INFO-VAX Tue, 11 Dec 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 678 Contents: Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Compiling ANU-NEWS on Alpha? Re: Compiling ANU-NEWS on Alpha? DE500 failure, looking for advice Re: DE500 failure, looking for advice Re: DE500 failure, looking for advice Detecting Intruders on Your System Is Fun and Easy Re: Installation of DEGPA-TA on VMS 7.2-1 system Re: Installation of DEGPA-TA on VMS 7.2-1 system Re: One Laptop per Child Re: One Laptop per Child Re: OT: One Laptop per Child Re: Unix for VMS guys ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 00:14:13 -0800 (PST) From: Rob Subject: Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Message-ID: <6db9ef31-8aa6-47cb-8aba-a8577cee1d79@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> On Dec 11, 5:23 am, Uusim=E4ki wrote: > Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > > In article , hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de > > (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > > >> However, if I have to go back to this nightly snapshot backup, then I > >> have the choice betwwen a full shadow copy and living with one > >> shadow-set, member, neither of which is acceptable. > > > That should be: living with a one-member shadow set > > > I don't think there is a way to do this with VMS out of the box. > > However, it would be great to learn that there is. > > > What about low-level stuff to hack the SCB? > > Is it out of the question to use an intelligent disk array (or maybe > two) to produce a snapshot or clone or split mirror? > With that there would be several ways to do it. The con is of course > cost, which seems to be more important than data security in many > companies nowadays. > > Regards, > > Kari Phillip, it sounds like you're using a HSG or EVA array for your data already, as you use the term 'Snapshot'. If so, I don't understand why you don't use the array to create the copy for you? If you could let us know what hardware you have available, we can give you some choices. Rob. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:40:43 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Message-ID: In article <475e1e27$0$3216$9b536df3@news.fv.fi>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Uusim=E4ki?= writes: > Is it out of the question to use an intelligent disk array (or maybe > two) to produce a snapshot or clone or split mirror? > With that there would be several ways to do it. The con is of course > cost, which seems to be more important than data security in many > companies nowadays. Producing a snapshot backup in itself is not the problem. The goal is to produce one which can be updated via minicopy once a day (anything other than minicopy is too slow). Shadowing with 3 members will give me this, but then if I have to go back to the backup I've got a one-member shadow set. Anything which has to do a full copy would take too long. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:15:06 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Message-ID: <6c4c84da-0c8c-4976-a90f-393ac84f9fed@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Dec 11, 3:46 am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > In article > <6db9ef31-8aa6-47cb-8aba-a8577cee1...@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, Rob > > writes: > > Phillip, it sounds like you're using a HSG or EVA array for your data > > already, as you use the term 'Snapshot'. > > Don't read too much into that. The question is quite general and could > just as well apply to my hobbyist system with physical SCSI disks > connected to VAXstations. I just used the term "snapshot" to indicate > that I don't need a backup which is restorable to an arbitrary point in > time, but rather one which is restorable to a daily "snapshot". > > > If so, I don't understand why you don't use the array to create the > > copy for you? > > Let me phrase it another way. This is ALMOST what I want: Once a day, > mount a third member into the shadow set, let it get updated via > minicopy, then dismount it (at this special time, a clean dismount is > possible). That's my "snapshot". A day later, repeat. Since the > changes get updated via minicopy, it's fast enough. This is OK as far > as it goes, but it doesn't go far enough---because the snapshot backup > is just one disk. Yes, I could make a copy of that, but that would be a > full copy and would thus take too long. Also, depending on how I do it, > the next minicopy update might no longer work. Phillip, Perhaps my quick reading of this thread missed something, however, what about using a Mirror set (with multiple members on the storage array) as the third member of the shadow set? - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:55:25 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Message-ID: In article <6c4c84da-0c8c-4976-a90f-393ac84f9fed@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Bob Gezelter writes: > Perhaps my quick reading of this thread missed something, however, > what about using a Mirror set (with multiple members on the storage > array) as the third member of the shadow set? As long as there are just 3 members in the shadow set, I can't have two for the normal set AND 2 for the backup. Any non-HBVS way of mirroring would probably not allow a nightly update via minicopy. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:09:23 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: "snapshot" backup and HBVS Message-ID: <8387378c-5d86-438b-be06-6cecc06d7883@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Dec 11, 7:55 am, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > In article > <6c4c84da-0c8c-4976-a90f-393ac84f9...@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Bob > > Gezelter writes: > > Perhaps my quick reading of this thread missed something, however, > > what about using a Mirror set (with multiple members on the storage > > array) as the third member of the shadow set? > > As long as there are just 3 members in the shadow set, I can't have two > for the normal set AND 2 for the backup. Any non-HBVS way of mirroring > would probably not allow a nightly update via minicopy. Phillip, Going with one member was most definitely NOT what I was suggesting, perhaps an example would illustrate what I am referring to. Shadow Set (Host Based) consists of disks A and B. To make a backup, MIRROR Set C (drives D and E) on a storage array is joined to the shadow set. As the mirror [emphasis] set appears to be a single volume to the host, there are actually four drives in synch at the instant that C is disconnected from the Shadow set. Depending on the storage array, it may be possible to further replicate C onto additional volumes offline. When C is reconnected to the Shadow at the next backup point, C appears as a single volume. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:08:23 +0000 (UTC) From: gartmann@nonsense.immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) Subject: Compiling ANU-NEWS on Alpha? Message-ID: Hello, what is necessary to get ANU-NEWS compiled on an Alpha under OpenVMS 7.3-2 for Multinet? I assume it is best to compile it for TCPIP services and use Multinet's UCX emulation. But with NNTP_XMIT I get lots of "undefined" errors of the form "INET$something is not declared". Thus, has anybody succeeded in compiling this old software? Regards, Christoph Gartmann -- Max-Planck-Institut fuer Phone : +49-761-5108-464 Fax: -452 Immunbiologie Postfach 1169 Internet: gartmann@immunbio dot mpg dot de D-79011 Freiburg, Germany http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/menue.html ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 07 13:10:31 EST From: cook@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) Subject: Re: Compiling ANU-NEWS on Alpha? Message-ID: In article , gartmann@nonsense.immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes: > Hello, > > what is necessary to get ANU-NEWS compiled on an Alpha under OpenVMS 7.3-2 > for Multinet? I assume it is best to compile it for TCPIP services and use > Multinet's UCX emulation. But with NNTP_XMIT I get lots of "undefined" errors > of the form "INET$something is not declared". Thus, has anybody succeeded in > compiling this old software? I last built ANU-NEWS (V6.2.0) on Alpha with Multinet under VMS V7.1. Your best bet is to compile it directly against Multinet. That is what I did. The resulting image still works fine under OpenVMS V8.2 with Multinet V5.1. If you plan to use it against an NNTP server with a large number of groups (e.g. 18,000), you will need a patch which I can provide. George Cook WVNET ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 00:47:03 -0800 (PST) From: H Vlems Subject: DE500 failure, looking for advice Message-ID: <10accca1-34f8-4747-bed4-240a89e14028@e1g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> Good morning, yesterday I switched on my AlphaServer 800 5/500 and tried to set up an Xwindows session. It failed, and pinging the system didn't work either. The system was unreachable on all three protocols (DECnet phase V, IP and LAT). This system usually runs Tru64 V5.0A (it is my only unix box, ok) and I have no clue how its diagnostics work. Provided there are any other than ifconfig. Anyway, I swapped its disks and booted VMS which I understand a little better and runs DECnet phase IV. Conclusion: the DE500 is dead. I'm not sure whether it is the DE500-FA listed in the Systems&Options Guide, it may very well be a DE500-BA. I haven't opened the system yet, that'll have to wait until Wednesday. Two questions: - can I use a DE600 instead of a DE500? - if so, do I need to reinstall Tru64 (which I rather didn't since it's a royal pain? Thanks Hans ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:34:55 -0500 From: "Carl Friedberg" Subject: Re: DE500 failure, looking for advice Message-ID: <890539d90712110534p40bf24c7wa314eb143cb6f26f@mail.gmail.com> Hi Hans, > Two questions: > - can I use a DE600 instead of a DE500? I'd get a DE602; they run around USD 20 + shipping on EBay. > - if so, do I need to reinstall Tru64 (which I rather didn't since > it's a royal pain? For VMS, you will see the device letter change from EWA0 to EIA0 and EIB0. I haven't a clue about four-letter OS. You could also consider a Gigabit interface like a DEGXA. Carl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:41:09 -0500 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Re: DE500 failure, looking for advice Message-ID: <13ltfgvhqlfsu6d@news.supernews.com> I didn't think the DE600 worked on the AS800 We have the DE500-BA for $50 DT -- David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404 T: 877-6364332 x201 Intl: 001 912 447 6622 E: dturner@islandco.com F: 912 201 0402 W: http://www.islandco.com The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers. "Carl Friedberg" wrote in message news:890539d90712110534p40bf24c7wa314eb143cb6f26f@mail.gmail.com... > Hi Hans, > >> Two questions: >> - can I use a DE600 instead of a DE500? > > I'd get a DE602; they run around USD 20 + shipping on EBay. > > >> - if so, do I need to reinstall Tru64 (which I rather didn't since >> it's a royal pain? > > For VMS, you will see the device letter change from EWA0 to EIA0 > and EIB0. I haven't a clue about four-letter OS. > > You could also consider a Gigabit interface like a DEGXA. > > Carl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:01:58 -0800 (PST) From: lambretha.gastrula@gmail.com Subject: Detecting Intruders on Your System Is Fun and Easy Message-ID: Detecting Intruders on Your System Is Fun and Easy Well, perhaps the title of this chapter is a slightly misleading. Supposedly, becoming an intruder is fun and easy, too. If you want to detect intruders, you should know what type of system resources can be depended on for providing evidence. Should you want to become an intruder, you ought to know how commercial IDSs look for traces of your activity. Scanners are designed to take a look at your system and to let you know whether you have configuration problems or holes that can be used for attacks. If your system was previously set up in a secure fashion, and an intruder has altered this configuration, a scanner will detect this change (when you run the scan) and notify you of the problem. System-level intrusion detection tools differ from scanners in a couple of ways. If the IDS runs in real time, it can let you know the instant a compromise has occurred. Also, if the monitor gathers its data by reading an activity stream on the system, it can detect a range of features that a single scanner cannot. For example, scanners will not tell you that someone just entered three bad passwords and exceeded the failed login threshold. By the time you finish this chapter, you will understand the following: * How to classify attacks according to how they originate and the threat they pose * The pros and cons of different data sources that a system monitor can use for decisions * What system monitors can and cannot detect * The tradeoffs you may need to make for monitoring your systems in real time * What it takes to really track someone through a network As you will soon see, you need to consider a number of issues when trying to build a system-level IDS. You can see the complate articles at http://www.network.79br.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:16:54 -0800 (PST) From: Volker Halle Subject: Re: Installation of DEGPA-TA on VMS 7.2-1 system Message-ID: <7b067a79-84be-41f5-944d-ed710505db2d@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> David, a DEGPA-TA on V7.2-1 requires at least VMS721_LAN-V0300 (according to the AlphaServer supported options list) - TCPIP won't see the interface, if VMS doesn't see it. Volker. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:45:33 -0800 (PST) From: Ed Wilts Subject: Re: Installation of DEGPA-TA on VMS 7.2-1 system Message-ID: <225d27f0-0f24-4c4b-8984-192dcf3f2435@e1g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> On Dec 11, 10:44 am, "David Turner, Island Computers" wrote: > The problem my customer is having is that TCPIPCONFIG (?)does not see the > card - I think there is a patch download requirement. > He is running VMS 7.2-1 Yup - the installation doc says to install the latest LAN and/or UPDATE kit available. This contains SYS$EW1000A.EXE (the device driver), LANCP.EXE (the LAN management utility), and SYS$CONFIG.DAT (which includes an entry for the DEGPA-TA). It also says that if you installed the DEGPA before you installed the kit, then enter the following commands to configure the device without rebooting the system: $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:SYSMAN SYSMAN> IO REBUILD SYSMAN> IO AUTO/LOG SYSMAN> EXIT To determine which LAN device is the DEGPA, enter the following command: $ RUN SYS$SYSTEM:LANCP LANCP> SHOW DEVICE EW/CHARACTERISTICS LANCP> EXIT The device that has a line speed of 1000 megabits per second is the DEGPA. .../Ed Ed Wilts, RHCE, BCFP, BCSD Sr. IT Architect, Storage Services, Merrill Corporation mailto:ewilts@ewilts.org phone:651-632-1529 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:43:02 -0500 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Re: One Laptop per Child Message-ID: <13ltfkgjv4vqbe@news.supernews.com> I wonder how long it will be before we see stolen OLPC laptops on Ebay!?!? ;0| -- David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404 T: 877-6364332 x201 Intl: 001 912 447 6622 E: dturner@islandco.com F: 912 201 0402 W: http://www.islandco.com The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers. "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:d214$475a6b54$cef8887a$29487@TEKSAVVY.COM... > Right now, Linux is being used for the "One Laptop per Child" projects > around the world. > > Microsoft, not wanting to be left out, has setup a team of 40 people > trying to fit Windows and office on 1gig (they can't) so now they will > pay for flash cards and the hardware needed to be added on the cheap > laptops, and they still are having problems fitting the bloat that is > Windows onto those cards. And they will also need to update the laptop's > firmware to support booting from the additional flashcards. > > Just imagine if many years ago, VMS management had listened to Mr > Dachtera and ported VMS to the then 32 bit 8086. Today, they could load > VMS on those laptops with space to spare simply because VMS engineers > have always been fairly mature, efficient and frugal in system resources > needed to run their software. It would have paid off big time if VMS had > been selected to be the OS of choice for those laptops all around the > world. (put in Mosaic, update MAIL and DECWRITE and you're set). > > It, way too late now, of course. > > But it is interesting to see Microsoft struggle with this and hopefully > they will fail and millions of kids around the world will learn Linux > first. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Dec 2007 18:24:09 GMT From: billg999@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: One Laptop per Child Message-ID: <5s82u9F17juq8U1@mid.individual.net> In article <13ltfkgjv4vqbe@news.supernews.com>, "David Turner, Island Computers" writes: > I wonder how long it will be before we see stolen OLPC laptops on Ebay!?!? Knowing who the target market is why wold they need to be stolen? The residents of most of these third world countries sell their kids do you think they won't sell the free PC someone gives them? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:48:12 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: OT: One Laptop per Child Message-ID: In article <73a23$475dc8f3$cef8887a$966@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: > You are making the assumption that they are easy to learn later in life. Yes. > Try getting a older adult who has never used a computer to learn it. > There are many who just can't. But most can master what they need to. Again, will having learned current computer technology help 30 years from now, when this technology will probably be quite different? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:33:47 -0800 (PST) From: DJE Systems Subject: Re: Unix for VMS guys Message-ID: Steve, Your spam filters appear to be broken. I cannot get an e-mail reply through to you from any of my ISPs (Earthlink, Comcast, DLS, AOL). Keep getting "550" response. David J Dachtera DJE Systems ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.678 ************************