INFO-VAX Tue, 29 Jan 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 57 Contents: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Re: DECTerm and xterm Re: DECTerm and xterm Re: DECTerm and xterm Re: DECTerm and xterm Re: DECTerm and xterm Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Looking for a DECserver 200/MC/ or 300 Re: M$IE; was: DSPP Integrity remanufactured h/w... Re: M$IE; was: DSPP Integrity remanufactured h/w... Re: M$IE; was: DSPP Integrity remanufactured h/w... Re: M$IE; was: DSPP Integrity remanufactured h/w... Re: M$IE; was: DSPP Integrity remanufactured h/w... Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Re: Using disk space on NAS? Re: Using disk space on NAS? Re: Using disk space on NAS? Re: Using disk space on NAS? Re: Using disk space on NAS? Re: VT100 standards Re: VT100 standards Re: VT100 standards Re: VT100 standards ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:32:10 -0800 (PST) From: John Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <439a16b5-ba35-4fdf-9462-013fd5e9e2b8@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Jan 28, 7:59 am, m.krae...@gsi.de (Michael Kraemer) wrote: > In article <479df848$0$16196$c3e8...@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei > > writes: > > Having TPU on Unix would make you productive right away with editing > > files. Forcing you to learn vi or emacs will waste weeks before you are > > comfortable, and years of experience before you are as productive with > > it as with TPU. > > come on, you're kidding, right ? > "vi" these days is the last resort if you've got no GUI > or if you want to have that certain retro feeling. > As an IT professional you don't need weeks to learn a more recent editor. > If emacs is too heavy weight for you, you may try the lean "nedit" > instead. It might even be available for VMS, and if you're not > running on a workstation you can export its output to a Mac's > X11 server. My university starts the CS courses with emacs, but welcomes us to learn vi instead. Several of my professors are amazingly proficient at vi; they can do pretty complex stuff very very fast, much faster than in some "modern", "user-friendly" (read: simplistic) editor. Nedit at least seems decent; I'm glad you didn't suggest nano or pico, because my open-mindedness shuts down and my blind murderous rage kicks in whenever somebody says "emacs is too hard, just learn nano" :) If I didn't use emacs, I'd use vi. Saying vi is a last resort is just silly... there are only four editors I like much, and they are emacs, vi, TPU, and acme. Not that I'm trying to start an editor holy war or anything. John ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 2008 16:48:52 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <$vl2LHgV6Lkh@eisner.encompasserve.org> In article <601q26F1p0i7fU1@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > There is no code in existant that doesn't have bugs. Hype. ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 2008 23:34:29 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <607745F1p97p1U1@mid.individual.net> In article , Keith Parris writes: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >> If the demand for VMS were all that great, there would be no need for a >> clone. > > One could analogously say: "If the demand for UNIX were all that great, > there would be no need for Linux." but that wouldn't make sense, either. > > Linux (or *bsd if you prefer) provided things no proprietary/Legacy UNIX > could or can today: open source freedom and the removal of dependency on > any single vendor. > >> The future is Windoze on the desktop and Windows and/or Unix in the data >> center. > > Linux is more likely than UNIX in the datacenter in the future. > > But I feel there is room for another OS in the mix: a reliable > open-source alternative to these operating systems -- one which is by > careful design secure (no viruses), has high availability, and great > clustering ability. One which could be seen as an alternative to the > older, tired choices. I agree. So, when do we start a cloning project for RSTS/E on x86 hardware? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 2008 23:38:10 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Anyone interested in building a vms-like OS? Message-ID: <6077b2F1p97p1U2@mid.individual.net> In article <479E578D.5020502@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > Keith Parris wrote: >> Richard B. Gilbert wrote: >> >>> If the demand for VMS were all that great, there would be no need for >>> a clone. >> >> >> One could analogously say: "If the demand for UNIX were all that great, >> there would be no need for Linux." but that wouldn't make sense, either. >> > > > Yeah, but Linux is free. Unix used to cost money and, in some cases, I > suppose it still does. Solaris has been free for a couple of years now, > you can download a copy from Sun.com, agree to the license agreement and > use it any machine(s) you can afford. All free. Support is not free. > > The last time I looked, VMS was anything but free (for commercial use). > I bought my VMS licenses with my machine! In actual fact, something was > free. What I paid would not cover both the cost of the machine and the > licenses. The fact that I bought a machine at "EOL clearance" might > have something to do with that! > > A case could be made that DEC's pricing was responsible for both the > decline of DEC and the decline of VMS. > > Don't get me wrong; I love VMS and VMS provided an excellent living for > twenty years and has provided a good retirement as well. But the sad > fact is that the market for VMS people has pretty much dried up. Yes, and if there wre a commercially friendly non HP owned version of VMS then there would be renewed market for people to support it (as HP wouldn't be) and, god forbid, it could even be marketed just like Linux is. Maybe even have a magazine of its own. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:28:48 -0500 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: DECTerm and xterm Message-ID: "Thomas Dickey" wrote in message news:13ps1r0niirk8c6@corp.supernews.com... > FredK wrote: > >> xterm is mostly junk written by people with only a hazy idea of ANSI >> standards at best. But like PCterm - they didn't really care much about >> compliance with a standard. > > glad to see your comments. too bad they're worthless. > > regards. > My apologies the slam. For what it's worth, I stopped doing terminal emulation in the late 1980's, having written the core logic that eventually was taken and ported to X11 as DECterm/dxterm - so my opinion on xterm is heavily colored by it's state back then. Even though I haven't done terminals in 20 years - I continue to get people complaining to me about applications that do bad things - because they use non-ANSI sequences invented by xterm - or mangled by PCterm users. As I said in another post, xterm has incrementally improved over time. The general limitations of this kind of (free) code is that it is only as good as who writes/maintains it and how much time and energy they have to devote to it. I had an equally low opinion of the VT100 emulator that my code replaced - it was written by a guy who programmed it using the VT100 users guide. FWIW - From a terminal architect standpoint, UFT-8 capability should be something that should be inquired from the terminal by an application before it attempts to use it. Using C locale functions/environment variables doesn't tell you what is on the other end of the wire. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:39:02 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: DECTerm and xterm Message-ID: <479e6818$0$15793$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> FredK wrote: > Even though I haven't done terminals in 20 years - I continue to get people > complaining to me about applications that do bad things - because they use > non-ANSI sequences invented by xterm - or mangled by PCterm users. How easy was it for those people to get official VT escape sequences from DEC back then ? The VT220 basic sequences were documented in the manuals. But I recall Frank da Cruz requiring informal relationship with individuals within DEC to get those extra sequences not published. DEC should have worked to evolve the ANSI standard to include the dec private sequences into the standard. On OS-X, XTERM appears to be a really basic X-only application. Its scroll bars are more primitive than a 1984 macintosh. No menu bar for various functions. Is that the case for all Xterms ? Or would Xterms built on platforms that provide X middleware (such as motif, kde/whatever) provide a richer graphical environment ? Also, remember that DECTERM supports SIXEL and REGIS. (and I suspect tektronix). It has a superior UI to xterm, and superior terminal emulation. It would be worth it for the world to benefit from it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 00:05:49 -0000 From: Thomas Dickey Subject: Re: DECTerm and xterm Message-ID: <13psreted89jp70@corp.supernews.com> FredK wrote: > My apologies the slam. thanks > For what it's worth, I stopped doing terminal emulation in the late 1980's, > having written the core logic that eventually was taken and ported to X11 as > DECterm/dxterm - so my opinion on xterm is heavily colored by it's state > back then. > Even though I haven't done terminals in 20 years - I continue to get people > complaining to me about applications that do bad things - because they use > non-ANSI sequences invented by xterm - or mangled by PCterm users. iirc, aside from the legacy sequences as noted (and from vt100's non-ANSI), xterm's additions have been with an eye on the relevant standards. > As I said in another post, xterm has incrementally improved over time. The > general limitations of this kind of (free) code is that it is only as good > as who writes/maintains it and how much time and energy they have to devote > to it. I had an equally low opinion of the VT100 emulator that my code > replaced - it was written by a guy who programmed it using the VT100 users > guide. > FWIW - From a terminal architect standpoint, UFT-8 capability should be > something that should be inquired from the terminal by an application before > it attempts to use it. Using C locale functions/environment variables > doesn't tell you what is on the other end of the wire. I suppose so, but none of the systems on which it's been implemented appear to have provisions for negotiation (and the related escape sequences overlook that detail). It could be added, but I'm not sure anyone would use it. -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 02:30:33 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: DECTerm and xterm Message-ID: FredK wrote: > According to a brief search, applications should first be doing something > like: > > utf8_mode = (strcmp(nl_langinfo(CODESET), "UTF-8") == 0); > > or > > char *s; > int utf8_mode = 0; > > if (((s = getenv("LC_ALL")) && *s) || > ((s = getenv("LC_CTYPE")) && *s) || > ((s = getenv("LANG")) && *s)) { > if (strstr(s, "UTF-8")) > utf8_mode = 1; > } > > to check for UTF-8 encoding. I will look to see if I can find where a check is not being made. The code to query terminal information in Perl on VMS looks like it could use some work. > They were not swift enough to invent a VT-like terminal query to find out if > the emulator is UTF-8 capable. It sounds like the applications in question > are simply assuming UTF-8 is available on the emulator. That was my assumption. But using xterm or putty was intended to work around that issue instead of fixing it. > From a quick look at the DECterm code, the control sequence (suprise, they > actually did register one!) %G is ignored - so my guess is that the > terminal 'hang' is a result of a subsequent byte in the UTF-8 stream that is > encoding a non-ASCII character with a multi-byte character. The encoding > for these characters seem to fall into the ANSI C1 control set. Thanks for the hint. > As to the degree of difficulty in merging UTF-8 into a VT400/500 terminal > emulator... that is hard to say. There is multi-byte support for Kanji - > which means it is possible that some basic groundwork has been done (16-bit > fonts). The incoming byte stream would need a UTF-8 handler to seperate out > the non-graphic data to feed to the ANSI parser, and the variable sized > graphic character input normalized either into a 16-bit quantity or an > attribute that shifts the encoding for the character correctly. > > Not trivial. Not brain surgery. Some significant work just from the point > of view that the "core" terminal emulation logic hasn't been extensively > changed in something like 15 years. Probably simpler all around for those > Linux/UNIX applications to just find/update a recent xterm port. That was my thought exactly, since my needs are only for my home hobby systems. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 03:18:03 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: DECTerm and xterm Message-ID: FredK wrote: > Ah, a new non-ANSI xterm extension. My guess is that the sequence it sends > is another one of those badly broken OSC type sequences that xterm allows to > be terminated with a BELL character. The same reason that the sequence that > changes the banner text hangs. > > Neither DECterm (or VWS for that matter) or xterm does real "smooth" > scrolling, which on a VT100 was a scanline at a time. Both implement a form > of "jump" scrolling where multiple lines of text can update at once during > scrolling instead of a single line at a time. The main difference between > the two is that the amount of jump can be controlled on DECterm (the batch > count) where on xterm there is no means to limit it - a batch count as large > as the terminal line count is the same thing. Under that situation doing > something like TYPE of a file to a screen can result in a few lines being > output, everything in the middle skipped, and the last screen being > displayed. The main limitation to DECterm and xterm is that unlike the VWS > emulator - it only works in the UP scroll direction (linefeed/index) and not > in the DOWN scroll direction (reverse index). So editing scrolls fast down > through the file and slow up through the file. With systems and graphics > being so fast today, this isn't usually a huge issue anymore. Ok. I have not noticed an issue with DECTerms there, so probably xterm will be ok there. > This "screen" thing sounds interesting. But it is the type of thing that is > only possible if you have someone to work full time on it (as a job or > hobby). It isn't clear how useful (multi-session terminal capability) these > days where serial connections are less likely to be the norm, and TELNET is > more common - so just have multiple terminal windows. Screen is not intended for multi-session. Screen is used for session recovery for when your network connection or the system running the terminal emulator goes down. It buffers the screen output while disconnected, and repaints the screen on connection. It only provides support for VT100 escape sequences. I have not yet looked at the source to see how hard it would be to port to VMS. > Missing LK keys need a combination of both support in the emulator, and > support in the driver. The keys need to be handled by the driver and handed > up to the emulator, and the emulator has to be capable of knowing what they > are. Usually scancodes are converted by the driver (or in the X11 case in > Xlib) to some normalized input codes - so the codes have to get out of the > driver and there needs to be knowledge of how to map them. It appears that Windows/XP and probably VISTA keyboard drivers support all having an LK series keyboard. PowerTerm was able to detect and use the keys on several plain vanilla XP systems that I tried. Reflections (at least my ancient version) seems to require a special helper file, which does not appear to be available for any more for my version. I have not had a chance to see what it would take to get putty to use an LK keyboard. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:32:04 +1100 From: Gremlin Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: <13pseu6qto8o5a@corp.supernews.com> Gorazd Kikelj wrote: > "Gremlin" wrote in message > news:13prgsadghden32@corp.supernews.com... >> Gorazd Kikelj wrote: >>> "Gremlin" wrote in message >>> news:13pred3ep0mfn5e@corp.supernews.com... >>>> From VMS >>>> >> OK, so now... >> $ tcpip sho proxy/full >> >> VMS User_name Type User_ID Group_ID Host_name >> >> VMSusername OND 1001 100 WindowsHost >> >> Logged in as VMSusername, which has lots of privs including sysprv etc. >> >> Same problem..... >> > > NFS server reject the connection. Can you get some TCPIP traces to see, what > UID/GID > you are getting on windows side. > > Problem is on Windows side. No VMS privs will help with that :-( > > Best, Gorazd > > I guess the problem is on the Windows side, but it must be because of something the VMS side is sending. As I noted earlier, I can use any Linux client to connect without specifying anything - it works in anonymous mode!! So there should be a "dummy" mode in VMS that works the same... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:35:05 +1100 From: Gremlin Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: <13psf3rdk4a0a64@corp.supernews.com> JF Mezei wrote: > Gremlin wrote: > >> $ tcpip mou dnfs1: data1 /host="x.y.z" /system /structure=5 >> /noadf /path="/nfsdata"/uid=1001/gid=100/user=VMSusername >> %TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-S-MOUNTED, nfsdata mounted on _DNFS1:[000000] > > you need to specify /SERVER=UNIX for the /structure=5 to be effective. > But this isn't related to your cuirrent problem. > > >> $ dir dnfs1:[000000] >> %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DNFS1:[000000]*.*;* as input >> -RMS-E-PRV, insufficient privilege or file protection violation > > > Which username is being used to do the mount, and which username is used > to do the DIR ? You would need outgoing proxies for both. > > You might also want do do a SHOW DEV DNFSx: /FULL > > Mine gives: > >> show dev dnfs1/full >> >> Disk DNFS1: (CHAIN), device type Foreign disk type 7, is online, mounted, file- >> oriented device, shareable, accessed via DFS or NFS. >> >> Error count 0 Operations completed 13852 >> Owner process "" Owner UIC [SYSTEM] >> Owner process ID 00000000 Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:RWPL,W:RWPL >> Reference count 1 Default buffer size 512 >> Total blocks 38835000 Sectors per track 0 >> Total cylinders 0 Tracks per cylinder 0 >> Allocation class 11 >> >> Volume label "BRAKES$/" Relative volume number 0 >> Cluster size 0 Transaction count 1 >> Free blocks unknown Maximum files allowed 0 >> Extend quantity 0 Mount count 1 >> Mount status System ACP process name "DNFS1ACP" >> >> Volume Status: ODS-5, access dates enabled. > > > > Remember that MOUNT deals with the MOUNTD deamon at the other end, > whereas the DIR deals with the NFS deamon. Does Windows offer any tools > to monitor the NFS mounting ? Hi JF Earlier posts showed that the server type was showing as UNIX when doing a tcpip sho/mount. Also, the posts showed using Windows nfsstat showing that the VMS had successfully mounted the share. I am using the same username to mount/access the share and have done a set proc/priv=all just to be sure.....it has outgoing proxies set... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:13:53 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: <01e9ca48$0$9068$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Gremlin wrote: > I am using the same username to mount/access the share and have done a > set proc/priv=all just to be sure.....it has outgoing proxies set... The VMS privileges are absolutely , totally meaningless to grant you access to the remote server. The remote server decides what you can and cannot access and it has no idea nor concept of what your VMS privileges are. It was relatively easy for me to get the VMS client to mount the MAC disk. But the other way around took a lot more trial and error, probably because automount runs as root and the actual accesses are done by my username. The fix ended up being with the proxies on VMS. I would suggest you take a serious look at the windows setup to ensure you have the right flags setup and that the exported directory belongs to the user who will be accessing it. aka: make sure that the VMS username is mapped to a UID/GID combination which, on windows is mapped to a windows username that has read/write access to the directory you are exporting. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:14:15 +1100 From: Gremlin Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: <13pta0unqhh2cbf@corp.supernews.com> JF Mezei wrote: > Gremlin wrote: > >> I am using the same username to mount/access the share and have done a >> set proc/priv=all just to be sure.....it has outgoing proxies set... > > > The VMS privileges are absolutely , totally meaningless to grant you > access to the remote server. The remote server decides what you can and > cannot access and it has no idea nor concept of what your VMS privileges > are. > > It was relatively easy for me to get the VMS client to mount the MAC > disk. But the other way around took a lot more trial and error, probably > because automount runs as root and the actual accesses are done by my > username. The fix ended up being with the proxies on VMS. > > I would suggest you take a serious look at the windows setup to ensure > you have the right flags setup and that the exported directory belongs > to the user who will be accessing it. > > aka: make sure that the VMS username is mapped to a UID/GID combination > which, on windows is mapped to a windows username that has read/write > access to the directory you are exporting. > > > > Hi JF It is increasingly frustrating because it is *only* the VMS client that show the mapping error when trying to access the NFS mount. All clients can mount - including VMS. Only VMS can't read/list. So, on the VMS side I use a single username and I am logged in as it. That username and the NFS host is in the proxy with outgoing/incoming access to the NFS server. So far, so good. The Windows side has a single mapping entry for users with the identical VMS username, UID and GID. It is mapped to a windows domain administrator account which has full rights over everything on the Windows environment. I checked the detailed permissions on the directory/file area and it has full access for all files, subfolders etc. And besides, any Linux client *can* list the files in anonymous mode. The .maphosts file has a single entry, + I cannot make it any simpler, but *something* the VMS client is doing is broken - at the very least, with no proxy entry the access should appear to be anonymous and then work like *all* the linux clients - but it doesn't!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:31:30 +1100 From: Gremlin Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: <13ptb14e8nvvr86@corp.supernews.com> JF Mezei wrote: > Gremlin wrote: > >> I am using the same username to mount/access the share and have done a >> set proc/priv=all just to be sure.....it has outgoing proxies set... > > > The VMS privileges are absolutely , totally meaningless to grant you > access to the remote server. The remote server decides what you can and > cannot access and it has no idea nor concept of what your VMS privileges > are. > > It was relatively easy for me to get the VMS client to mount the MAC > disk. But the other way around took a lot more trial and error, probably > because automount runs as root and the actual accesses are done by my > username. The fix ended up being with the proxies on VMS. > > I would suggest you take a serious look at the windows setup to ensure > you have the right flags setup and that the exported directory belongs > to the user who will be accessing it. > > aka: make sure that the VMS username is mapped to a UID/GID combination > which, on windows is mapped to a windows username that has read/write > access to the directory you are exporting. > > > > But wait, there's more!!!! Pursuing how to make VMS connect anonymously, like all the Linux clients.....I removed the proxy entry - that should make it appear anonymous! $ tcpip rem proxy VMSusername VMS User_name Type User_ID Group_ID Host_name VMSusername OND 1001 100 x.y.z Remove? [N]:y $ tcpip mou dnfs1: /host="x.y.z"/path="/nfsdata"/struc=5 %TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-S-MOUNTED, /nfsdata mounted on _DNFS1:[000000] $ dir dnfs1:[000000] %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DNFS1:[000000]*.*;* as input -RMS-E-DNF, directory not found -SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeout $ tcpip dism/all %TCPIP$DNFSDISMOUNT-S-DISMOUNTED, _DNFS1:[000000] dismounted OK, back to our old friend the timeout. Repeated testing - no proxy (anonymous access?) and it mounts OK just like before, but reading gets a device timeout, *NOT* a mapping error. Put the proxy in (see entry above) and it gets a mapping error - take it out and VMS becomes confused about the device although Windows showmount -a localhost shows it is mounted. I still think something is broken on the VMS side - if the proxy is removed then access should be anonymous - the device error/timeout should't be there if anonymous mapping failed, there should be a mapping error on the Windows side and an RMS-E-PRV on the VMS side. Any thoughts? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:51:31 -0700 From: "Michael D. Ober" Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: <13ptc6k9jn4228e@corp.supernews.com> "Gremlin" wrote in message news:13ptb14e8nvvr86@corp.supernews.com... > JF Mezei wrote: >> Gremlin wrote: >> >>> I am using the same username to mount/access the share and have done a >>> set proc/priv=all just to be sure.....it has outgoing proxies set... >> >> >> The VMS privileges are absolutely , totally meaningless to grant you >> access to the remote server. The remote server decides what you can and >> cannot access and it has no idea nor concept of what your VMS privileges >> are. >> >> It was relatively easy for me to get the VMS client to mount the MAC >> disk. But the other way around took a lot more trial and error, probably >> because automount runs as root and the actual accesses are done by my >> username. The fix ended up being with the proxies on VMS. >> >> I would suggest you take a serious look at the windows setup to ensure >> you have the right flags setup and that the exported directory belongs >> to the user who will be accessing it. >> >> aka: make sure that the VMS username is mapped to a UID/GID combination >> which, on windows is mapped to a windows username that has read/write >> access to the directory you are exporting. >> >> >> >> > But wait, there's more!!!! > > Pursuing how to make VMS connect anonymously, like all the Linux > clients.....I removed the proxy entry - that should make it appear > anonymous! > > $ tcpip rem proxy VMSusername > > VMS User_name Type User_ID Group_ID Host_name > > VMSusername OND 1001 100 x.y.z > Remove? [N]:y > > $ tcpip mou dnfs1: /host="x.y.z"/path="/nfsdata"/struc=5 > %TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-S-MOUNTED, /nfsdata mounted on _DNFS1:[000000] > $ dir dnfs1:[000000] > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DNFS1:[000000]*.*;* as input > -RMS-E-DNF, directory not found > -SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeout > $ tcpip dism/all > %TCPIP$DNFSDISMOUNT-S-DISMOUNTED, _DNFS1:[000000] dismounted > > > OK, back to our old friend the timeout. Repeated testing - no proxy > (anonymous access?) and it mounts OK just like before, but reading gets a > device timeout, *NOT* a mapping error. > > Put the proxy in (see entry above) and it gets a mapping error - take it > out and VMS becomes confused about the device although Windows > showmount -a localhost shows it is mounted. > > I still think something is broken on the VMS side - if the proxy is > removed then access should be anonymous - the device error/timeout > should't be there if anonymous mapping failed, there should be a mapping > error on the Windows side and an RMS-E-PRV on the VMS side. > > Any thoughts? > When I was attempting the same thing last year, I finally determined that the issue is that the VMS client appears to be a V3 client to Windows Services for Unix (SFU), but that it is actually only a V2 client. This apparently causes Windows SFU to send protocol information back to VMS that the VMS client can't handle. The real solution is for HP to bring their VMS NFS Client up to at least V3 standards. What's interesting is that neither HP nor MS are willing to resolve this issue - I called both. I gave up and called Hummingbird and had it working inside a day. Mike. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:20:10 +1100 From: Gremlin Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: <13ptdsbm4997545@corp.supernews.com> Michael D. Ober wrote: > "Gremlin" wrote in message > news:13ptb14e8nvvr86@corp.supernews.com... >> JF Mezei wrote: >>> Gremlin wrote: >>> >>>> I am using the same username to mount/access the share and have done >>>> a set proc/priv=all just to be sure.....it has outgoing proxies set... >>> >>> >>> The VMS privileges are absolutely , totally meaningless to grant you >>> access to the remote server. The remote server decides what you can and >>> cannot access and it has no idea nor concept of what your VMS privileges >>> are. >>> >>> It was relatively easy for me to get the VMS client to mount the MAC >>> disk. But the other way around took a lot more trial and error, probably >>> because automount runs as root and the actual accesses are done by my >>> username. The fix ended up being with the proxies on VMS. >>> >>> I would suggest you take a serious look at the windows setup to ensure >>> you have the right flags setup and that the exported directory belongs >>> to the user who will be accessing it. >>> >>> aka: make sure that the VMS username is mapped to a UID/GID combination >>> which, on windows is mapped to a windows username that has read/write >>> access to the directory you are exporting. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> But wait, there's more!!!! >> >> Pursuing how to make VMS connect anonymously, like all the Linux >> clients.....I removed the proxy entry - that should make it appear >> anonymous! >> >> $ tcpip rem proxy VMSusername >> >> VMS User_name Type User_ID Group_ID Host_name >> >> VMSusername OND 1001 100 x.y.z >> Remove? [N]:y >> >> $ tcpip mou dnfs1: /host="x.y.z"/path="/nfsdata"/struc=5 >> %TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-S-MOUNTED, /nfsdata mounted on _DNFS1:[000000] >> $ dir dnfs1:[000000] >> %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DNFS1:[000000]*.*;* as input >> -RMS-E-DNF, directory not found >> -SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeout >> $ tcpip dism/all >> %TCPIP$DNFSDISMOUNT-S-DISMOUNTED, _DNFS1:[000000] dismounted >> >> >> OK, back to our old friend the timeout. Repeated testing - no proxy >> (anonymous access?) and it mounts OK just like before, but reading >> gets a device timeout, *NOT* a mapping error. >> >> Put the proxy in (see entry above) and it gets a mapping error - take >> it out and VMS becomes confused about the device although Windows >> showmount -a localhost shows it is mounted. >> >> I still think something is broken on the VMS side - if the proxy is >> removed then access should be anonymous - the device error/timeout >> should't be there if anonymous mapping failed, there should be a >> mapping error on the Windows side and an RMS-E-PRV on the VMS side. >> >> Any thoughts? >> > > > When I was attempting the same thing last year, I finally determined > that the issue is that the VMS client appears to be a V3 client to > Windows Services for Unix (SFU), but that it is actually only a V2 > client. This apparently causes Windows SFU to send protocol information > back to VMS that the VMS client can't handle. The real solution is for > HP to bring their VMS NFS Client up to at least V3 standards. > > What's interesting is that neither HP nor MS are willing to resolve this > issue - I called both. I gave up and called Hummingbird and had it > working inside a day. > > Mike. > > Hi It is very sad - I am sure there is something broken, therefore a solution - but JF has eloquently expressed his and other's frustration at the HP "support", so I won't go there. I switched on NFSv3 support within Windows, no difference. BUT If I put the proxy back, do the mount as described and use the /NOADF switch, I get the RMS-E-PRV error almost immediately. If I exclude the switch, it waits then times out. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:31:43 +0100 From: "Gorazd Kikelj" Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: "Gremlin" wrote in message news:13ptb14e8nvvr86@corp.supernews.com... > $ tcpip mou dnfs1: /host="x.y.z"/path="/nfsdata"/struc=5 > %TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-S-MOUNTED, /nfsdata mounted on _DNFS1:[000000] You are missing /NOADF in mount command hence timeout in next IO access. > $ dir dnfs1:[000000] > %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DNFS1:[000000]*.*;* as input > -RMS-E-DNF, directory not found > -SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeout > $ tcpip dism/all > %TCPIP$DNFSDISMOUNT-S-DISMOUNTED, _DNFS1:[000000] dismounted As I propose, please try to gather some trace data with wireshark or tcpdump and look, what UID/GID is in the packets. Also you can try with TCPIP$EXAMPLES:TCPIP$PROXY_RELOAD.COM to reload proxies on VMS side. Best, Gorazd ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 17:26:01 +1100 From: Gremlin Subject: Re: HELP: VMS as an NFS client to Windows or Linux - primer please Message-ID: <13pthnprmlvv998@corp.supernews.com> Gorazd Kikelj wrote: > "Gremlin" wrote in message > news:13ptb14e8nvvr86@corp.supernews.com... >> $ tcpip mou dnfs1: /host="x.y.z"/path="/nfsdata"/struc=5 >> %TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-S-MOUNTED, /nfsdata mounted on _DNFS1:[000000] > > You are missing /NOADF in mount command hence timeout in next IO access. > > >> $ dir dnfs1:[000000] >> %DIRECT-E-OPENIN, error opening DNFS1:[000000]*.*;* as input >> -RMS-E-DNF, directory not found >> -SYSTEM-F-TIMEOUT, device timeout >> $ tcpip dism/all >> %TCPIP$DNFSDISMOUNT-S-DISMOUNTED, _DNFS1:[000000] dismounted > > > As I propose, please try to gather some trace data with wireshark or tcpdump > and look, > what UID/GID is in the packets. > > Also you can try with TCPIP$EXAMPLES:TCPIP$PROXY_RELOAD.COM to reload > proxies on VMS side. > > Best, Gorazd > > OK, lots of stuff.... 192.168.100.205 is VMS client, 192.168.100.6 is NFS server So, after mounting OK (with UID 1001 and GID 100) and with /NOADF flag, wireshark shows this.... 258 8.704398 192.168.100.205 192.168.100.6 NFS V2 READDIR Call, FH:0x108ffdeb (showing UID 1001, GID 100) 263 8.722681 192.168.100.6 192.168.100.205 NFS V2 READDIR Reply (Call In 258) Error:NFSERR_ACCES (Ooops!!) From the RFC: NFSERR_ACCES Permission denied. The caller does not have the correct permission to perform the requested operation. So, VMS seems to pass the correct UID/GID - Windows rejects it.... Here is the hex of the read request (specifically the credentials)... 0000000100000020479ec7970000000567616d6d61000000000003e9000000640000000100000064 Here is the hex of the read request (specifically the NFS READDIR request)... 1d000000000001001d0000000000010044c527fd520300000245fb3d040c31a40000000000002000 Here is the hex of the reject component... 3f2adb390000000100000000000000000000000000000000 So, Windows is set up to allow anonymous access which is also set (by default) to a UID/GID of -2,-2 - when I issue the mount command with either /UID="-2"/GID="-2" or /UID=-2/GID=-2, windows returns: 147 7.459808 192.168.100.6 192.168.100.205 MOUNT V1 UMNT Reply (Call In 146)[Malformed Packet] So, no forcing VMS to use the anonymous UID/GID. What seems to be left is that VMS is passing the correct UID/GID information, but the windows mapping (which is just my windows username to my VMS username with a UID of 1001 and my windows group to my VMS froup with a GID of 100 is not correctly interpreted. Something else is missing.....certainly VMS anonymous access won't happen! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:49:22 -0800 (PST) From: "tomarsin2015@comcast.net" Subject: Looking for a DECserver 200/MC/ or 300 Message-ID: <48072fe0-b8ca-4517-90c8-491429780a21@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Hello Was wondering if anybody has a 200/MC or 300 laying around that they are not using and really dont want to send the item(s) to the trash. tks phil p.s. trying to stay away from e-smell (ebay), and this is for personal use. ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 2008 16:34:29 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: M$IE; was: DSPP Integrity remanufactured h/w... Message-ID: In article <5vuc53F1otlrsU4@mid.individual.net>, billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > > You mean like Apple did when they came out with OSX? > OS X didn't break anything I had. I still rely on a collection of classic applications. But I haven't needed a new Mac since they ported to Intel, where they don't support classic. ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 2008 16:37:35 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: M$IE; was: DSPP Integrity remanufactured h/w... Message-ID: In article , Keith Parris writes: > > I haven't heard of an "Office Vista" version -- you are probably > receiving documents from Office 2007. There's a free compatability pack > from Microsoft to allow earlier versions of Office to read the new > document formats: > http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/products/HA101686761033.aspx OK, maybe Office 2007 is it's real name. But the Microsoft compatability pack only runs on top of the previous MS Office, which we don't have. > Or you could install OpenOffice from http://OpenOffice.org/ We have OpenOffice, it can't handle the new file formats. Those are planned for release 3.0, which is not out. There are workarounds for .docx files, you can find them via Google, but I've not seen aything for the other new Office formats. ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 2008 16:38:20 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: M$IE; was: DSPP Integrity remanufactured h/w... Message-ID: In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > > Sending them as PDF would make them more *universally* "compatable". (sic) We can't even get the kiddies to send them as .doc, which the new MS Office can do. ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 2008 16:49:40 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: M$IE; was: DSPP Integrity remanufactured h/w... Message-ID: In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > Sending them as PDF would make them more *universally* "compatable". (sic) Providing you do not generate the form of PDF that is unreadable by Adobe Acrobat 4. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 01:32:41 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: M$IE; was: DSPP Integrity remanufactured h/w... Message-ID: In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: > > >In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > >> Sending them as PDF would make them more *universally* "compatable". (sic) > >Providing you do not generate the form of PDF that is unreadable >by Adobe Acrobat 4. I read PDF with Preview. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:41:41 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Subject: Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Message-ID: <297991bb-88e9-404a-a4ec-9790d2142b23@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Jan 27, 9:19=A0pm, JF Mezei wrote: > Suewrote: > > You know how much I care for you and for VMS. > > [font size=3D5000] Yes [/font] > > > We do have a roadmap which includes hardware and software > > futures. > > So did Alpha on 24-JUN-2001. > > Road maps change. Changes can be subtle, progressive or radical (as in > the case of Alpha). The attitude of the vendor towards a product is far > more indicative of the vendor's true commitment to that product. > > > Based on your request we had =A0Martin Fink on Customer call, > > I take it that from HP management's point of view, C.O.V. is the only > place where there are complaints about how HP is mishandling VMS ? > > I take it that people like Stallard and Livermore tell Hurd to dismiss > complaints sent to him as complaints from weirdos ? > > I take it upper managemenent are told that real VMS customers are > perfectly happy with the way HP is handling VMS ? > > > Do not flame me. > > Our hopes would be that you would act as a router to send the flames to > the right people within HP. None of the flames are aimed at you. I think > people genuinely love you and really appreciate your devotion to VMS. > > > Do not give me un realistic statments like > > advertising, its not going to happen. > > When you say "unrealistic", do you mean that it is not within your > powers to get advertising done, or that it is unrealistic to expect HP > to change their mind and start advertising VMS ? unrealistic - Advertising does not happen at the Business Unit. So Martin and Ann do not decide HP advertising, and (not positive about this) not even Scott may have input. So to keep asking the question is a lot like asking me why someone is not in the World Cup. You can ask, but its not going to help. Our hopes would be that you would act as a router to send the flames to > the right people within HP. None of the flames are aimed at you. I think > people genuinely love you and really appreciate your devotion to VMS Thank you very much for the kind words I only hope that I live up to them. Please do consider this. I do forward issues that have real examples with real names. I do not forward flames from people with no names and no real email address that have not purchased anything. I would look like a lunatic and I am already viewed as a little off center (ok way off center) when it comes to the VMS Customers. I really do not need any help. =46rom what I can tell everyone wants to help, but they need details. For example, if you have a services issue. I need the log number and the date and time and if possible who you spoke to. DO NOT POST this information Sue ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:47:42 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Message-ID: <479e86ee$0$22065$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Sue wrote: > unrealistic - Advertising does not happen at the Business Unit. So > Martin and Ann do not decide HP advertising, and (not positive about > this) not even Scott may have input. Sue, lets say the above came from someone higher up in HP and the Wall Street journal were to quote the above in a business story that came to the conclusion that HP was not interested in growing its proprietary BCS products (aka anything based on that IA64 contraption). How would Hurd react to it ? How would all the BCS customers react to it ? What you are saying confirms that the refusal to allow VMS to grow comes from very high up within HP. Now, consider what IBM has done with regards to open sourcing. It wanted to leverage the PR value of donating certain technologies which gave IBM a instant image of being player in the open source community. Sun followed with open sourcing SOlaris. If HP has no intentions to grow its proprietary systems, it should do the same as IBM and start donating a lot of stuff to open source community and allow HP to gain credibility in the linux world. > examples with real names. I do not forward flames from people with no > names and no real email address that have not purchased anything. A company should be more concerned about why it loses customers than why it keeps them. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:22:55 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Subject: Re: Open sourcing of VMS: bad precedent set Message-ID: On Jan 28, 8:47=A0pm, JF Mezei wrote: > Suewrote: > > unrealistic - Advertising does not happen at the Business Unit. =A0So > > Martin and Ann do not decide HP advertising, and (not positive about > > this) not even Scott may have input. > > Sue, lets say the above came from someone higher up in HP and the Wall > Street journal were to quote the above in a business story that came to > the conclusion that HP was not interested in growing its proprietary BCS > products (aka anything based on that IA64 contraption). > > How would Hurd react to it ? How would all the BCS customers react to it ?= > > What you are saying confirms that the refusal to allow VMS to grow comes > from very high up within HP. > > Now, consider what IBM has done with regards to open sourcing. It wanted > to leverage the PR value of donating certain technologies which gave IBM > a =A0instant image of being =A0player in the open source community. =A0Sun= > followed with open sourcing SOlaris. > > If HP has no intentions to grow its proprietary systems, it should do > the same as IBM and start donating a lot of stuff to open source > community and allow HP to gain credibility in the linux world. > > > examples with real names. =A0I do not forward flames from people with no= > > names and no real email address that have not purchased anything. > > A company should be more concerned about why it loses customers than why > it keeps them. You are reading way more into this than I intended. Advertising comes from the Advertising group we are an engineering group. If you want changes to VMS let us know and we will do our best to do it. I am not nor never have claimed to be a great marketing person (though I do know a few) and I know zero in Advertising. And I can tell you for a fact the advertising people are not in our group. I do not know what the corp folks think since I can not read their minds. I do know that folks have been trying to bury us for year and we still have a long term road map. Every indication we have is support from HP and I can say that after 3 companies. It is up to folks if they belive it or not. That said there is still a flat earth society. sue ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:35:27 +0100 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Using disk space on NAS? Message-ID: In article , healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > Well I don't have an NFS server on Linux or Windows, however, I've had no > problems connecting to OpenBSD or FreeBSD. > > TCPIP> mount dnfs1: data1 /path="/mnt/data.1" /host="nas02" /system > %TCPIP$DNFSMOUNT-S-MOUNTED, /mnt/data.1 mounted on _DNFS1:[000000] > > On the other hand, I think I found a bug in the LD Driver, I was able to > accidentally type the wrong command and unmount the NFS volume out from > under a logical disk which has LDA1: in an unusable state. > > An additional problem is that it looks like there might be a 1 or 2GB file > limit in there somewhere. I'm still doing testing. So I'm not sure quite > what is going wrong here. It is either with NFS, or the LD Driver. I have VMS successfully connected to an OS X NFS share of 8.95 GB, and the only problem I have seen with it was when I was trying to create too many LD disks within a short space of time - doing it slowly worked fine (too many LD CREATE commands issued quickly caused VMS to run out of nonpaged pool quite spectactularly, requiring a reboot). -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:43:40 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Using disk space on NAS? Message-ID: <479E3E7C.3020402@comcast.net> Robert Hubbard wrote: > I've seen commodity external disk drives that connect to the host PC > using the LAN. > Out of curiosity, what network protocol do these generally use? > NetBIOS, iSCSI or > something like Z-SAN? Or is it pretty much the case that none > dominate there, > different manufacturers use different protocols? At least some of > them seem to be > largely plug-and-play. Not that I expect VMS to be able to ever use > them. I believe my speaks both FTP and Samba. ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 2008 17:00:30 -0600 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Using disk space on NAS? Message-ID: In article <13pm8f1hb8tnfc8@corp.supernews.com>, Gremlin writes: > Hi Zane > > JF has had (some) success using VMS as an NFS server for connecting his > Mac to it. I believe that others may have connected a VMS client to an > NFS share. > > However, for more than 2 years I have *not* been able to connect a VMS > client (up to v8.2) to an NFS share served by Linux (Ubuntu, RedHat and > SuSE) or Windows Server (2000, 2003 and 2003R2). This group and ITRC > can't provide assistance and the ITRC thread(s) about this have many > people with the same problem but noone with a solution. > Well, if its that much trouble, why not just install DECnet for Linux? Worked fine the last time my kids tried it. ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 2008 23:55:37 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com Subject: Re: Using disk space on NAS? Message-ID: Jur van der Burg <"lddriver at digiater dot nl"> wrote: > until you disconnect the ld device. And you CAN disconnect it if you're in > such a situation by adding /ABORT to the LD DISCONNECT command. This will > clear things up. That did the trick. Thanks! Zane ------------------------------ Date: 29 Jan 2008 01:04:15 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com Subject: Re: Using disk space on NAS? Message-ID: Robert Hubbard wrote: > I've seen commodity external disk drives that connect to the host PC using > the LAN. Out of curiosity, what network protocol do these generally use? > NetBIOS, iSCSI or something like Z-SAN? Or is it pretty much the case > that none dominate there, different manufacturers use different protocols? > At least some of them seem to be largely plug-and-play. Not that I expect > VMS to be able to ever use them. It really depends on the manufacturer. Typically Samba, FTP, and maybe NFS I believe. They aren't something I want to trust my data to. I want user replaceable parts, that is why I'm looking to build my own NAS. VMS could probably use the ones that talk NFS. I was going to say I wouldn't expect to see consumer grade products supporting stuff like iSCSI or Z-SAN, but see that netgear offers something based on Z-SAN. Just what on earth does work with Z-SAN? I took a look at their website, and it looks to be an interesting alternative to iSCSI, but couldn't find any real information. Plus it appears that the Zetera website hasn't been updated since 2006. As I understand it, OpenVMS 8.4 should work with iSCSI, I really hope that is the case, but I need something now. I'm also not clear if the iSCSI support will be somehow limited to talking to HP devices. Apparently the "Early Adopters Kit" for Itanium can only be used to talk to one model of HP storage gear. Zane ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:04:59 -0500 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: VT100 standards Message-ID: None of this was secret. It was published in documentation - at least on the VWS terminal emulator. If you google, you can probably find something in an old cov archive. My documentation is currently buried in my closet and I am not really feeling up to trying to locate it. "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:47769bea$0$15743$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com... > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > >> can't come up with a reference. I can recall doing things to DECTerm >> titles with escape sequences from DCL. Unfortunately or, perhaps, not, >> the code does not seem to have survived. > > The DECterm window titles is fairly easy: > > ]21;Window Title\ > ]2L;Window Icon\ > > the first one is a twenty one, not two eye. > > I learned this right here on c.o.v a couple years ago. From an > authoritative person, not from authoritative documentation > > There is also some information around on the mouse support for VT > operations. It would be a real shame if all this went away as employees > leave VMS before its documentation is made "open source". ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:06:05 -0500 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: VT100 standards Message-ID: "AEF" wrote in message news:185ce25e-c6dc-4efd-83f0-9f3f45964819@w38g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... On Dec 29, 2:10 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > > can't come up with a reference. I can recall doing things to DECTerm > > titles with escape sequences from DCL. Unfortunately or, perhaps, not, > > the code does not seem to have survived. > > The DECterm window titles is fairly easy: > > ]21;Window Title\ > ]2L;Window Icon\ > > the first one is a twenty one, not two eye. > > I learned this right here on c.o.v a couple years ago. From an > authoritative person, not from authoritative documentation > > There is also some information around on the mouse support for VT > operations. It would be a real shame if all this went away as employees > leave VMS before its documentation is made "open source". Well, if Microsoft can be forced to share its code, why not HP for this? Eh? The escape sequences are hardly secret. What code is it you want shared? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:16:29 -0500 From: "Ken Robinson" Subject: Re: VT100 standards Message-ID: <7dd80f60801281116mc7cf589p6ba88bf86eb98554@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 28, 2008 2:04 PM, FredK wrote: > None of this was secret. It was published in documentation - at least on > the VWS terminal emulator. If you google, you can probably find something > in an old cov archive. My documentation is currently buried in my closet > and I am not really feeling up to trying to locate it. There is a wealth of information pertaining the to the VT100 family of terminals at VT100.net . Ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:36:09 -0500 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: VT100 standards Message-ID: The DEC terminal standards (DEC STD 138 if I remember correctly) was a thick manual that defined ANSI standard and DEC private extensions. Aside from a handful of hardcopys, it's not clear to me that it has survived. So now documentation is pretty much the individual product programmers guides and random stuff on the web. My hardcopy is buried in a box in my closet. "Ken Robinson" wrote in message news:7dd80f60801281116mc7cf589p6ba88bf86eb98554@mail.gmail.com... > On Jan 28, 2008 2:04 PM, FredK wrote: >> None of this was secret. It was published in documentation - at least on >> the VWS terminal emulator. If you google, you can probably find >> something >> in an old cov archive. My documentation is currently buried in my closet >> and I am not really feeling up to trying to locate it. > > There is a wealth of information pertaining the to the VT100 family of > terminals at VT100.net . > > Ken ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.057 ************************