INFO-VAX Sat, 22 Dec 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 699 Contents: Re: 20+ year old encrypted source code Re: 20+ year old encrypted source code Re: COBOL: get buffered IO from process id Re: COBOL: get buffered IO from process id Re: COBOL: get buffered IO from process id Command to move files Re: Command to move files Re: Command to move files Re: Command to move files Re: Command to move files Re: Command to move files Re: Command to move files Re: Command to move files Fw: COBOL: get buffered IO from process id Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Re: quick question Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols Re: WANTED: PDSDUMP information from VAX 780 (c1987) Re: X-windows: MAC server on VMS client ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:03:55 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: 20+ year old encrypted source code Message-ID: <476c3871$0$16159$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Keith Parris wrote: > Another compression option available around that timeframe was the DCX > compression utility routines available in OpenVMS. They used Huffman > encoding. See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83final/4493/4493pro_008.html There was also the LZW utility to compress stuff. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:45:19 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: 20+ year old encrypted source code Message-ID: <476C7A3F.D25E5C82@spam.comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > > Keith Parris wrote: > > > Another compression option available around that timeframe was the DCX > > compression utility routines available in OpenVMS. They used Huffman > > encoding. See http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83final/4493/4493pro_008.html > > There was also the LZW utility to compress stuff. ...and "ZOO", and I think there was a port of compress, ... David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:55:02 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: COBOL: get buffered IO from process id Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 0067E71F852573B8_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote on 12/21/2007 07:37:59 AM: > On Dec 21, 5:43 am, ythe...@gmail.com wrote: > > On 21 dec, 06:05, Hein RMS van den Heuvel > > > > "what problem are you really trying to solve?" > > > @ Hein: I need to rewrite an old program (due to loss of sources) that > > check the inactivity of users in a time frame... > > Ah, understood. Sort of. > > Inactivity detectors are those sophisticated programs which > - lull management into a false sense of security, > - piss off end users, > - and increase the system activity in general by probing and waking up > processes which are sleeping just fine > - make some users create occasional false activity just to prevent > from being zapped, > - makes other users re-start stuff and re-open file and and re-load DB > buffers and then go wait again. > > I forgot under what circumstances they did any good other than keeping > programmers employed. I know of two credible reasons: > - per user licenses (for crappy software) Well, that's a bit strong. When they charge for simultaneous users, and you want to make sure the company president does get "Please, try again later." then Watcher is the answer. The s/w isn't crappy; it's vendor is "profitable." > - modem pools (who still uses a modem?) > > Anyway... > Odd language choice for such tool, but if all you have is a hammer,... > use it. > > Sounds like you would also get the imagenam and maybe CPU time. > So SYS$GETJPI could be easier for all than multiple LIB$GETJPI calls. > > Be sure to check out: > > OpenVMS Programming Concepts Manual > > E.7 COBOL Implementations > http://www.itec.suny.edu/scsys/vms/OVMSDOC073/V73/5841/5841pro_089. > html#4512_vms_types_cobol > > Example 20-6 System Service Call in COBOL > http://www.itec.suny.edu/scsys/vms/OVMSDOC073/V73/5841/5841pro_056. > html#cobol_call_lang_ex > > Hein > > > > > http://biophyrs.bp.dal.ca/OpenVMS/83final/5841/5841pro_059. > html#cobol_call_lang_ex > > One of the parameters > > to check is the bufferid IO-count... > > > > @ Jim: thanks for your fast reply... I'm gonna try your example... > - Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > --=_alternative 0067E71F852573B8_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



Hein RMS van den Heuvel <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com> wrote on 12/21/2007 07:37:59 AM:

> On Dec 21, 5:43 am, ythe...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On 21 dec, 06:05, Hein RMS van den Heuvel
>
> > > "what problem are you really trying to solve?"
>
> > @ Hein: I need to rewrite an old program (due to loss of sources) that
> > check the inactivity of users in a time frame...
>
> Ah, understood. Sort of.
>
> Inactivity detectors are those sophisticated programs which
> - lull management into a false sense of security,
> - piss off end users,
> - and increase the system activity in general by probing and waking up
> processes which are sleeping just fine
> - make some users create occasional false activity just to prevent
> from being zapped,
> - makes other users re-start stuff and re-open file and and re-load DB
> buffers and then go wait again.
>
> I forgot under what circumstances they did any good other than keeping
> programmers employed. I know of two credible reasons:
> - per user licenses (for crappy software)


Well, that's a bit strong.  When they charge for simultaneous users, and
you want to make sure the company president does get "Please, try again
later."  then Watcher is the answer.

The s/w isn't crappy; it's vendor is "profitable."

> - modem pools (who still uses a modem?)
>
> Anyway...
> Odd language choice for such tool, but if all you have is a hammer,...
> use it.
>
> Sounds like you would also get the imagenam and maybe CPU time.
> So SYS$GETJPI could be easier for all than multiple LIB$GETJPI calls.
>
> Be sure to check out:
>
> OpenVMS Programming Concepts Manual
>
> E.7 COBOL Implementations
> http://www.itec.suny.edu/scsys/vms/OVMSDOC073/V73/5841/5841pro_089.
> html#4512_vms_types_cobol
>
> Example 20-6 System Service Call in COBOL
> http://www.itec.suny.edu/scsys/vms/OVMSDOC073/V73/5841/5841pro_056.
> html#cobol_call_lang_ex
>
> Hein
>
>
>
>
> http://biophyrs.bp.dal.ca/OpenVMS/83final/5841/5841pro_059.
> html#cobol_call_lang_ex
>
>  One of the parameters
> > to check is the bufferid IO-count...
> >
> > @ Jim: thanks for your fast reply... I'm gonna try your example...
> - Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
--=_alternative 0067E71F852573B8_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:34:41 -0800 (PST) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: COBOL: get buffered IO from process id Message-ID: <4709a897-e7b6-4281-bf22-6f9c96dab40d@b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Dec 21, 1:55=A0pm, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote: > Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote on > > I know of two credible reasons: > > - per user licenses (for crappy software) > > Well, that's a bit strong. =A0When they charge for simultaneous users, and= > you want to make sure the company president does get "Please, try again > later." =A0then Watcher is the answer. > > The s/w isn't crappy; it's vendor is "profitable." Well, I did include it. Just with a comment. I do think it is crappy, lame, pointless, futile. Here is why: IF through a watcher of sorts one can bypass multiple usage rules then everyone loses and noone wins. Personally I strive for win-win situations, not lose-lose. - The vendor loses because they did not sell extra units - The current users loses because their sessions get zapped, to facilitate something they were not actively using (remember watcher triggers on idleness, ergo a proof is was NOT actively used) - The waiting user loses because they can not get access for the want of some watcher algoritme going through generic motions. - I guess the bean counters _think_ they win, saving tangible license fees versus the unmeasurable cost of loss of productiviy. But please do take my opinition in there matters with lost of grains of salt. I'm not good at rules (for rules sake) and I hate every single 'technology' solution for people problems. (virus scanners, airport security scans, non-echo passwords, ground protection circuits, disk quotas, ... :-) Best wishes to all, Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 21:55:29 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: COBOL: get buffered IO from process id Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00100DA7852573B9_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote on 12/21/2007 02:34:41 PM: > On Dec 21, 1:55 pm, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote: > > Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote on > > > I know of two credible reasons: > > > - per user licenses (for crappy software) > > > > Well, that's a bit strong. When they charge for simultaneous users, and > > you want to make sure the company president does get "Please, try again > > later." then Watcher is the answer. > > > > The s/w isn't crappy; it's vendor is "profitable." > > Well, I did include it. Just with a comment. > > I do think it is crappy, lame, pointless, futile. > Here is why: > > IF through a watcher of sorts one can bypass multiple usage rules then > everyone loses and noone wins. > Personally I strive for win-win situations, not lose-lose. > - The vendor loses because they did not sell extra units > - The current users loses because their sessions get zapped, > to facilitate something they were not actively using (remember watcher > triggers on idleness, ergo a proof is was NOT actively used) > - The waiting user loses because they can not get access for the want > of some watcher algoritme going through generic motions. > > - I guess the bean counters _think_ they win, saving tangible license > fees versus the unmeasurable cost of loss of productivity. Well, actually, AFAIK, we've never actually hit the user-limit, although I am not sure if we would have done without watcher. It's really a political solution. It costs a few cpu ticks, and it lets management think the situation is being managed (which it is). > > But please do take my opinition in there matters with lost of grains > of salt. > I'm not good at rules (for rules sake) and I hate every single > 'technology' solution for people problems. > (virus scanners, airport security scans, non-echo passwords, ground > protection circuits, disk quotas, ... :-) > > Best wishes to all, > Hein. --=_alternative 00100DA7852573B9_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"



Hein RMS van den Heuvel <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com> wrote on 12/21/2007 02:34:41 PM:

> On Dec 21, 1:55 pm, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote:
> > Hein RMS van den Heuvel <heinvandenheu...@gmail.com> wrote on
> > >  I know of two credible reasons:
> > > - per user licenses (for crappy software)
> >
> > Well, that's a bit strong.  When they charge for simultaneous users, and
> > you want to make sure the company president does get "Please, try again
> > later."  then Watcher is the answer.
> >
> > The s/w isn't crappy; it's vendor is "profitable."
>
> Well, I did include it. Just with a comment.
>
> I do think it is crappy, lame, pointless, futile.
> Here is why:
>
> IF through a watcher of sorts one can bypass multiple usage rules then
> everyone loses and noone wins.
> Personally I strive for win-win situations, not lose-lose.
> - The vendor loses because they did not sell extra units
> - The current users loses because their sessions get zapped,
> to facilitate something they were not actively using (remember watcher
> triggers on idleness, ergo a proof is was NOT actively used)
> - The waiting user loses because they can not get access for the want
> of some watcher algoritme going through generic motions.
>
> - I guess the bean counters _think_ they win, saving tangible license
> fees versus the unmeasurable cost of loss of productivity.

Well, actually, AFAIK, we've never actually hit the user-limit, although
I am not sure if we would have done without watcher.

It's really a political solution.  It costs a few cpu ticks, and it lets
management think the situation is being managed (which it is).

>
> But please do take my opinition in there matters with lost of grains
> of salt.
> I'm not good at rules (for rules sake) and I hate every single
> 'technology' solution for people problems.
> (virus scanners, airport security scans, non-echo passwords, ground
> protection circuits, disk quotas,  ... :-)
>
> Best wishes to all,
> Hein.
--=_alternative 00100DA7852573B9_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:49:35 -0800 (PST) From: apogeusistemas@gmail.com Subject: Command to move files Message-ID: Hi: Is there in VMS any command like "mv" in Unix ? I want move thousands of files, and I =B4d like use another command than the copy command.. Thank you... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:58:52 -0800 (PST) From: dooleys@snowy.net.au Subject: Re: Command to move files Message-ID: <41f97523-7df2-43d0-9e10-c6d3a39160b7@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Dec 22, 9:49=A0am, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > Hi: > Is there in VMS any command like "mv" in Unix ? > I want move thousands of files, and I =B4d like use another command > than the copy command.. > > Thank you... rename - as long as source and destination are on the same disk Phil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:01:07 -0500 From: "Ken Robinson" Subject: Re: Command to move files Message-ID: <7dd80f60712211501m26d40b23l5cdec06ef0116a55@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 21, 2007 5:49 PM, wrote: > Hi: > Is there in VMS any command like "mv" in Unix ? > I want move thousands of files, and I =B4d like use another command > than the copy command.. It depends on whether the files being moved are staying on the same disk or= not. If they are staying on the same disk and you want to move the entire directory from one location to another, you can just use the RENAME command to rename the directory: Example: $ rename/log disk1:[directory1]dir_to_be_moved.dir;1 disk1:[directory2]moved_directory.dir;1 If youi're moving between disks, you're best bet is to use the BACKUP command, which will preserve creation dates, directory structures, owner, ACLs, etc. $ backup/log disk1:[directory1...]*.*;* disk2:[*...]/own=3Dorig If you tell us what you really want to do, we can help you. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:18:04 -0800 (PST) From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel Subject: Re: Command to move files Message-ID: <2d815c0b-ee20-494a-ab95-4989c34d9e93@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Dec 21, 5:49=A0pm, apogeusiste...@gmail.com wrote: > Hi: > Is there in VMS any command like "mv" in Unix ? - Rename, like the others indicate when it is on the same disk - Backup/delete for general purpose. Hein. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:51:19 -0500 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Command to move files Message-ID: <476C5F87.5010902@comcast.net> apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote: > Hi: > Is there in VMS any command like "mv" in Unix ? > I want move thousands of files, and I īd like use another command > than the copy command.. > > Thank you... The VMS equivalent to "mv" is RENAME. Neither "mv" nor RENAME moves files. If what you want to do is to catalog a file in a different directory, you could try SET FILE /ENTER to create a directory entry in the desired directory and SET FILE /REMOVE to remove the original directory entry. Note that this may have strange effects on some BACKUP schemes. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:41:52 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Command to move files Message-ID: <476c6b8d$0$16241$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote: > Hi: > Is there in VMS any command like "mv" in Unix ? > I want move thousands of files, and I īd like use another command > than the copy command.. The RENAME command as described is your ticket when moving within the same disk. YOu should however note that in order to rename a directory (instead of individually renaming each file inside the directory), you will have to set its protection properly: SET FILE mydirectory.DIR/prot=(o:rwed) When you rename a file, it removes the entry from the parent directory (hence the need for the delete privilege), and creates a new entry in whatever directory you want. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:37:39 -0600 (CST) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Command to move files Message-ID: <07122119373898_202647DE@antinode.org> From: "Richard B. Gilbert" > [...] Neither "mv" nor RENAME moves files. [...] This is not universally true. See, for example: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-5165/6mbb0m9lf?a=view [...] If source and target_file/target_dir are on different file systems, mv copies the source and deletes the original. [...] It was a bit startling when I first observed this behavior, many years ago, but many things are possible, and life is filled with surprises. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:58:50 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Command to move files Message-ID: <476C7D6A.B902DA7F@spam.comcast.net> apogeusistemas@gmail.com wrote: > > Hi: > Is there in VMS any command like "mv" in Unix ? > I want move thousands of files, and I īd like use another command > than the copy command.. > > Thank you... See HELP RENAME, and note that files cannot be RENAMED across devices. The rough UN*X equivalent would be across filesystems. As SMS noted, when "mv"-ing files across filesystems, mv does a cp followed by an rm. In VMS-land, one would have to do that manually. The rough equivalent would be BACKUP/DELETE. See HELP BACKUP. David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 21:47:20 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Fw: COBOL: get buffered IO from process id Message-ID: This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 000F4E80852573B9_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Jan-Erik S=F6derholm wrote on 12/21/2007=20 > 08:11:27 AM: > > I need to rewrite an old program (due to loss of sources) > > that check the inactivity of users in a time frame... > > Don't do that. > > > Download WATCHER instead : I completely agree. > > http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?WATCHER > > or : > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/watcher/ > > Regards, > Jan-Erik. > --=_alternative 000F4E80852573B9_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> Jan-Erik S=F6derholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> wrote on 12/= 21/2007
> 08:11:27 AM:

> > I need to rewrite an old program (due to loss of sources)
> > that check the inactivity of users in a time frame...
>
> Don't do that.
>
> > Download WATCHER instead :

I completely agree.

>
> http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?WATCHER
>
> or :
>
> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/freeware/freeware80/watcher/
>
> Regards,
> Jan-Erik.
>
--=_alternative 000F4E80852573B9_=-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:50:09 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: OT: Merry Christmas to c.o.v. ! Message-ID: <476C7B61.45ED1D3@spam.comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > > Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all readers of c.o.v. (1) > > May this festive season bring you lots of snow (2), joy, happiness in > your family. > > May the next 12 months bring you success with your challenges and > endeavours. > > > Disclaimer: > > (1) If you are offended by the expression "Merry Christmas", then > substitute it with "Happy Holidays". If your culture's calendar doesn't > end on Dec 31, then disregard the "Happy New Year" expression. No > offense meant to anyone for whom those wishes may be derogatory. > > (2) For those in southern hemisphere, read "sun and fun at the beach" > instead of "snow". > > No animals were harmed in the making of the announcement. > > Any use of the word "man" or "mankind" is meant to apply equally to all > sexes. > > This message has a very low carbon footprint. Only one fart was produced > while typing it. > \ > If I knew the correct way to spell "Joyeux Noel", I'd post it. ...but... David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:47:54 -0600 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: quick question Message-ID: <476C7ADA.E961864B@spam.comcast.net> Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > > Michael Kraemer wrote: > >> The only other episode I can recall offhand in which this type of > >> thing happens is The Changeling (Nomad). The end of the show where > >> Kirk talks Nomad into self-destruction is absolutely brilliant. What > >> other episodes am I forgetting? There's Landru (Are you of the > >> body? :-) but I think they just used their phasers on it. > >> > >> AEF > > > > ISTR a similar episode where the computer was talked into > > the task of calculating PI up to the last digit ... > > It was kind of exorcism because some daemon had taken over the main computer. > > Wasn't there also an episode (Mudd's Women?) where they disabled > some female androids by feeding them a logical conundrum? That one is titled, "I, Mudd". After doing their shtick(sp?), Scotty and the Doctor curtsy as part of the gag. David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:06:27 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols Message-ID: <476c3908$0$16159$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> Main, Kerry wrote: > The PFIF is a U.S.-based nonprofit corporation. It will make Microsoft's server network protocol > documentation available to open-source developers such as Samba, which creates programs > for Windows Server interoperability, and private companies. This information is provided > under an NDA (nondisclosure agreement) and developers must agree to the NDA before > gaining access to the documentation." Humm, interesting twst to this. Can NDA and "open source" really function together ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:46:53 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols Message-ID: In article <476c3908$0$16159$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: > > >Main, Kerry wrote: >> The PFIF is a U.S.-based nonprofit corporation. It will make Microsoft's server network protocol >> documentation available to open-source developers such as Samba, which creates programs >> for Windows Server interoperability, and private companies. This information is provided >> under an NDA (nondisclosure agreement) and developers must agree to the NDA before >> gaining access to the documentation." > > >Humm, interesting twst to this. Can NDA and "open source" really >function together ? In the Micro$oft space, NDA stands for Nitwit Designed Algorithms; hence, they can certainly coexist in the open source space. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:11:15 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Samba Gains Legal Access to Microsoft Network File Protocols Message-ID: In article <476c3908$0$16159$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>, JF Mezei writes: >Main, Kerry wrote: >> The PFIF is a U.S.-based nonprofit corporation. It will make Microsoft's server network protocol >> documentation available to open-source developers such as Samba, which creates programs >> for Windows Server interoperability, and private companies. This information is provided >> under an NDA (nondisclosure agreement) and developers must agree to the NDA before >> gaining access to the documentation." > > >Humm, interesting twst to this. Can NDA and "open source" really >function together ? See http://samba.org/samba/PFIF/PFIF_agreement.html for Andrew Tridgell's comments on the Samba team's negotiations on this agreement. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:27:41 -0800 (PST) From: dooleys@snowy.net.au Subject: Re: WANTED: PDSDUMP information from VAX 780 (c1987) Message-ID: <82751080-ed88-4076-9b97-0a02a2f540e2@b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Dec 4, 11:31=A0am, Silver Bells wrote: > I have several large filesarchived using PDSDUMP. =A0 All of it from > 1987. > > I believe the PDSDUMP/PDSLOD programs were on the VAX -780 that > fronted our Cray-XMP. > > I would like to obtain working PSCDUMP translators that work on a PC > or Mac. > > But if translators are not available,I would need to know the method > of compression the PDSDUMP used. =A0I could write my own (I did that > for years at CDC in the 80's.) > > Thanks---- > > -Fred Bradford (Los Angeles) is this for ibm style "partitioned data sets" (similar to vms text libraries)? if so, it may be in "IEBUPDTE" format try this link http://www.jaymoseley.com/hercules/cbtware/pdsload.htm Phil ------------------------------ Date: 22 Dec 2007 01:12:40 GMT From: healyzh@aracnet.com Subject: Re: X-windows: MAC server on VMS client Message-ID: VAXman- wrote: > I gave up on the X11 Apple was shipping and purchased a third party's > X11 server for the Powerbook -- eXodus from http://powerlan-usa.com How well is that working, and what architecture/os release are you running it on? I am more than a little concerned about its long term viability. I must agree that Apple's X11 is more than a little pathetic at times, however, I don't believe eXodus has been updated since 2003 (about the time Apple released theirs). Zane ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.699 ************************