INFO-VAX	Tue, 15 Apr 2008	Volume 2008 : Issue 210

   Contents:
Re: change password on node 1 from node 2
Re: change password on node 1 from node 2
F$PARSE SYNTAX_ONLY validating illegal version numbers
Re: F$PARSE SYNTAX_ONLY validating illegal version numbers
Re: F$PARSE SYNTAX_ONLY validating illegal version numbers
Re: Four CPU ES40 hanging
Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available
Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available
Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available
Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available
Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available
Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available
Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available
Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available
Roadmap for Alpha parts
Re: scripting a telnet session to VMS
Re: The Minimum You Need to Know About Service Oriented Architecture
Re: VMS advertising !
Re: VMS advertising !
Re: VMS advertising !
Re: VMS advertising !
Re: VMS advertising !
Re: VMS advertising !
Re: Why not SCSI? (was:Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ?)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:25:06 -0400
From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: change password on node 1 from node 2
Message-ID: <utWdnYt3Ub42Mp7VnZ2dnUVZ_g-dnZ2d@comcast.com>

John Santos wrote:
> In article <5dvEfgz3yRpz@eisner.encompasserve.org>, 
> koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org says...
>> In article <20080411160017.GA3095@mech-aslap33.men.bris.ac.uk>, Anton Shterenlikht <mexas@bristol.ac.uk> writes:
>>> On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 03:06:07PM +0200, Raf The Cat wrote:
>>>> hi hanton
>>>>
>>>> $ assign node2::sys$system:sysuaf.dat sysuaf
>>>> $ mc authorize mod .....
>>> mc is not a DCL command, is it? I can't find any info on mc.
>>    MC is the unique abreviation that selects the MCR command.  MCR was
>>    the primary command langauge on RSX-11M/M+ as was once a supported
>>    command language on VMS.
>>
> 
> "MC" is *NOT* a unique abbreviation for "MCR", at least not if you've
> added something to DCL_TABLES ($ set command ...) which collides.  It
> is not one of the few abbreviations (such as "r" for "run") which are
> always guaranteed to work.  However it is commonly used both here in
> c.o.v and in DEC/Compaq/HP-provided command procedures. There is no 
> warning if you define a colliding command. If the colliding command
> is in fact "MC_FOO", it is really, really hard to find and 
> eliminate/rename to something that doesn't collide with an existing
> command.  Been there, got the T-shirt and absolutely no thanks from
> the person who defined the colliding command (system-wide) and broke
> AUTOGEN among other things.
> 
> Please *DON'T* abbreviate DCL commands to less than 4 characters!
> 
<snip>

Please DO spell it out in full when you are writing a command procedure.
DCL is very readable when written that way and even a complete novice 
can get a good idea of what's going on.

Remember, it not only has to be executed by the computer but it must 
also be understood by those who will have to maintain it.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 18:17:42 -0400
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Subject: Re: change password on node 1 from node 2
Message-ID: <c6dcc$4803d7b5$cef8887a$26567@TEKSAVVY.COM>

Ken Robinson wrote:

> Those say nothing about heterogeneous clusters not being supported.

My cluster remained heterogenous for a while. One caveat that I had not
expected:

if the queue manager runs on node A. You submit a job on node B to run
on a node B queue. If the username used on Node B does not exist on Node
A, the job will fail because the queue manager will reject the job due
to invalid username from its point of view.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:05:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rich Jordan <jordan@ccs4vms.com>
Subject: F$PARSE SYNTAX_ONLY validating illegal version numbers
Message-ID: <6ce3c1fe-d986-4d78-b4ff-6828fc123080@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>

I'm putting together a DCL routine that accepts a wildcard file spec
as an input parameter.  Trying to be good and validating that
parameter before trying to use it, I passed it to F$PARSE with the
"SYNTAX_ONLY" argument.  My tests worked perfectly; empty return
string on all errors, until I mistyped a version number of 132767, and
got the string back (testing on a VAX).

It turns out I can enter any version number between -99999 (5 digits)
and 999999 (6 digits on the positive side) on a VAX/VMS V7.3 system,
-99999 through 99999 (5 digits on the positive side) on a Alpha VMS
V7.3-2 system and Alpha V8.3 system and F$PARSE will "validate" it.

This isn't really an issue for the current application since it only
looks at the highest version of a wildcard matched file (any version
info is stripped from the wildcard) but its still interesting.

If this is actually noted in a release note somewhere, sorry for the
redundant info.

Rich

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:48:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David P. Murphy" <dpm_google@myths.com>
Subject: Re: F$PARSE SYNTAX_ONLY validating illegal version numbers
Message-ID: <d144b627-b0cc-4419-8964-87ee08bef0d2@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>

http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83FINAL/9996/9996pro_111.html#green_28

"The parse operation simply validates that the provided file
specification
is syntactically correct; it does not enforce file specification
semantics.
For example, fields such as the version number are verified to contain
five or fewer numeric digits, optionally preceded by a hyphen (-), but
are not range checked."


ok
dpm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:02:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rich Jordan <jordan@ccs4vms.com>
Subject: Re: F$PARSE SYNTAX_ONLY validating illegal version numbers
Message-ID: <1db43eaa-f004-469a-9719-ffdfd44b53b8@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>

On Apr 14, 1:48 pm, "David P. Murphy" <dpm_goo...@myths.com> wrote:
> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83FINAL/9996/9996pro_111.html#green_28
>
> "The parse operation simply validates that the provided file
> specification
> is syntactically correct; it does not enforce file specification
> semantics.
> For example, fields such as the version number are verified to contain
> five or fewer numeric digits, optionally preceded by a hyphen (-), but
> are not range checked."
>
> ok
> dpm

KO thanks.  It is broken in 7.3 VAX (allows positive 6 digit version
numbers) but apparently they fixed it for the newer architectures.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:57:07 -0400
From: "Carl Friedberg" <frida.fried@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Four CPU ES40 hanging
Message-ID: <890539d90804141357v6a12722ajfbe482416efec455@mail.gmail.com>

Malcolm,

My client bought their first ES40 (dual 500MhZ EV6 CPUs) around 1999 IIRC.

Before they even powered it on, our CE came rushing over, and replaced
the mainboard and both CPUs (my memory may not be totally reliable
on this).

We put it into production, and it took a long time to sort out some
SCSI KZPSA / HSZ50 issues, but then it settled down, and worked.

Until it crashed. Locked up, we had to force a crash, sent it to Colorado.
They said "see if it happens again".

About six months later, it happened again. IIRC,

The crash dump was sent to CO one more time. After about six weeks,
word came back that my client was the first-ever 2-processor site
that experienced this known problem. It was a race condition in the
EV6/500mhz CPU. There was no way to fix the problem, except to
replace the CPU with a very special (very limited run) CPU, a
EV6.8/500mhz, again my recollection may be flakey.

That's why you can pick up EVA6/500mhz CPUs so cheap.

It might pay to go to a 667 or 833 at this point in time. Can't
hurt IMO.

Best,

Carl Friedberg


On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Malcolm Dunnett
<nothome@spammers.are.scum> wrote:
> Can someone out there refresh my memory on this. I have an ES40 with 4 CPUs.
> A couple of times in the last few months it has "hung". It falls out of the
> cluster and won't respond to the console terminal (^P doesn't do anything).
> Pressing the reset button on the OCP reboots it and it continues to run fine
> once again. I don' think it's a case of one of the CPUs failing as it never
> gets the CPUSPINWAIT error (yesterday it was hung for about 5 hours
> overnight)
>
>  ISTR a report a few years ago that early versions of ES40s with multiple
> CPUs showed a problem like this. Does anyone recall if that sounds like the
> same symptoms? This system has old EV6's in it:
>
>  CPU ID         0.                        CPU State    rc,pa,pp,cv,pv,pmv,pl
>  CPU Type       EV6  Pass 2.3 (21264)
>  PAL Code       1.98-4                    Halt PC      00000000.20000000
>  CPU Revision   ....                      Halt PS      00000000.00001F00
>  Serial Number  AY92637351                Halt Code    "Bootstrap or
> Powerfail"
>  Console Vers   V7.3-1                    Halt Request "Default, No Action"
>
>  IIRC you needed at least pass 2.5 to avoid the problem. I've got a set of
> 667MHz CPUs I can swap in there, but before I try that I'm hoping to verify
> that this sounds like the problem caused by the earlier CPU revs.
>
>  Anyone recall?
>

------------------------------

Date: 14 Apr 2008 23:29:43 GMT
From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Subject: Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available
Message-ID: <66i7n7F2kj7atU3@mid.individual.net>

In article <48022dd7$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
	Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:
> JF Mezei wrote:
>> Michael Kraemer wrote:
>>> VAXstations OTOH were ridiculously overprized
>>> compared to their RISC counterparts.
>> 
>> Replace the word "ridiculously" with "artificially".
>> 
>> DEC suffered from the "must not allow our high margin customers from
>> starting to buy more powerful and cheaper systems from us". They never
>> thought about attracting more new customers to compensate for the high
>> marghin customers buying cheaper systems from DEC.
>> 
>> So those high margin customers ended up buying smaller, more powerful
>> and cheaper systems from companies DEC refused to admit competed against
>> itself. (like compaq/microsoft)
>> 
>> DEC had had many opportunities from the early 1980s to the late 1980s to
>> really make it big. They missed them. Miseed the boat and were left behind.
> 
> No doubt that they had high margins.
> 
> But my guess is that the production costs were also higher.
> 
> VAX'es was build to last for decades and did (still do in some
> cases).
> 
> PC's are a use and throw away commodity. Nobody really cares
> if the parts start to fail after 4 years of 5x8 usage.
> 

That may be true today, but it certainly wasn't then.  I just recently
(within the last 6 months) got rid of a number of original IBM PC's
that while too slow for any reasonable use were still perfectly usable.
I still have PS/2's that work perfectly well, albeit a little slow.
I, like many others, have always believed that the VAX could have been
made and marketed competitive with PC hardware.  It was a decision by
DEC to not try to compete with the PC world then, just as it is iby HP
now.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
billg999@cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   

------------------------------

Date: 14 Apr 2008 23:45:42 GMT
From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Subject: Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available
Message-ID: <66i8l5F2kj7atU4@mid.individual.net>

In article <P2BRs+YPGnC7@cuebid.zko.hp.com>,
	brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes:
> billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
> 
>> If (and that's a real big if) they decided to port VMS to x86-64, who is
>> left to actually do it?  Because of the lack of expertise in things like
>> BLISS and MACRO how much would have to be re-written nthat dreaded "C"?
>> If large portions were written in C by the current crop of programmers,
>> how much of VMS's stability and integrity would be damaged or destroyed?
> 
> IF a port to a different architecture was done, it's almost a given that
> we would need to call in some hired guns to do things like port the BLISS
> compiler.

Where would you find them and why would you think that management would
agree to pay the obviously high pricetag they could and probably would
demand?

> 
> It's not clear why this bizarre notion that only new, inexperienced
> VMS engineers program in C.  Some of the more experienced members of
> VMS engineering are strong advocates of C.  Anyone remember "Writing
> OpenVMS Alpha Device Drivers in C"?  And that's a 12-year old book!


I didn't say only inexperienced programmers use C, but most people here
repeatedly have stated that no good code can be written in C.  (I don't
agree, but I am sure that puts me in the minority here.)

> 
> Nonetheless, a complete rewrite of BLISS and MACRO into C would not
> likely be the best solution should the likely-never-to-happen port
> to a different architecture be undertaken.

So you agree that VMS is on it's last architecture?  And what are your
long term prognostications regarding the Itanic?  :-)

bill
 

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
billg999@cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   

------------------------------

Date: 14 Apr 2008 23:46:55 GMT
From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Subject: Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available
Message-ID: <66i8nfF2kj7atU5@mid.individual.net>

In article <op.t9g4m2iyhv4qyg@murphus.hsd1.ca.comcast.net>,
	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company> writes:
> On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 10:26:54 -0700, Rob Brooks  
> <brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam> wrote:
> 
>> billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:
>>
>>> If (and that's a real big if) they decided to port VMS to x86-64, who is
>>> left to actually do it?  Because of the lack of expertise in things like
>>> BLISS and MACRO how much would have to be re-written nthat dreaded "C"?
>>> If large portions were written in C by the current crop of programmers,
>>> how much of VMS's stability and integrity would be damaged or destroyed?
>>
>> IF a port to a different architecture was done, it's almost a given that
>> we would need to call in some hired guns to do things like port the BLISS
>> compiler.
>>
>> It's not clear why this bizarre notion that only new, inexperienced
>> VMS engineers program in C.  Some of the more experienced members of
>> VMS engineering are strong advocates of C.  Anyone remember "Writing
>> OpenVMS Alpha Device Drivers in C"?  And that's a 12-year old book!
>>
>> Nonetheless, a complete rewrite of BLISS and MACRO into C would not
>> likely be the best solution should the likely-never-to-happen port
>> to a different architecture be undertaken.
>>
> VMS engineering has had brain-dead managment since the early 80's allowing
> the engineers to experiment with all sorts of crap, including C.
 
And in regards my last posting int his thread, I rest my case!!  :-)

bill
 

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
billg999@cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   

------------------------------

Date: 15 Apr 2008 00:05:25 GMT
From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Subject: Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available
Message-ID: <66i9q5F2kj7atU6@mid.individual.net>

In article <ftsh7j$khe$00$1@news.t-online.com>,
	Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de> writes:
> Arne Vajhøj schrieb:
> 
>> And some are done for free by developers having a day job
>> doing end user software.
> 
> I can't believe that too many developers are eligible
> for this kind of scenario.
> Somebody developing software 8+ hours a day for a living
> would hardly spend another 8 hours developing software for free.
 
Why would you say that?  I work with computers all day and then go home and
play with computers in my spare time.  Why else would I keep all those VAX,
PDP-11, Alpha, Sparc and other architectures around my house?  I would
guess the majority of developers of serious opensource projects have IT
jobs in the real world.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
billg999@cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:10:11 -0400
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Subject: Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available
Message-ID: <48040e7c$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> In article <48022dd7$0$90268$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
> 	Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:
>> JF Mezei wrote:
>>> Michael Kraemer wrote:
>>>> VAXstations OTOH were ridiculously overprized
>>>> compared to their RISC counterparts.
>>> Replace the word "ridiculously" with "artificially".
>>>
>>> DEC suffered from the "must not allow our high margin customers from
>>> starting to buy more powerful and cheaper systems from us". They never
>>> thought about attracting more new customers to compensate for the high
>>> marghin customers buying cheaper systems from DEC.
>>>
>>> So those high margin customers ended up buying smaller, more powerful
>>> and cheaper systems from companies DEC refused to admit competed against
>>> itself. (like compaq/microsoft)
>>>
>>> DEC had had many opportunities from the early 1980s to the late 1980s to
>>> really make it big. They missed them. Miseed the boat and were left behind.
>> No doubt that they had high margins.
>>
>> But my guess is that the production costs were also higher.
>>
>> VAX'es was build to last for decades and did (still do in some
>> cases).
>>
>> PC's are a use and throw away commodity. Nobody really cares
>> if the parts start to fail after 4 years of 5x8 usage.
> 
> That may be true today, but it certainly wasn't then.  I just recently
> (within the last 6 months) got rid of a number of original IBM PC's
> that while too slow for any reasonable use were still perfectly usable.
> I still have PS/2's that work perfectly well, albeit a little slow.
> I, like many others, have always believed that the VAX could have been
> made and marketed competitive with PC hardware.  It was a decision by
> DEC to not try to compete with the PC world then, just as it is iby HP
> now.

IBM made good PC's too.

But first they lowered the quality. And later they sold the business
to the chinese.

PC users are not willing to pay for quality.

With the growth in hardware "capacity" and software requirements
to hardware, then I can not even blame them - it makes sense.

Arne

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:15:15 -0400
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Subject: Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available
Message-ID: <48040fad$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> In article <P2BRs+YPGnC7@cuebid.zko.hp.com>,
> 	brooks@cuebid.zko.hp.nospam (Rob Brooks) writes:
>> It's not clear why this bizarre notion that only new, inexperienced
>> VMS engineers program in C.  Some of the more experienced members of
>> VMS engineering are strong advocates of C.  Anyone remember "Writing
>> OpenVMS Alpha Device Drivers in C"?  And that's a 12-year old book!
> 
> I didn't say only inexperienced programmers use C, but most people here
> repeatedly have stated that no good code can be written in C.  (I don't
> agree, but I am sure that puts me in the minority here.)

Obviously good code can be written in C.

And my guess would be that a lot of good programmers work with C.

Programmers very rarely choose the language to use themselves.

And I would say that C is a language where the difference between
good and bad programmers really show !

Arne

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 22:16:48 -0400
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Subject: Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available
Message-ID: <48041009$0$90275$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>

Michael Kraemer wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj schrieb:
>> No doubt that they had high margins.
>>
>> But my guess is that the production costs were also higher.
> 
> VAXstations were overpriced by a factor about three.
> I don't think this can be justified by higher production costs.

It can not justify the high price.

But it can prove that even with standard profit margin they
would not have been competitive with the standard PC's.

Arne

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 23:14:12 -0400
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Subject: Re: Longtime VMS system manager/programmer available
Message-ID: <3f7ed$48041ce6$cef8887a$6260@TEKSAVVY.COM>

Arne Vajhøj wrote:

> And I would say that C is a language where the difference between
> good and bad programmers really show !


At the time C was relatively new outside of unix, it was said that
assembler programmers were old enough to remember the absolute need to
write efficient code in a very small memory footprint.

Today, C programmers are the ones who are old enough to know to make
efficient programs without bloated structures  and giganourmous memory
and CPU requirements.  It the younger generation who grew up on C++,
perl, php, all the visual microsoft crap who now are so far detached
from the machines that they write bloated inefficient code and they have
no experience in needing to write efficient code since they just buy
more memory and faster CPU when their app needs it.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:22:21 -0400
From: "David Turner, Island Computers" <dturner@islandco.com>
Subject: Roadmap for Alpha parts
Message-ID: <TgNMj.23685$%15.522@bignews7.bellsouth.net>

I see on the PP presentation that the Alpha parts roadmap hits "the dead 
end" this month.
Has this been extended? Or is it a case of buy it where you can find it?



-- 
David B Turner

=============================================

Island Computers US Corp
PO Box 86
Tybee GA 31328

Toll Free: 1-877 636 4332 x201, Mobile x251
Email: dturner@islandco.com
International: 001 706 993 1787
Fax: 912 786 8505
Web: www.islandco.com

============================================= 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:05:43 +0000 (UTC)
From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk
Subject: Re: scripting a telnet session to VMS
Message-ID: <fu0dem$m4o$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>

In article <480169ae$0$90272$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:
>david20@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk wrote:
>> In article <47ec1994$0$90276$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:
>>> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>>>> Cygwin is a Weendoze terminal emulator?
>>> Cygwin is a *nix shell + utilities + libraries for Windows.
>>>
>>>>                                        I can't believe you'd be so lax
>>>> with system security to have username and password to a VMS machine hard-
>>>> coded into a script that any hacker who gets into the Weendoze box could 
>>>> exploit.
>>> The risk of hacking is probably lower than for most OS'es.
>>>
>> Well I suppose you could argue that there are so many unpatched badly mismanaged
>> Windows systems out there that you have to be unlucky for someone to pick on
>> your machine to hack into. 
>
>Most desktop Windows systems are not running a
>telnet/FTP/SSH/HTTP/whatever server.
>
>As a result they are for all practical purposes never hacked.
>
Lots of malware opens up backdoor ports and some of those run public-domain
ftp server software on those ports.

Also wormable vulnerabilities (ie those where no user intervention is 
necessary and the patch states that it may allow remote code execution 
are just as vulnerable to hackers as they are to having a worm written 
for them).


David webb
Security team leader
CCSS
Middlesex University


David Webb
Security team leader
CCSS
Middlesex University


>They get frequently virus'es, occasionally trojan horses and
>sometimes worms.
>
>It is estimate that 10-50 million PC'es are infected with malware.
>
>But I can not even remember having heard about a desktop Windows
>box being hacked. It probably has happened though.
>
>Arne

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:21:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: sean@obanion.us
Subject: Re: The Minimum You Need to Know About Service Oriented Architecture
Message-ID: <c7add912-1218-4867-bbed-70be61bbd282@a5g2000prg.googlegroups.com>

Might this by available at the upcoming Bootcamp?


Sean

On Apr 14, 10:12=A0am, yyyc186 <yyyc...@hughes.net> wrote:
> On Apr 14, 9:34=A0am, GraphicDave <graphicd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 13, 12:14=A0pm, yyyc186 <yyyc...@hughes.net> wrote:
>
> > > shipping on or about April 28, 2008. =A0It will be available at the
> > > usual places for this series and has a list price of $45.00 US.
>
> > Links to the 'usual places' would be nice.
>
> Island Computers will be updating their product catalog this week.
>
> Barnes and Noble is accepting orders as well.
>
> Amazon.com will never be allowed to carry it under any circumstances.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:15:17 +0000 (UTC)
From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply)
Subject: Re: VMS advertising !
Message-ID: <fu0hh4$r8v$1@online.de>

In article <c4idnXE6h6F4_J_VnZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@comcast.com>, Bob Willard
<BobwBSGS@TrashThis.comcast.net> writes: 

> > While it may or may no matter for VMS, at least one company protects
> > its old names: Exxon Mobil. Before the merger I distinctly remember
> > seeing tiny Esso labels on their gas pumps. (And post-merger we still
> > see separate Exxon and Mobil gas stations.) But I admit this may be
> > because it's still sold as Esso outside the U.S. But I'd think they'd

Yes, it's still Esso in Germany.  I don't know why.  The oil companies 
were among the first multinational corporations, and their names had 
little "local colour" or any other reason to have different ones in 
different countries.

> > still do it even if that weren't true. (Apparently you can't keep a
> > trade mark as exclusively your own if you don't use it.) 

That's true, but it still only applies in one area.  (To be sure, Esso
and Exxon are maybe different since, like Kodak, they are made-up
names.) 

> And, FWIW, Esso was derived from S.O., which stood for Standard Oil, which
> (under several names) sprang from John D. Rockefeller's monopoly.

Indeed.

------------------------------

Date: 14 Apr 2008 22:53:27 GMT
From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Subject: Re: VMS advertising !
Message-ID: <66i5j7F2kj7atU1@mid.individual.net>

In article <9JGdnedHDMSeRmLanZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@comcast.com>,
	"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:
> DaveG wrote:
>> On Apr 11, 5:12 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
>> Koehler) wrote:
>>> In article <C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BF62B81F...@G1W0487.americas.hpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.M...@hp.com> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The official name is OpenVMS, so why would anyone bother protecting the nam=
>>>> e "VMS?"
>>>    Customer relations.
>> 
>> "Old" customer relations, and I'm included in that group.  But what
>> the heck, the name changed to OpenVMS how many years ago?  At least
>> 10, probably more.
>> 
> 
> Does anyone really take the name change seriously?

Nope, no one did.  And that's why when people in a position to influence
IT purchasing go looking for VMS they find all that other crap and make
the logical assumption that the VMS they were looking for no longer
exists and they follow the crowd to Microsoft.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
billg999@cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   

------------------------------

Date: 14 Apr 2008 23:06:55 GMT
From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Subject: Re: VMS advertising !
Message-ID: <66i6cfF2kj7atU2@mid.individual.net>

In article <3c6ee$480096e1$cef8887a$32020@teksavvy.com>,
	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:
> P. Sture wrote:
> 
>> According to the "VMS at 20" PDF, "Major Releases" appendix, the first 
>> mentions of OpenVMS are:
>> 
>> OpenVMS/AXP V1.0 November 1992 - Alpha is here!
>> OpenVMS/VAX V6.0 June 1993
> 
> 
> The name changed was done by Palmer who was intent on running VMS into
> the ground (and ended up doing the same with Digital).
> 
> There is no respect for this name change since it is synonymous with a
> very dark period for VMS. It was also done based on a short term "trend
> of the day" and the word "open" has no meaning today.

It had no meaning in regards VMS even then.  What about VMS has ever been
"open"?  It is built with proprietary code and uses proprietary api's.
The very antithesis of the term "open".

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
billg999@cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:27:52 -0700
From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company>
Subject: Re: VMS advertising !
Message-ID: <op.t9mjgqjthv4qyg@murphus.hsd1.ca.comcast.net>

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:53:27 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <billg999@cs.uofs.ed=
u>  =

wrote:

> In article <9JGdnedHDMSeRmLanZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@comcast.com>,
> 	"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:
>> DaveG wrote:
>>> On Apr 11, 5:12 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
>>> Koehler) wrote:
>>>> In article  =

>>>> <C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BF62B81F...@G1W0487.americas.hpqcor=
p.net>,  =

>>>> "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.M...@hp.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The official name is OpenVMS, so why would anyone bother protectin=
g  =

>>>>> the nam=3D
>>>>> e "VMS?"
>>>>    Customer relations.
>>>
>>> "Old" customer relations, and I'm included in that group.  But what
>>> the heck, the name changed to OpenVMS how many years ago?  At least
>>> 10, probably more.
>>>
>>
>> Does anyone really take the name change seriously?
>
> Nope, no one did.  And that's why when people in a position to influen=
ce
> IT purchasing go looking for VMS they find all that other crap and mak=
e
> the logical assumption that the VMS they were looking for no longer
> exists and they follow the crowd to Microsoft.

Rebranding is long overdue,  you don't see IBM still using MVS.
>
> bill
>



-- =

PL/I for OpenVMS
www.kednos.com

------------------------------

Date: 15 Apr 2008 00:32:39 GMT
From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Subject: Re: VMS advertising !
Message-ID: <66ibd7F2kj7atU7@mid.individual.net>

In article <op.t9mjgqjthv4qyg@murphus.hsd1.ca.comcast.net>,
	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company> writes:
> On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:53:27 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <billg999@cs.uofs.ed=
> u>  =
> 
> wrote:
> 
>> In article <9JGdnedHDMSeRmLanZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@comcast.com>,
>> 	"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:
>>> DaveG wrote:
>>>> On Apr 11, 5:12 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
>>>> Koehler) wrote:
>>>>> In article  =
> 
>>>>> <C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BF62B81F...@G1W0487.americas.hpqcor=
> p.net>,  =
> 
>>>>> "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.M...@hp.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The official name is OpenVMS, so why would anyone bother protectin=
> g  =
> 
>>>>>> the nam=3D
>>>>>> e "VMS?"
>>>>>    Customer relations.
>>>>
>>>> "Old" customer relations, and I'm included in that group.  But what
>>>> the heck, the name changed to OpenVMS how many years ago?  At least
>>>> 10, probably more.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone really take the name change seriously?
>>
>> Nope, no one did.  And that's why when people in a position to influen=
> ce
>> IT purchasing go looking for VMS they find all that other crap and mak=
> e
>> the logical assumption that the VMS they were looking for no longer
>> exists and they follow the crowd to Microsoft.
> 
> Rebranding is long overdue,  

Why?  What was wrong with a name like VMS with all the recognition it
had in the IT world?

>                              you don't see IBM still using MVS.

Maybe not, but they don't seem to have a problem still using OS/400 or
CICS.  Don't see any rebranding there.  When you have very strong 
product recognition, why would you willingly choose to abandon it?
Of course, we all know what the result of this rebranding was!!

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
billg999@cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:57:59 -0700
From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company>
Subject: Re: VMS advertising !
Message-ID: <op.t9mnmx1mhv4qyg@murphus.hsd1.ca.comcast.net>

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:32:39 -0700, Bill Gunshannon <billg999@cs.uofs.ed=
u>  =

wrote:

> In article <op.t9mjgqjthv4qyg@murphus.hsd1.ca.comcast.net>,
> 	"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company> writes:
>> On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:53:27 -0700, Bill Gunshannon  =

>> <billg999@cs.uofs.ed=3D
>> u>  =3D
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <9JGdnedHDMSeRmLanZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@comcast.com>,
>>> 	"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:
>>>> DaveG wrote:
>>>>> On Apr 11, 5:12 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
>>>>> Koehler) wrote:
>>>>>> In article  =3D
>>
>>>>>> <C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BF62B81F...@G1W0487.americas.hpqc=
or=3D
>> p.net>,  =3D
>>
>>>>>> "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.M...@hp.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The official name is OpenVMS, so why would anyone bother protect=
in=3D
>> g  =3D
>>
>>>>>>> the nam=3D3D
>>>>>>> e "VMS?"
>>>>>>    Customer relations.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Old" customer relations, and I'm included in that group.  But wha=
t
>>>>> the heck, the name changed to OpenVMS how many years ago?  At leas=
t
>>>>> 10, probably more.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone really take the name change seriously?
>>>
>>> Nope, no one did.  And that's why when people in a position to influ=
en=3D
>> ce
>>> IT purchasing go looking for VMS they find all that other crap and m=
ak=3D
>> e
>>> the logical assumption that the VMS they were looking for no longer
>>> exists and they follow the crowd to Microsoft.
>>
>> Rebranding is long overdue,
>
> Why?  What was wrong with a name like VMS with all the recognition it
> had in the IT world?

I am disappointed, Bill, I thought you were sharper than that:-)  Why do=

you think IBM rebranded MVS (OS/390) to z/os and mainframe to z-series?
Drumroll ... because ... they had a stale sound in the market.  OpenVMS
is in precisely the same predicament, and I am dumfounded that VMS  =

management
is so incompetent as to not recognize this.
>
>>                              you don't see IBM still using MVS.
>
> Maybe not, but they don't seem to have a problem still using OS/400 or=

> CICS.  Don't see any rebranding there.  When you have very strong
> product recognition, why would you willingly choose to abandon it?
> Of course, we all know what the result of this rebranding was!!
>
> bill
>



-- =

PL/I for OpenVMS
www.kednos.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 11:43:33 -0700
From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company>
Subject: Re: Why not SCSI? (was:Re: Maximum IDE disk size for DS10L ?)
Message-ID: <op.t9l6avo1hv4qyg@murphus>

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:26:14 -0700, FrankS <sapienza@noesys.com> wrote:

> On Apr 13, 11:12 pm, "Tom Linden" <t...@kednos.company> wrote:
>> These drives typically consume 12 - 15 W in staedyb state
>
> The power supplies are 180W on each of the 6-drive shelves in the
> BA370 array.  (The BA370 was used in RA8000, ESA10000, ESA12000, and I
> believe other cabinets.)  I've never had issues with power or heat.
> There are six fans (maybe eight, it's in the basement) on the back of
> the BA370.

8




-- 
PL/I for OpenVMS
www.kednos.com

------------------------------

End of INFO-VAX 2008.210
************************