INFO-VAX Fri, 11 Jul 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 384 Contents: Re: Another new VMS system. Re: Changes to the freeware web site Re: Changes to the freeware web site Re: MTH$ RTL documentation Re: MTH$ RTL documentation Re: MTH$ vs. MATH$ Re: Quasi-push technologies (was: Re: Another new VMS system.) Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 06:39:40 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Another new VMS system. Message-ID: Hi, > have an OpenVMS disaster-tolerant cluster at their core. Does anyone know if their Rdb database(s) on OM-click (or other) are "open" across more than one node in the cluster at a time? And if so, if they are being actively accessed on all nodes simultaneously? Just curious as to wether or not they use active-active disaster-tolerant clusters (that rule out that bollocks row-cache :-) or they have some sort of UNIX-esque failover capability instead. Cheers Richard Maher "Keith Parris" wrote in message news:g50rmh$ajr$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com... > Michael Austin wrote: > > I find no information (in google...) that describes the actual platform > > this runs on... I cannot even find anything on Quest-ST - do you have a > > source that describes the platform? > > The key phrase is "a Nasdaq OMX trading engine." OMX-based exchanges > have an OpenVMS disaster-tolerant cluster at their core. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:21:45 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Changes to the freeware web site Message-ID: <4876533c$0$1806$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> >> > >ftp://mvb.saic.com/freewarev40/ >> > >ftp://mvb.saic.com/freewarev50/ >> > >ftp://mvb.saic.com/freewarev60/ >> > >ftp://mvb.saic.com/freewarev70/ >> > >ftp://mvb.saic.com/freewarev80/ I tried to: cd freewarev80 mget imagemagick-2_6_8/* and it FTP> mget imagemagick-6_2_8/* 552 RMS-E-FNF, file not found, [.IMAGEMAGICK-6_2_8]*$7B %TCPIP-E-FTP_NOSUCHFILE, no such file imagemagick-6_2_8/* I assume this is an ODS-5 issue. I have seen this with my VAX trying to access an ODS-5 disk. (for instance, if an "ods5" file was created in the web server's main directory, then OSU will fail with 404s when trying to load the home page because it seems to do a directory search of the directory to find index.html and that fails because of a file that VAX-VMS doesn't understand. In any event, I had started to download that gigabyte file and ended up extracting it from it when it finished downloading, only to find that it won't compile. It appears another web page as a imagemagick distribution with executables, hopefully that might work better. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 15:10:48 -0400 From: sol gongola Subject: Re: Changes to the freeware web site Message-ID: <48765ebf$0$11597$607ed4bc@cv.net> JF Mezei wrote: >>>>> ftp://mvb.saic.com/freewarev40/ >>>>> ftp://mvb.saic.com/freewarev50/ >>>>> ftp://mvb.saic.com/freewarev60/ >>>>> ftp://mvb.saic.com/freewarev70/ >>>>> ftp://mvb.saic.com/freewarev80/ > > > I tried to: > > cd freewarev80 > mget imagemagick-2_6_8/* > > and it > FTP> mget imagemagick-6_2_8/* > 552 RMS-E-FNF, file not found, [.IMAGEMAGICK-6_2_8]*$7B > %TCPIP-E-FTP_NOSUCHFILE, no such file imagemagick-6_2_8/* > > I assume this is an ODS-5 issue. I have seen this with my VAX trying to > access an ODS-5 disk. (for instance, if an "ods5" file was created in > the web server's main directory, then OSU will fail with 404s when > trying to load the home page because it seems to do a directory search > of the directory to find index.html and that fails because of a file > that VAX-VMS doesn't understand. > > In any event, I had started to download that gigabyte file and ended up > extracting it from it when it finished downloading, only to find that it > won't compile. It appears another web page as a imagemagick distribution > with executables, hopefully that might work better. ftp mget get files in a directory but doesn't go into sub directories. WGET allows you to recurse in to directories. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 06:23:23 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: MTH$ RTL documentation Message-ID: Thanks but not what I'm looking for. "R.A.Omond" wrote in message news:4875fd95$0$90272$14726298@news.sunsite.dk... > Richard Maher wrote: > > > > Can someone please tell me where the online documentation for the MTH$ RTL > > can be found? > > > > It's not in the "obsolete" section with PPL$ and DecTalk, but then I can't > > find it in the "normal" docs either :-( > > > > Looking for mth$random at the mo, but am also interested in all the lovely > > mth$jiand etc routines. > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6118/6118pro.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 06:33:42 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: MTH$ RTL documentation Message-ID: Hi Tom, > but you will have to translate to Cobol yourself:-) Obviously COBOL has intrinsic function support for such things! (Well, not so obviously; I just had to look it up :-) MOVE FUNCTION RANDOM(seed) TO blah. What could be more elegant than that :-) Cheers Richard Maher PS. Why is the MTH$ RTL documentation not locateable from the normal hp vms doc pages? "Tom Linden" wrote in message news:op.ud2vudd6hv4qyg@murphus.hsd1.ca.comcast.net... > On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 04:53:14 -0700, Richard Maher > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > Can someone please tell me where the online documentation for the > > MTH$ RTL > > can be found? > > > > It's not in the "obsolete" section with PPL$ and DecTalk, but then I > > can't > > find it in the "normal" docs either :-( > > > > Looking for mth$random at the mo, but am also interested in all the > > lovely > > mth$jiand etc routines. > > > > Cheers Richard maher > > > > > If you all you need is a random number generator I put one up a while > back > http://www.kednos.com/pli_examples/RAND.HTML > but you will have to translate to Cobol yourself:-) > > > -- > PL/I for OpenVMS > www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 06:16:06 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: MTH$ vs. MATH$ Message-ID: Hi Jan-Erik, > MTH$ is the VAX math library, and documented at > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6117/6117PRO.html You Bewdy! > Can't see why it could be on-list. Me either. What if someone needs to reference some old code? (Or mth$random :-) > Got this privately from Stephen Hoffman. So what have you got that I haven't got :-) Cheers Richard Maher "Jan-Erik Söderholm" wrote in message news:Y2pdk.830$U5.707@newsb.telia.net... > Got this privately from Stephen Hoffman. > Can't see why it could be on-list. > > Enojy! > Jan-Erik. > > > > > > > > MTH$ is the VAX math library, and documented at > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6117/6117PRO.html > > The VAX math library (and all of the VAX-isms) didn't get ported (to > Alpha), and the replacement is dmpl/cpml/hppml; the portable math library. > > Porting documentation where the retirement is mentioned: > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/documentation/pdf/OVMS_MIGR_APPL.pdf > > > "4.3 Compatibility Between the Mathematics Libraries Available > on VAX and Alpha Systems" > > "Mathematical applications using the standard OpenVMS call > interface to the OpenVMS Mathematics (MTH$) Run-Time Library > need not change their calls to MTH$ routines when migrating to > an OpenVMS Alpha system. Jacket routines are provided that map > MTH$ routines to their math$ counterparts in the Digital Portable > Mathematics Library (DPML) for OpenVMS Alpha systems. However, > there is no support in the DPML for calls made to JSB entry > points and vector routines. Note that DPML routines are different > from those in the OpenVMS MTH$ RTL and you should expect to see > small differences in the precision of the mathematical results." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:02:12 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Quasi-push technologies (was: Re: Another new VMS system.) Message-ID: Hi John, > Are you looking for 'push' which has to be 'acked' or is an undirected > straight UDP 'publish' to all 'listeners' ok? Just curious as to what other people are doing. I am working on just such a UDP example at the moment. (I imagine an application protocol that employees a combination of sequence number checking, and timeouts, used in conjunction with a rock-solid connection-orient, context-rich request/reply mechanism would obviate the need for "ack"ing) For the sake of this example the UDP packets with be sent to known subscribers. (i.e. You'd register with a service telling them which port you'd like to receive messages on and then listen for broadcasts in a seperate thread, while continuing your lovely request/response client/server bread/butter functionality.) IIRC UDP is out of the scope of SSL/TLS but with IPsec and VPNs UDP-Broadcasting would be a pretty powerful tool! (But why can't Multi-cast messages be received by an Applet, even if they originated from the codebase? Or was it that "They can as long as they're signed"? I'll have to look thos discussions it up again) Cheers Richard Maher PS. Interesting that the Java Applet security-manager/sandbox just ignores (silently) UDP messages from hosts other than the codebase. (Unsigned Applet) "John Smith" wrote in message news:c8f22$4876268c$4c0aab67$16376@TEKSAVVY.COM... > > "Richard Maher" wrote in message > news:g520vp$7kk$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au... > > Hi Jeffrey, > > > > Thanks for the reply. > > > >> I can't easily tell if this is the same concept, but look at > >> www.monex.com. That ticker simply reads a file every few minutes that is > >> updated by the trading system which is an OpenVMS cluster. > > > > Interesting; you wouldn't happen to know if it's a periodic refresh, or > > Ajax > > or a hidden iFrame would you? (Or something else?) > > > > It's just that I have the Java console turned on for Applets and it popped > > up on that page, and I couldn't see an obvious Applet Object def (that > > wasn't buried in son included .JS file) and was just curious as to which > > bit > > the Java was controlling. > > > > Cheers Richard Maher > > > > PS. I'm currently very interested in various "push" technologies. (Used > > mainly in conjunction with Tier3 client/server request/response > > mechanisms) > > > Are you looking for 'push' which has to be 'acked' or is an undirected > straight UDP 'publish' to all 'listeners' ok? > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:02:21 GMT From: Rob Brown Subject: Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Jul 2008, AEF wrote: > Yes, that makes sense -- especially if division is performed by > repeatedly subtracting .... (If that's not how it's done I'm all > ears.) I might have thought that it would use the divide instruction. On VAX the integer DIV instruction does one of two specific things on divide by 0, neither of which is to return 2**31 - 1. On Alpha, there is no integer divide instruction, but floating divide by zero causes a "Division by Zero Arithmetic Trap" and the value in the result register is UNPREDICTABLE. > I would have hoped that division by zero would have been > special-cased. Looks to me like returning 2**31 - 1 is special-casing divide by 0. In a perfect world, what would you like it to do? -- Rob Brown b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (780)438-9343 (voice) Edmonton (780)437-3367 (FAX) http://gmcl.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 16:37:26 -0700 (PDT) From: AEF Subject: Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Message-ID: On Jul 10, 2:02 pm, Rob Brown wrote: > On Wed, 9 Jul 2008, AEF wrote: > > Yes, that makes sense -- especially if division is performed by > > repeatedly subtracting .... (If that's not how it's done I'm all > > ears.) > > I might have thought that it would use the divide instruction. On VAX > the integer DIV instruction does one of two specific things on divide > by 0, neither of which is to return 2**31 - 1. On Alpha, there is no So what are these two specific things? > integer divide instruction, but floating divide by zero causes a You mean you can't run the command $ A = 5/2 on an Alpha? Surely you jest. > "Division by Zero Arithmetic Trap" and the value in the result > register is UNPREDICTABLE. You mean it spits out garbage? > > > I would have hoped that division by zero would have been > > special-cased. > > Looks to me like returning 2**31 - 1 is special-casing divide by 0. I meant special-cased to not give a ridiculous answer. If it does use the algorithm I suggested, then it just runs out of positive numbers while counting and says "Well, I can't go any further, I'll just dump what I've got and the hell with. I've got other stuff to do." :-) > > In a perfect world, what would you like it to do? $ A = 4/0 %DCL-F-DIVBYZERO, attempt to divide by zero > > -- > > Rob Brown b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m > G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (780)438-9343 (voice) > Edmonton (780)437-3367 (FAX) > http://gmcl.com/ AEF ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 02:19:25 GMT From: Rob Brown Subject: Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jul 2008, AEF wrote: > On Jul 10, 2:02 pm, Rob Brown wrote: >> On Wed, 9 Jul 2008, AEF wrote: >>> Yes, that makes sense -- especially if division is performed by >>> repeatedly subtracting .... (If that's not how it's done I'm all >>> ears.) >> >> I might have thought that it would use the divide instruction. On >> VAX the integer DIV instruction does one of two specific things on >> divide by 0, neither of which is to return 2**31 - 1. On Alpha, >> there is no > > So what are these two specific things? The quotient operand is either unchanged or gets the value from the divident operand. Which really means that it always gets the dividend. >> integer divide instruction, but floating divide by zero causes a > > You mean you can't run the command $ A = 5/2 on an Alpha? Surely you > jest. Sure you can. Watch: $ write sys$output f$getsyi ("hw_name") DEC 3000 Model 400 $ a = 5/2 $ show symbol a A = 2 Hex = 00000002 Octal = 00000000002 Which does not change the fact that this machine does not have an integer divide instruction. >> "Division by Zero Arithmetic Trap" and the value in the result >> register is UNPREDICTABLE. > > You mean it spits out garbage? Garbage in, garbage out. I don't think "spits out" is accurate. The value is in the result register, where you asked it to be. >>> I would have hoped that division by zero would have been >>> special-cased. >> >> Looks to me like returning 2**31 - 1 is special-casing divide by 0. > > I meant special-cased to not give a ridiculous answer. What answer to divide by 0 is less ridiculous than 2**31 - 1? After all, the limit of a/x as x approaches 0 is infinity. You are not going to get any closer to infinity than 2**31 - 1 with a 32 bit signed integer. >> In a perfect world, what would you like it to do? > > $ A = 4/0 > %DCL-F-DIVBYZERO, attempt to divide by zero Yeah. Too bad they didn't do that. -- Rob Brown b r o w n a t g m c l d o t c o m G. Michaels Consulting Ltd. (780)438-9343 (voice) Edmonton (780)437-3367 (FAX) http://gmcl.com/ ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.384 ************************