INFO-VAX Sun, 18 Nov 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 632 Contents: Wireless. PCMCIA etc.? Re: Wireless. PCMCIA etc.? Re: Wireless. PCMCIA etc.? Re: X11 in a browser? Re: X11 in a browser? Re: X11 in a browser? Re: X11 in a browser? Re: X11 in a browser? Re: X11 in a browser? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:00:49 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Wireless. PCMCIA etc.? Message-ID: Just saw an ad http://www.synchrotech.com/products/card-rw_06_p111_p222_elan_pcmcia_pc-card_reader_slot.html for a PCI card to permit plugin of PCMCIA card, which makes me wonder if it were possible to support such a device under VMS and run an 802.11g lan. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 16:29:16 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Wireless. PCMCIA etc.? Message-ID: In article , "Tom Linden" writes: > > >Just saw an ad >http://www.synchrotech.com/products/card-rw_06_p111_p222_elan_pcmcia_pc-card_reader_slot.html >for a PCI card to permit plugin of PCMCIA card, which makes me wonder if >it were possible to >support such a device under VMS and run an 802.11g lan. Way back when... I was given an AlphaStation 4/133 which was use to run that Redmond outfit's game console. It has an EISA card which supported two PCMCIA slots. One of the slots has a modem card. I was able to get some functionality from the modem but I never went much farther with it. If you want 802.11g, why not just buy an 802.11g PCI card? You might be able to get it to be recognized as a device but you'd need some software to configure the SSID and security options you use for your wireless net. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: 18 Nov 2007 12:14:16 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Wireless. PCMCIA etc.? Message-ID: In article , VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: > In article , "Tom Linden" writes: >> >> >>Just saw an ad >>http://www.synchrotech.com/products/card-rw_06_p111_p222_elan_pcmcia_pc-card_reader_slot.html >>for a PCI card to permit plugin of PCMCIA card, which makes me wonder if >>it were possible to >>support such a device under VMS and run an 802.11g lan. > > Way back when... I was given an AlphaStation 4/133 which was use to run > that Redmond outfit's game console. It has an EISA card which supported > two PCMCIA slots. One of the slots has a modem card. I was able to get > some functionality from the modem but I never went much farther with it. > > If you want 802.11g, why not just buy an 802.11g PCI card? You might be > able to get it to be recognized as a device but you'd need some software > to configure the SSID and security options you use for your wireless net. But VMS _has_ modem support (I too have such a card, bought with VMS). I would think specific 802.11g support would be required in both a driver and DECnet to make use of it. For some people, TCP/IP support would also be required for one of the three stacks. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 10:42:58 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: X11 in a browser? Message-ID: In article <473F4E4A.5040201@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >sean@obanion.us wrote: >> On Nov 16, 12:16 pm, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob >> Koehler) wrote: >> >>>In article <473db3ea$0$9409$91cee...@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at>, "Walter Kuhn" writes: >>> >>> >>>>1) there is an existing OpenVMS application with X11 (not Motif) user >>>>interface >>>>2) The user has PCs with normal Web Browsers (no additional software) >>>>3) Users wans to use the application (1) completely in the browser (no >>>>additional software) >>> >>>>Any ideas, hints, suggestions >>> >>> Get a new user. >> >> >> I was thinking of that, but then some people might say that's why I'm >> working as a contractor and not an employee: >> "Not a team player, are you?" >> >> >> Sean > >I'm not a team player either! Look for a new contract! Your >alternative is to write a web interface for the application. If you're >fluent in HTML, Javascript, and just general web interfacing you could >probably do what he wants but I suspect that the bill would be far more >than the client wants or is able to pay!!!!!! > >Since the user could almost certainly get PC software that will handle X >windows for $400-$600 that's probably the way to go. If he needs fifty >or a hundred copies of the PC software, that could get a little >expensive and it might actually be worth writing a web interface. > Alternatively if the user is not averse to using public domain software on his PCs then he could use the free Xming X windows software see http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmng and http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/ David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 04:20:07 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: X11 in a browser? Message-ID: <530e6aea-54b1-46af-a2af-458973b2140f@c30g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> On Nov 16, 10:14 am, "Walter Kuhn" wrote: > 1) there is an existing OpenVMS application with X11 (not Motif) user > interface > 2) The user has PCs with normal Web Browsers (no additional software) > 3) Users wans to use the application (1) completely in the browser (no > additional software) > > Any ideas, hints, suggestions > > Thank you in advance > Walter Kuhn Walter, While not my first choice, sometimes configurations such as this are what is necessary, and they can be constructed. If I am limited to a connection from within a www browser, then there is a possible approach, although it would not be my first choice if I was starting from the beginning. The phrase "...PC with normal Web Browers (no additional software) ...", in my experience really means "... Internet Explorer with no non-Microsoft provided enhancements ...". Using that basis, the Microsoft-supplied plugin that allows use of desktop sessions on a remote system (ala RDP), together with a multi-user configured X- server on a relatively inexpensive Windows server, would fit the criteria that have been established. I would have to research it, but my recollection is that this is supported, even if communications are limited to TCP ports 80 (HTTP) and 443 (SHTTP). While the preceding description is admittedly not what I would teach in a course on system implementation, such constructions are not infrequently needed to deal with one limitation or another. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: 18 Nov 2007 08:18:54 -0600 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: X11 in a browser? Message-ID: In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: > In article <473F4E4A.5040201@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: >>Since the user could almost certainly get PC software that will handle X >>windows for $400-$600 that's probably the way to go. If he needs fifty >>or a hundred copies of the PC software, that could get a little >>expensive and it might actually be worth writing a web interface. >> > Alternatively if the user is not averse to using public domain software on his > PCs then he could use the free Xming X windows software see > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmng > > and > > http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/ What if the customer needs some third alternative to: a) pay money b) get it for free ? :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 02:32:06 +1030 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Re: X11 in a browser? Message-ID: <13k0l06htlltead@corp.supernews.com> Larry Kilgallen wrote: > In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: > >>In article <473F4E4A.5040201@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > >>>Since the user could almost certainly get PC software that will handle X >>>windows for $400-$600 that's probably the way to go. If he needs fifty >>>or a hundred copies of the PC software, that could get a little >>>expensive and it might actually be worth writing a web interface. >>> >> >>Alternatively if the user is not averse to using public domain software on his >>PCs then he could use the free Xming X windows software see >> >>http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmng >> >>and >> >>http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/ > > > What if the customer needs some third alternative to: > > a) pay money > > b) get it for free > > ? :-) With Xming you can do both/either. Note the donation link http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/#sect-16 (In fact it would appear you cannot obtain the latest release without donating!) Seriously ... I evaluated the Cygwin/X package some time ago and found it unusable for my purposes. I have been using X-Win32 http://www.starnet.com/products/xwin32/ with great satisfaction for some time now but an alternative, which licence doesn't regularly expire, would be serious contender. I just downloaded the Xming package, have installed it, and am composing the VMS Mozilla newsreader reply using it as the X-Window Server. First impressions: fast, lightweight, stable (at least it hasn't crashed yet with five DECterms and one Mozilla running; I also ran up DECwindows Mail, clock, etc., just to check) and seems to be handling the keyboard mapping from PC to VT-style for TPU., etc., adequately (with a little xmodmap-ing in my LOGIN.COM). My only gripe so far (and this is one that also criticises VMS' 'detached' application creation infrastructure) is the lack of what I would call a real application launcher (X-Win32's is superb). It's a bit of a pain SSHing to the VMS box to launch (detached) DECterms and having to maintain them for applications such as Mozilla. Still, with a little judicous command-prompt batch programming that might be made less irksome. If there's any interest I'll report back after using it for a period. -- In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time someting like that happened in politics or religion. [Carl Sagan; The Demon Haunted World] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 07:43:23 -0800 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: X11 in a browser? Message-ID: On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:02:06 -0800, Mark Daniel wrote: > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> In article , david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk >> writes: >> >>> In article <473F4E4A.5040201@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" >>> writes: >> >>>> Since the user could almost certainly get PC software that will >>>> handle X windows for $400-$600 that's probably the way to go. If he >>>> needs fifty or a hundred copies of the PC software, that could get a >>>> little expensive and it might actually be worth writing a web >>>> interface. >>>> >>> >>> Alternatively if the user is not averse to using public domain >>> software on his >>> PCs then he could use the free Xming X windows software see >>> >>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmng >>> >>> and >>> >>> http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/ >> What if the customer needs some third alternative to: >> a) pay money >> b) get it for free >> ? :-) > > With Xming you can do both/either. Note the donation link > > http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/#sect-16 > > (In fact it would appear you cannot obtain the latest release without > donating!) > > Seriously ... I evaluated the Cygwin/X package some time ago and found > it unusable for my purposes. I have been using X-Win32 > > http://www.starnet.com/products/xwin32/ > > with great satisfaction for some time now but an alternative, which > licence doesn't regularly expire, would be serious contender. I just > downloaded the Xming package, have installed it, and am composing the > VMS Mozilla newsreader reply using it as the X-Window Server. > > First impressions: fast, lightweight, stable (at least it hasn't crashed > yet with five DECterms and one Mozilla running; I also ran up DECwindows > Mail, clock, etc., just to check) and seems to be handling the keyboard > mapping from PC to VT-style for TPU., etc., adequately (with a little > xmodmap-ing in my LOGIN.COM). Mark, have you had occasion to compare it to eXcursion, for which I have had a number of DECterms, emacs and dbg running without problem through SSH connection? > > My only gripe so far (and this is one that also criticises VMS' > 'detached' application creation infrastructure) is the lack of what I > would call a real application launcher (X-Win32's is superb). It's a > bit of a pain SSHing to the VMS box to launch (detached) DECterms and > having to maintain them for applications such as Mozilla. Still, with a > little judicous command-prompt batch programming that might be made less > irksome. > > If there's any interest I'll report back after using it for a period. > > -- > In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a > really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would > actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them > again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, > because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it > happens every day. I cannot recall the last time someting like that > happened in politics or religion. > [Carl Sagan; The Demon Haunted World] -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 04:40:04 +1030 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Re: X11 in a browser? Message-ID: <13k0sg3q4hch2d3@corp.supernews.com> Tom Linden wrote: > On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:02:06 -0800, Mark Daniel > wrote: > >> Larry Kilgallen wrote: >> >>> In article , >>> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk writes: >>> >>>> In article <473F4E4A.5040201@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" >>>> writes: >>> >>> >>>>> Since the user could almost certainly get PC software that will >>>>> handle X windows for $400-$600 that's probably the way to go. If >>>>> he needs fifty or a hundred copies of the PC software, that could >>>>> get a little expensive and it might actually be worth writing a >>>>> web interface. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Alternatively if the user is not averse to using public domain >>>> software on his >>>> PCs then he could use the free Xming X windows software see >>>> >>>> http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmng >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/ >>> >>> What if the customer needs some third alternative to: >>> a) pay money >>> b) get it for free >>> ? :-) >> >> >> With Xming you can do both/either. Note the donation link >> >> http://www.straightrunning.com/XmingNotes/#sect-16 >> >> (In fact it would appear you cannot obtain the latest release without >> donating!) >> >> Seriously ... I evaluated the Cygwin/X package some time ago and >> found it unusable for my purposes. I have been using X-Win32 >> >> http://www.starnet.com/products/xwin32/ >> >> with great satisfaction for some time now but an alternative, which >> licence doesn't regularly expire, would be serious contender. I just >> downloaded the Xming package, have installed it, and am composing the >> VMS Mozilla newsreader reply using it as the X-Window Server. >> >> First impressions: fast, lightweight, stable (at least it hasn't >> crashed yet with five DECterms and one Mozilla running; I also ran up >> DECwindows Mail, clock, etc., just to check) and seems to be handling >> the keyboard mapping from PC to VT-style for TPU., etc., adequately >> (with a little xmodmap-ing in my LOGIN.COM). > > > Mark, have you had occasion to compare it to eXcursion, for which I have > had a number of DECterms, emacs and dbg running without problem through > SSH connection? I haven't Tom. I'm wasn't necessarily looking to replace X-Win32. It's becoming more capable and stable with each release - quite acceptable these days. It's always useful to have another way to accomplish the same objective though. Particularly when it's basically costless :-) >> My only gripe so far (and this is one that also criticises VMS' >> 'detached' application creation infrastructure) is the lack of what I >> would call a real application launcher (X-Win32's is superb). It's a >> bit of a pain SSHing to the VMS box to launch (detached) DECterms and >> having to maintain them for applications such as Mozilla. Still, with >> a little judicous command-prompt batch programming that might be made >> less irksome. >> >> If there's any interest I'll report back after using it for a period. >> >> -- >> In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a >> really good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would >> actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from >> them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it >> should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. >> But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time someting like >> that happened in politics or religion. >> [Carl Sagan; The Demon Haunted World] -- If you want to save your child from polio, you can pray or you can inoculate. [Carl Sagan; A Demon Haunted World] ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.632 ************************