INFO-VAX Thu, 12 Jun 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 327 Contents: Re: ampersand in DCL script Re: ampersand in DCL script Re: ampersand in DCL script Re: ampersand in DCL script Re: ampersand in DCL script Re: ampersand in DCL script RE: ampersand in DCL script Re: ampersand in DCL script Re: ampersand in DCL script Re: ampersand in DCL script Re: ampersand in DCL script Re: ampersand in DCL script Re: ampersand in DCL script Re: ampersand in DCL script Re: Birthday Re: Birthday Re: Birthday Re: Birthday Re: Birthday Re: Birthday Re: Birthday booting of remote vxts with host system Re: booting of remote vxts with host system Re: booting of remote vxts with host system Re: booting of remote vxts with host system Re: booting of remote vxts with host system Re: booting of remote vxts with host system Chuck Norris says "Drill now in America for oil" Re: DS10L clock battery question Re: FTP client: stripping version numbers and forcing lowercase on MPUT Graphics Board Re: Interesting job ad from HP Re: Interesting job ad from HP Re: Interesting job ad from HP Re: Interesting job ad from HP Re: Interesting job ad from HP Re: Interesting job ad from HP Re: Interesting job ad from HP Re: Interesting job ad from HP Re: Interesting job ad from HP OpenVMS Update - June 11 Re: OpenVMS Update - June 11 Re: OpenVMS v8.3 on Integrity and DVD/CD Rewritable Drive (Model DRX-800UL) with Re: OT: What filtering does Hotmail use? Re: OT: What filtering does Hotmail use? out-of-date [WAS: RE: 2 VMS books?] Re: out-of-date [WAS: RE: 2 VMS books?] Re: out-of-date [WAS: RE: 2 VMS books?] Re: out-of-date [WAS: RE: 2 VMS books?] Re: out-of-date [WAS: RE: 2 VMS books?] Re: out-of-date [WAS: RE: 2 VMS books?] Re: out-of-date [WAS: RE: 2 VMS books?] Re: Python for VMS Re: Python for VMS Re: Python for VMS Re: Python for VMS Re: Python for VMS Re: Python for VMS Re: Python for VMS Tough Crowd! Re: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Re: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:10:47 +0200 From: "Fred Zwarts" Subject: Re: ampersand in DCL script Message-ID: "Hein RMS van den Heuvel" wrote in message = news:8d684d35-a238-4061-8a83-0c002f9c26c3@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com... On Jun 11, 11:31 pm, kiwi-red wrote: > Looking through some code that I am trying to debug and I came > across the following. Can't figure out why its been done. > > Anyone got any suggestions? > Sorry if I am being a bit vague > > kiwi > > $ AMPERSAND :=3D=3D & > > $ type &pull_master_dat > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name That code might just trying to be cute/smart. The single quoting on the left and right gets tedious after a while. Using the &, no closing quote is needed. Note that if single quotes are used, the closing quote is also only = necessary if a clear separation with the next word ie needed. Normally only an = opening quote is sufficient. $ x =3D "sys$output" $ wrote 'x "Text" works as well as $ x =3D "sys$output" $ wrote &x "Text" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:26:08 +0200 From: "Fred Zwarts" Subject: Re: ampersand in DCL script Message-ID: <59c46$4850dda0$817d1b38$19184@news1.tudelft.nl> "kiwi-red" wrote in message = news:74b17c72-2f0e-42a6-8ef2-b2b2275dc1d5@q27g2000prf.googlegroups.com...= > Looking through some code that I am trying to debug and I came > across the following. Can't figure out why its been done. >=20 > Anyone got any suggestions? > Sorry if I am being a bit vague >=20 > kiwi >=20 >=20 > $ AMPERSAND :=3D=3D & >=20 >=20 >=20 > $ type &pull_master_dat > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name >=20 If I remember correctly, the ampersand is very similar in use to the = single quote. It causes a substitution of a symbol. The difference is that the single = quote causes substitution before the DCL parsing and the ampersand causes = substitution after the DCL parsing.=20 This moment of substitution was often used in old DCL procedures when = the :=3D operator was required for string symbols, for a sort of delayed substitution, or = extra level of indirection. Example: $ Y :=3D FILE1 $ A :=3D 'Y $ B :=3D &Y $ Y :=3D FILE2 Now $ COPY 'A NL: copies FILE1, but $ COPY 'B NL: copies FILE2. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 01:49:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Rob Subject: Re: ampersand in DCL script Message-ID: On Jun 12, 9:26=A0am, "Fred Zwarts" wrote: > "kiwi-red" wrote in messagenews:74b17c72-2f0e-42a= 6-8ef2-b2b2275dc1d5@q27g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > > Looking through some code that I am trying to debug and I came > > across the following. Can't figure out why its been done. > > > Anyone got any suggestions? > > Sorry if I am being a bit vague > > > kiwi > > > $ AMPERSAND =A0 =A0 :=3D=3D & > > > $ type &pull_master_dat > > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name > > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name > > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name > > If I remember correctly, the ampersand is very similar in use to the singl= e quote. > It causes a substitution of a symbol. The difference is that the single qu= ote > causes substitution before the DCL parsing and the ampersand causes substi= tution > after the DCL parsing. > This moment of substitution was often used in old DCL procedures when the = :=3D operator > was required for string symbols, for a sort of delayed substitution, or ex= tra level of indirection. > > Example: > > $ Y :=3D FILE1 > $ A :=3D 'Y > $ B :=3D &Y > $ Y :=3D FILE2 > > Now > > $ COPY 'A NL: > > copies FILE1, but > > $ COPY 'B NL: > > copies FILE2.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - The difference between ampersand and single/double quotes is that it's dynamic substitution. The substitution happens at run-time, rather than when the DCL command is interpreted. This means you could build up complex, single line programs, with dynamic execution, like this :- $ PIPE SEARCH SYP:ALPCHQ_'PUB'.SPF "No of cheques" | (READ SYS$PIPE INCHAN ; - TOTCHEQ=3DF$ELEMENT(3," ",F $EDIT(INCHAN,"COMPRESS,TRIM")) ; DEFINE/JOB/NOLOG NOOFCHEQ &TOTCHEQ) $ TOTCHEQ =3D F$TRNLNM("NOOFCHEQ") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 05:04:23 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: ampersand in DCL script Message-ID: <4850e864$0$20589$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: > btw... kids, don't try this at home : $read/key=x sys$input y Are you suggesting we should instead try this on mission critical systems at work ? :-) ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 2008 11:12:28 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: ampersand in DCL script Message-ID: <4851049c$0$11595$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <4850e864$0$20589$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: > >> btw... kids, don't try this at home : $read/key=x sys$input y > >Are you suggesting we should instead try this on mission critical >systems at work ? Only from the console! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:13:34 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: ampersand in DCL script Message-ID: kiwi-red wrote: > Looking through some code that I am trying to debug and I came > across the following. Can't figure out why its been done. > > Anyone got any suggestions? > Sorry if I am being a bit vague > > kiwi > > > $ AMPERSAND :== & > > > > $ type &pull_master_dat > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name > > "&" is a symbol substitution operator. It is similar to, but not identical with, "'". DCL makes two passes through the source in the process of interpreting it; "'" is interpreted in one pass and "&" in the other. There are some things you can do with "&" that you can't do with "'". The distinction is subtle and I never REALLY understood it. I've needed "&" ONCE in twenty-four years! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:03:23 -0400 From: "Peter Weaver" Subject: RE: ampersand in DCL script Message-ID: <002601c8cc84$50f63040$2802a8c0@CHARONLAP> >... > $ type &pull_master_dat > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name Other people have answered what & means. But one reason to use the & instead of ' is when you have a symbol that contains a nodename/username/password and you do not want the password to show up if someone does a SET VERIFY. Since one of your symbols is named remote_file you may find that is why the programmer went this way. $ set verify $ set noon $ remote_file:==nodename"""username mypass"""::login.com $ dir 'remote_file ! the user will see the username/password $ dir &remote_file ! the user will not see the username/password $ set noverify Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca www.openvmsvirtualization.com www.vaxvirtualization.com www.alphavirtualization.com Winner of the 2007 OpenVMS.org Readers' Choice Award for System Management/Performance ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 05:20:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: ampersand in DCL script Message-ID: <33db365e-296f-4e3f-93be-94440b19795a@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Jun 12, 8:03=A0am, "Peter Weaver" wrote: > >... > Other people have answered what & means. But one reason to use the & inste= ad > of ' is when you have a symbol that contains a nodename/username/password > and you do not want the password to show up if someone does a SET VERIFY. YES. That's probably it. vaxman> "Only from the console! " Ah.. you tried :-) Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:24:53 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: ampersand in DCL script Message-ID: <485116f8$0$7256$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > The distinction is subtle and I never REALLY understood it. I've needed > "&" ONCE in twenty-four years! ' substitutes the contents of the symbol prior to parsing. & replaces the contents as the command line is being parsed and treats the contents of the symbol as a single entity (aka, quotes, spaces in the symbol value are seen as any other printable character with no special meaning) -------------------------------------------- $ subj = "My darling clementine's food" $ mail nla0: system/subject='subj %DCL-W-MAXPARM, too many parameters - reenter command with fewer parameters \DARLING\ $ mail nla0: system/subject=&subj New mail on node CHAIN from CHAIN::SYSTEM # From Date Subject 3 CHAIN::SYSTEM 12-JUN-2008 My darling clementine's food ---------------------------------------------------- $ subj = "My darling clementine""s food" $ mail nla0: system/subject="''subj'" %DCL-W-MAXPARM, too many parameters - reenter command with fewer parameters \FOOD"\ $ mail nla0: system/subject=&subj New mail on node CHAIN from CHAIN::SYSTEM ----------------------------------------------------- And a better example still: $ test = "/subject=""test""" $ mail nla0: jfmezei &test %DCL-W-MAXPARM, too many parameters - reenter command with fewer parameters \/subject="test"\ $ c MAIL only expects 2 arguments, and qualifiers. What mail sees is 3 arguments: nla0: jfmezei and the value inside test. $ mail nla0: system 'test New mail on node CHAIN from CHAIN::SYSTEM $ This works because 'test is substituted first, and mail then sees: nla0: system and then the qualifier /subject="test" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:43:05 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: ampersand in DCL script Message-ID: <48511ba7$0$20613$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: > btw... kids, don't try this at home : $read/key=x sys$input y What happens when you tell a kid NOT to do something ? %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode Ok, so out of curiosity, how come doesn't generate and end of file condition here ? And is there ANY way to stop this infinite loop short of closing that window or a stop/id ? ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 2008 13:22:48 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: ampersand in DCL script Message-ID: <48512328$0$7361$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <48511ba7$0$20613$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: > >> btw... kids, don't try this at home : $read/key=x sys$input y > >What happens when you tell a kid NOT to do something ? > >%RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode >{...snip...} >%RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode > >Ok, so out of curiosity, how come doesn't generate and end of >file condition here ? > >And is there ANY way to stop this infinite loop short of closing that >window or a stop/id ? Hint: Take a look where the code is executing from another session. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:38:07 -0400 From: "Ken Robinson" Subject: Re: ampersand in DCL script Message-ID: <7dd80f60806120638v6b8ffb64o2e89571226cbfead@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 11:31 PM, kiwi-red wrote: > Looking through some code that I am trying to debug and I came > across the following. Can't figure out why its been done. > > Anyone got any suggestions? > Sorry if I am being a bit vague As Rob mentioned you can use the "&" with the PIPE command. A more interesting example for this group would be how to get the CPU busy value in DCL. (an often asked question) $ pipe mon/disp/end="+0:0:03"/int=1 sys | sear sys$pipe "cpu busy" | - ( read sys$pipe line ; busy = f$ele(1,"(",f$ele(0,")",line)) ; def/job/nolog busy &busy ) $ busy = f$trn("busy") $ deas/job busy You now have the percent cpu busy figure from Monitor in the symbol "busy". This number needs to be divided by the number of CPUs on your system if you don't want to see numbers bigger than 100%. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:05:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: ampersand in DCL script Message-ID: On Jun 12, 8:43=A0am, JF Mezei wrote: > Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote: > > > btw... kids, don't try this at home : $read/key=3Dx sys$input y > > What happens when you tell a kid NOT to do something ? > > %RMS-F-RAC, invalid record access mode : > > Ok, so out of curiosity, how come doesn't generate and end of > file condition here ? Because the read is not actually started. No IO takes place. RMS looks at the RAB, sees RAB$C_KEY set in RAB$B_RAC for a non-key access file and stops it right there. There are many errors like that, where retrying will not work, but mostly they are development time errors. While there are patterns in the RMS error codes, they are not clear/ strong enough to code against. You could envision a list of restartable, IO activated, errors (RTB,TMO,TNS,BES,PES,NET,...?) but that's not how it is done. > And is there ANY way to stop this infinite loop short of closing that > window or a stop/id ? Just stop/id. Hein. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 2008 12:03:13 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: ampersand in DCL script Message-ID: <5lMyCSCahg+D@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <74b17c72-2f0e-42a6-8ef2-b2b2275dc1d5@q27g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, kiwi-red writes: > Looking through some code that I am trying to debug and I came > across the following. Can't figure out why its been done. > > Anyone got any suggestions? Read the DCL manual? > Sorry if I am being a bit vague & has a similar function to '. Each causes substitution of a symbol. Substitution by & is delayed, which many be necessary under some circumstances. There may also be circumstances where ' is necessary in order to prevent delay of substitution. In practice I've seen & be needed in a situation that involved passing parameters from one .COM file to another. If delay of substitution is not an issue, &symbol and 'symbol are just alternate syntax for symbol substitution. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 12:58:32 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Birthday Message-ID: In article <8660a3a10806112106j6014b045ve50f475101c671b1@mail.gmail.com>, "William Webb" writes: > who still is utterly amazed at the backflips of logic that must be > required in order to believe that liberating fifty million people from > tyrannical regimes that mutilated women, oppressed minorities and > trampled on the human rights of the people they ruled can be seen as > the wrong thing to have done. The CURRENT government of Afghanistan, under President Karsai, has carried out the death penalty several times. Not only for murder etc, but also for someone deciding he no longer wanted to be a Moslem. There is a guy on death row right now for insulting Mohammed (due to some text from the internet he printed out). The constitution declares the land to be an Islamic Republic, i.e. there is no separation of church and state. The constitution makes a few nods to freedom of speech etc, but that freedom is overruled by decrees against humiliating the Prophet etc. Any crime not explicitly mentioned in the new legal code is allowed to be dealt with via the Sharia, which often happens in practice. Maybe a step up from the Taliban, but a small one. Since the various countries there are in a position to demand more in the way of human rights, freedom, "western-style democracy" etc, the question is, why don't they do so? As long as they don't, those who claim, rightly or wrongly, that the REAL reason for the presence of soldiers from various countries there is something else entirely cannot be quickly dismissed. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:26:50 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Birthday Message-ID: <_eidnfjbKK0PuczVnZ2dnUVZ_sPinZ2d@comcast.com> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > In article > <8660a3a10806112106j6014b045ve50f475101c671b1@mail.gmail.com>, "William > Webb" writes: > >> who still is utterly amazed at the backflips of logic that must be >> required in order to believe that liberating fifty million people from >> tyrannical regimes that mutilated women, oppressed minorities and >> trampled on the human rights of the people they ruled can be seen as >> the wrong thing to have done. > > The CURRENT government of Afghanistan, under President Karsai, has > carried out the death penalty several times. Not only for murder etc, > but also for someone deciding he no longer wanted to be a Moslem. There > is a guy on death row right now for insulting Mohammed (due to some text > from the internet he printed out). The constitution declares the land > to be an Islamic Republic, i.e. there is no separation of church and > state. The constitution makes a few nods to freedom of speech etc, but > that freedom is overruled by decrees against humiliating the Prophet > etc. Any crime not explicitly mentioned in the new legal code is > allowed to be dealt with via the Sharia, which often happens in > practice. > > Maybe a step up from the Taliban, but a small one. Since the various > countries there are in a position to demand more in the way of human > rights, freedom, "western-style democracy" etc, the question is, why > don't they do so? As long as they don't, those who claim, rightly or > wrongly, that the REAL reason for the presence of soldiers from various > countries there is something else entirely cannot be quickly dismissed. > Perhaps they like or want the status quo? Just because WE have a republican form of government, elect our leaders, and have a constitution that guarantees freedom of religion does NOT mean that everyone does, or should, want the same thing. The people of other nations may not find our form of government suitable for their needs and wants! Or, perhaps, they don't need or want it enough to pay the price! ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 2008 13:36:43 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Birthday Message-ID: <4851266b$0$7361$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: >In article ><8660a3a10806112106j6014b045ve50f475101c671b1@mail.gmail.com>, "William >Webb" writes: > >> who still is utterly amazed at the backflips of logic that must be >> required in order to believe that liberating fifty million people from >> tyrannical regimes that mutilated women, oppressed minorities and >> trampled on the human rights of the people they ruled can be seen as >> the wrong thing to have done. > >The CURRENT government of Afghanistan, under President Karsai, has >carried out the death penalty several times. Not only for murder etc, >but also for someone deciding he no longer wanted to be a Moslem. There >is a guy on death row right now for insulting Mohammed (due to some text >from the internet he printed out). The constitution declares the land >to be an Islamic Republic, i.e. there is no separation of church and >state. The constitution makes a few nods to freedom of speech etc, but Like that US Constitution thing. >that freedom is overruled by decrees against humiliating the Prophet >etc. Any crime not explicitly mentioned in the new legal code is >allowed to be dealt with via the Sharia, which often happens in >practice. I'm going to guess that Afghanistan won't soon be a signator to the UDHR. >Maybe a step up from the Taliban, but a small one. Since the various >countries there are in a position to demand more in the way of human >rights, freedom, "western-style democracy" etc, the question is, why >don't they do so? As long as they don't, those who claim, rightly or >wrongly, that the REAL reason for the presence of soldiers from various >countries there is something else entirely cannot be quickly dismissed. Religion is a sham! One of the first steps toward true freedom will be to free the world of this antiquated puerile nonsense called religion -- ALL RELIGION. Imagine! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:04:52 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Birthday Message-ID: <48512e66$0$7272$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > Religion is a sham! One of the first steps toward true freedom will be > to free the world of this antiquated puerile nonsense called religion -- > ALL RELIGION. Imagine! What the current crop of US politicians don't understand is that you can't "impose" the right to choose, you can't "impose" democracy, and you can't "impose" full rights and freedoms on a society. These things must come from within. Iran was doing quite well and greatly improving until Bush decided to include it in its axis of evil and routinely accuse Iran of this and that, at which point Iran got on the defensive and stopped its progress because they would never ever wish to be seen as complying with the wishes of the USA. Britain just passed a law allowing them to detain anyone without charge for up to 42 days. US ambassador to Canada clearly stated a couple years ago that foreigners no longer have any rights in the USA (while defending the fact that the USA kidnapped a number of canadians to either be sent to be tortured and/or detained at the gantanamo concentration camp without charge or due legal process for YEARS) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:15:59 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Birthday Message-ID: In article <_eidnfjbKK0PuczVnZ2dnUVZ_sPinZ2d@comcast.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > Just because WE have a republican form of government, elect our leaders, > and have a constitution that guarantees freedom of religion does NOT > mean that everyone does, or should, want the same thing. The people of > other nations may not find our form of government suitable for their > needs and wants! Or, perhaps, they don't need or want it enough to pay > the price! True, but "making the world safe for democracy" is the justification one hears for the troops being in Afghanistan. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 2008 11:56:52 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Birthday Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > True, but "making the world safe for democracy" is the justification one > hears for the troops being in Afghanistan. I think you have Afghanistan and Iraq mixed up. No matter what else is said by who about either, invading and staying in Afghanistan is a direct consequence of 9/11, and Iraq is not. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 2008 11:54:49 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Birthday Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > Since the various > countries there are in a position to demand more in the way of human > rights, freedom, "western-style democracy" etc, the question is, why > don't they do so? Having a free, independent democracy does not mean being forced to take up someone else's life style, laws, religion, and customs. While I, too, think the death penalty is not warranted in the cases you cite, I also recognise wrongfull deaths in the history of every western democracy. A death sentence for violating Islamic law is, to me, no worse than a death sentence for violating Christian law, as was handed down on cases of witchcraft or women wearing men's clothing. Followers of both religions call for death penalties for killing, which many agree with, and for other violations that many disagree with. Some folks don't agree with the death penalty for any reason. The fact that western democracies don't currently rush to the death penalty quite as fast as they used to demonstrates the evolution of social concious that a free society makes possible. No society will make that turn overnight. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 01:00:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Naveen Subject: booting of remote vxts with host system Message-ID: <8890758b-e5ac-46e5-8112-7653d82aacc2@z16g2000prn.googlegroups.com> Dear members, I have 14 VXT terminals (vxt 2000+) which boots from 2 infoservers(infoserver sw1000). Each infoserver has hard- disk (DK3:) which contains booting software for these vxts. We have five Host system ( DS-20E )which is operating with VMS 7.3-1 .My host systems are not in a cluster. We want to remove infoservers and put booting softwares of vxts to our host system. Booting software of VXTs are of version 2.1 which is on hard-disk (DK3:) of infoservers. Each infoserver has one hard-disk (device name is DK3:) Some X-session applications are running of these remote Vxts. So please help us to boot these vxts from our host systems,because we don't have spare infoserver. If possible, we can go for complete replacement of infoserver and vxts. So please help us. Thanx in advance. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 01:46:44 -0700 (PDT) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: booting of remote vxts with host system Message-ID: <8adb18d3-7acd-4702-bb9f-d465e6297129@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> On Jun 12, 9:00 am, Naveen wrote: > Dear members, > I have 14 VXT terminals (vxt 2000+) which > boots from 2 infoservers(infoserver sw1000). Each infoserver has hard- > disk (DK3:) which contains booting software for these vxts. We have > five Host system > ( DS-20E )which is operating with VMS 7.3-1 .My host systems are not > in a cluster. We want to remove infoservers and put booting softwares > of vxts to our host system. Booting software of VXTs are of version > 2.1 which is on hard-disk (DK3:) of infoservers. Each infoserver has > one hard-disk (device name is DK3:) > Some X-session applications are running of these remote Vxts. > > So please help us to boot these vxts from our host systems,because we > don't have spare infoserver. If possible, we can go for complete > replacement of infoserver and vxts. So please help us. > > Thanx in advance. You can run INFOSERVER on VMS now so could replace the infoserver hardware with a software infoserver on a VMS host. However you will have to upgrade your VMS. What are you using the VXT for? Perhaps a minimal PC with some stripped down version of an OS and a X server could be built, ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 11:53:07 +0100 From: baldrick Subject: Re: booting of remote vxts with host system Message-ID: <-P2dnY7AHdmBnczVnZ2dnUVZ8hmdnZ2d@posted.plusnet> IanMiller wrote: > On Jun 12, 9:00 am, Naveen wrote: >... >> Some X-session applications are running of these remote Vxts. >> >> So please help us to boot these vxts from our host systems,because we >> don't have spare infoserver. If possible, we can go for complete >> replacement of infoserver and vxts. So please help us. ... > What are you using the VXT for? Perhaps a minimal PC with some > stripped down version of an OS and a X server could be built, good suggestion Ian. I'd suggest one of the linux distributions, they run X quite well, i find the security setup however a bit tricky but that is more likely me not being familiar. (using mandrake when i was trying this in anger, I know it's EOLed now). ideally you'd have something that booted into just being a foreign window server (the way the VXT's work) -- nclews at csc dot com aka Mr. CP Charges ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:05:16 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: booting of remote vxts with host system Message-ID: Naveen schrieb: > If possible, we can go for complete > replacement of infoserver and vxts. So please help us. You might look at (Linux-based) thin clients: http://www.igel.com/ They are not quite as simple as the good-old X-terminals, but certainly need less administration than a fat PC client. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:06:43 -0700 (PDT) From: johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: booting of remote vxts with host system Message-ID: <5693825b-9e9a-403b-8ed8-b9fef1cf7a4e@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Jun 12, 11:53 am, baldrick wrote: > IanMiller wrote: > > On Jun 12, 9:00 am, Naveen wrote: > >... > >> Some X-session applications are running of these remote Vxts. > > >> So please help us to boot these vxts from our host systems,because we > >> don't have spare infoserver. If possible, we can go for complete > >> replacement of infoserver and vxts. So please help us. > ... > > What are you using the VXT for? Perhaps a minimal PC with some > > stripped down version of an OS and a X server could be built, > > good suggestion Ian. I'd suggest one of the linux distributions, they > run X quite well, i find the security setup however a bit tricky but > that is more likely me not being familiar. (using mandrake when i was > trying this in anger, I know it's EOLed now). ideally you'd have > something that booted into just being a foreign window server (the way > the VXT's work) > > -- > nclews at csc dot com aka Mr. CP Charges In addition to a generic Linux... it might perhaps be worth looking specifically at the "Linux Terminal Server Project". I'm not sure where it's at these days, but it was featured at one of my local Linux User Group's sessions a year or three back, and this kind of setup is home ground for it. The systems house presenting were talking about a project where they replaced the "mainframe" and the "green screen" devices at a UK tool hire shop chain. It was an hour or two into the presentation before I realised that the "mainframe" was a VMS cluster and the desktop devices had been VTs. hth John ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 2008 12:08:15 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: booting of remote vxts with host system Message-ID: In article <8890758b-e5ac-46e5-8112-7653d82aacc2@z16g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, Naveen writes: > Dear members, > I have 14 VXT terminals (vxt 2000+) which > boots from 2 infoservers(infoserver sw1000). Each infoserver has hard- > disk (DK3:) which contains booting software for these vxts. We have > five Host system > ( DS-20E )which is operating with VMS 7.3-1 .My host systems are not > in a cluster. We want to remove infoservers and put booting softwares > of vxts to our host system. Booting software of VXTs are of version > 2.1 which is on hard-disk (DK3:) of infoservers. Each infoserver has > one hard-disk (device name is DK3:) > Some X-session applications are running of these remote Vxts. How much RAM do you have in these VXT? You can boot VXT from a great many servers, but VXT have virtual memory ONLY if you boot from an Infoserver. Current versions of VMS have Infoserver functionality built in and may be able to provide virtual memory services, but only if you use the infoserver functionality. I prefer to keep my Infoserver going. Since it doesn't speak IP I don't worry about external network security (anything not IP is blocked at the first router). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:47:46 -0700 (PDT) From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Chuck Norris says "Drill now in America for oil" Message-ID: we have 68 billion barrels of oil sitting in this country but the democrats who are in bed with the environmentalists will not allow drilling ... well, my family and this country is more important than snails or owls, and Chcuk Norris agrees ... http://youtube.com/watch?v=cXOdI5XzcM0&feature=related ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 05:26:43 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: DS10L clock battery question Message-ID: <61b31$4850e91e$cef8887a$29111@TEKSAVVY.COM> Slightly related question: With a DS10L with the power switch physically pressed in, but with the RMC having issued a "POWER OFF": If there is a power failure, upon power returning, the unit will fully power on and boot. I can edit the SRM "nvram" script to change from autoboot to "halt" so it remains at the chevron. (remember to stand back when chevron 7 is encoded). Anyone know if there is a way to tell the RMC to not power on the unit when power is first applied ? If the SHUTDOWN.COM "POWER OFF" option does not work on the DS10L, does this mean that there is absolutely no way to power the unit off via software ? ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 2008 11:43:59 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: FTP client: stripping version numbers and forcing lowercase on MPUT Message-ID: In article <66c27623-750a-41c0-931f-76410de2506d@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, Dick Piccard writes: > We will soon be in a situation where we want to transfer about 30,000 > files (in about 2,000 directories and subdirectories) from a VMS > server to a linux server. Life will be simpler if we can set things > up so that the version numbers will be stripped and all letters in > file and directory names forced to lowercase. I did not see anything > in the HELP that looked promising. > > HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.4 - ECO 7 > on a AlphaServer DS10 617 MHz running OpenVMS V7.3-2 > > It is quite acceptable if this requires stopping,re-setting, and re- > starting the FTP service in a specific way. I could come in during > our maintenance window and re-start TCPIP if that is needed. Assuming you don't need to keep any but the highest versions, simply using zip or tar is likely to do everything you need. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:44:08 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Graphics Board Message-ID: I have an Intense 3D MSMT440 graphics board made by Intergraph, which I pulled out of an ES40 that had been running Tru64. It looks pretty 'intense' :-) don't know if it works with VMS. Matbe Fred knows? If interested contact me offline. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:04:08 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: Interesting job ad from HP Message-ID: middie1975@gmail.com schrieb: > Really? I completely disagree, but you're certainly entitled to your > opinion. > I'm surrounded by Windows boxes every day, and I've yet to see one > that's doing much of anything meaningful (in a realtime application) > run for years, let alone months, without a reboot. I have a hard > time even imagining such a thing. But, maybe it happens. Unfortunately, yes. It's still crapware, I think, but the notion that Windoze boxes need 3 reboots per day is an urban legend which - if ever - was true at W3.1 times, but not nowadays. Set up properly, running a single app and with restricted user access such a box can run unattended for a long time. I think a certain Bill G. (not the one from Redmond :-) might second here. I think one can safely bury the notion that plain uptime is a key advantage of VMS, if it ever was. It isn't. If not windoze, Unix/Linux certainly is on par. > We've never said such a thing was impossible at our plant. But, we do > have a few apps (without source code) on a couple of our systems that > will make moving to ANY other OS or hardware platform difficult. At > the present time, we have no plans to move away from VMS. It is > still the heart of many of our systems. So you are already in a somewhat uncomfortable situation. With essentially unsupported apps and the only key advantage not really true, you may face pressure from upper management to move off. If you feel comfortable, that's fine with me, but your arguments vs management may turn out to be a bit weak. That was my point. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:53:47 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: Interesting job ad from HP Message-ID: yyyc186 schrieb: > No, you cannot get 24x7 with Windoze or most flavors of Eunics. Of course you can. Happens all the time. Over here I see former VMS bigots replacing VMS by HA-Linux. No problem as far as I can see. A Unix box usually stays alive as long as it is connected to the power line. > You > get what people fraudulently call 24x7 which ends up really being > 21x6.change. > > In order to get and keep 24x7, you need a full cluster with a > distributed lock manager. Take eBay or Google for example, they run 24x7 but VMS-free AFAIK. > You need the kind of cluster where one > entire location can be physically destroyed by fire and the cluster > keeps running. Didn't you learn anything from the trading companies > that were in the Twin Towers on September 11? Those running a > distributed OpenVMS cluster continued trading until the close of > market without losing a single transaction, even after losing an > entire site. Most of the rest went down and never went back into > business. If I were in the TwinTowers, the least thing I would have worried about would have been lost business. And just how probable is such an event ? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:24:42 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Interesting job ad from HP Message-ID: Michael Kraemer wrote: > middie1975@gmail.com schrieb: > >> Really? I completely disagree, but you're certainly entitled to your >> opinion. >> I'm surrounded by Windows boxes every day, and I've yet to see one >> that's doing much of anything meaningful (in a realtime application) >> run for years, let alone months, without a reboot. I have a hard >> time even imagining such a thing. But, maybe it happens. > > Unfortunately, yes. It's still crapware, I think, > but the notion that Windoze boxes need 3 reboots per day > is an urban legend which - if ever - was true at W3.1 times, > but not nowadays. Set up properly, running a single app > and with restricted user access such a box can run unattended > for a long time. My desktop PC, Windows XP SP2, runs for weeks between reboots. Reboots are usually forced by a power outrage lasting longer than the run time of my UPS. It's still crapware but we've come a LONG way since Windoze 3.1! YMMV! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:31:33 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Interesting job ad from HP Message-ID: Michael Kraemer wrote: > yyyc186 schrieb: > >> No, you cannot get 24x7 with Windoze or most flavors of Eunics. > > Of course you can. Happens all the time. > Over here I see former VMS bigots replacing VMS by > HA-Linux. No problem as far as I can see. > A Unix box usually stays alive as long as > it is connected to the power line. > >> You >> get what people fraudulently call 24x7 which ends up really being >> 21x6.change. >> >> In order to get and keep 24x7, you need a full cluster with a >> distributed lock manager. > > Take eBay or Google for example, > they run 24x7 but VMS-free AFAIK. > >> You need the kind of cluster where one >> entire location can be physically destroyed by fire and the cluster >> keeps running. Didn't you learn anything from the trading companies >> that were in the Twin Towers on September 11? Those running a >> distributed OpenVMS cluster continued trading until the close of >> market without losing a single transaction, even after losing an >> entire site. Most of the rest went down and never went back into >> business. > > If I were in the TwinTowers, the least thing I would have worried about > would have been lost business. > And just how probable is such an event ? > Seven years ago we would have said "Impossible!". Now, we know better. I no longer care to fly anywhere. The good guys can't carry so much as a pocket screwdriver. The bad guys get whatever they can sneak past the inspection! ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 2008 10:39:30 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Interesting job ad from HP Message-ID: In article <029b45ed$1$25049$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > > You don't need an F18. You need a plane with certain functions/capabilities. > > When a better plane comes along, you gradually replace your fleet with > the newer plane. OK, so if you need the functions and capabilities of an F18 you don't count a C-172 as a better plane. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 2008 10:41:02 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Interesting job ad from HP Message-ID: In article , Michael Kraemer writes: > > I don't think VMS makes a big difference here. > 24x7 you can have with any platform these days, even Windoze. ROTFLOL! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:52:30 -0700 (PDT) From: johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Interesting job ad from HP Message-ID: <4e5c0acb-4118-4637-88e6-6ff31f14e922@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Jun 11, 10:55 pm, "middie1...@gmail.com" wrote: > On Jun 11, 1:48 am, Michael Kraemer wrote: > > > > > yyyc186 schrieb: > > > > It might be a response to some rumors I've heard in the steel > > > industry. Virtually all of the steel mills use some form of DEC OS, > > > from PDP all the way through Itanic. There have been some serious > > > grumblings there about the level of service VMS is receiving and the > > > level of commitment on the part of HP. If just a couple of the global > > > steel companies banded together, they could do a hostile take over of > > > HP that the HP family could not defend against. > > > When your down time > > > is measured in tens of thousands of dollars per second, you don't take > > > lightly someone messing with a tool you've used for years. > > > Highly unlikely, IMHO. From the perspective of the respective CEOs, > > the actual OS in the control rooms is just a minor detail, > > a single component among many others. It's the IT division > > leader's job to fix downtime issues on his own. > > If he can't, he'll be fired. In this situation, it's > > more likely that he will switch to another platform which > > receives better attention, rather than trying to convince > > his higher-ups to launch a - probably very expensive - take-over. > > $1xx Bn to save an OS with (probably) less than $1Bn annual revenue ? > > > When IBM started to "mistreat" OS/2, did banks and insurance > > even think about taking over IBM ? Absurd idea. > > I tend to agree that the idea of a steel or aluminum company taking > over HP seems a stretch to me. I'm guessing that most at HP would > acknowledge knowing virtually nothing about the metals industry, and > similarly it's doubtful that many in the metals area know much about > the high-tech computing business. Doesn't sound like a good marriage > to me. But, then again, I once worked for a steel company that > thought it knew something about the insurance business -- and it was a > very costly, and almost fatal, mistake for them. > > However, having worked for two US steel companies and one aluminum > company over my 30 year career in process automation, I confidently > can state that many metals companies (worldwide) have staked, and > continue to stake, their current businesses on VMS -- whether their > upper management knows it or not. I suspect that most in the upper > echelons of these companies do not know VMS from a hole in the wall, > nor should they necessarily be expected to. As you said, to some, > the OS in the control room is only a "minor detail". The managers > simply and rightfully expect everything in the control rooms to > function, 24 by 7 in our case. To me, and to most of the readers > here, the OS is definitely not a minor detail. It's a very important > part of our livelihood, and a big part of that "24 by 7" requirement. > But, it all depends on perspective. To those that run the company, > the OS is a very small part, and one that's virtually invisible to > them most of the time. To replace VMS with another flavor of OS > would mean not only a huge investment in custom application software > re-writes (which we have not budgeted for), but would most probably > make our systems much less reliable (as the 24 by 7 turns into > something different). > > In our company, no one in the IT department does anything with VMS. > They know the name, but they associate VMS with systems on the factory > floor. The process automation group takes care of the equipment on > the plant floor, and VMS is a key part of that world. Without VMS, > we don't produce a product -- simple as that. And, it's been that > way at my places of employment (both steel & aluminum) for that past > 20+ years. I don't see that changing anytime soon. > > Before VMS, it was Modcomp computers.... but, that's a whole > different story. I think a few folks who don't know the steel (and paper) industries, maybe others, are missing an important part of the picture here. In these factories, 24x7 is necessary, but it is not sufficient. There are folks who will claim that Windows can do 24x7. Opinions vary, let's stick that subject to one side. In process manufacturing industries like steel and paper, which is what we're talking here, VMS systems and applications are/were often **in the REAL TIME control loop** (they certainly were when I was dealing with that part of the trade). What this means is that a measurement from (e.g.) a high speed rolling mill needs to go through the application and be processed before going back out again as a control signal, reliably, 24x7. And it had to do that in a input-to-output timescale of tens or (if you're lucky) hundreds of milliseconds. ALL THE TIME. To fail to do so either results in poor quality (unsaleable) product, or (not infrequently) seriously expensive damage to the rolling mill or whatever. This is not some query/response application, ticket booking, whatever, where a 1-2second response time blip is acceptable from time to time, where "Windows 24x7" might arguably fit the Bill. This kind of complex real time control was nice safe comfortable territory for folks who had VMS and a clue. Maybe not mainstream VMS territory, but definitely comfortable enough to "bet your business" on back then. There are probably people Sue knows who have been doing this for literally decades. It is simply not credible to talk about doing this kind of thing on Windows, anyone who says otherwise needs to be immediately escorted out of the factory. There are real time OSes which will do the real time bit, but they likely won't also run real apps on the same box. VMS could (can?) do both, more than adequately, on one box or many boxes (or many partitions in one box, or...), subject to adequate levels of clue in the system+application design team. It's not exactly a huge market though, especially given that dedicated automation systems are smarter than they were 20 years ago, and that levels of clue are seemingly a lot lower than they were 20 years ago. 2p John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:31:29 +0000 (UTC) From: m.kraemer@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) Subject: Re: Interesting job ad from HP Message-ID: In article <4e5c0acb-4118-4637-88e6-6ff31f14e922@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk writes: > > What this means is that a measurement from (e.g.) a high speed rolling > mill needs to go through the application and be processed before going > back out again as a control signal, reliably, 24x7. And it had to do > that in a input-to-output timescale of tens or (if you're lucky) > hundreds of milliseconds. ALL THE TIME. > > To fail to do so either results in poor quality (unsaleable) product, > or (not infrequently) seriously expensive damage to the rolling mill > or whatever. This is not some query/response application, ticket > booking, whatever, where a 1-2second response time blip is acceptable > from time to time, where "Windows 24x7" might arguably fit the Bill. Thanks for the additional information. Of course I would not recommend Windoze to replace the old environment, let alone using it for real-time stuff. But the given reason that it can't do it, because it can't run 24x7 is simply wrong and hence a very weak argument if you want to defend VMS. However, there is quite a bunch of dedicated real-time systems which could be used, such as VxWorks, LynxOS, OS-9, QNX, and in recent years even RT versions of Linux. > It is simply not credible to talk about doing this kind of thing on > Windows, anyone who says otherwise needs to be immediately escorted > out of the factory. There are real time OSes which will do the real > time bit, but they likely won't also run real apps on the same box. LynxOS feels like a stripped down Unix, but OS-9 and QNX should be complete enough to run real apps. ISTR that at least QNX even has GUI (Photon ?) ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 08 13:35:53 EDT From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) Subject: Re: Interesting job ad from HP Message-ID: In article <4e5c0acb-4118-4637-88e6-6ff31f14e922@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk writes: > On Jun 11, 10:55 pm, "middie1...@gmail.com" > wrote: >> On Jun 11, 1:48 am, Michael Kraemer wrote: >> >> >> > yyyc186 schrieb: >> >> > > It might be a response to some rumors I've heard in the steel >> > > industry. Virtually all of the steel mills use some form of DEC OS, >> > > from PDP all the way through Itanic. There have been some serious >> > > grumblings there about the level of service VMS is receiving and the >> > > level of commitment on the part of HP. If just a couple of the global >> > > steel companies banded together, they could do a hostile take over of >> > > HP that the HP family could not defend against. >> > > When your down time >> > > is measured in tens of thousands of dollars per second, you don't take >> > > lightly someone messing with a tool you've used for years. >> >> > Highly unlikely, IMHO. From the perspective of the respective CEOs, >> > the actual OS in the control rooms is just a minor detail, >> > a single component among many others. It's the IT division >> > leader's job to fix downtime issues on his own. >> > If he can't, he'll be fired. In this situation, it's >> > more likely that he will switch to another platform which >> > receives better attention, rather than trying to convince >> > his higher-ups to launch a - probably very expensive - take-over. >> > $1xx Bn to save an OS with (probably) less than $1Bn annual revenue ? >> >> > When IBM started to "mistreat" OS/2, did banks and insurance >> > even think about taking over IBM ? Absurd idea. >> >> I tend to agree that the idea of a steel or aluminum company taking >> over HP seems a stretch to me. I'm guessing that most at HP would >> acknowledge knowing virtually nothing about the metals industry, and >> similarly it's doubtful that many in the metals area know much about >> the high-tech computing business. Doesn't sound like a good marriage >> to me. But, then again, I once worked for a steel company that >> thought it knew something about the insurance business -- and it was a >> very costly, and almost fatal, mistake for them. >> >> However, having worked for two US steel companies and one aluminum >> company over my 30 year career in process automation, I confidently >> can state that many metals companies (worldwide) have staked, and >> continue to stake, their current businesses on VMS -- whether their >> upper management knows it or not. I suspect that most in the upper >> echelons of these companies do not know VMS from a hole in the wall, >> nor should they necessarily be expected to. As you said, to some, >> the OS in the control room is only a "minor detail". The managers >> simply and rightfully expect everything in the control rooms to >> function, 24 by 7 in our case. To me, and to most of the readers >> here, the OS is definitely not a minor detail. It's a very important >> part of our livelihood, and a big part of that "24 by 7" requirement. >> But, it all depends on perspective. To those that run the company, >> the OS is a very small part, and one that's virtually invisible to >> them most of the time. To replace VMS with another flavor of OS >> would mean not only a huge investment in custom application software >> re-writes (which we have not budgeted for), but would most probably >> make our systems much less reliable (as the 24 by 7 turns into >> something different). >> >> In our company, no one in the IT department does anything with VMS. >> They know the name, but they associate VMS with systems on the factory >> floor. The process automation group takes care of the equipment on >> the plant floor, and VMS is a key part of that world. Without VMS, >> we don't produce a product -- simple as that. And, it's been that >> way at my places of employment (both steel & aluminum) for that past >> 20+ years. I don't see that changing anytime soon. >> >> Before VMS, it was Modcomp computers.... but, that's a whole >> different story. > > I think a few folks who don't know the steel (and paper) industries, > maybe others, are missing an important part of the picture here. > > In these factories, 24x7 is necessary, but it is not sufficient. There > are folks who will claim that Windows can do 24x7. Opinions vary, > let's stick that subject to one side. > > In process manufacturing industries like steel and paper, which is > what we're talking here, VMS systems and applications are/were often > **in the REAL TIME control loop** (they certainly were when I was > dealing with that part of the trade). > > What this means is that a measurement from (e.g.) a high speed rolling > mill needs to go through the application and be processed before going > back out again as a control signal, reliably, 24x7. And it had to do > that in a input-to-output timescale of tens or (if you're lucky) > hundreds of milliseconds. ALL THE TIME. > > To fail to do so either results in poor quality (unsaleable) product, > or (not infrequently) seriously expensive damage to the rolling mill > or whatever. This is not some query/response application, ticket > booking, whatever, where a 1-2second response time blip is acceptable > from time to time, where "Windows 24x7" might arguably fit the Bill. There are also life safety issues. One of the first things they point out on a tour of a paper mill is the large enclosure suspended over each paper machine which automatically drops down if the paper breaks or jams. The paper is moving fast enough to cut a man in half. George Cook WVNET ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:40:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Sue Subject: OpenVMS Update - June 11 Message-ID: Dear Distribution lists, If you are attending the HP Technical Forum http://www.hptechnologyforum.com= / or the Software Universe http://h30350.www3.hp.com/event/ in Las Vegas next week can you please let me know. I will be there and would really like to see you. There will be a VMS SIG (Special Interest Group) meeting on Tuesday June 17 at 5:15 pm in Jasmine B. There is also a Connect booth (Encompass Booth) where a number of us will be meeting. A number of our VMS Partners will also be at HPTF and it is important that you show your support. You are the reason that they go to HPTF and have a booth. For the European readers please notice that there is a European HP User Event in Germany in November. Please see the Time Sensitive for the call for participation for sessions and exhibit space. Think of this as a European HPTF. OpenVMS will also be having a demo in both HPTF and Software Universe trade show. For folks that remember Signe Maximous she will be working the Linux demo in the same area as myself in the Software Universe. See you next week. Once again you will notice that I have reminded you to do the HP User survey. It matters what you say, in a few minutes you can impact HP and VMS in a huge way, please please take a few minutes of your time to do this. Every customer, partner and consultant should respond, no one is to big or to small. Thank you for being the wonderful people you are Sue Table of Contents 1.0 Time Sensitive - Very Important 1.1 User Survey 1.2 Europe Wide Technical Event in November 1.3 OpenVMS Technical Journal 2.0 Winners of the first annual OpenVMS.org Readers Choice Awards 3.0 Sue's Fav's 3.1 Technical Documentation 3.2 Itanium Solutions Alliance 3.3 Got Ada? 3.4 Camille's web site 4.0 VMS Partners 4.1 Case Study from our partner Connx (IGA and RMS) 4.2 PointSecure is pleased to announce the release of Migration Advisor 4.3 Download PointSecure's FREE OpenVMS Patch Analyzer 4.4 ISE EnterpriseBACKUP 4.5 MVP - JAMS 4.6 Emulex Expands SAN Connectivity Offerings for HP Integrity Servers 4.7 Migration Specialties - (Bruce Claremont) is interviewed 5.0 BRUDEN-OSSG Provides Big OpenVMS Performance Gains 6.0 Partner Press Release - Stromasys SA (ex-Software Resources International) Establishes Subsidiary in Asia Pacific region 7.0 VMS in the Press 8.0 Jobs ___________________________________________ 1.0 Time Sensitive - Very Important 1.1 The HP User Survey - The is very important that worldwide everyone input their opinions to HP. Visit www.hpadvocacysurvey.org to complete the survey. 1.2 HPTF IN EUROPE - Yes there will be a Tech Forum in Europe in November. The official name is the Community Connect Europe. There are speaking slots, a trade show. You need to submit sessions and reserve space NOW. Submit as session (CFP) http://www.communityconnecteurope.org/cfp.cfm. Reserve booth space http://www.communityconnecteurope.org/Exhibitors/index.c= fm For overall information and registration please visit http://www.communityconnecteurope.org/delegates/index.cfm 1.3 At this point we have two submissions for the June OpenVMS Technical Journal at this point if we do not receive at least 3 more article we will change the journal to once yearly. Since there is not enough article submissions to continue on a twice yearly basis. http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/cfp.html ___________________________________________ 2.0 Winners of the first annual OpenVMS.org Readers Choice Awards Security / Auditing: PointSecure, http://www.PointSecure.com Systems Management / Performance: Weaver Consulting Services, http://www.WeaverConsulting.ca Communications / Messaging: CommuniGate Systems, http://www.CommuniGate.com Services / Consulting: Hoffman Labs, http://www.HoffmanLabs.com Training: Bruden-OSSG, http://www.BrudenOSSG.com ______________________________________________ 3.0 Sue's Fav's - I always have favorites the HP OpenVMS Home page which gets new information daily http://h71000.www7.hp.com/ and www.openvms.org which is a VMS community managed site. We are very fortunate to have both. Please make sure that you visit them on a regular basis, once again you are why they work so hard. http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/t4/index.html Update to T4 now available for your use 3.1 http://docs.hp.com/ Technical Documentation ------------- 3.2 Itanium Solutions Alliance http://www.itaniumsolutionsalliance.org/hom= e - I visited this page and thought it was an interesting site, here is the first paragraph on the home page there are opportunities for membership. The Itanium=AE Solutions Alliance is a global community of hardware, operating system and application vendors dedicated to accelerating the adoption and ongoing development of Itanium=AE-based solutions. Formed in September 2005, the Alliance is comprised of some of the most influential companies in the computing industry with a shared strategic commitment to deliver enterprise and technical computing solutions based on Intel=AE Itanium=AE architecture. Membership includes Founders Bull, Fujitsu, Fujitsu Siemens Computers, Hitachi, HP, Intel, NEC, SGI and Unisys; and Charter Members BEA, Microsoft, Novell, Oracle, Red Hat, SAP, SAS and Sybase. ---------- 3.3 Got Ada? If your code base includes software developed under HP Ada (originally known as DEC Ada) for OpenVMS on either VAX or Alpha, AdaCore's GNAT Pro provides a natural migration path to Integrity servers. GNAT Pro for OpenVMS is a complete Ada development environment and toolset, supporting all three versions of the Ada language standard: Ada 83, Ada 95, and Ada 2005. Debugging is supplied through OpenVMS Debug, which HP has enhanced with Ada-specific functionality. The Application Program Interface includes the Ada standard predefined environment, a set of supplemental components supplied on all GNAT Pro platforms, and bindings to STARLET and other HP libraries. GNAT Pro is integrated into the OpenVMS environment and is highly compatible with HP Ada. A GNAT Pro subscription comes with comprehensive support, provided by the product developers themselves, and extensive documentation. The documentation includes guidance on porting code from HP Ada to GNAT Pro. Web resources: * www.adacore.com AdaCore corporate and product information * www.adacore.com/home/gnatpro/webinars/ Link to November 2007 webinar, "GNAT Pro for OpenVMS on HP Integrity servers" ----------------------------- 3.4 cool site that you will like http://www.es40.org/Events Camile hosted a birds of a feather discussion and has posted a boot camp review _________________________________________________ 4.0 Partners 4.1 Connx http://www.connx.com/products/casestudy/pdf/H.Y._Louie_Case_Study.= pdf - Case Study from our partner Connx (IGA and RMS) -------------------- 4.2 PointSecure is pleased to announce the release of Migration Advisor - comprehensive reporting to assist with migration planning. For more information visit 4.3 Download PointSecure's FREE OpenVMS Patch Analyzer ensure your systems are up to date with the latest patches from OpenVMS engineering. http://www.pointsecure.com/products/patch_anl.asp --------------------------- 4.4 ISE EnterpriseBACKUP - OpenVMS Backup and media management (ISE will be at HPTF) Besides OpenVMS system backup, EnterpriseBACKUP also provides and online media database. The MEDIA database is accessible on-line, allowing you to find any particular medium and what files it contains at any time, without having to mount each medium or rely on a manually updated information system. The database consists of information about every tape and removable disk or other storage device in the library http://www.i-s-e.com/products/enterpriseschedule/ ----------------------------- 4.5 MVP - JAMS - http://www.mvpsi.com/ The World's Best Job Scheduler! (JAMS will also be at HPTF) Available for Windows, OpenVMS and UNIX ----------------------------- 4.6 Emulex http://www.primenewswire.com/newsroom/news.html?d=3D143456 - Emulex Expands SAN Connectivity Offerings for HP Integrity Servers ----------------------------- 4.7 Migration Specialties - (Bruce Claremont) is interviewed nice article - http://chieftain.com/articles/2008/06/01/business/local/doc484202a6bc82d7973= 59452.txt __________________________________________________ 5.0 BRUDEN-OSSG Provides Big OpenVMS Performance Gains BRUDEN-OSSG recently worked with SSQ Financial Group (www.ssq.ca), from Quebec City in Canada, on a Java Proof of Concept for a move to Java on Integrity Server systems. In one test case with 4 threads, Java performance went from 1:49.69 of elapsed time on an ES80 with 4 CPUs to 0:38.16 on a 2 core RX2660. With additional application tuning, the Alpha performance improved to 0:38.16 elapsed time. While the Integrity Server performance, with half the CPUs, improved to 0:24.42 of elapsed time. In another test, a combination of system tuning and application environment tuning improved performance from over 1 hour of elapsed time to 2 minutes and 15 seconds. The improvement in elapsed time of over 25 times faster was amazing. In addition to the Java work, BRUDEN-OSSG helped SSQ improve the elapsed time of BACKUP with AES encryption performance by over 23%. For more information on Bruden-OSSG please visit http://www.brudenossg.com/ _________________________________________________ 6.0 Partner Press Release Stromasys SA (ex-Software Resources International) Establishes Subsidiary in Asia Pacific region In support of our rapidly growing business, Stromasys has established a wholly owned subsidiary to handle its activities in the Asia Pacific area. The subsidiary, Stromasys Asia Pacific Limited, is located in Hong Kong. This investment is in-line with our expansion strategy of increasing our market presence regionally and globally. The president of Stromasys Asia Pacific Limited, Mr. Tony C. Leung, has over 25 years of experience in the IT industry in sales and business management. Prior to joining Stromasys, he was the North Asia Director for Intel=E2 Solution Services and before that, he worked as the Asia Pacific / Japan Marketing Director for EMC Corporation for Intel. Tony also managed various start-up companies that focus in offering advanced IT systems to large enterprises in China and Hong Kong. Tony started as a software specialist with Digital Equipment Corp and progressed to have an 18 years career in sales, marketing and business management with Digital and Compaq. You can reach the new subsidiary at : Stromasys Asia Pacific Limited 2/F Eton Tower, 8 Hysan Avenue __________________________________________________________________ 7.0 VMS in the Press http://www.itjungle.com/two/two052808-story02.html Intel and Itanium Partners Gear Up for Quad-Core Tukwilas EMC adds VMware features to Exchange, SQL Server http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid5_gci1315595,00= .html http://www.itbusinessedge.com/blogs/atc/?p=3D386 Emulex Extends Integrity Support ____________________________________________________________________ 8.0 Jobs I noticed that on www.openvms.org that there is Sr. and Mid-level Cache MUMPS Developers needed ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:04:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: OpenVMS Update - June 11 Message-ID: <0e69e440-07c6-4b84-9492-b9a90e09ff5d@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Jun 12, 9:40 am, Sue wrote: > Dear Distribution lists, > > If you are attending the HP Technical Forumhttp://www.hptechnologyforum.co= m/ > or the Software Universehttp://h30350.www3.hp.com/event/ in Las > Vegas next week can you please let me know. I will be there and would > really like to see you. There will be a VMS SIG (Special Interest > Group) meeting on Tuesday June 17 at 5:15 pm in Jasmine B. There is > also a Connect booth (Encompass Booth) where a number of us will be > meeting. A number of our VMS Partners will also be at HPTF and it is > important that you show your support. You are the reason that they go > to HPTF and have a booth. For the European readers please notice that > there is a European HP User Event in Germany in November. Please see > the Time Sensitive for the call for participation for sessions and > exhibit space. Think of this as a European HPTF. > > OpenVMS will also be having a demo in both HPTF and Software Universe > trade show. For folks that remember Signe Maximous she will be > working the Linux demo in the same area as myself in the Software > Universe. See you next week. > > Once again you will notice that I have reminded you to do the HP User > survey. It matters what you say, in a few minutes you can impact HP > and VMS in a huge way, please please take a few minutes of your time > to do this. Every customer, partner and consultant should respond, no > one is to big or to small. > > Thank you for being the wonderful people you are > Sue > > Table of Contents > > 1.0 Time Sensitive - Very Important > 1.1 User Survey > 1.2 Europe Wide Technical Event in November > 1.3 OpenVMS Technical Journal > > 2.0 Winners of the first annual OpenVMS.org Readers Choice Awards > > 3.0 Sue's Fav's > 3.1 Technical Documentation > 3.2 Itanium Solutions Alliance > 3.3 Got Ada? > 3.4 Camille's web site > > 4.0 VMS Partners > 4.1 Case Study from our partner Connx (IGA and RMS) > 4.2 PointSecure is pleased to announce the release of Migration > Advisor > 4.3 Download PointSecure's FREE OpenVMS Patch Analyzer > 4.4 ISE EnterpriseBACKUP > 4.5 MVP - JAMS > 4.6 Emulex Expands SAN Connectivity Offerings for HP Integrity Servers > 4.7 Migration Specialties - (Bruce Claremont) is interviewed > > 5.0 BRUDEN-OSSG Provides Big OpenVMS Performance Gains > > 6.0 Partner Press Release - Stromasys SA (ex-Software Resources > International) Establishes Subsidiary in Asia Pacific region > > 7.0 VMS in the Press > > 8.0 Jobs > > ___________________________________________ > > 1.0 Time Sensitive - Very Important > > 1.1 The HP User Survey - The is very important that worldwide everyone > input their opinions to HP. > Visitwww.hpadvocacysurvey.orgto complete the survey. > > 1.2 HPTF IN EUROPE - Yes there will be a Tech Forum in Europe in > November. The official name is the Community Connect Europe. There > are speaking slots, a trade show. You need to submit sessions and > reserve space NOW. > > Submit as session (CFP) http://www.communityconnecteurope.org/cfp.cfm. > Reserve booth spacehttp://www.communityconnecteurope.org/Exhibitors/index.= cfm > > For overall information and registration please visithttp://www.communityc= onnecteurope.org/delegates/index.cfm > > 1.3 At this point we have two submissions for the June OpenVMS > Technical Journal at this point if we do not receive at least 3 more > article we will change the journal to once yearly. Since there is not > enough article submissions to continue on a twice yearly basis.http://h710= 00.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/cfp.html > > ___________________________________________ > > 2.0 Winners of the first annual OpenVMS.org Readers Choice Awards > > Security / Auditing: PointSecure,http://www.PointSecure.com > > Systems Management / Performance: Weaver Consulting Services,http://www.We= averConsulting.ca > > Communications / Messaging: CommuniGate Systems,http://www.CommuniGate.com= > > Services / Consulting: Hoffman Labs,http://www.HoffmanLabs.com > > Training: Bruden-OSSG,http://www.BrudenOSSG.com > ______________________________________________ > 3.0 Sue's Fav's - I always have favorites the HP OpenVMS Home page > which gets new information dailyhttp://h71000.www7.hp.com/ andwww.openvms.= orgwhich is a VMS community managed site. We are very > fortunate to have both. Please make sure that you visit them on a > regular basis, once again you are why they work so hard.http://h71000.www= 7.hp.com/openvms/products/t4/index.html Update to T4 > now available for your use > > 3.1 http://docs.hp.com/ Technical Documentation > ------------- > 3.2 Itanium Solutions Alliancehttp://www.itaniumsolutionsalliance.org/ho= me > - I visited this page and thought it was an interesting site, here is > the first paragraph on the home page there are opportunities for > membership. > The Itanium=AE Solutions Alliance is a global community of hardware, > operating system and application vendors dedicated to accelerating the > adoption and ongoing development of Itanium=AE-based solutions. Formed > in September 2005, the Alliance is comprised of some of the most > influential companies in the computing industry with a shared > strategic commitment to deliver enterprise and technical computing > solutions based on Intel=AE Itanium=AE architecture. Membership includes > Founders Bull, Fujitsu, Fujitsu Siemens Computers, Hitachi, HP, Intel, > NEC, SGI and Unisys; and Charter Members BEA, Microsoft, Novell, > Oracle, Red Hat, SAP, SAS and Sybase. > ---------- > 3.3 Got Ada? > If your code base includes software developed under HP Ada (originally > known as DEC Ada) for OpenVMS on either VAX or Alpha, AdaCore's GNAT > Pro provides a natural migration path to Integrity servers. > GNAT Pro for OpenVMS is a complete Ada development environment and > toolset, supporting all three versions of the Ada language standard: > Ada 83, Ada 95, and Ada 2005. Debugging is supplied through OpenVMS > Debug, which HP has enhanced with Ada-specific functionality. The > Application Program Interface includes the Ada standard predefined > environment, a set of supplemental components supplied on all GNAT Pro > platforms, and bindings to STARLET and other HP libraries. GNAT Pro > is integrated into the OpenVMS environment and is highly compatible > with HP Ada. > A GNAT Pro subscription comes with comprehensive support, provided by > the product developers themselves, and extensive documentation. The > documentation includes guidance on porting code from HP Ada to GNAT > Pro. > Web resources: > *www.adacore.com > AdaCore corporate and product information > *www.adacore.com/home/gnatpro/webinars/ > Link to November 2007 webinar, "GNAT Pro for OpenVMS on HP > Integrity servers" > ------------------------------ > 3.4 cool site that you will likehttp://www.es40.org/Events Camile > hosted a birds of a feather discussion and has posted a boot camp > review > > _________________________________________________ > 4.0 Partners > 4.1 Connxhttp://www.connx.com/products/casestudy/pdf/H.Y._Louie_Case_Study= .pdf > - Case Study from our partner Connx (IGA and RMS) > -------------------- > 4.2 PointSecure is pleased to announce the release of Migration > Advisor - comprehensive reporting to assist with migration planning. > For more information visit MigrationAdvisor.aspx> > 4.3 Download PointSecure's FREE OpenVMS Patch Analyzer ensure your > systems are up to date with the latest patches from OpenVMS > engineering.http://www.pointsecure.com/products/patch_anl.asp > --------------------------- > 4.4 ISE EnterpriseBACKUP - OpenVMS Backup and media management (ISE > will be at HPTF) > Besides OpenVMS system backup, EnterpriseBACKUP also provides and > online media database. The MEDIA database is accessible on-line, > allowing you to find any particular medium and what files it contains > at any time, without having to mount each medium or rely on a manually > updated information system. The database consists of information about > every tape and removable disk or other storage device in the libraryhttp:/= /www.i-s-e.com/products/enterpriseschedule/ > ----------------------------- > 4.5 MVP - JAMS -http://www.mvpsi.com/ The World's Best Job > Scheduler! (JAMS will also be at HPTF) > Available for Windows, OpenVMS and UNIX > ------------------------------ > 4.6 Emulexhttp://www.primenewswire.com/newsroom/news.html?d=3D143456- Emul= ex > Expands SAN Connectivity Offerings for HP Integrity Servers > ----------------------------- > 4.7 Migration Specialties - (Bruce Claremont) is interviewed nice > article -http://chieftain.com/articles/2008/06/01/business/local/doc484202= a6bc... > > __________________________________________________ > 5.0 BRUDEN-OSSG Provides Big OpenVMS Performance Gains > BRUDEN-OSSG recently worked with SSQ Financial Group (www.ssq.ca), > from Quebec City in Canada, on a Java Proof of Concept for a move to > Java on Integrity Server systems. In one test case with 4 threads, > Java performance went from 1:49.69 of elapsed time on an ES80 with 4 > CPUs to 0:38.16 on a 2 core RX2660. With additional application > tuning, the Alpha performance improved to 0:38.16 elapsed time. While > the Integrity Server performance, with half the CPUs, improved to > 0:24.42 of elapsed time. > In another test, a combination of system tuning and application > environment tuning improved performance from over 1 hour of elapsed > time to 2 minutes and 15 seconds. The improvement in elapsed time of > over 25 times faster was amazing. > In addition to the Java work, BRUDEN-OSSG helped SSQ improve the > elapsed time of BACKUP with AES encryption performance by over 23%. > > For more information on Bruden-OSSG please visithttp://www.brudenossg.com/= > _________________________________________________ > 6.0 Partner Press Release > Stromasys SA (ex-Software Resources International) Establishes > Subsidiary in Asia Pacific region > In support of our rapidly growing business, Stromasys has established > a wholly owned subsidiary to handle its activities in the Asia Pacific > area. The subsidiary, Stromasys Asia Pacific Limited, is located in > Hong Kong. This investment is in-line with our expansion strategy of > increasing our market presence regionally and globally. > The president of Stromasys Asia Pacific Limited, Mr. Tony C. Leung, > has over 25 years of experience in the IT industry in sales and > business management. Prior to joining Stromasys, he was the North Asia > Director for Intel=E2 Solution Services and before that, he worked as > the Asia Pacific / Japan Marketing Director for EMC Corporation for > Intel. Tony also managed various start-up companies that focus in > offering advanced IT systems to large enterprises in China and Hong > Kong. Tony started as a software specialist with Digital Equipment > Corp and progressed to have an 18 years career in sales, marketing and > business management with Digital and Compaq. > You can reach the new subsidiary at : > > Stromasys Asia Pacific Limited > 2/F Eton Tower, > 8 Hysan Avenue > __________________________________________________________________ > 7.0 VMS in the Presshttp://www.itjungle.com/two/two052808-story02.html Int= el and Itanium > Partners Gear Up for Quad-Core Tukwilas > EMC adds VMware features to Exchange, SQL Serverhttp://searchstorage.techt= arget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid5_gci131...http://www.itbusinessedge.com/= blogs/atc/?p=3D386Emulex Extends > Integrity Support > > ____________________________________________________________________ > 8.0 Jobs > I noticed that onwww.openvms.orgthat there is Sr. and Mid-level > Cache MUMPS Developers needed Thanks, Sue! BTW have you found out if you can release any info about the winner of the "oldest VMS system" contest from the 30th anniversary page? Even just generic info about the system itself would be interesting. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 2008 10:43:10 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: OpenVMS v8.3 on Integrity and DVD/CD Rewritable Drive (Model DRX-800UL) with Message-ID: In article , "David Turner, Island Computers" writes: > FYI we can provide an external USB/Firewire DVD-DL/CDRW for $169 > I've got that one slot on my DS10L and I'd like to also add a graphics card. Yeah, I know that's not what DS10L were built for. But the price was right. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:30:06 -0400 From: sol gongola Subject: Re: OT: What filtering does Hotmail use? Message-ID: <48512579$0$5007$607ed4bc@cv.net> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: > In article <6b8i41F37og03U3@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >> In article , >> Michael Austin writes: >>> David Turner, Island Computers wrote: >>>> STCTON10-1168104581.sdsl.bell.ca is the RDNS listing for your IP. >>>> It should be weaverconsulting.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> my guess is that his problem is the same as mine has always been. You >>> are being bounced because you are using Dynamic DNS or have not had >>> bell.ca add your static IP address as the RDNS. >>> >>> Most companies now reject anything that does not properly RDNS. Period. >>> Not only does it make it harder for spammers, it screws the legitimate >>> guys that want to maintain their own SMTP sites. Some ISP's (ATT, SBC, >>> etc....) now block ANY outbound port 25 traffic forcing you to use their >>> authenticated, SSL smtp server. >> As it should be!! If all networks, especially ISP's blocked port 25 for >> all machines except those specifically registered as email MTA's SPAM >> would quickly become almost non-existant. >> > It would definitely help with viruses but spammers would adapt. > Instead of the zombies sending directly they would send via the ISP's mailhub. > With viruses it is easy for the ISP just to scan outgoing mail for viruses > just as it should be doing for incoming mail. However scanning for outgoing > spam is more problematic. Spam detecting software is fairly error prone with > false positives and false negatives. Also there are lots of cases where > something might be spam if it was sent unrequested but unknown to the ISP's > mailhub the recipient had explicitly requested it. When you scan incoming mail > you can cater for these possibilities by tagging, quarantining and allowing > your users to set up their own whitelists. It's difficult to do that when the > recipients are external to your organisation (and in my experience users can > get extremely upset if you tag their "legitimate" mail as SPAM.) > > I suppose you might be able to slow things down slightly with throttling on the > central mailhub but with the large botnets available the spammers don't really > need to send spam out at any really high rate. > > > David Webb > Security team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University > > >> bill >> >> -- >> Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves >> billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >> University of Scranton | >> Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Or they could detect the abnormal amount of email within a time period coming from that site and impose some sort of restriction or just plain block outgoing email from the site till they clean up their machines and ask to be unblocked. sol gongola ADL Data Systems Inc Hawthorne NY 10532 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:33:50 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: OT: What filtering does Hotmail use? Message-ID: In article <48512579$0$5007$607ed4bc@cv.net>, sol gongola writes: >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote: >> In article <6b8i41F37og03U3@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>> In article , >>> Michael Austin writes: >>>> David Turner, Island Computers wrote: >>>>> STCTON10-1168104581.sdsl.bell.ca is the RDNS listing for your IP. >>>>> It should be weaverconsulting.ca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> my guess is that his problem is the same as mine has always been. You >>>> are being bounced because you are using Dynamic DNS or have not had >>>> bell.ca add your static IP address as the RDNS. >>>> >>>> Most companies now reject anything that does not properly RDNS. Period. >>>> Not only does it make it harder for spammers, it screws the legitimate >>>> guys that want to maintain their own SMTP sites. Some ISP's (ATT, SBC, >>>> etc....) now block ANY outbound port 25 traffic forcing you to use their >>>> authenticated, SSL smtp server. >>> As it should be!! If all networks, especially ISP's blocked port 25 for >>> all machines except those specifically registered as email MTA's SPAM >>> would quickly become almost non-existant. >>> >> It would definitely help with viruses but spammers would adapt. >> Instead of the zombies sending directly they would send via the ISP's mailhub. >> With viruses it is easy for the ISP just to scan outgoing mail for viruses >> just as it should be doing for incoming mail. However scanning for outgoing >> spam is more problematic. Spam detecting software is fairly error prone with >> false positives and false negatives. Also there are lots of cases where >> something might be spam if it was sent unrequested but unknown to the ISP's >> mailhub the recipient had explicitly requested it. When you scan incoming mail >> you can cater for these possibilities by tagging, quarantining and allowing >> your users to set up their own whitelists. It's difficult to do that when the >> recipients are external to your organisation (and in my experience users can >> get extremely upset if you tag their "legitimate" mail as SPAM.) >> >> I suppose you might be able to slow things down slightly with throttling on the >> central mailhub but with the large botnets available the spammers don't really >> need to send spam out at any really high rate. >> >> >> David Webb >> Security team leader >> CCSS >> Middlesex University >> >> >>> bill >>> >>> -- >>> Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves >>> billg999@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. >>> University of Scranton | >>> Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include > >Or they could detect the abnormal amount of email within a time period >coming from that site and impose some sort of restriction or just plain >block outgoing email from the site till they clean up their machines and >ask to be unblocked. > It won't be external sites seeing an abnormal amount of mail, since with large geographically dispersed botnets the traffic level from any one organisation probably won't be particularly high, but what will happen is that the spam being sent out will cause the organisation's central mailhub to appear on one or more DNS blacklists. I hate to think what will happen then but rather suspect that, after lots of argument, it will be the end for the use of DNS blacklists rather than the end for spam. (The other alternative that users and organisations will suddenly find a way to stop their machines becoming parts of botnets seems too fanciful.) David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >sol gongola >ADL Data Systems Inc >Hawthorne NY 10532 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:51:44 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht Subject: out-of-date [WAS: RE: 2 VMS books?] Message-ID: <20080612085144.GA66487@mech-aslap33.men.bris.ac.uk> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 04:37:16PM +0100, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > > OpenVMS Performance Management > von Hein VanKoelen (Autor), Joginder Sethi (Autor), Hein van Koelen (Autor) > * Verlag: Digital Press; Auflage: 2nd Ed (30. April 2003) > * ISBN-10: 1555582753 > * ISBN-13: 978-1555582753 > > Writing Open VMS Alpha Device Drivers in C: > Developer's Guide and Reference Manual (Paperback) > by Margie Sherlock (Author), Leonard Szubowicz (Author) > > * Paperback: 896 pages > * Publisher: Digital Press; 2nd Ed edition (31 Jul 1999) or 2003 ? > * Language English > * ISBN-10: 1555582095 > * ISBN-13: 978-1555582098 Lenny's book (he provided the technical content; Margie was the technical writer) is very much out of date. If you are unfamiliar with the VMS device driver model and the various data structures involved (UCB, IRP, DDT, FDT, DPT, etc.), reading this book can be a good first step in seeking to understand this stuff. -- Rob Brooks MSL -- Nashua brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com Rob, could you recommend a more up-to-date source? I imagine the performance book is also out-of-date. Again, can you recommend a newer reference? The VMS perf. manual is even more out of date, 2001. many thanks anton -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 03:53:36 -0700 (PDT) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: out-of-date [WAS: RE: 2 VMS books?] Message-ID: <05ad4207-30f9-479d-92df-cceda0c5985a@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Jun 12, 9:51 am, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 04:37:16PM +0100, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > > > OpenVMS Performance Management > > von Hein VanKoelen (Autor), Joginder Sethi (Autor), Hein van Koelen (Autor) > > * Verlag: Digital Press; Auflage: 2nd Ed (30. April 2003) > > * ISBN-10: 1555582753 > > * ISBN-13: 978-1555582753 > > > Writing Open VMS Alpha Device Drivers in C: > > Developer's Guide and Reference Manual (Paperback) > > by Margie Sherlock (Author), Leonard Szubowicz (Author) > > > * Paperback: 896 pages > > * Publisher: Digital Press; 2nd Ed edition (31 Jul 1999) or 2003 ? > > * Language English > > * ISBN-10: 1555582095 > > * ISBN-13: 978-1555582098 > > Lenny's book (he provided the technical content; Margie was the > technical > writer) is very much out of date. If you are unfamiliar with the VMS > device > driver model and the various data structures involved (UCB, IRP, DDT, > FDT, DPT, > etc.), reading this book can be a good first step in seeking to > understand > this stuff. > -- > Rob Brooks MSL -- Nashua brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com > > Rob, could you recommend a more up-to-date source? > > I imagine the performance book is also out-of-date. > Again, can you recommend a newer reference? > The VMS perf. manual is even more out of date, 2001. > > many thanks > anton > > -- > Anton Shterenlikht > Room 2.6, Queen's Building > Mech Eng Dept > Bristol University > University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK > Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 > Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 The basics are still true but the details have changed. Some of the changes can be found in the Upgrading privileged apps manual http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82final/6466/6466pro_contents.html There are also OpenVMS Alpha Device Support: Developer's Guide OpenVMS Alpha Device Support: Reference in the archived manual section http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/archived.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 12:17:08 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht Subject: Re: out-of-date [WAS: RE: 2 VMS books?] Message-ID: <20080612111708.GA58193@mech-aslap33.men.bris.ac.uk> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 03:53:36AM -0700, IanMiller wrote: > On Jun 12, 9:51 am, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 04:37:16PM +0100, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > > > > > OpenVMS Performance Management > > > von Hein VanKoelen (Autor), Joginder Sethi (Autor), Hein van Koelen (Autor) > > > * Verlag: Digital Press; Auflage: 2nd Ed (30. April 2003) > > > * ISBN-10: 1555582753 > > > * ISBN-13: 978-1555582753 > > > > > Writing Open VMS Alpha Device Drivers in C: > > > Developer's Guide and Reference Manual (Paperback) > > > by Margie Sherlock (Author), Leonard Szubowicz (Author) > > > > > * Paperback: 896 pages > > > * Publisher: Digital Press; 2nd Ed edition (31 Jul 1999) or 2003 ? > > > * Language English > > > * ISBN-10: 1555582095 > > > * ISBN-13: 978-1555582098 > > > > Lenny's book (he provided the technical content; Margie was the > > technical > > writer) is very much out of date. If you are unfamiliar with the VMS > > device > > driver model and the various data structures involved (UCB, IRP, DDT, > > FDT, DPT, > > etc.), reading this book can be a good first step in seeking to > > understand > > this stuff. > > -- > > Rob Brooks MSL -- Nashua brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com > > > > Rob, could you recommend a more up-to-date source? > > > > I imagine the performance book is also out-of-date. > > Again, can you recommend a newer reference? > > The VMS perf. manual is even more out of date, 2001. > > > > The basics are still true but the details have changed. Some of the > changes can be found in the Upgrading privileged apps manual > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82final/6466/6466pro_contents.html > > There are also > OpenVMS Alpha Device Support: Developer's Guide > OpenVMS Alpha Device Support: Reference > in the archived manual section http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/archived.html Ian, thanks What about writing device drivers for I64, any recommendations? -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 06:50:57 -0700 (PDT) From: IanMiller Subject: Re: out-of-date [WAS: RE: 2 VMS books?] Message-ID: <6c832127-50ce-4fd4-b821-e684504cec8f@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jun 12, 12:17 pm, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 03:53:36AM -0700, IanMiller wrote: > > On Jun 12, 9:51 am, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 04:37:16PM +0100, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > > > > > OpenVMS Performance Management > > > > von Hein VanKoelen (Autor), Joginder Sethi (Autor), Hein van Koelen (Autor) > > > > * Verlag: Digital Press; Auflage: 2nd Ed (30. April 2003) > > > > * ISBN-10: 1555582753 > > > > * ISBN-13: 978-1555582753 > > > > > Writing Open VMS Alpha Device Drivers in C: > > > > Developer's Guide and Reference Manual (Paperback) > > > > by Margie Sherlock (Author), Leonard Szubowicz (Author) > > > > > * Paperback: 896 pages > > > > * Publisher: Digital Press; 2nd Ed edition (31 Jul 1999) or 2003 ? > > > > * Language English > > > > * ISBN-10: 1555582095 > > > > * ISBN-13: 978-1555582098 > > > > Lenny's book (he provided the technical content; Margie was the > > > technical > > > writer) is very much out of date. If you are unfamiliar with the VMS > > > device > > > driver model and the various data structures involved (UCB, IRP, DDT, > > > FDT, DPT, > > > etc.), reading this book can be a good first step in seeking to > > > understand > > > this stuff. > > > -- > > > Rob Brooks MSL -- Nashua brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com > > > > Rob, could you recommend a more up-to-date source? > > > > I imagine the performance book is also out-of-date. > > > Again, can you recommend a newer reference? > > > The VMS perf. manual is even more out of date, 2001. > > > The basics are still true but the details have changed. Some of the > > changes can be found in the Upgrading privileged apps manual > >http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82final/6466/6466pro_contents.html > > > There are also > > OpenVMS Alpha Device Support: Developer's Guide > > OpenVMS Alpha Device Support: Reference > > in the archived manual sectionhttp://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/archived.html > > Ian, thanks > > What about writing device drivers for I64, any recommendations? > Enjoy yourself :-) Go boldly, where few have gone before ! I think there is some info in the Upgrading privileged apps manual but the device support manual has not been updated so think you are in need of a VMS listings kit for OpenVMS I64 V8.2 or later. It appears that SYS$EXAMPLES:LRDRIVER.C has not been updated recently either. What device are you writing a device driver for? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:57:34 +0200 From: Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> Subject: Re: out-of-date [WAS: RE: 2 VMS books?] Message-ID: <48512b67$0$14360$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> > What about writing device drivers for I64, any recommendations? That's 99% the same as for Alpha. Jur. Anton Shterenlikht wrote, On 12-6-2008 13:17: > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 03:53:36AM -0700, IanMiller wrote: >> On Jun 12, 9:51 am, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: >>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 04:37:16PM +0100, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: >>> >>>> OpenVMS Performance Management >>>> von Hein VanKoelen (Autor), Joginder Sethi (Autor), Hein van Koelen (Autor) >>>> * Verlag: Digital Press; Auflage: 2nd Ed (30. April 2003) >>>> * ISBN-10: 1555582753 >>>> * ISBN-13: 978-1555582753 >>>> Writing Open VMS Alpha Device Drivers in C: >>>> Developer's Guide and Reference Manual (Paperback) >>>> by Margie Sherlock (Author), Leonard Szubowicz (Author) >>>> * Paperback: 896 pages >>>> * Publisher: Digital Press; 2nd Ed edition (31 Jul 1999) or 2003 ? >>>> * Language English >>>> * ISBN-10: 1555582095 >>>> * ISBN-13: 978-1555582098 >>> Lenny's book (he provided the technical content; Margie was the >>> technical >>> writer) is very much out of date. If you are unfamiliar with the VMS >>> device >>> driver model and the various data structures involved (UCB, IRP, DDT, >>> FDT, DPT, >>> etc.), reading this book can be a good first step in seeking to >>> understand >>> this stuff. >>> -- >>> Rob Brooks MSL -- Nashua brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com >>> >>> Rob, could you recommend a more up-to-date source? >>> >>> I imagine the performance book is also out-of-date. >>> Again, can you recommend a newer reference? >>> The VMS perf. manual is even more out of date, 2001. >>> >> The basics are still true but the details have changed. Some of the >> changes can be found in the Upgrading privileged apps manual >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82final/6466/6466pro_contents.html >> >> There are also >> OpenVMS Alpha Device Support: Developer's Guide >> OpenVMS Alpha Device Support: Reference >> in the archived manual section http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/archived.html > > Ian, thanks > > What about writing device drivers for I64, any recommendations? > ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 2008 10:37:02 -0400 From: brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) Subject: Re: out-of-date [WAS: RE: 2 VMS books?] Message-ID: Anton Shterenlikht writes: >> > Rob, could you recommend a more up-to-date source? There is nothing that is more up-to-date as a replacement for the "Writing OpenVMS Device Drivers in C". For those that are interested, I believe that the I/O interception scheme that was introduced in V8.2 and backported to V7.3-2 will be quasi-documented in the V8.4 I/O User's Guide. This work was done to allow 3rd party software, like I/O caching, to "play nice" with multipath. Multipath itself is a consumer of this mechanism. Prior to this, 3rd party I/O interceptors and multipath could lead to problems. Not always, but the scheme that was implemented allows for a much smoother integration, and one that should never lead to crashes. > What about writing device drivers for I64, any recommendations? Well, writing a class driver would not necessarily be much different than one for Alpha. Writing a port driver, which I've never done, could be very different, depending on the hardware involved. For that, having access to the VMS sources would be a big help. -- Rob Brooks MSL -- Nashua brooks!cuebid.zko.hp.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:25:38 +0100 From: Anton Shterenlikht Subject: Re: out-of-date [WAS: RE: 2 VMS books?] Message-ID: <20080612152538.GA72389@mech-aslap33.men.bris.ac.uk> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 06:50:57AM -0700, IanMiller wrote: > On Jun 12, 12:17 pm, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 03:53:36AM -0700, IanMiller wrote: > > > On Jun 12, 9:51 am, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 04:37:16PM +0100, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > > > > What about writing device drivers for I64, any recommendations? > > > > Enjoy yourself :-) Go boldly, where few have gone before ! > > I think there is some info in the Upgrading privileged apps manual but > the device support manual has not been updated so think you are in > need of a VMS listings kit for OpenVMS I64 V8.2 or later. It appears > that SYS$EXAMPLES:LRDRIVER.C has not been updated recently either. > > What device are you writing a device driver for? well.. for example a quantum random number generator (QRNG): http://idquantique.com/products/quantis.htm "PCI card comes with drivers for Windows (2000/XP), Linux (2.4, 2.6), FreeBSD (4, 5, 6) and Solaris (8, 9, 10 for SPARC, x86 and x64)" no VMS.. -- Anton Shterenlikht Room 2.6, Queen's Building Mech Eng Dept Bristol University University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK Tel: +44 (0)117 928 8233 Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:42:53 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Python for VMS Message-ID: In article , "R.A.Omond" writes: > http://vmspython.dyndns.org/ > > It uses the two LD-disks. Just to download and mount as LDA > drives. They are pre-installed and ready to run. Works > like a charm, inkl the Rdb interface and a lot of VMS > specific system functions. I downloaded the two zip files; they appear to contain, unzipped, about 450 MB. Does that sound right? When unzipping, however, I get an allocation error, device full etc even on a disk with 1.6 GB free. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 2008 10:44:16 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Python for VMS Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > As a response to my recent post regarding newsreaders etc, someone > suggested a Python script. This would fit the bill for my urgent need > and I can keep running the old stuff otherwise. > > Where can I get Python for VMS? Are VAX and ALPHA versions available? > How long does a bare-bones installation take? How much disk space do I > need? How much RAM? I got Python for VMS by going into Google and entering "python". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:46:06 +0100 From: "R.A.Omond" Subject: Re: Python for VMS Message-ID: <485144e9$0$90273$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > In article , "R.A.Omond" > writes: > >> http://vmspython.dyndns.org/ >> >> It uses the two LD-disks. Just to download and mount as LDA >> drives. They are pre-installed and ready to run. Works >> like a charm, inkl the Rdb interface and a lot of VMS >> specific system functions. > > I downloaded the two zip files; they appear to contain, unzipped, about > 450 MB. Does that sound right? When unzipping, however, I get an > allocation error, device full etc even on a disk with 1.6 GB free. I got bit by the same thing (that's why it's on my Mac Mini with oodles of free disk space). The LD container files are marked as contiguous, so UNZIPping them is looking for that amount of *contiguous* space. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:53:17 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Python for VMS Message-ID: In article <485144e9$0$90273$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, "R.A.Omond" writes: > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > In article , "R.A.Omond" > > writes: > > > >> http://vmspython.dyndns.org/ > >> > >> It uses the two LD-disks. Just to download and mount as LDA > >> drives. They are pre-installed and ready to run. Works > >> like a charm, inkl the Rdb interface and a lot of VMS > >> specific system functions. > > > > I downloaded the two zip files; they appear to contain, unzipped, about > > 450 MB. Does that sound right? When unzipping, however, I get an > > allocation error, device full etc even on a disk with 1.6 GB free. > > I got bit by the same thing (that's why it's on my Mac Mini > with oodles of free disk space). Hhmmm....I first downnloaded with Mozilla (or CSWB). I tried again with LYNX, which resulted in fixed-length 512-byte records rather than stream-linefeed. The UNZIP seems to be working OK now. > The LD container files are marked as contiguous, so UNZIPping > them is looking for that amount of *contiguous* space. Maybe it will bomb later if I don't have enought contiguous space. Is the figure 450 MB (contiguous) space correct? One could fit a somewhat tailored older version of VMS for VAX in 122 MB! Even 7.3 VAX is fine with 1 GB, including DECwindows, lots of compilers etc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:03:37 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Python for VMS Message-ID: In article <485144e9$0$90273$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, "R.A.Omond" writes: > > I downloaded the two zip files; they appear to contain, unzipped, about > > 450 MB. Does that sound right? When unzipping, however, I get an > > allocation error, device full etc even on a disk with 1.6 GB free. > > I got bit by the same thing (that's why it's on my Mac Mini > with oodles of free disk space). > > The LD container files are marked as contiguous, so UNZIPping > them is looking for that amount of *contiguous* space. What about having one LD container on one disk and the other on another disk? Possible? Does one have to jump through hoops? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:41:24 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Python for VMS Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > In article <485144e9$0$90273$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, "R.A.Omond" > writes: > > > > I downloaded the two zip files; they appear to contain, unzipped, about > > > 450 MB. Does that sound right? When unzipping, however, I get an > > > allocation error, device full etc even on a disk with 1.6 GB free. > > > > I got bit by the same thing (that's why it's on my Mac Mini > > with oodles of free disk space). > > > > The LD container files are marked as contiguous, so UNZIPping > > them is looking for that amount of *contiguous* space. > > What about having one LD container on one disk and the other on another > disk? Possible? Does one have to jump through hoops? OK, found enough contiguous space. Next problem: $ ld CONNECT jfplib0001.dsk lda1: %DCL-W-IVVERB, unrecognized command verb - check validity and spelling \LD\ Presumably I need to install LD. I'm running 7.3-2 ALPHA. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 2008 11:41:30 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Python for VMS Message-ID: In article <485144e9$0$90273$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, "R.A.Omond" writes: > > The LD container files are marked as contiguous, so UNZIPping > them is looking for that amount of *contiguous* space. I didn't put them on an LD disk. Couldn't find any reason that I'd need to. Is this because python may require ODS-5? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:26:45 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Tough Crowd! Message-ID: Hi Jan-Erik, > Honestly, I just couldn't care less anymore. Well then, that would appear to place you squarely in the majority :-( Look, out of necessity, I too am trying to wean myself of VMS (and maybe IT altogether), but I guess I just can't help seeing things as they could've been and asking "Why Not?". But, in the grand scheme of things, you're right - "Who really gives a toss?". (Having said that, let me say this, "It suffices for the triumph and the longevity of the incumbent pieces o' shit, that the Jan-Erik's and Dickie Maher's of this VMS world do nothing.".) > You've got to solve your personal problems > by yourself. Although my "personal problems" may not be few in number :-) I had rather hoped that when it came to the issue of "Ann VIII's wanton dissolution of the VMS installed-base", we may have found ourselves on common-ground? - No matter. Personally, I simply could not sit by a moment longer and witness the incessant rape and pillage of the village VMS before getting on that bus and self-detonating. But getting back to the original post comparing my modest Flex/VMS example to the offerings of NASDAQ's not insubstantial web-development Goliath, I have to say that, while not expecting a standing ovation, Mexican wave, or enthusiastic "Go Dickie! Go Dickie! Go Dickie!", I had envisaged the odd pat-on-the-back or at least a simple "Well done". Perhaps the odd question about the FABridge and how it overcame the obstacles bedevilling NASDAQ? For fuck-sake, DEC used to be an engineering company, a leader in its field! Where have they all gone? "New Web 'VAXNotes' interface with LEDs" - Oh, there you are! :-( Regards Richard Maher PS. An inspirational motto I found from the Zeeland coat of Arms - "Luctor et Emergo". PPS. I have to plead guilty to being an absolute knob-head for not encouraging your earlier interest in installing a hobbyist Tier3 kit on your personal boxes and having a go! I won't stalk you now, but I'd really like to get my examples up and running on your servers +/- FlexBuilder just for interest's sake; I won't chase you for feed-back. If you're still interested, please drop me a line. PPPS. I wanted to check the relevence of my earlier reference to the "Eloi", and was stunned by this: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eloi Oh to see ourselves as others see us :-) "Jan-Erik Söderholm" wrote in message news:l9v3k.8327$R_4.6952@newsb.telia.net... > Richard Maher wrote: > > Honestly, I just couldn't care less anymore. > You've got to solve your personal problems > by yourself. > > Good luck. > > Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:33:48 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Re: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Message-ID: Right And noone ever dies in the USA from "neglect" in the hospitals. -- David B Turner ============================================= Island Computers US Corp PO Box 86 Tybee GA 31328 Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 Email: dturner@islandco.com International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 Fax: 912 786 8505 Web: www.islandco.com ============================================= wrote in message news:bc68f831-339d-4173-a0f7-e48fa8f92e99@d62g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > here is a glance of things to come if Hillary or Obama implement > their healthcare plan ... the bbc did not report it but a teen died > while waiting on an ambulance that was setting at the hospital > with a patient inside because the hospitals were full and did not > want to violate a government mandate of a 4 hour must treat law. > > Canada people coming here ... England people that have the money > flying to India to have surgery ... > > don't worry, those rich liberal Harvard grads will be able to afford > it while those they claim to want to help will be dying waiting for > an ambulance ... > > that what socialism does, it ruins a country ... > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7249514.stm > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:40:06 -0700 (PDT) From: ultradwc@gmail.com Subject: Re: Universal healthcare in England failing - boy dies ! Message-ID: On Jun 12, 1:33 pm, "David Turner, Island Computers" wrote: > Right > And noone ever dies in the USA from "neglect" in the hospitals. > > -- > David B Turner > > ============================================= > > Island Computers US Corp > PO Box 86 > Tybee GA 31328 > > Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251 > Email: dtur...@islandco.com > International & Local: (001)- 404-806-7749 > Fax: 912 786 8505 > Web:www.islandco.com > > ============================================= wrote in message > > news:bc68f831-339d-4173-a0f7-e48fa8f92e99@d62g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... > > > here is a glance of things to come if Hillary or Obama implement > > their healthcare plan ... the bbc did not report it but a teen died > > while waiting on an ambulance that was setting at the hospital > > with a patient inside because the hospitals were full and did not > > want to violate a government mandate of a 4 hour must treat law. > > > Canada people coming here ... England people that have the money > > flying to India to have surgery ... > > > don't worry, those rich liberal Harvard grads will be able to afford > > it while those they claim to want to help will be dying waiting for > > an ambulance ... > > > that what socialism does, it ruins a country ... > > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7249514.stm at least they die in a hospital and not in an ambulance ... ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 2008 11:29:43 -0500 From: BEGINcornelius@decuserve.orgEND (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: <8UwMP66s2mc8@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <48469daa$0$11613$607ed4bc@cv.net>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article <36bfb892-ebcc-4607-8826-d96acc522ebf@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, "David P. Murphy" writes: >>On Jun 2, 11:26 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> >>> That did work. However, all of the other 'security' items originally shown >>> by 'cacls sshd_config' have gone missing. I hope that doesn't hork access >>> for the sshd server trying to read the file when it starts. If so, I will >>> be _COMPLETELY_ shut out. >> >>Dude, I'm dying here. Can you get through now, or are you hosed? > > The box hasn't been rebooted yet so I don't know... in the interim, I'm still > in via ssh on 22 VAXman, I think from reading the thread up to this point that you did get cacls to work, although after the dpm's post I am not sure. I coincidentally had a very similar problem a few days ago: the cygwin X server/ bash shell was installed on my laptop under a coworker's login when he had borrowed it, but I could not access, delete, or modify some of the files, even though I am a local administrator on the box. cacls did _not_ work for me (maybe I needed /E ? ) but eventually I went to someone I knew in our Windows servers group and she showed me how to take ownership of the file from the gui (Properties -> -> ). After that, cacls worked as advertised. -- George Cornelius cornelius A T eisner D O T decus D O T org cornelius A T mayo D O T edu ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 2008 17:02:54 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Weendoze for a VMS bigot Message-ID: <485156be$0$5016$607ed4bc@cv.net> In article <8UwMP66s2mc8@eisner.encompasserve.org>, BEGINcornelius@decuserve.orgEND (George Cornelius) writes: >In article <48469daa$0$11613$607ed4bc@cv.net>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >> In article <36bfb892-ebcc-4607-8826-d96acc522ebf@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, "David P. Murphy" writes: >>>On Jun 2, 11:26 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>> >>>> That did work. However, all of the other 'security' items originally shown >>>> by 'cacls sshd_config' have gone missing. I hope that doesn't hork access >>>> for the sshd server trying to read the file when it starts. If so, I will >>>> be _COMPLETELY_ shut out. >>> >>>Dude, I'm dying here. Can you get through now, or are you hosed? >> >> The box hasn't been rebooted yet so I don't know... in the interim, I'm still >> in via ssh on 22 > >VAXman, > >I think from reading the thread up to this point that you did get cacls >to work, although after the dpm's post I am not sure. It is what I used. Seeing as there's no such thing as a real 'HELP' command under Weendoze nor anything akin to the unixy 'apropos', finding a command to use in Weendoze is virtually impossible. ...and 'cacls', WTF is that? Hens in the twinkie and coke vending machine rooms at the Redmond Academy of Soft- ware Neophytes Emitting Substandard Often Flawed Technology inspiring command verbs? >cacls did _not_ work for me (maybe I needed /E ? ) but eventually I went to >someone I knew in our Windows servers group and she showed me how to take >ownership of the file from the gui (Properties -> -> ). > >After that, cacls worked as advertised. If you have access to the M$ GUI thing, why would you use the raucous chicken noise command? -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.327 ************************