INFO-VAX Sat, 28 Jun 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 359 Contents: Backup to SnapServer Re: Backup to SnapServer Expanding a RAID5 array Re: Expanding a RAID5 array Re: Expanding a RAID5 array Re: Expanding a RAID5 array RE: It would be nice to have on VMS Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery TAM (Terminal Access Monitor) Re: Why did this RENAME lose my files? Re: Why did this RENAME lose my files? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:05:42 -0400 From: "Carmine Castiglia" Subject: Backup to SnapServer Message-ID: <4866294d$0$7356$607ed4bc@cv.net> Can anyone offer some tips on how to (if even possible) backup and restore drives from an Alphaerver running OpenVMS v7.1-1H2 across an ethernet connection to a SnapServer 4100 (already on the same network)? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 10:20:10 -0700 (PDT) From: sean@obanion.us Subject: Re: Backup to SnapServer Message-ID: <3c280c04-80cc-4c00-994f-590ab0a41ef8@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Assuming that you have a TCPIP stack running on the Alpha, I would try mounting an NFS service from the SnapServer on to the Alpha, and use VMS BACKUP to write a saveset. Sean On Jun 28, 5:05=A0am, "Carmine Castiglia" wrote: > Can anyone offer some tips on how to (if even possible) backup and restor= e > drives from an Alphaerver running OpenVMS v7.1-1H2 across an ethernet > connection to a SnapServer 4100 (already on the same network)? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:19:48 -0400 From: "Carmine Castiglia" Subject: Expanding a RAID5 array Message-ID: <48662c65$0$5006$607ed4bc@cv.net> I am running an AlphaServer 1200 with a RAID Array 230/Plus subsystem installed. This question concerns a RAID 5 array consisting of three DS-RZ1CB-VW (4.3GB) drives. I would like to swap this out with DS-RZ1DB-VW (9.1GB) drives and would like to do so in the easiest, safest, and quickest way possible. I know that if I replace a single 4.3GB drive with a 9.1GB drive and allow the array to rebuild, the total storage space available will not change. This rule applies if I replace a second drive as well because available storage space is always calculated based on the smallest drive in the array. Correct? So, what happens if I continue the process and replace the third drive. After rebuild has completed, will the RAID controller automatically make the full (18.2GB RAID 5) capacity available? WIll this process be completed without data loss? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:32:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Expanding a RAID5 array Message-ID: <5952d0ae-75fc-4407-96f0-5ce3af73ce1a@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com> Carmine Castiglia wrote: > I am running an AlphaServer 1200 with a RAID Array 230/Plus subsystem > installed. This question concerns a RAID 5 array consisting of three > DS-RZ1CB-VW (4.3GB) drives. > > I would like to swap this out with DS-RZ1DB-VW (9.1GB) drives and would like > to do so in the easiest, safest, and quickest way possible. I know that if > I replace a single 4.3GB drive with a 9.1GB drive and allow the array to > rebuild, the total storage space available will not change. This rule > applies if I replace a second drive as well because available storage space > is always calculated based on the smallest drive in the array. Correct? > > So, what happens if I continue the process and replace the third drive. > After rebuild has completed, will the RAID controller automatically make the > full (18.2GB RAID 5) capacity available? WIll this process be completed > without data loss? Carmine, There are actually two questions here: - Can the RAID array expand the RAID set size? - Can you make the expanded space available to OpenVMS? I do not have the time here to answer the first question. Generally, you can switch the drives for higher capacity, but whether the RAID set can be expanded dynamically is a different question. I strongly recommend checking the manuals for details. On the second question, the answer depends on what version of OpenVMS is in use. If you are running OpenVMS Alpha 7.3-2 or later, the answer is yes. You will need to take the volume offline shortly to set it up for dynamic volume expansion, but once that is done, additional increments in size can be accomplished online without interfering with users. Even if the RAID array does not support expanding the RAID set, if you have the license for Host Based Volume Shadowing, it can be used to migrate the data to a new RAID set while users are active without interruption, a method I have presented at the HP Technology Fora in 2004 and 2005 ("Migrating OpenVMS Storage Environments without Interruption or Disruption"; notes available at http://www.rlgsc.com/hptechnologyforum/2007/1512.html ). I would also suggest that consideration be given to switching to a RAID 0 (Mirrored) set or a RAID 10 (Striped/Mirror) set. There will be a substantial performance and redundancy benefit at little cost, given the increases in drive capacity. I hope that the above is clear. If I have been unclear, or can be of assistance, please let me know. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:33:30 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Expanding a RAID5 array Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:19:48 -0700, Carmine Castiglia wrote: > I am running an AlphaServer 1200 with a RAID Array 230/Plus subsystem > installed. This question concerns a RAID 5 array consisting of three > DS-RZ1CB-VW (4.3GB) drives. > > I would like to swap this out with DS-RZ1DB-VW (9.1GB) drives and would > like > to do so in the easiest, safest, and quickest way possible. I know that > if > I replace a single 4.3GB drive with a 9.1GB drive and allow the array to > rebuild, the total storage space available will not change. This rule > applies if I replace a second drive as well because available storage > space > is always calculated based on the smallest drive in the array. Correct? > > So, what happens if I continue the process and replace the third drive. > After rebuild has completed, will the RAID controller automatically make > the > full (18.2GB RAID 5) capacity available? WIll this process be completed > without data loss? > > what is the expansion size limit? BTW, drives are cheap why wast your time going from 4.3 to only 9.1? You may also wish to consider shadowing instead. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 10:06:33 -0700 (PDT) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: Expanding a RAID5 array Message-ID: <6e748229-62a7-4d71-867a-c1b7b7c9f535@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On 28 Jun, 16:33, "Tom Linden" wrote: > On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:19:48 -0700, Carmine Castiglia wrote: > > I am running an AlphaServer 1200 with a RAID Array 230/Plus subsystem > > installed. =A0This question concerns a RAID 5 array consisting of three > > DS-RZ1CB-VW (4.3GB) drives. > > > I would like to swap this out with DS-RZ1DB-VW (9.1GB) drives and would= =A0 > > like > > to do so in the easiest, safest, and quickest way possible. =A0I know t= hat =A0 > > if > > I replace a single 4.3GB drive with a 9.1GB drive and allow the array t= o > > rebuild, the total storage space available will not change. =A0This rul= e > > applies if I replace a second drive as well because available storage = =A0 > > space > > is always calculated based on the smallest drive in the array. =A0Corre= ct? > > > So, what happens if I continue the process and replace the third drive. > > After rebuild has completed, will the RAID controller automatically mak= e =A0 > > the > > full (18.2GB RAID 5) capacity available? =A0WIll this process be comple= ted > > without data loss? > > what is the expansion size limit? =A0BTW, drives are cheap why wast your = time > going from 4.3 to only 9.1? =A0You may also wish to consider shadowing = =A0 > instead. > > -- > PL/I for OpenVMSwww.kednos.com I am familar with that hardware and suspect that it won't expand. Last time I did that I added more disks, built a new RAID disk and copied the data. That way you do not lose anything but do have downtime. Perhaps with shadowing DVE and so on downtime may be avoided. I expect you don't have shadowing. Why not bigger disks - that hardware has limitations. 32Gb per unit and only certain drives work. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 16:27:40 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: It would be nice to have on VMS Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Arne Vajh=F8j [mailto:arne@vajhoej.dk] > Sent: June 27, 2008 10:32 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: It would be nice to have on VMS > > John Smith wrote: > > http://www.sybase.com/detail?id=3D1056945 > > > > First time I used Sybase IQ was about 10 years ago for a 2Tb initial > load > > data warehouse I designed for a bank. A really great product and > waaay fast. > > That one was on Solaris. > > > > I don't know of anything comparable to this product on VMS. > ....sigh.... > > Sybase dropped VMS support a long time ago. > > The only major database vendor that supports VMS is Oracle. > > Those that want something like Sybase IQ should check out what > Oracle has. > > Arne Sybase has not done to much in the enterprise space in the last few years. They were focussing a lot on distributed DB market. Perhaps they are re-focussing on the enterprise again and are using this benchmark to jump start that marketing. In the mid to high enterprise DB space I usually see Oracle, SQL Server or DB2. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:11:58 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Message-ID: In article <4864d2d4$0$22487$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > In article <48644e00$0$22502$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei > > writes: > > > >> David J Dachtera wrote: > >> > >> >> $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING("''ZERO'")' > >> >> ONE > >> > > > > That's what I expect. The ZERO is expanded to ONE. The ONE is in > > quotes. Thus, it is the string "ONE", not the symbol ONE. > > > > but: > > WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING("ONE")' > yields... > TWO > > So if "''ZERO'" is converted to "ONE", how come the end result ins't the > same as if "ONE" had been entered to begin with ? I suspect that before F$STRING is expanded by the single quotes, its argument is parsed, and the double quotes removed. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:12:56 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Message-ID: In article <4db4e4a0-60f8-483f-b7fc-b34a6fb4020c@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > On Jun 27, 7:44 am, JF Mezei wrote: > > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > > > > In article <48644e00$0$22502$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei > > > writes: > > > > >> David J Dachtera wrote: > > > > >> >> $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING("''ZERO'")' > > >> >> ONE > > > > > That's what I expect. The ZERO is expanded to ONE. The ONE is in > > > quotes. Thus, it is the string "ONE", not the symbol ONE. > > > > but: > > > > WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING("ONE")' > > yields... > > TWO > > > > So if "''ZERO'" is converted to "ONE", how come the end result ins't the > > same as if "ONE" had been entered to begin with ? > > Well, still no one can explain it. So far I like Bob Koehler's > explanation the best. > > How about this?: > > $ SH SYM ZERO > ZERO == "ONE" > $ SH SYM ONE > ONE == "TWO" > $ SH SYM TWO > TWO == "THREE" > $ > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING("ZERO") > ZERO > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING("ZERO")' > ONE > $ > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING("'ZERO'") > 'ZERO' > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING("'ZERO'")' > TWO Note that the previous two examples are unsupported. > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING("''ZERO'") > ONE > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING("''ZERO'")' > ONE > $ > > I give up. > > AEF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:14:14 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: TAM (Terminal Access Monitor) Message-ID: I'm supporting a VMS environment where something called TAM, Terminal Access Mmonitor, is used. It's a screen/forms/terminal tool to manage VT terminals. The available docs are from Digital and dated 1981-something. I'm mainly interested in if this tool had any wider usage within the VMS community. Google didn't know anything about it, b.t.w. Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:24:22 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Why did this RENAME lose my files? Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > winston19842005@yahoo.com wrote: > >> And if my memory serves, whenever you delete a user, but not their >> files, they are given to [1,1]. > > In my universe (where things are always a tad different), when you > delete a users,. his/her/its files remain with the same UIC. If there > is no user asccosiated with the UIC, the DIR/FULL just shows the UIC for it. > Oh dear!!! I think I've fallen into JF's universe. Somebody please help me!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:11:40 -0700 (PDT) From: FrankS Subject: Re: Why did this RENAME lose my files? Message-ID: On Jun 28, 7:24=A0am, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: > > In my universe (where things are always a tad different), when you > > delete =A0a users,. his/her/its files remain with the same UIC. If ther= e > > is no user asccosiated with the UIC, the DIR/FULL just shows the UIC fo= r it. > > Oh dear!!! =A0I think I've fallen into JF's universe. =A0Somebody please > help me!!!!!!!!! Take comfort in knowing that it's just one small corner of that universe that you're sharing. Does that help? :-) ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.359 ************************