INFO-VAX Thu, 03 Jan 2008 Volume 2008 : Issue 6 Contents: Re: Automatically starting a decterm window when remote workstation starts start Re: Automatically starting a decterm window when remote workstation starts start Re: Automatically starting a decterm window when remote workstation starts Re: Help identifying a cable Re: I64 VMS 8.3/DECwindows 1.6 problem with DECW$SERVER_0 processing crashing Re: Island Computers is moving Re: looking for blue |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo Re: looking for blue |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo RE: Looking for older Fortran manuals Re: OT: The penultimate legal schmuckery of 2007. Re: OT: The penultimate legal schmuckery of 2007. Re: Question about INSTALLing shared images Re: Unsupported three-architecture cluster upgrading from 7.3-2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 02:29:16 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Automatically starting a decterm window when remote workstation starts start Message-ID: <3d26177b-37e3-4204-a8d8-b93229b3b031@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com> On Jan 3, 1:49 am, JF Mezei wrote: > Any suggestions on the best way to do the equivalent of: > > SET DISPLAY/NODE=xxx/transport=TCPIP > CREATE/TERMINAL/DETACHED/NOLOGGED > > Automatically whenever a workstation becomes available ? > > I am thinking along the lines of a detached process that attempts to > ping the workstation at regular intervals and when the workstation > appears, it does the CREATE/TERM command (is there a callable interface > for this ? or the only way to create a DCL process to execute the command ?) > > The question becomes: how do you detect if that decterm has been > terminated (at which point, you start to poll the workstation again > until it becomes responsive). > > Or should I focus on doing this from the MAC's side, adding whatever > command are needed in its boot scripts to "tell" the VMS box to create > the detached process ? (RSH or whatever). > > What I like about the "ping until there is a response" is that the mac > would not have to authenticate itself against the VMS machine to cause > the create/term/nologger command to execute and I would then login > normally to any account I would want. If I use the RSH mechanisms, it > means that the mac needs to authenticate itself to the VMS box and I > suspect this would be a security issue of keeping VMS passwords on a > MAC, right ? JF, Use XDMCP to initiate a X-Windows session from the MAC side. You can use the "throw the session to the workstation" solution, but on recent versions of OpenVMS TCP/IP, there is support for the XDMCP protocol. What version of TCP/IP is running? - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:02:56 -0800 (PST) From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Automatically starting a decterm window when remote workstation starts start Message-ID: On 3 Jan, 11:54, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote: > From: JF Mezei > > > Or should I focus on doing this from the MAC's side, adding whatever > > command are needed in its boot scripts to "tell" the VMS box to create > > the detached process ? (RSH or whatever). > > =A0 =A0As usual, I'll assume that by "MAC", you mean "Mac", as in > "Macintosh", not "Media Access Control". > > =A0 =A0 =A0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh > =A0 =A0 =A0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Access_Control > > (Are you impervious to this datum?) > He was to 8086 =3D/=3D IA32 and 8086 =3D/=3D EM64T so why should it be any different this time around? Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 05:54:14 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Automatically starting a decterm window when remote workstation starts Message-ID: <08010305541458_206002CA@antinode.org> From: JF Mezei > Or should I focus on doing this from the MAC's side, adding whatever > command are needed in its boot scripts to "tell" the VMS box to create > the detached process ? (RSH or whatever). As usual, I'll assume that by "MAC", you mean "Mac", as in "Macintosh", not "Media Access Control". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Access_Control (Are you impervious to this datum?) > What I like about the "ping until there is a response" is that the mac Not a major improvement. > would not have to authenticate itself against the VMS machine to cause > the create/term/nologger command to execute and I would then login > normally to any account I would want. If I use the RSH mechanisms, it > means that the mac needs to authenticate itself to the VMS box and I > suspect this would be a security issue of keeping VMS passwords on a > MAC, right ? tcpip help add proxy [...] o Communication proxy - Provides an identity for users of RSH, RLOGIN, REXEC, RMT/RCD, LPR/LPD, and customer-written services, if these services are marked with SET SERVICE /FLAGS=APPLICATION_PROXY. [...] Think "~/.rhosts", but the system manager needs to do the work. With SSH, you'd need to keep a (no-passphrase) private key file there, but not a plain-text password. Ping is a possibly necessary but definitely not sufficient condition for RSH or SSH success. During system start-up, for example, ping will begin working before an RSH or SSH connection becomes possible (if it ever does). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 09:00:27 -0500 From: "Stanley F. Quayle" Subject: Re: Help identifying a cable Message-ID: <477CA42B.27196.16B15B8E@infovax.stanq.com> On 3 Jan 2008 at 5:54, Tad Winters wrote: > http://mysite.verizon.net/stafford.winters2/Unknown-Clear-Signal-cable.html That's definitely a V.35 plug on one end. This might have been used for X.25 (I used to support a site using these). The black connector probably plugged into a header on some specific card. --Stan Quayle Quayle Consulting Inc. ---------- Stanley F. Quayle, P.E. N8SQ Toll free: 1-888-I-LUV-VAX 8572 North Spring Ct., Pickerington, OH 43147 USA stan-at-stanq-dot-com http://www.stanq.com/charon-vax.html "OpenVMS, when downtime is not an option" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:15:46 -0500 From: "FredK" Subject: Re: I64 VMS 8.3/DECwindows 1.6 problem with DECW$SERVER_0 processing crashing Message-ID: "mjjerabek" wrote in message news:1503a949-aa96-4fbd-9ceb-c277361f5d06@i7g2000prf.googlegroups.com... > The last time we had a DECwindows problem, posting it here help as > much as calling HP technical support, so here the scoop ... > I suggest the call to support. We can't fix things that we don't know about. Now to answer some misconceptions... Logging out of a session resets the server, but it does not restart the process. The most common cause of server page count growth is pixmaps that are created and never deleted. In addition, it is possible to fragment heap space because alloc/free does not do garbage collection. The X11 server code source is identical between Alpha and IPF. But it is possible you don't see the issue on Alpha because IPF uses more memory - and you are stablizing on Alpha before you hit a quota limit. It is also possible that the memory footprint of the device specific layer is different if the graphics adapters are not identical - the Radeon server will use a lot more memory that a VX1 or TGA2 for example. Or it is possible there is a memory leak in the XServer (to be honest, I know that the code leaks like a sieve - the MIT folks were terrible at cleaning up memory). The first thing to do is to increase pagefile quota in the server. The temporary workaround is to periodically restart the server instead of ending the session and logging back in (@SYS$MANAGER:DECW$STARTUP RESTART) There is (or should be) a graphics update patch for V8.3 I64 that you should apply, since it fixes many problems. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 11:15:00 -0600 From: "Craig A. Berry" Subject: Re: Island Computers is moving Message-ID: In article , David Turner wrote: > If anyone would like to try and get into the site (no malicous entry > please) I would appreciate your inputs The hpaq.net and islandco.com pages appear to be working ok. However, clicking on any individual item fails when attempting to access icusc.com pages -- those just time out. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 04:58:12 -0800 (PST) From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: looking for blue |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo Message-ID: On 16 Dec 2007, 03:10, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote: > kaplo...@encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes: > >I'm looking for a nice graphic of the old blue (or older) |d|i|g|i|t|a|l|= > >logo. Preferable something drawn with graphic software rather than > >photographed or scanned. All I've been able to find is the later red one,= > >like this:http://www.vaxination.ca/vms/alpha/digital_556.jpg > > Anyone running an old (pre-1993, maybe later) version of VMS w/DECwindows > has the blue |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo on their system. =A0The one that display= s > on the screen before you login. =A0I don't remember the file name other th= an > it doesn't have a normal (.gif/jpg/whatever) extension. Does anyone remember the name of the logo file for the VAX and Alpha versions of DW-Motif? I know it's been posted here before as I used that posting to be able to change the logo on my v7.3 login screen. Now that I'm looking an 8.3 upgrade in the eye for home (once I've sorted out my Perl issues) I'd like to put the digital logo back in place. Ta muchly! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 12:06:17 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: looking for blue |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo Message-ID: <477d167a$0$22075$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > On 16 Dec 2007, 03:10, moro...@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael > Moroney) wrote: >> kaplo...@encompasserve.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes: >> >I'm looking for a nice graphic of the old blue (or older) |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| >> >logo. Preferable something drawn with graphic software rather than >> >photographed or scanned. All I've been able to find is the later red one, >> >like this:http://www.vaxination.ca/vms/alpha/digital_556.jpg >> >> Anyone running an old (pre-1993, maybe later) version of VMS w/DECwindows >> has the blue |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo on their system. The one that displays >> on the screen before you login. I don't remember the file name other than >> it doesn't have a normal (.gif/jpg/whatever) extension. > > Does anyone remember the name of the logo file for the VAX and Alpha > versions of DW-Motif? > > I know it's been posted here before as I used that posting to be able > to change the logo on my v7.3 login screen. Now that I'm looking an > 8.3 upgrade in the eye for home (once I've sorted out my Perl issues) > I'd like to put the digital logo back in place. > > Ta muchly! > Steve http://www.hp.com/go/vms and then choose the FAQ or: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/faq/vmsfaq.txt On page 11-9 there is a description of how to customize the login logo. for Alpha: ## The login logo is stored as an XPM bitmap image in the text file SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSCOMMON.CDE$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM.APPCONFIG.ICONS.C]DECDTLOGO.PM, and it can be changed. Copy the file to SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSCOMMON.CDE$DEFAULTS.USER.APPCONFIG.ICONS.C]DECDTLOGO.PM, as DECwindows upgrades can replace the system version of this file. For VAX, you need to write a command procedure to get it done (it is discussed briefly in that section of the FAQ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:33:06 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Looking for older Fortran manuals Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: gerry77@no.spam.mail.com [mailto:gerry77@no.spam.mail.com] > Sent: January 3, 2008 1:53 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Looking for older Fortran manuals > > On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 09:10:15 -0800 (PST), Volker Halle > wrote: > > > you can find old documentation at: > > > > http://www.sysworks.com.au/odl.html > > I knew them because they appear quite often searching with Google, but > I > didn't think to look at their site for specific information because I > was > looking for PDF manuals, anyway they have something very useful about > Fortran > so I'll stick with them until I'll find something in PDF. > > Thank you for this suggestion, > G. Not specific to Fortran, but archived OpenVMS doc's that include VAX to Alpha type doc's are at: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/archived.html Btw, the concepts and strategies in "Building Dependable Systems - The OpenVMS Approach" is still as valid today as it was many years ago. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 06:01:46 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: OT: The penultimate legal schmuckery of 2007. Message-ID: On Jan 2, 6:33 am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > In article <477AC30E.C02C3...@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera > > writes: > > VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > > > This group of scum never ceases to amaze me... > > > >http://tmesis.com/r_scum [...] > > "I believe in supporting the musicians, but most of the money goes to > the record company." Depends on the contract, but probably true. On > the other hand, no-one is FORCED to sign a record deal, and these days > any band who wants to distribute their own music electronically, for > free or for pay, rather than signing with a label, is free to do so. > However, most don't. Presumably, this is because what the record > company offers is worth it to them. This is a little too much like saying, "No one is FORCED to eat, pay rent, get a job, etc." So I don't buy this argument. A friend of mine once had some of his expensive stereo equipment fried by a surge from the electric company. He asked the electric company to pay damages but they refused. One could say: "You don't HAVE to buy electricity from them". You see the point? [...] AEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 18:03:52 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: OT: The penultimate legal schmuckery of 2007. Message-ID: In article , AEF writes: > On Jan 2, 6:33 am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- > remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > > In article <477AC30E.C02C3...@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera > > > > writes: > > > VAXman-, @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > > > > > This group of scum never ceases to amaze me... > > > > > >http://tmesis.com/r_scum > [...] > > > > "I believe in supporting the musicians, but most of the money goes to > > the record company." Depends on the contract, but probably true. On > > the other hand, no-one is FORCED to sign a record deal, and these days > > any band who wants to distribute their own music electronically, for > > free or for pay, rather than signing with a label, is free to do so. > > However, most don't. Presumably, this is because what the record > > company offers is worth it to them. > > This is a little too much like saying, "No one is FORCED to eat, pay > rent, get a job, etc." So I don't buy this argument. A friend of mine > once had some of his expensive stereo equipment fried by a surge from > the electric company. He asked the electric company to pay damages but > they refused. One could say: "You don't HAVE to buy electricity from > them". You see the point? Not really. In practice, one usually doesn't have a choice which electric company to buy electricity from. Also, I would say that, these days, electricity is a "basic need" while that is not true of a record contract. My point was that, in contrast to even 10 years ago, anyone who wants to distribute his recordings via the internet can do so, without a record company. If all record companies don't have anything but unfair contracts on offer, surely this means there is a market for a better record company? Will the big boys send over their axe-men if I set one up? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 05:56:18 -0800 (PST) From: AEF Subject: Re: Question about INSTALLing shared images Message-ID: <38d3dc88-d676-4ef8-a3d2-56b513af2316@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com> On Jan 2, 9:44 pm, D Gillbilly wrote: > On 2 Jan 2008 07:53:53 -0600, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > > Koehler) wrote: > >In article , AEF writes: > > >> When you INSTALL an executable as a shared image, can it be any > >> executable? I once discussed this with my developer for a program run > >> by multiple traders and he said we'd have to check for traders > >> stepping on each other, so to speak. So my question is: Doesn't VMS > >> automatically provide each process running shared executable its own > >> private data area in memory or does the program have to be explicitly > >> written with the assumption that it will be installed shared? > > > Each image is broken up into program sections (PSECTs). PSECTs can > > be read only, writeable, shareable, ... > > > You need to look at the LINK map > > I once installed an image with one psect incorrectly marked as SHR. > Oops. > > Duane > > > and verify that you don't have any > > PSECTs that are both writeable and shareable. If that's true you > > can install /shared and you will use less physical RAM. If that's > > not then you can re-LINK the image using a linker options file to > > change the PSECT characteristics. > > > The older Fortran compilers for VAXen made all the COMMON blocks > > shareable and writeable. Current Fortran compilers and other > > language compilers don't tend to do this. Many compilers have ways > > of specifying this in the source code, so you don't have to use > > linker options. Thanks every one for your answers. It looks like I better abort. My developer isn't going to be assigned time for this at this time. Thanks again! AEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 04:50:04 -0800 (PST) From: etmsreec@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: Unsupported three-architecture cluster Message-ID: <5a7de106-d316-4b3b-9803-964fb1966d93@21g2000hsj.googlegroups.com> On 31 Dec 2007, 22:12, Rich Jordan wrote: > On Dec 31, 1:28 pm, Bob Gezelter wrote: > > > > > > > On Dec 31, 1:18 pm, Rich Jordan wrote: > > > > First, thanks HP for not properly supporting this as you should have. > > > Makes the current situation just delightful. > > > > Customer has a two-node LAN based cluster, Alpha and VAX. =A0No shared= > > > storage, all disks are local to one or the other. =A0The Alpha is the > > > master node in voting and holds the authoritative SYSUAF, rightslist, > > > queue, etc shared files. =A0The VAX keeps a local copy to boot > > > standalone or if coming up first to the point of waiting to form a > > > cluster. > > > > They are adding an itanium. =A0They are not removing the VAX. =A0I kno= w > > > its not supported but I also know it has worked in testing. =A0Still L= AN > > > based, still no shared storage. > > > > The VAX is running the Process Software TCPware stack; the Alpha runs > > > the HP stack. =A0Currently the VAX is at VMS V7.3, the Alpha at V8.2, > > > and the Itanium at V8.2-1. =A0That is unlikely to change before summer= . > > > > I plan on keeping the Alpha as the 'master' node and keeper of the > > > shared files simply because of its excellent track record (actually > > > the old VAX has the best uptime but its pretty old/slow (3100-30). > > > Performance of the Itanium may make us move to it down the road but I > > > want it to run for a while before making it top node. > > > > I've been refreshing on the cluster manual. =A0Since we already have a= > > > cluster most of the code needed to set up 'master' files and such is > > > in place, just needing tweaking for the new node. =A0I'm also working > > > out the PQL parameters for each node. > > > > Given the huge difference in account quota recommendations between the= > > > three architectures, and the significant number of shared accounts > > > (user, system, tcpip, webserver, etc, most of which are shared between= > > > either two or three nodes) will they be best served by leaving the UAF= > > > account quotas at VAX levels and relying on the SYSGEN PQL settings > > > for the two newer nodes? =A0That would severely restrict the ability t= o > > > customize account settings on the newer systems (not everyone on the > > > Alpha/itanium needs to run Java or Mozilla). > > > > VAX usage is critical but not a lot of it goes on. =A0PQL parameters > > > can't set MAX settings (which would be awfully useful in this > > > situation) but perhaps it would be better to use the Alpha as a > > > baseline for UAF quotas anyway. =A0The accounts that do need to run Ja= va > > > and Mozilla are not the ones generally used on the VAX (and we can > > > enforce that if need be) and baseline Alpha quotas do not need to be > > > overly large, so perhaps won't cause a problem for the VAX. =A0That at= > > > least gives us some leeway on the Alpha account quotas, though the > > > Itanium accounts will still end up one size fits all using PQL > > > parameters. > > > > Thoughts appreciated. =A0Thoughts about not putting all three > > > architectures up in the cluster noted but not helpful. > > > > Thanks > > > > Rich > > > Rich, > > > Using the PQL settings to set MINIMUM parameters is certainly useful, > > as is looking at whether it is safe to raise parameters such as > > CHANNELCNT on all of the systems. > > > For situations where accounts are used, consider the fact that while > > it is normal practice for there to be one Account Name PER UIC, this > > is by no means mandatory. Also note that quotas and related settings > > are by Account Name, not by UIC (Protection, on the other hand IS by > > UIC). > > > I would seriously take a look at using different account Names on the > > different nodes for the situations are different. I would consider > > creating a separate (for efficiency reasons) logical name table, not > > in the normal search path, that would store this information. Then > > each reference need only include a reference to the logical name using > > F$TRNLNM. > > > Please let me know if I am not sufficiently clear. > > > - Bob Gezelter,http://www.rlgsc.com > > Bob, > =A0 =A0 I'm afraid the customer will insist on a single username across > the cluster. =A0They won't want to maintain multiple passwords in any > case which is why we're aiming at a single SYSUAF file. > > =A0 =A0 =A0Thanks for the input! > > Rich- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Why not consider a combination of the two - have the same usernames doing the initial login but, if the system is a VAX then use a proxy login using TCP/IP that magically switches to another VAX-specific username with lower quotas? that provides the best of both worlds. A similar approach could use a SET HOST 0 though DECnet would need to prompt for a password on the VAX-specific login. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 18:11:22 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: upgrading from 7.3-2 Message-ID: After some distractions, I hope I will find time soon to upgrade from 7.3-2. What version do folks recommend I upgrade to? Can I get there directly from 7.3-2? I have no Itanium yet, but do have VAX at 7.3. Any news of a newer VMS for VAX? What will stop working after the upgrade (MONITOR?)? What version of TCPIP for ALPHA should I aim for after the VMS upgrade? ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2008.006 ************************