INFO-VAX Sun, 28 Oct 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 589 Contents: Re: DCL Help F$FAO error (VAX VMS 7.3, Alpha VMS 8.3) Disapearing file ! RE: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young RE: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Re: MAC OS-X or Linux ? Re: MAC OS-X or Linux ? Re: MAC OS-X or Linux ? Re: Martin Fink Webcast Re: Martin Fink Webcast Re: Martin Fink Webcast Re: Martin Fink Webcast RE: Martin Fink Webcast Re: Martin Fink Webcast Re: Martin Fink Webcast Re: Martin Fink Webcast Re: Martin Fink Webcast Re: Martin Fink Webcast Re: Martin Fink Webcast Still more NFS problems - and happy birthday VMS Re: Still more NFS problems - and happy birthday VMS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:59:34 -0700 From: Ken Fairfield Subject: Re: DCL Help F$FAO error (VAX VMS 7.3, Alpha VMS 8.3) Message-ID: <5ohco1Fmve3cU1@mid.individual.net> Wilm Boerhout wrote: > For all you DCL jockeys out there: > > I recently had a need for the F$FAO "plurals" directive, and DCL help > led me astray: from "help F$FAO directives" I understood that the > plurals directives should be used as follows: > > $ say f$fao("!2UL artike!1%C!%E!%F", n, "l", "len") > > where instead the proper use is: > > $ say f$fao("!2UL artike!1%Cl!%Elen!%F", n) > > I.e. the arguments are not placed in the parameter list as suggested in > DCL help, but in line in thee FAO string. The documentation is probably > right (saw an excerpt on the 'net), just not the DCL help. > > /Wilm > > PS Dutch word for English "article" = > "artikel" (singular), > "artikelen", 0 or plural FWIW, I've always gone to the System Services Reference Manual for $FAO and its directives. The SSRM is more complete...and apparently more accurate... -Ken -- Ken & Ann Fairfield What: Ken dot And dot Ann Where: Gmail dot Com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 00:44:15 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Disapearing file ! Message-ID: <99fd3$4724139f$cef8887a$27262@TEKSAVVY.COM> I invoked mozilla from a SYS$LOGIN:MOZILLA.COM file. (it send escape sequence to the decterm to indicate this is a mozilla log window, makes sures all privileges are disabled (except tmpmbx, netmbx) and then calls the mozilla executable. SYS$LOGIN:MOZILLA.COM would therefore remain open throughout the life of the session. Tonight, Mozilla crashed for some reason. When I tried to restart it from the same window (just uparrow to recall the @MOZILLA command), VMS told me that the file didn't exist. Indeed, the file MOZILLA.COM is gone. I immediatly tried DFU to undelete it. It didn't find it. I tried ana/disk/repair, it didn't find it. SEARCH INDEXF.SYS MOZILLA.COM reveals there is a MOZILLA.COM;5 on that disk. But DIR disk:[000000...]*mozilla*.com yields nothing. SHOW DEV/FILES/NOSYS does not show any mozilla.com (or any file with just file id and no filename). Now, if I had inadvertedly deleted MOZILLA.COM while it was in use, I can understand that it would have eventually been deleted when the image crashed and the command procedure would have exited. But since I ran DFU almost right away, shouldn't it have been able to recover it ? Does anyone know of a tool to report on a file found in INDEXF.SYS to dump all the data for that record and possibly dump the blocks associated with that file ? (perhaps the contents have not been overwitten even if allocated to another file ?) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 17:54:22 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Robinson [mailto:kenrbnsn@gmail.com] > Sent: October 27, 2007 11:36 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young > > On 10/27/07, Dr. Dweeb wrote (in part): > > > Anyway, guys, like I have said before - there is no future for VMS > because > > HP does not want one. It constitutes about 1% of the revenues (a wild > > unsubstantiated guess to make a point) and is thus off Hurd's radar. > We all > > need to deal with it and get on with our lives, looking after our > families > > and looking forward to retirement on some tropical island. > > There's a good article on internetnews.com about the 30th Anniversary > . It seems > to contradict your opinion. One quote I find particularly interesting > is "As part of its anniversary celebrations, HP is rolling out a new > marketing campaign for the middle-aged OS,". > > Ken Hey, I like the term middle-aged OS .. has a nice ring to it. :-) Nice article. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:01:28 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: <1193508088.201139.3890@z9g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Oct 27, 11:06 am, "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > And here is good HP web site that I like:http://tinyurl.com/2wcfjp > "The amazing operating system you've never heard of" > One statement in that article echoes something a customer said to me recently. This is a small manufacturer running OpenVMS on DS10 for all of their front and back-room accounting, procurement, planning, production, and distribution activities -- in other words, most everything they do that's important. They also have a Win2k3 server running Exchange and supporting some PC apps. They've replaced or "upgraded" the Windows server hardware three times since the DS10 was installed, and during the latest "upgrade" the general manager said to me: "Why can't this Windows stuff work like VMS? We never have to worry about VMS. It just works!" A belated Happy Birthday, OpenVMS. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 18:14:09 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Phillips [mailto:dphill46@netscape.net] > Sent: October 27, 2007 2:01 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young > > On Oct 27, 11:06 am, "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > > > > And here is good HP web site that I like:http://tinyurl.com/2wcfjp > > "The amazing operating system you've never heard of" > > > > One statement in that article echoes something a customer said to me > recently. > > This is a small manufacturer running OpenVMS on DS10 for all of their > front and back-room accounting, procurement, planning, production, and > distribution activities -- in other words, most everything they do > that's important. They also have a Win2k3 server running Exchange and > supporting some PC apps. They've replaced or "upgraded" the Windows > server hardware three times since the DS10 was installed, and during > the latest "upgrade" the general manager said to me: "Why can't this > Windows stuff work like VMS? We never have to worry about VMS. It just > works!" > > A belated Happy Birthday, OpenVMS. And if they would like to keep their Outlook or web based email clients, bu= t replace Their Exchange mail server with a plug compatible virus free server that ru= ns on their DS10 with OpenVMS, check out: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/mail.html :-) And if they want a really, really cool demo of this, check out: http://www.communigate.com/pronto/demo_10_enterprise.html Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 12:27:43 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: <1193513263.125916.213660@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> On Oct 27, 1:14 pm, "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Doug Phillips [mailto:dphil...@netscape.net] > > Sent: October 27, 2007 2:01 PM > > To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young > > > On Oct 27, 11:06 am, "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > > > And here is good HP web site that I like:http://tinyurl.com/2wcfjp > > > "The amazing operating system you've never heard of" > > > One statement in that article echoes something a customer said to me > > recently. > > > This is a small manufacturer running OpenVMS on DS10 for all of their > > front and back-room accounting, procurement, planning, production, and > > distribution activities -- in other words, most everything they do > > that's important. They also have a Win2k3 server running Exchange and > > supporting some PC apps. They've replaced or "upgraded" the Windows > > server hardware three times since the DS10 was installed, and during > > the latest "upgrade" the general manager said to me: "Why can't this > > Windows stuff work like VMS? We never have to worry about VMS. It just > > works!" > > > A belated Happy Birthday, OpenVMS. > > And if they would like to keep their Outlook or web based email clients, but replace > Their Exchange mail server with a plug compatible virus free server that runs on their > DS10 with OpenVMS, check out: > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/mail.html > > :-) > > And if they want a really, really cool demo of this, check out:http://www.communigate.com/pronto/demo_10_enterprise.html > I've looked at communigate before. Looks like nice stuff and the price isn't bad but I've never had the opportunity to install it anywhere. If Exchange were the only reason to have the Windows server, they probably wouldn't have it. Unfortunately there are too many other things that either aren't available for VMS, or if they are they're high-priced and not made for a small business. The Open Source stuff I've seen that *could* be made to serve some of their needs requires more time and effort to support than either they or I are willing to invest. Their major customers have some "demands" that can most easily be met %100 with Windows and that's just an unfortunate fact. If they could run over to CompUSA or browse over to CDW and find a nice selection of OTS VMS app's then maybe I could convince them that VMS is all they need. What do you think? But I didn't want to cast a negative into this discussion by explaining why they have a Windows server and why VMS doesn't meet 100% of their needs. I also didn't want to mention some of the other comments made by customers about the effort it takes to install VMS patches and updates, nor their concerns about VMS' future, so I won't. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:55:10 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Happy Anniversary VMS - 30 years young Message-ID: <4723DDEE.60F72315@spam.comcast.net> Ken Robinson wrote: > [snip] > There's a good article on internetnews.com about the 30th Anniversary > . It seems > to contradict your opinion. One quote I find particularly interesting > is "As part of its anniversary celebrations, HP is rolling out a new > marketing campaign for the middle-aged OS,". "a new marketing campaign", eh? We'll see about that. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:58:19 -0600 From: Jeff Campbell Subject: Re: MAC OS-X or Linux ? Message-ID: <1193518317_13445@sp12lax.superfeed.net> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article , Bob Harris writes: >> >> In article , >> Ron Johnson wrote: >> >>> On 10/25/07 22:39, Bob Harris wrote: >>>> In article <1acdd$4720ab25$cef8887a$15776@TEKSAVVY.COM>, >>>> JF Mezei wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ron Johnson wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> And OSX users. Unless you've figured out a way to disable the GUI. >>>>> While I still haven't found a way to telnet into the mac, I can ssh into >>>>> it and issue plenty of unix commands. And I can run X applications on >>>>> the mac that display on an x terminal. (But the native mac applications >>>>> don't do that). >>>> To access the GUI stuff, I just use VNC and view the desktop. So >>>> I use a combination of ssh for terminal sessions and VNC if I want >>>> the desktop (I actually tunnel the VNC via an ssh tunnel over the >>>> same ssh terminal connection. >>> But that just seems so *hackish* (and not is the good connotation). >>> >>> X Windows' network transparency seems much cleaner to me, since you >>> don't need to run a full-blown GUI on the server (which is actually >>> an X client). >> But since Mac OS X is NOT X11 based, using VNC is a way to access >> the Mac OS X GUI apps remotely, if you need to do it once in a >> while, or even regularly if you have enough bandwidth. >> >> In addition, I've used X11 2000 miles from Client to Server, and >> X11 can be VERY chatty, where VNC can be much more bandwidth >> efficient. A lot depends on the X11 app. You have never lived >> until you have waited 10 to 20 seconds for a menu click to display >> the menu, and for multiple clicks to be queued and be totally >> confused about where you are in an X11 app. "Been there done >> that", I'll use VNC in that situation, thank you. > > VNC is efficient? It's a screen scraper. I use it to access a remote > Weendoze box and the router/network activity peg. > > > >> As far as VNC is concerned, I use to to control Linux systems, >> Windows systems, as well as Mac OS X systems. I also use X11 and >> ssh sessions as well. I use what gets the job done efficiently. >> 'cleaner' means nothing if it is too slow. > > When the VNC server dies on the Weendoze box, how to you access it to > restore your accessibility? > > Telnet in and restart. 8-) I've never had a RealVNC server on a windows box die on me though. Jeff ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 23:39:56 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: MAC OS-X or Linux ? Message-ID: In article <1193518317_13445@sp12lax.superfeed.net>, Jeff Campbell writes: {...snip...} >> When the VNC server dies on the Weendoze box, how to you access it to >> restore your accessibility? >> >> >Telnet in and restart. 8-) There is a cli command to do this? Please, do tell. This periodic VNC server death is maddening. >I've never had a RealVNC server on a windows box die on me though. I've never had one stay alive for more than a day. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 21:19:02 -0600 From: Jeff Campbell Subject: Re: MAC OS-X or Linux ? Message-ID: <1193541160_13971@sp12lax.superfeed.net> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <1193518317_13445@sp12lax.superfeed.net>, Jeff Campbell writes: > {...snip...} >>> When the VNC server dies on the Weendoze box, how to you access it to >>> restore your accessibility? >>> >>> >> Telnet in and restart. 8-) > > There is a cli command to do this? Please, do tell. This periodic VNC > server death is maddening. Log in as administrator and issue: net start winvnc4 which starts the service. net start will show you the currently running services. > > > >> I've never had a RealVNC server on a windows box die on me though. > > I've never had one stay alive for more than a day. > > Jeff ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:15:09 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Martin Fink Webcast Message-ID: <4a1c2$47238e40$cef8887a$30823@TEKSAVVY.COM> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > Dave Gudewicz wrote: >> >> Answers to the questions sent to Martin Fink can be viewed at: >> >> https://www.encompassus.org/community/sigs/FinkQuestionsAnswers.doc I really have to wonder about a user group dedicated to VMS which publishes application/msword documents. At least their web server didn't feed as as "application/octet-stream". And can ayone explain why they would publish an https: URL for a document that should be public ? > I've made a PDF version that can be found here : > > http://www.jescab.se/upload/FinkQuestionsAnswers.pdf Many thanks for taking the time to provide a document in readable format. As for the contents, there is no point in commenting. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 15:21:27 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Martin Fink Webcast Message-ID: Ok, there is one comment I cannot resist because this appears to be a new spin at HP. I was startled by Fink's comments about VMS customers not wanting regular/frequent software upgrades. Once HP management accepts the brainwahsing that VMS customers don't want upgrades, it becomes far easier for them to slow down VMS development to include only support for new devices. Very dangerous slope. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:07:40 -0700 From: IanMiller Subject: Re: Martin Fink Webcast Message-ID: <1193515660.500967.181420@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> At this years bootcamp and at previous bootcamp there was no interest from attendees in upgrading vms more than once a year, and in fact once a year was too often for some people. (There is a lot of work in upgrading a operating system version on a live production system.) This is consistent with HP's position that a new release every 18-24 months fits with what customers want. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 16:24:21 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Martin Fink Webcast Message-ID: <47239E75.5030403@comcast.net> IanMiller wrote: > At this years bootcamp and at previous bootcamp there was no interest > from attendees in upgrading vms more than once a year, and in fact > once a year was too often for some people. (There is a lot of work in > upgrading a operating system version on a live production system.) > > This is consistent with HP's position that a new release every 18-24 > months fits with what customers want. > > > > An O/S upgrade can be a major undertaking in any commercial environment. I've been through an upgrade that required ~3000 man hours of planning and testing. The actual upgrade, O/S and layered products combined (ACMS, RDB, etc,etc.) was a small matter compared with the necessary preparation. This included cloning a test cluster from the production system, upgrading and testing the test cluster and doing a lot of tuning of ACMS/RDB. The upgrade not only provided the new features that were wanted but also a substantial peformance improvement thanks, in large part, to the tuning and testing and tuning and testing. . . . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:23:02 +0000 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Martin Fink Webcast Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: IanMiller [mailto:gxys@uk2.net] > Sent: October 27, 2007 4:08 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Martin Fink Webcast > > At this years bootcamp and at previous bootcamp there was no interest > from attendees in upgrading vms more than once a year, and in fact > once a year was too often for some people. (There is a lot of work in > upgrading a operating system version on a live production system.) > > This is consistent with HP's position that a new release every 18-24 > months fits with what customers want. > And lets put things in perspective - the upgrade from Windows XP SP2 to Vis= ta was approximately 3+ years as I recall. Windows 2003 to V.Next will be in the same range (might be longer). Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT) OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:22:23 -0700 From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Martin Fink Webcast Message-ID: <1193520143.325928.304970@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Oct 27, 3:21 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > Ok, there is one comment I cannot resist because this appears to be a > new spin at HP. > > I was startled by Fink's comments about VMS customers not wanting > regular/frequent software upgrades. > > Once HP management accepts the brainwahsing that VMS customers don't > want upgrades, it becomes far easier for them to slow down VMS > development to include only support for new devices. > > Very dangerous slope. JF, The response about "... do want to update their software environments on a regular basis." was in response to a question about open source software. Many open source projects are in a continuous state of flux, versions appear in some cases on a weekly basis. It is my opinion, reading the document from the Encompass www server that Mr. Fink's comments in that regard are correct. The production community does not, in my experience, want to deal with new component versions on a frequent basis. This is not about fixes for known problems, these are new releases with both fixes and new features. Having had clients where the supported environment is in a constant state of flux, it is extraordinarily frustrating production experience. I would not interpret this comment negatively, it is a comment directly in response to a particular question, and is, IMHO, a reasonable response to that question. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:29:11 -0700 From: Bob Gezelter Subject: Re: Martin Fink Webcast Message-ID: <1193520551.298715.159760@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> On Oct 27, 5:22 pm, Bob Gezelter wrote: > On Oct 27, 3:21 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > > > Ok, there is one comment I cannot resist because this appears to be a > > new spin at HP. > > > I was startled by Fink's comments about VMS customers not wanting > > regular/frequent software upgrades. > > > Once HP management accepts the brainwahsing that VMS customers don't > > want upgrades, it becomes far easier for them to slow down VMS > > development to include only support for new devices. > > > Very dangerous slope. > > JF, > > The response about "... do want to update their software environments > on a regular basis." was in response to a question about open source > software. > > Many open source projects are in a continuous state of flux, versions > appear in some cases on a weekly basis. It is my opinion, reading the > document from the Encompass www server that Mr. Fink's comments in > that regard are correct. The production community does not, in my > experience, want to deal with new component versions on a frequent > basis. This is not about fixes for known problems, these are new > releases with both fixes and new features. > > Having had clients where the supported environment is in a constant > state of flux, it is extraordinarily frustrating production > experience. > > I would not interpret this comment negatively, it is a comment > directly in response to a particular question, and is, IMHO, a > reasonable response to that question. > > - Bob Gezelter,http://www.rlgsc.com JF, I hit too soon. There is northing in Mr. Fink's response indicating that customers do not want upgrades, merely that they want them at a measured pace. One does not want to have support dealing with many different versions of the code, it quickly becomes unmanageable. Think of calling support and inquiring about a problem: Customer: I have the following problem ..... Support: What version of this code are you running? Customer: 5.23-145 Support: Oh, it looks like something like you describe was fixed in 5.23-199; the current version is 5.23-345. The only fix is to upgrade to the latest version. Customer: This is a production system, I need a patch kit, if there is new functionality, I will have to re-qualify the entire application. Support: Sorry, they do not do patch kits, only new versions In the non-OpenVMS aspects of my practice, been there, done that. It does not make for a good situation. - Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 23:37:01 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Martin Fink Webcast Message-ID: In article <1193515660.500967.181420@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, IanMiller writes: > > >At this years bootcamp and at previous bootcamp there was no interest >from attendees in upgrading vms more than once a year, and in fact >once a year was too often for some people. (There is a lot of work in >upgrading a operating system version on a live production system.) Ian, Were these the _same_ attendees with the Micro$haft Weendoze laptops rebooting every 18-24 mins and broadcasting ad hoc wireless networks called 'bootcamp'? >This is consistent with HP's position that a new release every 18-24 >months fits with what customers want. What customers *do* want is an OS that doesn't require them to have to upgrade and reboot frequently; strangely, this desirable trait is dia- metrically juxtaposed to the reality of Weendoze. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:57:25 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Martin Fink Webcast Message-ID: <4723DE75.D3EACAE8@spam.comcast.net> Mark Daniel wrote: > > David J Dachtera wrote: > > As I was unable to participate in the webcast due to family issues, I'm hoping > > there will be a transcript/recording/download/etc. of it available at some > > point. > > > > I think its fair to say that the question I posed - as I posed it - was not > > addressed: > > > > 1. OpenVMS, HP Business Continuity > > > > HP recently went around to the major OpenVMS ISVs (Cerner, MiSys (aka Sunquest), > > and others) and promoted UX instead of OpenVMS on Itanium causing a large-scale > > abandonment of both OpenVMS and HP in favor of IBM and AIX. We know this because > > our vendors told us this is what happened and our colleagues at other sites tell > > us that this is how their management have responded to the word from the > > vendors. Please explain HP's thinking in this action, and what, if anything, HP > > is doing to stem this tide, if not reverse it. > > Assuming the veracity of this report [snip] E-mail me privately and I'll forward you the messages that came directly from the vendors and from other sites. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:57:51 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Martin Fink Webcast Message-ID: <4723FAAF.4090105@comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > Bob Gezelter wrote: > >> I would not interpret this comment negatively, it is a comment >> directly in response to a particular question, and is, IMHO, a >> reasonable response to that question. > > > > Instead of: > ## > Response: OpenVMS customers typically do not want to update their > software environments on a > regular basis. Therefore, the strategy for OpenVMS, regarding > OpenSource, is to monitor (open source releases for a stable one to port > to vms). > ## > > > He could have said: > > VMS customers typically want stable and reliable software so the > stragegy for OpenVMS regarding OPenSource, is to monitor (etc etc). > > > Sorry, but VMS customers do want to update their software on a regular > basis. We can debate the frequency between once a year, once every 18 > months, 2 years etc, but we still want regular software updates. > > > the owner of VMS has used that argument to justify not providing the > promised 8.* version for VAX-VMS. And from the real world perspective, > the statement "customers do not want regular software updates" is usally > translated as "customers are running legacy environments that do not > evolve". > > Will HP now start to use that argument for the Alpha installed base to > justify a decision to stop developping Alpha-VMS ? > Is anyone who is still using a VAX in production REALLY interested in "evolution"? The VAX was a fine machine in it's day but the Alphas are a lot faster! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 00:10:34 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Martin Fink Webcast Message-ID: Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > Is anyone who is still using a VAX in production REALLY interested in > "evolution"? The VAX was a fine machine in it's day but the Alphas are > a lot faster! A few points: Fink used "regular" not "frequent" when refering to software upgrades. Big difference. Secondly, the point about VAX is that this argument of customers not needing upgrades was used to justify breaking a promise. But this time, he didn't mention "VAX", it mentioned "OpenVMS" which means all customers, alpha and iA64 included. Take a careful look at question 8. Consider that HP has told Cerner to drop VMS and tell me if Fink's answer with regards to support of ISVs is credible. And tell me if he actually answered the question about continued development of VMS. Also important in the answer is the tense use to open the response: THE PAST. Yep, it all mentions about investments made in the past. And the big whopper: Those investments have allowed sales of IA64 to grow since IA64 was first made available. Big woopty doo. Like Digital being the fastest growing PC maker when sales of its PC went from 1 to 10 (1000% growth) Except for the statement about VMS customers no longer wanting regular software updates, there is nothing of substance in that message/document. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:02:56 +1100 From: Gremlin Subject: Still more NFS problems - and happy birthday VMS Message-ID: <13i7uv27m0st266@corp.supernews.com> So, happy birthday VMS - a couple of dinners were held in Adelaide and Sydney, Australia to celebrate. Very few attended, but I suppose that is a reflection of the changing times. In Sydney we had a couple of attendees with VMS experience starting in 1979....and still using it. So now the bad news - NFS on OpenVMS 8.2.....still going with this. JF, I appreciate that you can get it to talk (with priv issues) to OSX and I have used the same commands to a Windows2003 server, but with no luck. I have now installed a new, fresh Windows2003R2 server with the "new" MS tools for UNIX - not the "old" SFU v3.5 - all error logging is enabled. On Windows, the UNIX (ie VMS) username SYSTEM is mapped to a domain administrator account, anonymous access is allowed and a NFS share is created. The Windows log shows no errors From VMS, I can mount the NFS disk and unmount it, but I cannot do any file access at all. I have tried every variation of a mount command and all those that work show up in the Windows log as successful. ANY atttempt to read the disk structure in any way fails on VMS but doesn't leave an error on Windows - it is as if the *actual* reading wasn't really happening - just timing out as the VMS message says. So, I am certain it is something on the VMS end but given that I can mount/unmount perfectly well, why does any type of read, such as $dir dnfs1:[000000] or $dir dnfs1:[000000.fred] or $dir dnfs1:[fred] not even seem to leave VMS? Is anyone using VMS as an NFS client to a Windows environment? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 00:36:14 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Still more NFS problems - and happy birthday VMS Message-ID: <3d06f$472411bf$cef8887a$26552@TEKSAVVY.COM> Gremlin wrote: > On Windows, the UNIX (ie VMS) username SYSTEM is mapped to a domain > administrator account, anonymous access is allowed and a NFS share is > created. The Windows log shows no errors "SYSTEM" doesn't really exist in NFS parlance. UID and GID values are exchanged. On VMS, when you issue a TCPIP MOUNT command, the GID/UID values are either specified in the MOUNT command, or VMS looks at the proxy database for a record with your username in it and uses UID/GID associated with this, or of there is nothing available, it uses a default value of -2 -2 . On unix servers, you have options of mapping the incoming remote UID/GID values to the local user database. You can't really do that on windows or VMS since the UID/GID values have no meaning on their systems. On all systems, you also have options to map incoming requests to specific local usernames. > From VMS, I can mount the NFS disk and unmount it, but I cannot do any > file access at all. It appears that just mounting doesn't do that much. (mountd deamon), but when you then try to access files, it is a different process (nfsd) which handles the requests. > wasn't really happening - just timing out as the VMS message says. Perhaps the mountd process is running, but the nfsd deamon isn't running ? The fact that VMS is waiting for a response and timing out is an indication that, instead of getting a bad status code from the server, VMS isn't getting any responses. Remember that NFS is usually UDP traffic, so there is no concept of a dropped connection. You can reboot the server and the client can happily continue to access his files. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.589 ************************