INFO-VAX Sat, 28 Jun 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 358 Contents: >980 VMS Kobs in JOBSTER Re: >980 VMS Kobs in JOBSTER Re: >980 VMS Kobs in JOBSTER Re: >980 VMS Kobs in JOBSTER Re: Determining display device for a process Re: Determining display device for a process Re: Does anyone know if and how VMS figured in this? Re: Does anyone know if and how VMS figured in this? Re: It would be nice to have on VMS Re: OT: I Wanna Be Number Two Re: OT: I Wanna Be Number Two RE: OT: I Wanna Be Number Two Re: OT: I Wanna Be Number Two Re: PerfectCache on Integrity - anyone else using it? Re: Support for PL/I applications on OpenVMS Itanium Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Re: TTA0 port Re: TTA0 port Re: TTA0 port Upgrade your Network with Gigabit Cards for $150 each ! Re: Why did this RENAME lose my files? Re: Why did this RENAME lose my files? Re: Why did this RENAME lose my files? Re: Why did this RENAME lose my files? Re: Why did this RENAME lose my files? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:45:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Didier_Toulouse Subject: >980 VMS Kobs in JOBSTER Message-ID: <7ca323e2-6934-41c9-b24c-99ae8aee266b@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> http://www.jobster.com/find/US/jobs/for/vms How come there are so many requests ? Are they real positions ? Should I send a resum=E9 if I'm interested ? DTL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:34:38 -0500 From: "Ken Robinson" Subject: Re: >980 VMS Kobs in JOBSTER Message-ID: <7dd80f60806271634k548b87c6ke4ee5628de77ad9f@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Didier_Toulouse wrote: > http://www.jobster.com/find/US/jobs/for/vms > > How come there are so many requests ? > Are they real positions ? > Should I send a resum=E9 if I'm interested ? If you look closely many of the "VMS" jobs are not for "OpenVMS", but for thing like Vendor Management Services, Vehicle Management Systems, Video Monitoring Systems, and other things that VMS stands for these days. Many of the other ads say "VMS experience helpful". More are just duplicates. But there are a number of real OpenVMS job ads out there. Quite a few have been out there for months. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 01:25:58 GMT From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing) Subject: Re: >980 VMS Kobs in JOBSTER Message-ID: <00A7BC0B.B56344A6@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> In article <7ca323e2-6934-41c9-b24c-99ae8aee266b@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, Didier_Toulouse writes: >http://www.jobster.com/find/US/jobs/for/vms > >How come there are so many requests ? Because the string "VMS" isn't unique. A bunch of those are for a company called "VMS". Trying to restrict this, I tried www.jobster/com/find/US/jobs/for/vax and got 127 listings, many of which looked real, Clicked through on one and found it was no longer available; on another and found it looking plausible. But there are a number of duplicates. >Are they real positions ? >Should I send a resum=E9 if I'm interested ? Read the job listings, click through, determine the position is still open. Then, sure, send a resume. -- Alan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:27:57 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: >980 VMS Kobs in JOBSTER Message-ID: <4865a1ad$0$90274$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Didier_Toulouse wrote: > http://www.jobster.com/find/US/jobs/for/vms > > How come there are so many requests ? > Are they real positions ? > Should I send a resumé if I'm interested ? There is 96 for OpenVMS, 8 for VMS VAX and 5 for VMS Alpha. The sum of those is probably closer to reality. I would assume that job posted are real. Not much point in creating an ad for a VMS person, if you are not looking for one. Whether it is good jobs or not I have no idea. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:37:21 -0700 From: Fred Bach Subject: Re: Determining display device for a process Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > > However, if you were to define DECW$DISPLAY logical to point to the > right WSAx: device, you would then be able to use it from an RTAx: terminal. > JF, This sounds like it's worth looking into. Would you have an example? Thanks. . fred bach . music at triumf dot c a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:29:55 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Determining display device for a process Message-ID: <48654de2$0$27398$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Fred Bach wrote: > JF Mezei wrote: > >> >> However, if you were to define DECW$DISPLAY logical to point to the >> right WSAx: device, you would then be able to use it from an RTAx: terminal. > This sounds like it's worth looking into. Would you have an example? Nop. When you set host, the newly creater process has information that points to the node and username at the origin, but no information on the terminal device. $ show term Terminal: _RTA1: Device_Type: VT300_Series Owner: JFMEZEI Remote Port Info: CHAIN::SYSTEM On my systems, what I do is to define a systemwide logical name that points to my workstation (was an alpha, now a MAC). $SET DISPLAY/CREATE/EXEC/NODE=BRAKES/TRANSPORT=TCPIP $DEFINE/SYSTEM DECW$DISPLAY 'F$TRNLNM(DECW$DISPLAY) Then, no matter how I access the node, there is always a DECW$DISPLAY "in the background" that points to my workstation. At the process level, if I create a new display to another X terminal, it creates a process level logical which takes precedence over the systemwide DECW$DISPLAY This way, even if I come in on an RTA or LTA or telnet device, there is a decw$display availble. This wouldn not work in a multiuser environment , of course. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 00:00:28 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Does anyone know if and how VMS figured in this? Message-ID: <4865b75b$0$90262$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> yyyc186 wrote: > On Jun 15, 8:25 pm, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > wrote: >> So VMS "figures into this" by not being selected for the job. > > NASDAQ and a few other trading firms broke away from OpenVMS because > various big wigs in the organizations owned stock in either MS or some > Eunics company. Since then, there have been "make CNN" type outages. I thought NASDAQ has run Tandem since forever !? (a googling indicated since 1982) Arne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 01:38:34 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Does anyone know if and how VMS figured in this? Message-ID: <4865ce6c$0$8499$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > I thought NASDAQ has run Tandem since forever !? > > (a googling indicated since 1982) But marketing agreements with Microsoft saw NASDAQ deploy virus propagating Windows web servers as their public front end. When NASDAQ bought OMX, there was a lot of speculation in this very newsgroups on the future of the VMS based stock trading software since NASDAQ wasn't very clear about whether their would be pushing their own platform to the OMX customers, or whether the VMS based OMX software would continue to be marketed/pushed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:32:01 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: It would be nice to have on VMS Message-ID: <4865a2a1$0$90274$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> John Smith wrote: > http://www.sybase.com/detail?id=1056945 > > First time I used Sybase IQ was about 10 years ago for a 2Tb initial load > data warehouse I designed for a bank. A really great product and waaay fast. > That one was on Solaris. > > I don't know of anything comparable to this product on VMS. ....sigh.... Sybase dropped VMS support a long time ago. The only major database vendor that supports VMS is Oracle. Those that want something like Sybase IQ should check out what Oracle has. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:13:34 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: OT: I Wanna Be Number Two Message-ID: <48654a0d$0$22476$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> David Mathog wrote: > http://www.236.com/news/2008/06/25/i_want_to_be_number_two_carly_7363.php > > They completely left out Lucent in the article. Anyway, the title > caught my eye since "number two" is how I usually think of her. It is very rude to think of the bonde bimbo as "number two". Think of the confusion it will create when an intern excuses himself from a meeting "sorry, I have to do number 2". :-) I wonder if the speculation is being put out by Carly or by McCain. In the first case, it is advertising similar to cities bidding for the olympics. But in the second case, it is trial balloon for polling purposes to see if she would be well received. What the article above didn't mention is that she does have the gift of the gab, much more so than McCain's boring speech tone. I wonder, just wonder. Will Bill Gates consider donating loads of money to carly as a charitable endeavour ? With her HP severance package probably already all spent, she faces a terrible bout of famine, having to downgrade herself from her caviar/champagne lifestyle, no longer flying her business jet to anywhere she wants etc etc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:08:24 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: OT: I Wanna Be Number Two Message-ID: <89KdnTk6_OjEyvjVnZ2dnUVZ_rrinZ2d@comcast.com> David Mathog wrote: > Carly article (humorous): > > http://www.236.com/news/2008/06/25/i_want_to_be_number_two_carly_7363.php > > They completely left out Lucent in the article. Anyway, the title > caught my eye since "number two" is how I usually think of her. > > Regards, > > David Mathog "number two". I LIKE that!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:26:33 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: OT: I Wanna Be Number Two Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Malcolm Dunnett [mailto:nothome@spammers.are.scum] > Sent: June 27, 2008 12:51 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: OT: I Wanna Be Number Two > > David Mathog wrote: > > Carly article (humorous): > > > > > http://www.236.com/news/2008/06/25/i_want_to_be_number_two_carly_7363.p > hp > > > > They completely left out Lucent in the article. Anyway, the title > > caught my eye since "number two" is how I usually think of her. > > > > If she gets the nod and McCain wins should we look for the US to buy > out > Canada and Mexico? > > That would be one way to put the whole NAFTA debate to rest I guess. Hey-just wait until someone opens up NAFTA and the whole energy discussion = gets put back on the table. Those wanting to open NAFTA will find Canada only more than willing to nego= tiate new sourcing agreements based on today's energy availability and pric= ing realities. Oops, perhaps this is OT? :-) Actually, best way to end the NAFTA issues would be for Canada to make the = US their 11'th province. I am sure the folks in Texas would not mind to muc= h learning French and giving up their guns. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-254-8911 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:54:58 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: OT: I Wanna Be Number Two Message-ID: <486599F2.2E404BDF@spam.comcast.net> David Mathog wrote: > > Carly article (humorous): > > http://www.236.com/news/2008/06/25/i_want_to_be_number_two_carly_7363.php > > They completely left out Lucent in the article. Anyway, the title > caught my eye since "number two" is how I usually think of her. Now that you mention it, the puppies in the Cottonelle ads ARE cute... ;-) D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:25:46 -0700 From: Marty Kuhrt Subject: Re: PerfectCache on Integrity - anyone else using it? Message-ID: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > On 21 Jun, 20:36, Marty Kuhrt wrote: >> etmsr...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: >>> On 17 Jun, 15:21, Jan-Erik Söderholm >>> wrote: >>>> etmsr...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: >>>>> Hiya, >>>>> We've had a couple of sites needing to use PerfectCache on Integrity, >>>>> VMS versions 8.3 and 8.3-1H1. The problems that we've experienced >>>>> make me suspect that few sites are now using PerfectCache so I'm >>>>> wondering if my suspicions are correct? >>>>> Is anyone out there using PerfectCache on Integrity? Experiences? >>>>> Thanks in advance >>>>> Steve >>>> Doesn't the current cache features in later VMS version >>>> more or less make these 3'rd party cache products obsolete ? >>>> Jan-Erik. >>> No! >>> XFC is fine on a single node, but if you have a cluster that's opening >>> files for write as well as read on more than one node, XFC backs off >>> and won't cache it. Not helpful when you want to cache it! >> Wow! I just assumed XFC would at least try to match the capabilities of >> the third party caching products. >> >> When I was working tech lead with I/O Express (Executive Software) and >> later CacheManager (SyMark) we had block-level write invalidates to >> notify other nodes of a write. This would allow the other nodes in the >> cluster to do whatever without having to consider the whole file >> suspect. (We worked at the block level, anyway) That was over a decade >> ago. >> >> Of course, since I don't do product support anymore, I don't research >> product features. Maybe XFC was updated at some point.- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > Thanks for you message Marty. > As they say, never assume anything. I had assumed that XFC would be > cluster compatible and cluster coherent, only to have it explained in > terms that meant it certainly wasn't if a file is open for both read > and write. > > Are Cache Manager or I/O Express capable of working cluster coherently > on Integrity? Last I looked I/O Express wasn't. > > Steve I couldn't say. I haven't done that work for almost a decade. I would think that is safe to say CacheManager (which was the original I/O Express) is no longer for sale, since Symark only seems to sell *nixy stuff. You'd have to ping Diskeeper Corp (formerly Executive Software) and see if they have an IA64 version. Doesn't look like it from the website. Marty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:33:55 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Support for PL/I applications on OpenVMS Itanium Message-ID: <4865a313$0$90274$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> IanMiller wrote: > Although this a good short term measure I think providing a native PL/ > I compiler would be better. I know there are complications with that. HP or Intel ? Arne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:40:11 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Symbol Substitution Mystery Message-ID: <4865967B.D20CB2EB@spam.comcast.net> AEF wrote: > [snip] Here's the proc. (with SET VERIFY in force) and the resulting job log. Apologies for text wraps... DJAS02::DDACHTERA$ type aef.com $ set verify $! $ zero := one $ one := two $ two := three $ SH SYM ZERO $ SH SYM ONE $ SH SYM TWO $ $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING("ZERO") $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING("ZERO")' $ $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING("'ZERO'") $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING("'ZERO'")' $ $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING("''ZERO'") $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 'F$STRING("''ZERO'")' $! $ EXIT DJAS02::DDACHTERA$ DJAS02::DDACHTERA$ type [-]aef.log *************** BATCH JOB - AEF *********************************************** Started on node DJAS02 on Friday, 27-JUN-2008 at 07:40:28.48 Job procedure : _DSA60:[USER.DDACHTERA.WORK]AEF.COM;2 Procedure Date (CDT) : 27-JUN-2008 07:40:21.87 Job queue name : SYS$BATCH Job release time : 27-JUN-2008 07:40:28.40 Job log file : NONE (USER_DISK:[USER.DDACHTERA]AEF.LOG;) Job log delete : TRUE Job log print : TRUE Job log print queue : NONE Notify user : FALSE Process name : BATCH_5218 Process Identifier : 202785B1 Process Base Priority : 4 Process User Name : DDACHTERA Current default : USER_DISK:[USER.DDACHTERA] *************** BATCH JOB - AEF *********************************************** It's 7:40 AM on Friday, 27-JUN-2008 $! $ zero := one $ one := two $ two := three $ SH SYM ZERO ZERO = "ONE" $ SH SYM ONE ONE = "TWO" $ SH SYM TWO TWO = "THREE" $ $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING("ZERO") ZERO $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ZERO ONE $ $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING("'ZERO'") 'ZERO' $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ONE TWO $ $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$STRING("ONE") ONE $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ZERO ONE $! $ EXIT DDACHTERA job terminated at 27-JUN-2008 07:40:28.61 Accounting information: Buffered I/O count: 124 Peak working set size: 2736 Direct I/O count: 63 Peak virtual size: 173344 Page faults: 229 Mounted volumes: 0 Charged CPU time: 0 00:00:00.09 Elapsed time: 0 00:00:00.21 DJAS02::DDACHTERA$ zero := one DJAS02::DDACHTERA$ say F$STRING("''ZERO'") ONE DJAS02::DDACHTERA$ say 'F$STRING("''ZERO'")' ONE DJAS02::DDACHTERA$ a :='F$STRING("''ZERO'")' DJAS02::DDACHTERA$ sh sym a A = "ZERO" DJAS02::DDACHTERA$ say "''ZERO'" ONE DJAS02::DDACHTERA$ Tell me, Alan. How did you come by such a knack for finding seeming bugs in the system? D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:24:46 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: TTA0 port Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:22:18 -0700, VAXman- <@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote: > In article , "Tom Linden" > writes: >> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:35 -0700, VAXman- <@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote: >> >>> Put a small piece of wire (a paper clip is what I typically use when >>> I'm >>> in >>> a pinch) into pins 2 & 3 of the female connector of the wire you are >>> using >>> to connect the machines. Then use $ SET HOST to see if there is a >>> problem >>> on the sending receiving side of each machine. You should be able to >>> con- >>> nect with SET HOST and then type. What you type should be echoed back >>> to >>> you. Check both sides this way. >> >> Tried that but it hangs and I can't get out of it, ctrl /\ z or c >> unresponsive, so do you think that means the usart is bad? Any kind of >> test >> that I could run? > > Are you certain is was pins 2 and 3? Yup. > > Looking at the female connector: > +---+ > | | > __________v___v______ > \(5) (4) (3) (2) (1)/ > \ (9) (8) (7) (6) / > `---------------' > > Do you have MODEM control or COMMSYNC enabled? If so, turn it off. > Nope -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:18:22 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: TTA0 port Message-ID: <48654b1f$0$8460$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Tom Linden wrote: > Tried that but it hangs and I can't get out of it, ctrl /\ z or c > unresponsive, so do you think that means the usart is bad? This happens when you have a terminal set to look for hardware flow control (modem or commsync) and one of the controls is missing. My guess is that DTEPAD hangs in some $QIOW that never completes and all other activity is not dealt with. Only way to fix this is to establish modem signals on the line, or STOP/ID on the process. > Terminal: _TTA0: Device_Type: Unknown Owner: TOM > No Modem No Local_echo Autobaud No Hangup > No Commsync Look ok so you *shouldn't* getting hung. Is the SHOW TERM from the outbound port (on the node where you do the SET HOST/DTE, or is it from the terminal port on teh target at the other end of the serial cable ? ------------------------------ Date: 27 Jun 2008 21:02:51 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: TTA0 port Message-ID: <4865557b$0$7352$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <48654b1f$0$8460$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >Tom Linden wrote: > >> Tried that but it hangs and I can't get out of it, ctrl /\ z or c >> unresponsive, so do you think that means the usart is bad? > >This happens when you have a terminal set to look for hardware flow >control (modem or commsync) and one of the controls is missing. My >guess is that DTEPAD hangs in some $QIOW that never completes and all >other activity is not dealt with. Only way to fix this is to establish >modem signals on the line, or STOP/ID on the process. > > >> Terminal: _TTA0: Device_Type: Unknown Owner: TOM > >> No Modem No Local_echo Autobaud No Hangup >> No Commsync > >Look ok so you *shouldn't* getting hung. Is the SHOW TERM from the >outbound port (on the node where you do the SET HOST/DTE, or is it from >the terminal port on teh target at the other end of the serial cable ? If Tom says it's not set then I'm puzzled. From the back of either box with the cable installed, this should work: Terminal +---------------------+ |$ SET HOST/DTE TTA0: | +--------------+ |type ctrl-\ | | Alpha | | |==============| +--------+ | | these characters are| | | TTA0: | | | echoed as typed... | +--+--------+--+ +---------------------+ | | | | | | Cable| | | | | | | .-------------------. \(5) (4) (3) (2) (1)/ \ (9) (8) (7) (6) / ` --------------' Paper clip short in pins 2 and 3. (ASCII art, view with a fixed font) -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:55:59 -0400 From: "David" Subject: Upgrade your Network with Gigabit Cards for $150 each ! Message-ID: <%Fa9k.4092$CC.2059@bignews9.bellsouth.net> Island has OEM DEGXA for only $150 each or $1400 for 10 pieces Guaranteed to work with VMS 7.3-1 (+TEMA) and higher Email or call to order -- David B Turner ============================================= Island Computers US Corp PO Box 86 Tybee GA 31328 Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 Email: dturner@islandco.com International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 Fax: 912 786 8505 Web: www.islandco.com ============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:12:35 -0400 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Why did this RENAME lose my files? Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 006404D985257475_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" AEF wrote on 06/27/2008 01:48:55 PM: > On Jun 27, 10:26 am, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > wrote: > > RENAME removes the file from the old directory before inserting it into > > the new directory, and if this fails, it will try to re-insert it into > > the old directory. There's a reason why it doesn't try to enter it into > > the new directory first and simply quit upon failure, but I don't remember > > it. > > I was attempting to RENAME it to the same directory. > > > For some reason, you didn't have permission to re-enter the file back into > > the old directory, despite being able to remove it from there. > > Also, the files are not truly lost forever; they still exist and > > $ ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR will find them and place them in [SYSLOST]. > > Well, I was having no trouble editing and saving new versions of the > file FTDAYBCK.COM in the same directory (which I admit I didn't > mention yet) so I don't see why this would matter. The only time I had > trouble was when there was a journal file leftover (I use journal > files for "undo" purposes). So I wanted to save them but keep them out > of the way so I wouldn't have to enable BYPASS -- hence the problem. > > Anyway, here's what you asked for: > > $ DIR/SEC [-]FELDMAN.DIR > > Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000] > > FELDMAN.DIR;1 13/18 6-JUL-2001 > 18:03:02.34 [1,1] (RWE,RWE,RE,E) > > Total of 1 file, 13/18 blocks. > $ > > And from AUTHORIZE: > > UAF> SHOW SYSTEM > > Username: SYSTEM Owner: SYSTEM MANAGER > Account: SYSTEM UIC: [1,4] ([SYSTEM]) > > > So it seems to me that I shouldn't have had a problem. And I did have > SYSPRV enabled. > > New question: Just what is UIC [1,1]? [1,1] is the UIC of the file system (000000.dir) > > UAF> SHOW [1,1] > %UAF-W-BADSPC, no user matches specification > UAF> > > I already had ANAL/DISK and recovered them. > > Thanks to all who are helping with this. > > AEF --=_alternative 006404D985257475_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



AEF <spamsink2001@yahoo.com> wrote on 06/27/2008 01:48:55 PM:

> On Jun 27, 10:26 am, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
> wrote:
> > RENAME removes the file from the old directory before inserting it into
> > the new directory, and if this fails, it will try to re-insert it into
> > the old directory.  There's a reason why it doesn't try to enter it into
> > the new directory first and simply quit upon failure, but I don't remember
> > it.
>
> I was attempting to RENAME it to the same directory.
>
> > For some reason, you didn't have permission to re-enter the file back into
> > the old directory, despite being able to remove it from there.
> > Also, the files are not truly lost forever; they still exist and
> > $ ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR will find them and place them in [SYSLOST].
>
> Well, I was having no trouble editing and saving new versions of the
> file FTDAYBCK.COM in the same directory (which I admit I didn't
> mention yet) so I don't see why this would matter. The only time I had
> trouble was when there was a journal file leftover (I use journal
> files for "undo" purposes). So I wanted to save them but keep them out
> of the way so I wouldn't have to enable BYPASS -- hence the problem.
>
> Anyway, here's what you asked for:
>
> $ DIR/SEC [-]FELDMAN.DIR
>
> Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]
>
> FELDMAN.DIR;1                       13/18        6-JUL-2001
> 18:03:02.34  [1,1]                 (RWE,RWE,RE,E)
>
> Total of 1 file, 13/18 blocks.
> $
>
> And from AUTHORIZE:
>
> UAF> SHOW SYSTEM
>
> Username: SYSTEM                           Owner:  SYSTEM MANAGER
> Account:  SYSTEM                           UIC:    [1,4] ([SYSTEM])
>
>
> So it seems to me that I shouldn't have had a problem. And I did have
> SYSPRV enabled.
>
> New question: Just what is UIC [1,1]?


[1,1] is the UIC of the file system (000000.dir)

>
> UAF> SHOW [1,1]
> %UAF-W-BADSPC, no user matches specification
> UAF>
>
> I already had ANAL/DISK and recovered them.
>
> Thanks to all who are helping with this.
>
> AEF
--=_alternative 006404D985257475_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:21:46 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Why did this RENAME lose my files? Message-ID: <48654bea$0$8460$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> re: needing write access to the directory file. You need write/control access to remove an entry from a directory. If RENAME is able to remove the file from the directory, it should be able to put it back in if the target fails. How big is your directory ? Are you able to $CREATE mychocolate_bar.txt in the directory ? Sometimes, if a directory file grows beyond a certain sise/extents, you can't create new files in it anymore. Are you able to rename a file to another directory ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:53:19 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Why did this RENAME lose my files? Message-ID: <4865998F.36F5B14A@spam.comcast.net> AEF wrote: > > On Jun 27, 10:26 am, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > wrote: > > RENAME removes the file from the old directory before inserting it into > > the new directory, and if this fails, it will try to re-insert it into > > the old directory. There's a reason why it doesn't try to enter it into > > the new directory first and simply quit upon failure, but I don't remember > > it. > > I was attempting to RENAME it to the same directory. > > > For some reason, you didn't have permission to re-enter the file back into > > the old directory, despite being able to remove it from there. > > Also, the files are not truly lost forever; they still exist and > > $ ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR will find them and place them in [SYSLOST]. > > Well, I was having no trouble editing and saving new versions of the > file FTDAYBCK.COM in the same directory (which I admit I didn't > mention yet) so I don't see why this would matter. The only time I had > trouble was when there was a journal file leftover (I use journal > files for "undo" purposes). So I wanted to save them but keep them out > of the way so I wouldn't have to enable BYPASS -- hence the problem. > > Anyway, here's what you asked for: > > $ DIR/SEC [-]FELDMAN.DIR > > Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000] > > FELDMAN.DIR;1 13/18 6-JUL-2001 > 18:03:02.34 [1,1] (RWE,RWE,RE,E) > > Total of 1 file, 13/18 blocks. > $ > > And from AUTHORIZE: > > UAF> SHOW SYSTEM > > Username: SYSTEM Owner: SYSTEM MANAGER > Account: SYSTEM UIC: [1,4] ([SYSTEM]) > > So it seems to me that I shouldn't have had a problem. And I did have > SYSPRV enabled. O.k. SYSPRV but no BYPASS. The files belong to [1,1], your working UIC was [1,4]. Group access is denied, but you had SYSPRV and so should have been able to access the directory entry using the System portion of the protection mask. Then again, System had only RD access - no W. I'm thinking that prevented you from making the entry with the new name, also re-entering with the old name. At that point, access to the directory likely did not matter. Guess I'd have to recommend BYPASS ("root" access, in UN*X parlance) in any case where something could go that wrong. ...or, I'd have to recommend an SPR indicating that the image behind RENAME should check to ensure that operation is possible before attempting it. In this case, it wasn't possible (insufficient privilege or file protection violation). So, it shouldn't have been attempted rather than wait for the underlying system services to return a bad status after the user was already "committed" to completing the operation, with the end result being a "lost file". Runs counter to the VMS philosophy: "data integrity first" must include the system data (directory entries), by definition. Again, Alan, you have a unique knack for "breaking" the system! Might QA be a career option for you? D.J.D. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:29:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "winston19842005@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Why did this RENAME lose my files? Message-ID: <649d30d9-a08d-483e-98a6-db442a773e20@p25g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Jun 27, 2:12 pm, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote: > AEF wrote on 06/27/2008 01:48:55 PM: > > > > > > > On Jun 27, 10:26 am, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) > > wrote: > > > RENAME removes the file from the old directory before inserting it > into > > > the new directory, and if this fails, it will try to re-insert it into > > > the old directory. There's a reason why it doesn't try to enter it > into > > > the new directory first and simply quit upon failure, but I don't > remember > > > it. > > > I was attempting to RENAME it to the same directory. > > > > For some reason, you didn't have permission to re-enter the file back > into > > > the old directory, despite being able to remove it from there. > > > Also, the files are not truly lost forever; they still exist and > > > $ ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR will find them and place them in [SYSLOST]. > > > Well, I was having no trouble editing and saving new versions of the > > file FTDAYBCK.COM in the same directory (which I admit I didn't > > mention yet) so I don't see why this would matter. The only time I had > > trouble was when there was a journal file leftover (I use journal > > files for "undo" purposes). So I wanted to save them but keep them out > > of the way so I wouldn't have to enable BYPASS -- hence the problem. > > > Anyway, here's what you asked for: > > > $ DIR/SEC [-]FELDMAN.DIR > > > Directory SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000] > > > FELDMAN.DIR;1 13/18 6-JUL-2001 > > 18:03:02.34 [1,1] (RWE,RWE,RE,E) > > > Total of 1 file, 13/18 blocks. > > $ > > > And from AUTHORIZE: > > > UAF> SHOW SYSTEM > > > Username: SYSTEM Owner: SYSTEM MANAGER > > Account: SYSTEM UIC: [1,4] ([SYSTEM]) > > > So it seems to me that I shouldn't have had a problem. And I did have > > SYSPRV enabled. > > > New question: Just what is UIC [1,1]? > > [1,1] is the UIC of the file system (000000.dir) > > > > > UAF> SHOW [1,1] > > %UAF-W-BADSPC, no user matches specification > > UAF> > > > I already had ANAL/DISK and recovered them. > > > Thanks to all who are helping with this. > > > AEF And if my memory serves, whenever you delete a user, but not their files, they are given to [1,1]. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 01:27:04 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Why did this RENAME lose my files? Message-ID: <4865cbba$0$8461$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> winston19842005@yahoo.com wrote: > And if my memory serves, whenever you delete a user, but not their > files, they are given to [1,1]. In my universe (where things are always a tad different), when you delete a users,. his/her/its files remain with the same UIC. If there is no user asccosiated with the UIC, the DIR/FULL just shows the UIC for it. Remember that if you have multiple users using the same UIC, when you delete one UIC, it doesn't affect the files for the other users with the same UIC (since they are just as rightfull onwers of those files). ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.358 ************************