INFO-VAX Thu, 12 Jun 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 326 Contents: ampersand in DCL script Re: ampersand in DCL script Re: ampersand in DCL script Re: Birthday Re: Birthday Re: DS10L clock battery question Re: DS10L clock battery question FTP client: stripping version numbers and forcing lowercase on MPUT Re: FTP client: stripping version numbers and forcing lowercase on MPUT Re: FTP client: stripping version numbers and forcing lowercase on MPUT on MPUT Re: FTP client: stripping version numbers and forcing lowercase on MPUT on MPUT Re: Interesting job ad from HP Re: Interesting job ad from HP Re: Interesting job ad from HP Re: Interesting job ad from HP Re: Interesting job ad from HP Re: Interesting job ad from HP Re: Interesting job ad from HP Re: Interesting job ad from HP Re: LAT SET PORT problem Re: newsreader client for VMS RE: What filtering does Hotmail use? Re: What filtering does Hotmail use? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:31:41 -0700 (PDT) From: kiwi-red Subject: ampersand in DCL script Message-ID: <74b17c72-2f0e-42a6-8ef2-b2b2275dc1d5@q27g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Looking through some code that I am trying to debug and I came across the following. Can't figure out why its been done. Anyone got any suggestions? Sorry if I am being a bit vague kiwi $ AMPERSAND :== & $ type &pull_master_dat $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:34:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: ampersand in DCL script Message-ID: <8d684d35-a238-4061-8a83-0c002f9c26c3@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com> On Jun 11, 11:31=A0pm, kiwi-red wrote: > Looking through some code that I am trying to debug and I came > across the following. Can't figure out why its been done. > > Anyone got any suggestions? > Sorry if I am being a bit vague > > kiwi > > $ AMPERSAND =A0 =A0 :=3D=3D & > > $ type &pull_master_dat > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name That code might just trying to be cute/smart. The single quoting on the left and right gets tedious after a while. Using the &, no closing quote is needed. The first line "AMPERSAND :=3D=3D & " certain means nothing without more usage contents. It might get interesting when used as $test 'ampersand'some-symbol To approaciate the other lines I would be nice to have an example of the value of 'remote_file' As well as the definition of rename, if defined. The &x is much like 'x', except that the translation is not postponed, not iterative. This allows you to put single and doublequotes in strings where DCL would barf. One of the few place I use & "all the time" is for $read/key=3D&key- symbol That way there can be non-printable chars in key-symbol. And is allows you to bypass the DCL level of filename parsing. For example: $ x :=3D x;x;x $ dir 'x %DCL-W-PARMDEL, invalid parameter delimiter - check use of special characters \;X\ $ dir &x %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening X;X;X as input -RMS-F-SYN, file specification syntax error See how that first error comes from DCL, the second from DIR ?! Not sure how to put that to practical use though ! btw... kids, don't try this at home : $read/key=3Dx sys$input y Hein. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jun 2008 23:42:49 -0500 From: BEGINcornelius@decuserve.orgEND (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: ampersand in DCL script Message-ID: In article <74b17c72-2f0e-42a6-8ef2-b2b2275dc1d5@q27g2000prf.googlegroups.com> , kiwi-red writes: > Looking through some code that I am trying to debug and I came > across the following. Can't figure out why its been done. > > Anyone got any suggestions? > Sorry if I am being a bit vague > > kiwi > > > $ AMPERSAND :== & Just an assignment. Not used below. > $ type &pull_master_dat > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name > $ rename &remote_file &new_file_name The ampersand is just an odd, rarely used substitution character. I believe the substitution must be a single entity to a DCL parser, so you may be able to do $ xx="f1" $ yy="f2" $ copy &xx &yy but not $ zz="f1 f2" $ copy &zz There are apparently some uses for it, but I have found it too quirky to bother with. -- George Cornelius cornelius A T eisner D O T decus D O T org cornelius A T mayo D O T edu ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jun 2008 18:35:23 -0400 From: Rich Alderson Subject: Re: Birthday Message-ID: Didier_Toulouse writes: > ps: Today is the 25th birthday of my ack message in this forum to our > Liberators from GB, USA, Canada, Australia, Ireland and all the others > who came to my Country on this famous D Day to die for my freedom. > Maybe I could stop posting such message, as all these gentlemen and > women who came home safely in 1945 are probably dead today. Btw, we > lost a few weeks ago the last "poilu" from WW I. Lazare Ponticelli. He > was 110. His passing made the news in the US, as well. One of our last WWI veterans, another centenarian, went recently as well. But there are still quite a few veterans of D-Day here. After all, they're only in their 80's. -- Rich Alderson "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." news@alderson.users.panix.com --Death, of the Endless ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 00:06:10 -0400 From: "William Webb" Subject: Re: Birthday Message-ID: <8660a3a10806112106j6014b045ve50f475101c671b1@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 6:35 PM, Rich Alderson wrote: > Didier_Toulouse writes: > >> ps: Today is the 25th birthday of my ack message in this forum to our >> Liberators from GB, USA, Canada, Australia, Ireland and all the others >> who came to my Country on this famous D Day to die for my freedom. >> Maybe I could stop posting such message, as all these gentlemen and >> women who came home safely in 1945 are probably dead today. Btw, we >> lost a few weeks ago the last "poilu" from WW I. Lazare Ponticelli. He >> was 110. > > His passing made the news in the US, as well. One of our last WWI veterans, > another centenarian, went recently as well. > > But there are still quite a few veterans of D-Day here. After all, they're > only in their 80's. > > -- > Rich Alderson "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." > news@alderson.users.panix.com --Death, of the Endless > Didier, I told my wife and both of my children about your annual post, and how much it meant to me that someone from France still remembers and cares enough to just say, Thanks". We hear about the anti-American demonstrations and desecrated cemeteries in which so many of our dead were laid to rest, and are given the wrong impression from our media about the general attitude towards Americans that is present in France. Your post provided me with a poignant counterexample, and for that, I thank YOU. Best regards, WWWebb, who still is utterly amazed at the backflips of logic that must be required in order to believe that liberating fifty million people from tyrannical regimes that mutilated women, oppressed minorities and trampled on the human rights of the people they ruled can be seen as the wrong thing to have done. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:58:49 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: DS10L clock battery question Message-ID: <485013a4$0$12321$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Steven M. Schweda wrote: > If it's talking to a serial port, then (all) the power's not really > off, is it? But the definition of "not really off" is what counts here... If the RMC gets a unswitched 5VDC feed from the main power supply, and controls a relay inside the power supply on whether main power to the motherboard is applied or not, then it depends on whether the clock battery is supplied with power from the unswitched or the switched portion of the power supply ("switched" in the on/off context, not in a "switching power supply" context) > and two bits of aluminum foil. Faster and easier than finding anyone > who actually knows the answer (a priori). And more reliable. I figured/hoped/counted-on/bet-my-life someone here might know :-) Because the clock/battery are supposedly integrated into a single chip on the DS10 (non replaceable if I recall), it becomes hard to know where to stick probes in to see if power is being applied or not. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:09:13 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: DS10L clock battery question Message-ID: <08061113091342_20200492@antinode.info> From: JF Mezei > Because the clock/battery are supposedly integrated into a single chip > on the DS10 (non replaceable if I recall), it becomes hard to know where > to stick probes in to see if power is being applied or not. Oh. It's one of those. I was imagining that it had a coin cell, like the XP1000. SMS. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:03:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Dick Piccard Subject: FTP client: stripping version numbers and forcing lowercase on MPUT Message-ID: <66c27623-750a-41c0-931f-76410de2506d@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> We will soon be in a situation where we want to transfer about 30,000 files (in about 2,000 directories and subdirectories) from a VMS server to a linux server. Life will be simpler if we can set things up so that the version numbers will be stripped and all letters in file and directory names forced to lowercase. I did not see anything in the HELP that looked promising. HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.4 - ECO 7 on a AlphaServer DS10 617 MHz running OpenVMS V7.3-2 It is quite acceptable if this requires stopping,re-setting, and re- starting the FTP service in a specific way. I could come in during our maintenance window and re-start TCPIP if that is needed. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:09:29 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.info (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: FTP client: stripping version numbers and forcing lowercase on MPUT Message-ID: <08061116092932_20200492@antinode.info> From: Dick Piccard > We will soon be in a situation where we want to transfer about 30,000 > files (in about 2,000 directories and subdirectories) from a VMS > server to a linux server. Life will be simpler if we can set things > up so that the version numbers will be stripped and all letters in > file and directory names forced to lowercase. I did not see anything > in the HELP that looked promising. > > HP TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.4 - ECO 7 7? Yikes. I'm behind the times again. > on a AlphaServer DS10 617 MHz running OpenVMS V7.3-2 > > It is quite acceptable if this requires stopping,re-setting, and re- > starting the FTP service in a specific way. I could come in during > our maintenance window and re-start TCPIP if that is needed. I don't know all the details here, but I'd sure be tempted to use something like Zip+UnZip to handle this, instead of plain FTP. They should handle the file name/version stuff as well as the text-file format conversion (where necessary), while preserving date-time. With the (pre-release) Zip 3.0 program, you even get command-line control over name case adjustment on the VMS side. If temporary storage is a problem, it can be done in pieces. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-info 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:00:09 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: FTP client: stripping version numbers and forcing lowercase on MPUT on MPUT Message-ID: <485076e5$0$20535$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Dick Piccard wrote: > server to a linux server. Life will be simpler if we can set things > up so that the version numbers will be stripped and all letters in > file and directory names forced to lowercase. $DEFINE/SYSTEM TCPIP$FTP_NO_VERSION 1 This gets rid of the version numbers. In terms of lowercasing files, I am not sure this can be done. If yur disks are ODS-5, you could do DCL script that renames files to their lowercase counterpart. If your disks are ADS-2, lowercase files don't exist, and you would have to perform individual GET commands on the linux side and specify the lowercase destination. aka: build a directory fo files to be transmitted, then generate a list of TCP command such as: GET CHOCOLATE.RECIPE chocolate.recipe GET CHOCOLATE.CAKE Chocolate.Cake etc etc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 03:38:57 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: FTP client: stripping version numbers and forcing lowercase on MPUT on MPUT Message-ID: Dick Piccard schrieb: > We will soon be in a situation where we want to transfer about 30,000 > files (in about 2,000 directories and subdirectories) from a VMS > server to a linux server. zip/unzip are quite powerful tools since they combine "tar" and compress/gzip functionality plus VMS specials. If it must be FTP: I remember that back in the old times (15 years ago) when we transferred files off VMS, we used FTP subcommands on the *IX side, s.th. like: case # toggles case mapping (initially OFF) prompt # toggles prompting of each file name (initially ON) nmap $1;$2 $1 # to strip off VMS version numbers mget *.txt # get all txt files With FTP, you can also build batch procedures embedded in a shell script: ftp -n << /EOD ... stuff you want to do with ftp subcommands ... quit /EOD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:55:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "middie1975@gmail.com" Subject: Re: Interesting job ad from HP Message-ID: On Jun 11, 1:48=A0am, Michael Kraemer wrote: > yyyc186 schrieb: > > > > > It might be a response to some rumors I've heard in the steel > > industry. =A0Virtually all of the steel mills use some form of DEC OS, > > from PDP all the way through Itanic. =A0There have been some serious > > grumblings there about the level of service VMS is receiving and the > > level of commitment on the part of HP. =A0If just a couple of the global= > > steel companies banded together, they could do a hostile take over of > > HP that the HP family could not defend against. > > When your down time > > is measured in tens of thousands of dollars per second, you don't take > > lightly someone messing with a tool you've used for years. > > Highly unlikely, IMHO. From the perspective of the respective CEOs, > the actual OS in the control rooms is just a minor detail, > a single component among many others. It's the IT division > leader's job to fix downtime issues on his own. > If he can't, he'll be fired. In this situation, it's > more likely that he will switch to another platform which > receives better attention, rather than trying to convince > his higher-ups to launch a - probably very expensive - take-over. > $1xx Bn to save an OS with (probably) less than $1Bn annual revenue ? > > When IBM started to "mistreat" OS/2, did banks and insurance > even think about taking over IBM ? Absurd idea. I tend to agree that the idea of a steel or aluminum company taking over HP seems a stretch to me. I'm guessing that most at HP would acknowledge knowing virtually nothing about the metals industry, and similarly it's doubtful that many in the metals area know much about the high-tech computing business. Doesn't sound like a good marriage to me. But, then again, I once worked for a steel company that thought it knew something about the insurance business -- and it was a very costly, and almost fatal, mistake for them. However, having worked for two US steel companies and one aluminum company over my 30 year career in process automation, I confidently can state that many metals companies (worldwide) have staked, and continue to stake, their current businesses on VMS -- whether their upper management knows it or not. I suspect that most in the upper echelons of these companies do not know VMS from a hole in the wall, nor should they necessarily be expected to. As you said, to some, the OS in the control room is only a "minor detail". The managers simply and rightfully expect everything in the control rooms to function, 24 by 7 in our case. To me, and to most of the readers here, the OS is definitely not a minor detail. It's a very important part of our livelihood, and a big part of that "24 by 7" requirement. But, it all depends on perspective. To those that run the company, the OS is a very small part, and one that's virtually invisible to them most of the time. To replace VMS with another flavor of OS would mean not only a huge investment in custom application software re-writes (which we have not budgeted for), but would most probably make our systems much less reliable (as the 24 by 7 turns into something different). In our company, no one in the IT department does anything with VMS. They know the name, but they associate VMS with systems on the factory floor. The process automation group takes care of the equipment on the plant floor, and VMS is a key part of that world. Without VMS, we don't produce a product -- simple as that. And, it's been that way at my places of employment (both steel & aluminum) for that past 20+ years. I don't see that changing anytime soon. Before VMS, it was Modcomp computers.... but, that's a whole different story. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 02:45:52 +0200 From: Michael Kraemer Subject: Re: Interesting job ad from HP Message-ID: middie1975@gmail.com schrieb: > similarly it's doubtful that many in the metals area know much about > the high-tech computing business. Doesn't sound like a good marriage > to me. Well, in the good old times computer hardware was made of steel, not plastic. And over here, once upon a time, IBM employees were organized in the steel workers union. :-) > I suspect that most in the upper > echelons of these companies do not know VMS from a hole in the wall, > nor should they necessarily be expected to. As you said, to some, > the OS in the control room is only a "minor detail". The managers > simply and rightfully expect everything in the control rooms to > function, 24 by 7 in our case. To me, and to most of the readers > here, the OS is definitely not a minor detail. It's a very important > part of our livelihood, and a big part of that "24 by 7" requirement. > But, it all depends on perspective. That's what I meant, perspective. A techies perspective is naturally different from the bosses one. A boss might not always be right, but he's always the boss :-) > To those that run the company, > the OS is a very small part, and one that's virtually invisible to > them most of the time. To replace VMS with another flavor of OS > would mean not only a huge investment in custom application software > re-writes (which we have not budgeted for), but would most probably > make our systems much less reliable (as the 24 by 7 turns into > something different). I don't think VMS makes a big difference here. 24x7 you can have with any platform these days, even Windoze. Specialized VMS-bound apps may be a different issue, but I have seen places where techies (DECies) have told management that it would be impossible to move off VMS. Until DEC was eaten by Compaq and management simply ordered to move off that dead OS. There was moaning and groaning, but in the end, it *was* possible. Where's a will, there's a way. Such a move might cost money, but certainly is cheaper than taking over HP and life is more comfortable afterwards than staying on an ailing platform. > And, it's been that > way at my places of employment (both steel & aluminum) for that past > 20+ years. I don't see that changing anytime soon. > > Before VMS, it was Modcomp computers.... but, that's a whole > different story. So you already have seen at least one of those "impossible" moves ... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:24:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Sue Subject: Re: Interesting job ad from HP Message-ID: <45a3ff2a-01d6-490e-8e9d-f0c50ead8807@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> On Jun 11, 8:45=A0pm, Michael Kraemer wrote: > middie1...@gmail.com schrieb: > > > similarly it's doubtful that many in the metals area know much about > > the high-tech computing business. =A0 Doesn't sound like a good marriage= > > to me. =A0 > > Well, in the good old times computer hardware was made of steel, > not plastic. And over here, once upon a time, > IBM employees were organized in the steel workers union. > :-) > > > I suspect that most in the upper > > echelons of these companies do not know VMS from a hole in the wall, > > nor should they necessarily be expected to. =A0 As you said, to some, > > the OS in the control room is only a "minor detail". =A0The managers > > simply and rightfully expect everything in the control rooms to > > function, 24 by 7 in our case. =A0To me, and to most of the readers > > here, the OS is definitely not a minor detail. =A0It's a very important > > part of our livelihood, and a big part of that "24 by 7" requirement. > > But, it all depends on perspective. > > That's what I meant, perspective. > A techies perspective is naturally different from > the bosses one. A boss might not always be right, > but he's always the boss :-) > > > To those that run the company, > > the OS is a very small part, and one that's virtually invisible to > > them most of the time. =A0 To replace VMS with another flavor of OS > > would mean not only a huge investment in custom application software > > re-writes (which we have not budgeted for), but would most probably > > make our systems much less reliable (as the 24 by 7 turns into > > something different). > > I don't think VMS makes a big difference here. > 24x7 you can have with any platform these days, even Windoze. > Specialized VMS-bound apps may be a different issue, > but I have seen places where techies (DECies) have told > management that it would be impossible to move off VMS. > Until DEC was eaten by Compaq and management simply > ordered to move off that dead OS. > There was moaning and groaning, but in the end, > it *was* possible. Where's a will, there's a way. > Such a move might cost money, but certainly is cheaper > than taking over HP and life is more comfortable > afterwards than staying on an ailing platform. > > > And, it's been that > > way at my places of employment (both steel & aluminum) for that past > > 20+ years. =A0 I don't see that changing anytime soon. > > > Before VMS, it was Modcomp computers.... =A0 but, that's a whole > > different story. > > So you already have seen at least one of those > "impossible" moves ... I think that these type of customers and companies are wonderful. I know I say that about all the customers but I have special interest in this area and the manufacturing customers are a very special group and I am partial. We had a number of manufacturing folks at the Boot Camp this year. One of them has invited me to visit them the next time I am in Sweden, Which of course I will do. Sue ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:14:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "middie1975@gmail.com" Subject: Re: Interesting job ad from HP Message-ID: <909c005b-cb0b-42c7-b34f-775ecd7e587c@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On Jun 11, 7:45=A0pm, Michael Kraemer wrote: > That's what I meant, perspective. > A techies perspective is naturally different from > the bosses one. A boss might not always be right, > but he's always the boss :-) No argument here. But, where I work, the boss usually depends on the "techies" advice. And, again, the boss usually doesn't know or care about the OS (or even what "OS" stands for). He just wants his plant to run, and run well. > > To those that run the company, > > the OS is a very small part, and one that's virtually invisible to > > them most of the time. =A0 To replace VMS with another flavor of OS > > would mean not only a huge investment in custom application software > > re-writes (which we have not budgeted for), but would most probably > > make our systems much less reliable (as the 24 by 7 turns into > > something different). > > I don't think VMS makes a big difference here. > 24x7 you can have with any platform these days, even Windoze. Really? I completely disagree, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. I'm surrounded by Windows boxes every day, and I've yet to see one that's doing much of anything meaningful (in a realtime application) run for years, let alone months, without a reboot. I have a hard time even imagining such a thing. But, maybe it happens. > Specialized VMS-bound apps may be a different issue, > but I have seen places where techies (DECies) have told > management that it would be impossible to move off VMS. We've never said such a thing was impossible at our plant. But, we do have a few apps (without source code) on a couple of our systems that will make moving to ANY other OS or hardware platform difficult. At the present time, we have no plans to move away from VMS. It is still the heart of many of our systems. > Until DEC was eaten by Compaq and management simply > ordered to move off that dead OS. > There was moaning and groaning, but in the end, > it *was* possible. Where's a will, there's a way. > Such a move might cost money, but certainly is cheaper > than taking over HP and life is more comfortable > afterwards than staying on an ailing platform. Agree. Never said that "taking over HP" made any sense. > > And, it's been that > > way at my places of employment (both steel & aluminum) for that past > > 20+ years. =A0 I don't see that changing anytime soon. > > > Before VMS, it was Modcomp computers.... =A0 but, that's a whole > > different story. > > So you already have seen at least one of those > "impossible" moves ... Again, never said such a move was impossible. With time & money, just about anything can be accomplished. Eventually, hardware does wear out. That was the case with our old Modcomps. They were good machines, but came to the end of their natural life. A move had to be made -- and, in fact, some apps had already been ported to VMS on Alpha some years before. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 23:58:59 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Interesting job ad from HP Message-ID: <4850a061$0$7257$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> middie1975@gmail.com wrote: > At > the present time, we have no plans to move away from VMS. It is > still the heart of many of our systems. Would it be fair to state that your applications are very stable, don't change much, and that your capacity requirements are fairly fixed (enough to run the plant) and that you arte not adding new applications on that platform ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:39:49 -0700 (PDT) From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: Interesting job ad from HP Message-ID: <33be5cb2-2fcf-48f7-8db0-b7bfc5d17a01@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Jun 11, 7:45=A0pm, Michael Kraemer wrote: > I don't think VMS makes a big difference here. > 24x7 you can have with any platform these days, even Windoze. > Specialized VMS-bound apps may be a different issue, No, you cannot get 24x7 with Windoze or most flavors of Eunics. You get what people fraudulently call 24x7 which ends up really being 21x6.change. In order to get and keep 24x7, you need a full cluster with a distributed lock manager. You need the kind of cluster where one entire location can be physically destroyed by fire and the cluster keeps running. Didn't you learn anything from the trading companies that were in the Twin Towers on September 11? Those running a distributed OpenVMS cluster continued trading until the close of market without losing a single transaction, even after losing an entire site. Most of the rest went down and never went back into business. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:48:37 -0700 (PDT) From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: Interesting job ad from HP Message-ID: <6be011a8-2b2f-49af-b67f-4d348ac0cf88@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> On Jun 11, 10:14=A0pm, "middie1...@gmail.com" wrote: > Again, never said such a move was impossible. =A0With time & money, just > about anything can be accomplished. > Eventually, hardware does wear out. =A0 That was the case with our old > Modcomps. =A0 They were good machines, but came to the end of their > natural life. =A0 A move had to be made -- and, in fact, some apps had > already been ported to VMS on Alpha some years before. Porting to a lessor platform is something this industry pays for over and over again in the form of scrap product. When downtime is $10K/ second and anything over a minute gets another $3mill added to it because you have to replaced the rollers the now scrap product is stuck to, the price of your OS is irrelevant. A hostile take over and bust up starts making a lot of sense to the MBA's with a spreadsheet. selling off each division until you have just what you need under a company you control starts looking very good on the balance sheet. There is nothing unique at HP other than OpenVMS. The printer and ink cartridge business could easily be sold off to a competitor, as could the PC unit. UX could easily be scrapped for a Linux distro. The test equipment might be harder to sell, so might remain. The consulting division could easily be sold off as has happened to EDS more than once. To bust up a company you don't have to take it completely over, just take over enough of the board to bust it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:50:34 -0700 (PDT) From: yyyc186 Subject: Re: Interesting job ad from HP Message-ID: <96e80580-d775-4cff-b9ff-857ff080624c@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On Jun 11, 10:58=A0pm, JF Mezei wrote: > middie1...@gmail.com wrote: > > =A0At > > the present time, we have no plans to move away from VMS. =A0 It is > > still the heart of many of our systems. > > Would it be fair to state that your applications are very stable, don't > change much, and that your capacity requirements are fairly fixed > (enough to run the plant) and that you arte not adding new applications > on that platform ? Most steel plants (for profitable companies anyway) are in expansion mode now. Adding new lines and new locations. The price of steel is way up and so is the demand. Likewise for most other metals. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:12:34 GMT From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan-Erik_S=F6derholm?= Subject: Re: LAT SET PORT problem Message-ID: Oh well, should have checked *THAT* first ! $ show logical port_11 "PORT_11" = "TNA1101:" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) $ Now, who the hell have defined *that* logical... :-) It's not in any .COM file on the system, so someone must have defined it manualy... Sorry for the intrusion... Jan-Erik. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jun 2008 23:23:16 -0500 From: BEGINcornelius@decuserve.orgEND (George Cornelius) Subject: Re: newsreader client for VMS Message-ID: In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > Alternatively, who knows enough to write some code to do the above, i.e. > connect to a server with password-based authentication and post an > article, including headers, as is? (I could then continue to use > NEWSRDR for everything except posting moderated articles.) For what it's worth, here are a couple of test programs developed under Linux that, respectively, display all messages in a newsgroup and post a message to a group. Again, I don't have the News::NNTPClient module installed under VMS and don't have enough confidence that it will work there to put any effort into trying to port these. -- George Cornelius cornelius A T eisner D O T decus D O T org cornelius A T mayo D O T edu =========================================================================== bash$ for i in *.pl ;do echo -e "\n>>> $i >>>\n";cat $i;done >>> nnchk.pl >>> #!/usr/bin/perl -w #!/usr/bin/perl # # nnchk.pl [group] [host] [port] [user] [pw] [debugflag] # # display all messages in a group # use News::NNTPClient; ($grp,$host,$port,$user,$pw,$dbg)=@ARGV; $grp="vmsnet.test" unless $grp; $host="nntp.aioe.org" unless $host; $port=119 unless $port; $dbg=0 unless $dbg; # print "\nnew News::NNTPClient\n"; $c = new News::NNTPClient($host,$port,$dbg) or die $!; if ( $user ) { print "\n\$c->authinfo(\$user,\$pw)\n"; $c->authinfo($user,$pw) or die $!; } print "\n\$c->group(\$grp)\n"; ($nn,$nfinal)=($c->group($grp)) or die $!; print "\n\n==== Article numbers: $nn .. $nfinal ====\n\n"; print "\n"; for (;$nn<=$nfinal;$nn++) { print "\n\n >>> Article $nn >>>\n\n"; print $c->article($nn); } >>> nnpost.pl >>> #!/usr/bin/perl -w #!/usr/bin/perl # # nnpost.pl [group] [host] [port] [user] [pw] [fname] [debugflag] # # Post message from file fname # use News::NNTPClient; ($grp,$host,$port,$user,$pw,$fname,$dbg)=@ARGV; $grp="vmsnet.test" unless $grp; $host="nntp.aioe.org" unless $host; $port=119 unless $port; $fname='/dev/stdin' unless $fname; $dbg=0 unless $dbg; # open FHNDL,$fname or die $!; # print "\nnew News::NNTPClient\n"; $c = new News::NNTPClient($host,$port,$dbg) or die $!; if ( $user ) { print "\n\$c->authinfo(\$user,\$pw)\n"; $c->authinfo($user,$pw) or die $!; } print "\n\$c->group(\$grp)\n"; ($nn,$nfinal)=($c->group($grp)) or die $!; print "\n\n==== Group $grp has article numbers: $nn .. $nfinal ====\n\n"; print "\n"; print "\n\$c->post(\)\n"; @stuff=; $c->post(@stuff) or die $!; bash$ =========================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:32:04 -0400 From: "Peter Weaver" Subject: RE: What filtering does Hotmail use? Message-ID: <002501c8cc2c$1fb40d20$2802a8c0@CHARONLAP> >... > > - After a lot of testing I find that if I create a brand new message it > > makes it through to the hotmail.com account about 50% of the time, > > If you test with your own account and your own account has sent you mail > once, your tests may not reflect you sending a message to someone for > the first time. In other words, there is no assurance that sending an > email to a new correspondant will ever make it to them. >... The other day the procedure $ set verify $ x=1 $loop: $ mail nl: "{myacct}@hotmail.com" - /subject="This is message # ''x' run # 3" /noself $ x = x + 1 $ wait 00:01 $ if x .lt. 101 then goto loop $ set noverify Resulted in only 50 messages making it through with no pattern I could see. My logs showed that Hotmail accepted all 100 messages. Today when I tried the same thing to demonstrate how bad Hotmail is all 100 messages made it through. :( But JF is very right that I will not be able to send an email to a hotmail user who has not sent me a message first until I move weaverconsulting.ca to a new DNS provider. And thanks for the comment about Sympatico using Hotmail now, that explains a lot. Last week I phoned a non-techie friend to invite him to our BBQ. He announced that he just got his first computer and the Sympatico DSL service. So I sent him an email while we were talking, he did not get it. I assumed that he had no idea what he was doing since he is very non-technical. He only received a message from me when I replied to the message he sent a few days later. I confirmed that the two people on Hotmail that I sent emails to did not receive the original BBQ invitation, but they both received a follow-up email sent over the weekend and they both received emails I sent three weeks before. Please people, don't let your friends use hotmail.com. Peter Weaver www.weaverconsulting.ca www.openvmsvirtualization.com www.vaxvirtualization.com www.alphavirtualization.com Winner of the 2007 OpenVMS.org Readers' Choice Award for System Management/Performance ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 23:56:00 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: What filtering does Hotmail use? Message-ID: <48509fb0$0$7257$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Peter Weaver wrote: > Please people, don't let your friends use hotmail.com. My californian aunt is on hotmail. Last year, during a death in the family, she came over, and using one computer at home, I would send her an email, print the log showing HOTMAIL accepting the email and then she would go into her inbox and not see it. Despite proving to her how bad hotmail was, she is still on it. But at least she knows why she never gets any emails from me. It is very hard to convince people to move off hotmail. The type of people who use Hotmail are the ones who think Microsoft is the standard and if there are problems, it must be because of the sender's system (even when proven it was hotmail). ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.326 ************************