitwer <len@psds.com>
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <41985b3a-4ee5-451a-aa4c-85a555672871@1g2000pre.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 12:19=A0pm, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> In article <fUBtk.11356$Ks1.4...@newsfe02.iad>, Malcolm Dunnett <noth...@=
spammers.are.scum> writes:
> >David wrote:
> >> What happens when it dies after 45 days? Just chuck it away and get an=
other
> >> one?
>
> > =A0 Sure, why not. At that price you could buy several spare boxes for
> >the price of a system with a warranty. :-). Or one could put them on
> >maintenance with HP if that is a concern.
>
> Like the one I got via the Intel 3 day porting seminar? =A0It's become a
> parts carcass for the one that is still lumbering along.
>
> --
> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker =A0 =A0 =A0VAXman(at)TME=
SIS(dot)COM
>
> ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional prote=
ction
> no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (=
NJSC)
>
> Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. =A0Publication of _this_ usenet article =
outside
> of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copy=
right
> notice, disclaimer and quotations.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------------------

rx 2600's for sale!!!!!!! Puget Sound Data Systems, Inc

We have just bought 25 of these units and will be offering them to
anyone who wants one. We will be testing them as soon as they
arrive (About 1 week) and they will be available for sale. We will
be putting a one year warranty on them to protect the buyer. Pricing
will depend on the final configuration desired.

We can pre-load VMS, Linux or HP-UX as per buyers request. Or
the machine can be bought with no software. (Contact us on how
to get the licenses for free)

Please call or e-mail me if you have any questions.

Len Whitwer

-Len Whitwer
Puget Sound Data Systems, Inc.
19501 144th Ave. NE Suite D-100
Woodinville, WA  98072
e-mail    mailto:len@psds.com
Internet: http://www.psds.com
Toll Free: (866)857-0710
Tel: (425) 488-0710
Fax: (425) 488-6414

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:25:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: FrankS <sapienza@noesys.com>
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <141e6f1c-9d90-4831-899b-42ecf59bc665@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 5:01=A0pm, "John Reagan" <johnrrea...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> The text in the listing says no optical drive, but it looks like there is=
 a
> CD drive in the unit (I see the cable on the back of it).

Looks can be deceiving.  The unit I received from this eBay seller
does not include a DVD drive.

The cable is there, and it lays against a filler plate.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:26:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: FrankS <sapienza@noesys.com>
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <f32e39c3-5d4b-482d-be89-7163e96f9edd@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 3:18=A0pm, Joe Bloggs <JBlo...@acme.com> wrote:
> is the 10GB cited in the auction accurate?

Yes.

The unit I received has four 512mb memory modules, and eight 1gb
modules.  Total of 10gb.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:28:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: FrankS <sapienza@noesys.com>
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <37c79328-6cdb-4351-8b77-cc52456ec4f8@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 2:54=A0pm, Jan-Erik S=F6derholm <jan-erik.soderh...@telia.com>
wrote:
> Any link to that PDF writer ?

Coming soon.  I have some cleaning up to do; error trapping and such.
The native Alpha version is being used daily at a client site, so it's
stable.

It is only to convert plain text to PDF.  No images or fancy fonts at
this time.  Maybe some later version, if I can make the time.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:51:12 GMT
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?=
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <k5Ftk.1889$U5.1202@newsb.telia.net>

Len Whitwer wrote:

> rx 2600's for sale!!!!!!! Puget Sound Data Systems, Inc
> 
> We have just bought 25 of these units and will be offering them to
> anyone who wants one.

Does "anyone" include someone in Sweden ?

> Pricing
> will depend on the final configuration desired.

Lets say, as in the auction ?

Jan-Erik.

> 
> We can pre-load VMS, Linux or HP-UX as per buyers request. Or
> the machine can be bought with no software. (Contact us on how
> to get the licenses for free)
> 
> Please call or e-mail me if you have any questions.
> 
> Len Whitwer
> 
> -Len Whitwer
> Puget Sound Data Systems, Inc.
> 19501 144th Ave. NE Suite D-100
> Woodinville, WA  98072
> e-mail    mailto:len@psds.com
> Internet: http://www.psds.com
> Toll Free: (866)857-0710
> Tel: (425) 488-0710
> Fax: (425) 488-6414

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:50:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda)
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <08082816504800_20202925@antinode.info>

From: Len Whitwer <len@psds.com>

> We have just bought 25 of these units and will be offering them to
> anyone who wants one.  [...]

   Sounds good.  I can go pick one up, avoiding the shipping, if you
want to arrange that.

> [...] and they will be available for sale. [...]

   Oh.  You want _money_.  Never mind.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Steven M. Schweda               sms@antinode-info
   382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 651-699-9818
   Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:09:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Len Whitwer <len@psds.com>
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <1a20b8e5-c12b-476a-b047-b7b41b58bb03@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com>

On Aug 28, 2:51=A0pm, Jan-Erik S=F6derholm <jan-erik.soderh...@telia.com>
wrote:
> Len Whitwer wrote:
> > rx 2600's for sale!!!!!!! Puget Sound Data Systems, Inc
>
> > We have just bought 25 of these units and will be offering them to
> > anyone who wants one.
>
> Does "anyone" include someone in Sweden ?
>
> > Pricing
> > will depend on the final configuration desired.
>
> Lets say, as in the auction ?
>
> Jan-Erik.
>
>
>
>
>
> > We can pre-load VMS, Linux or HP-UX as per buyers request. Or
> > the machine can be bought with no software. (Contact us on how
> > to get the licenses for free)
>
> > Please call or e-mail me if you have any questions.
>
> > Len Whitwer
>
> > -Len Whitwer
> > Puget Sound Data Systems, Inc.
> > 19501 144th Ave. NE Suite D-100
> > Woodinville, WA =A098072
> > e-mail =A0 =A0mailto:l...@psds.com
> > Internet:http://www.psds.com
> > Toll Free: (866)857-0710
> > Tel: (425) 488-0710
> > Fax: (425) 488-6414- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

YES!!!!   We will ship to Sweden!!

-Len Whitwer

-Len Whitwer
Puget Sound Data Systems, Inc.
19501 144th Ave. NE Suite D-100
Woodinville, WA  98072
e-mail    mailto:len@psds.com
Internet: http://www.psds.com
Toll Free: (866)857-0710
Tel: (425) 488-0710
Fax: (425) 488-6414

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:23:54 GMT
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?=
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <_zFtk.1890$U5.1214@newsb.telia.net>

On Aug 28, 5:01 pm, "John Reagan" <johnrrea...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> The text in the listing says no optical drive, but it looks like there is a
> CD drive in the unit (I see the cable on the back of it).

The actual description in the auctions says
"Optical Drive(s) : No" for some auctions and
"Optical Drive(s) : DVD-ROM" for others.

I guess it's up to the bidder to decide which one
to bid on...

Jan-Erik.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:26:30 GMT
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?=
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <qCFtk.1892$U5.1295@newsb.telia.net>

FrankS wrote:
> On Aug 28, 2:54 pm, Jan-Erik Söderholm <jan-erik.soderh...@telia.com>
> wrote:
>> Any link to that PDF writer ?
> 
> Coming soon.  I have some cleaning up to do; error trapping and such.
> The native Alpha version is being used daily at a client site, so it's
> stable.
> 
> It is only to convert plain text to PDF.  No images or fancy fonts at
> this time.  Maybe some later version, if I can make the time.
> 
> 

Oh, sorry. I ment the Alpha version...

Jan-Erik.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:59:44 -0400
From: "David Turner" <dturner@islandco.com>
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <gPHtk.18443$XT1.6813@bignews5.bellsouth.net>

Hang on a second...
I am not bad mouthing them.
I talked to them this morning because I am interested myself.
I was just curious of the mentality of people that buy things like this on 
Ebay.
Some companies allow their IT people to buy on Ebay and many don't. Many IT 
pros have to justify their purchases.

If anything we lose business when asked if a competitor is OK. Most of the 
people we deal with and compete with ARE reputable and I would NEVER EVER 
EVER say otherwise.
I do not appreciate the insinuation that we have ever bad mouthed ANYONE!!!

David

"FrankS" <sapienza@noesys.com> wrote in message 
news:ff400ea4-f7d7-4bf5-9613-cb4985bb8558@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 28, 1:40 pm, "David" <dtur...@islandco.com> wrote:
> What happens when it dies after 45 days? Just chuck it away and get 
> another
> one?

I understand you're in the business of selling systems, so bad-
mouthing any other source is part of the job description.  However,
I've had really good experience with buying systems and/or components
from eBay.  Yes, I had a power supply on a DS10L go but it happened
shortly after a power failure and I don't think it was plugged in to
the battery at the time.  And yes, I have spare DS10Ls (two of them)
that I bought at under $150 each on eBay so "chuck it away and get
another" is an option.

Looking at the bidding history two of these rx2600s had no bidders at
all.  So, presumably, you could have bought one at $199.95 +
shipping.  I paid over $600 for one of them (compared to the $1800+ it
would have cost me through HP/DSPP, it was a bargain), so yeah I would
have bought two at the $199.95 if I had known there were 50 more
coming up for sale.

> And... the most important question.. how many people out there want an
> Itanium?

Obviously I did.  The guys that found the SMGRTL bug might want one or
two if they're cheap enough.

In my case it's a business expense since I make a living on OpenVMS.
I do have one utility application (a PDF writer) that I want to port.
My system will also be a test bed to do a "proof of concept" to
convince a client to move their stuff off Alpha.

And it looks like at least a half-dozen have sold already.  The one I
bought drew 6 other bids besides mine (gotta love eSnipe).  We'll see
from how many of the 50 sell whether there's a lot of demand. 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:17:17 -0400
From: "William Webb" <william.w.webb@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <8660a3a10808281817w4ef6bf00r179b2dbd35705cd9@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 2:12 PM, Malcolm Dunnett
<nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote:
> David wrote:
>>
>> What happens when it dies after 45 days? Just chuck it away and get
>> another one?
>
>  Sure, why not. At that price you could buy several spare boxes for the
> price of a system with a warranty. :-). Or one could put them on maintenance
> with HP if that is a concern.
>
>  As I said, caveat emptor, but I suspect these boxes would be solid systems
> that would provide years of reliable service (that's been my experience so
> far with the rx2600/zx6000s I've bought on eBay).
>
>>
>> I am thinking about buying a few racks of these then offering them with
>> disks and graphics etc.
>> Maybe even preinstall VMS on them too.
>> But we would have to charge considerably more to include a 12 mth warranty
>> etc.
>
>  There may be a market for systems with a longer warranty and of course one
> would expect to pay for that guarantee.
>
>> And... the most important question.. how many people out there want an
>> Itanium?
>>
>   Don't know - let's see how many people buy one of these.
>
>   Personally I don't know why one wouldn't want an Itanium. The ones I have
> work just great - the rx2600s typically outperforms my ES40s and use a lot
> less rack space and power. I have a box similar to these ones that makes a
> pretty sweet Oracle server.
>
>   I haven't done a lot of porting of my apps yet, but with the testing I've
> done so far it's been pretty painless.
>
>   If you have some critical version dependent code or an app without sources
> that the vendor won't support on Itanium or need for VAX Floating Point or
> specialized hardware I can see sticking with VAX or Alpha - but if you have
> your own code or you're a hobbyist I'd go for an Itanium (especially if you
> compare the specs on one of these systems to what a DS10 or DS20 is going
> for).
>

I took four developers to one of the HP Alpha to Integrity porting
workshops;  one of the guys had an application written in FORTRAN.

It seems that there was a syntax change in one particular command I
don't know if it was a FORTRAN77 vs. 90 thing or not- and, in a
nutshell, he pulled up his source in TPU, made a global change, saved,
linked compiled, and was done.

WWWebb

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:29:30 -0400
From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <2fudnalh1OtjzSrVnZ2dnUVZ_q_inZ2d@comcast.com>

David Turner wrote:
> Hang on a second...
> I am not bad mouthing them.
> I talked to them this morning because I am interested myself.
> I was just curious of the mentality of people that buy things like this on 
> Ebay.
> Some companies allow their IT people to buy on Ebay and many don't. Many IT 
> pros have to justify their purchases.
> 

I used to buy on e-Bay for my company. Somebody was dumping stuff on the 
  market and I was able to get blue StorageWork Shelves for $20 or $30 
each.  I picked up some 9 GB drives at a pretty good price.  Paid for it 
with the company credit card.  If you can:
a. trust the people you are dealing with, and
b. get stuff at or below list
it's the right thing to do.

We had to stop because Pay-Pal said they had to have access to the 
company bank account which we, of course, were not authorized to give them.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 02:53:44 GMT
From:   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG
Subject: Re: rx2600s on eBay
Message-ID: <00A7ECE9.63013B57@SendSpamHere.ORG>

In article <41985b3a-4ee5-451a-aa4c-85a555672871@1g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, Len Whitwer <len@psds.com> writes:
>On Aug 28, 12:19=A0pm, VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>> In article <fUBtk.11356$Ks1.4...@newsfe02.iad>, Malcolm Dunnett <noth...@=
>spammers.are.scum> writes:
>> >David wrote:
>> >> What happens when it dies after 45 days? Just chuck it away and get an=
>other
>> >> one?
>>
>> > =A0 Sure, why not. At that price you could buy several spare boxes for
>> >the price of a system with a warranty. :-). Or one could put them on
>> >maintenance with HP if that is a concern.
>>
>> Like the one I got via the Intel 3 day porting seminar? =A0It's become a
>> parts carcass for the one that is still lumbering along.
>>
>> --
>> VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker =A0 =A0 =A0VAXman(at)TME=
>SIS(dot)COM
>>
>> ... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional prote=
>ction
>> no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (=
>NJSC)
>>
>> Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger. =A0Publication of _this_ usenet article =
>outside
>> of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copy=
>right
>> notice, disclaimer and quotations.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
>-----------------------------------
>
>rx 2600's for sale!!!!!!! Puget Sound Data Systems, Inc
>
>We have just bought 25 of these units and will be offering them to
>anyone who wants one. We will be testing them as soon as they
>arrive (About 1 week) and they will be available for sale. We will
>be putting a one year warranty on them to protect the buyer. Pricing
>will depend on the final configuration desired.
>
>We can pre-load VMS, Linux or HP-UX as per buyers request. Or
>the machine can be bought with no software. (Contact us on how
>to get the licenses for free)
>
>Please call or e-mail me if you have any questions.
>
>Len Whitwer

What about rack mounting kit? :roll:

-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker      VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

... pejorative statements of opinion are entitled to constitutional protection
no matter how extreme, vituperous, or vigorously expressed they may be. (NJSC)

Copr. 2008 Brian Schenkenberger.  Publication of _this_ usenet article outside
of usenet _must_ include its contents in its entirety including this copyright
notice, disclaimer and quotations.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:41:04 GMT
From: Rob Brown <mylastname@gmcl.com>
Subject: Why is EDT?
Message-ID: <alpine.LRH.1.00.0808281236040.16973@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, AEF wrote:

> BTW, what is the origin of the name EDT? Is it a super-secret 
> acronym, or just an abbreviation of EDIT?

EDI was already taken?

If EDT on RSX came before or was concurrent with EDT on VMS then that
is a plausible explanation.

In RSX, specially installed tasks with <names exactly three letters 
long> became "commands" so you did not have to preface the line with 
RUN (longer explanation available).  There was already an editor 
called EDI.

My 2 cents.


-- 

Rob Brown                        b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m
G. Michaels Consulting Ltd.      (780)438-9343 (voice)
Edmonton                         (780)437-3367 (FAX)
                                  http://gmcl.com/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:19:53 -0400
From: John Sauter <John_Sauter@systemeyescomputerstore.com>
Subject: Re: Why is EDT?
Message-ID: <HdadnXXzn9LniyrVnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@comcast.com>

Rob Brown wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, AEF wrote:
> 
>> BTW, what is the origin of the name EDT? Is it a super-secret acronym, 
>> or just an abbreviation of EDIT?
> 
> EDI was already taken?
> 
> If EDT on RSX came before or was concurrent with EDT on VMS then that
> is a plausible explanation.
> 
> In RSX, specially installed tasks with <names exactly three letters 
> long> became "commands" so you did not have to preface the line with RUN 
> (longer explanation available).  There was already an editor called EDI.
> 
> My 2 cents.
> 
> 
EDT was written in the early 1980s, targeted at both RSX-11M and
VAX/VMS.  Your explanation of the name is plausable, but I don't have
any independent confirmation of it.

I was the project leader for EDT version 3.
     John Sauter (John_Sauter@systemeyescomputerstore.com)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:25:51 -0400
From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Why is EDT?
Message-ID: <bqSdnaRAuv1-iirVnZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@comcast.com>

John Sauter wrote:
> Rob Brown wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, AEF wrote:
>>
>>> BTW, what is the origin of the name EDT? Is it a super-secret 
>>> acronym, or just an abbreviation of EDIT?
>>
>> EDI was already taken?
>>
>> If EDT on RSX came before or was concurrent with EDT on VMS then that
>> is a plausible explanation.
>>
>> In RSX, specially installed tasks with <names exactly three letters 
>> long> became "commands" so you did not have to preface the line with 
>> RUN (longer explanation available).  There was already an editor 
>> called EDI.
>>
>> My 2 cents.
>>
>>
> EDT was written in the early 1980s, targeted at both RSX-11M and
> VAX/VMS.  Your explanation of the name is plausable, but I don't have
> any independent confirmation of it.
> 
> I was the project leader for EDT version 3.
>     John Sauter (John_Sauter@systemeyescomputerstore.com)

Permit me to congratulate you on a good job.  EDT was my editor of 
choice throughout my VMS career!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:25:34 GMT
From: =?UTF-8?B?SmFuLUVyaWsgU8O2ZGVyaG9sbQ==?=
Subject: Re: Why is EDT?
Message-ID: <yBFtk.1891$U5.1297@newsb.telia.net>

Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
> John Sauter wrote:
>> I was the project leader for EDT version 3.
>>     John Sauter (John_Sauter@systemeyescomputerstore.com)
> 
> Permit me to congratulate you on a good job.  EDT was my editor of 
> choice throughout my VMS career!
> 
> 

EDT *is* my editor of choice.
Still is since my RSX times in early 80's.

Jan-Erik.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:46:07 -0600
From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>
Subject: Re: Why is EDT?
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20080828164544.01cd5c00@raptor.psccos.com>

At 04:25 PM 8/28/2008, Jan-Erik S=C3=B6derholm wrote:
>Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
>>John Sauter wrote:
>>>I was the project leader for EDT version 3.
>>>     John Sauter (John_Sauter@systemeyescomputerstore.com)
>>Permit me to congratulate you on a good job.  EDT was my editor of choice=
=20
>>throughout my VMS career!
>
>EDT *is* my editor of choice.
>Still is since my RSX times in early 80's.

..or my RSTS times in the 70's...

------
+-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
| Dan O'Reilly                  |  "There are 10 types of people in this |
| Principal Engineer            |   world: those who understand binary   |
| Process Software              |   and those who don't."                |
| http://www.process.com        |                                        |
+-------------------------------+----------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:03:25 -0400
From: John Sauter <John_Sauter@systemeyescomputerstore.com>
Subject: Re: Why is EDT?
Message-ID: <W7CdnWTVC9tToSrVnZ2dnUVZ_rvinZ2d@comcast.com>

Dan O'Reilly wrote:
> At 04:25 PM 8/28/2008, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
>>> John Sauter wrote:
>>>> I was the project leader for EDT version 3.
>>>>     John Sauter (John_Sauter@systemeyescomputerstore.com)
>>> Permit me to congratulate you on a good job.  EDT was my editor of 
>>> choice throughout my VMS career!
>>
>> EDT *is* my editor of choice.
>> Still is since my RSX times in early 80's.
> 
> ...or my RSTS times in the 70's...

Thank you for the complements.  I neglected RSTS/E: EDT was also
initially targeted for it.  For version 3 we developed an automated QA
system to verify that fixed bugs did not recur.  Because the QA system
was fully automatic we ran it after each nightly build, and the first
priority each morning was to fix any bugs that it turned up.

I am currently looking for a job, and my preference is to develop an
automated QA system.  Is there anybody here looking for a QA developer
in southern New Hampshire?
     John Sauter (John_Sauter@systemeyescomputerstore.com)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:39:57 -0500
From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [VMS V7/8] How to avoid filling sec audit with entries of BACKUP user? user?
Message-ID: <48B7617D.CFDC1D33@spam.comcast.net>

Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote:
> 
> Is there a (simple) way to avoid having the security audit file filled up
> by security messages of the backup account using its BYPASS/READALL priv?
> 
> That means, we want to see all the accesses on the system
> 
>   FILE access:
>     Failure:     read,write,execute,delete,control
>     SYSPRV:      read,write,execute,delete,control
>     BYPASS:      read,write,execute,delete,control
>     READALL:     read,write,execute,delete,control
> 
> but not for this particular user (which makes 20-40% of the audit file)...
> 
> *) Sticking UIC below MAXSYSGROUP would not make a difference, would it?
> *) UAF /Flag=NoAudit is not overwriting Audit settings (as /FLAG=Audit is)
> *) Sticking an ACL for the Backup account on *every* file is out of scope.
> *) Filtering the security file afterwards /SELECT= is out of scope, too.
> 
> What did I miss?

I know you said, "Sticking an ACL for the Backup account on *every* file
is out of scope"; however, remember that you can add that to the default
ACEs on every top-level directory in every effected tree and then SET
SECURITY/DEFAULT [topdir...]*.*;* to propagate that down each tree. So,
its not THAT big a deal, as compared to scripting SET SECURITY commands
to set ACEs on every file. The default ACEs get propagated to all new
files, as well.

Something to consider.

Also, have you tried filtering ANAL/AUDIT using /IGNORE=USERNAME=BACKUP?

D.J.D.

------------------------------

End of INFO-VAX 2008.472
************************