INFO-VAX Mon, 08 Oct 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 550
Contents:
Re: cop from ftp site
Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days
Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days
Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days
Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days
Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days
Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days
Re: Java on Mac OS X (Was Re: Web-based VMS Que Monitor for Deathrow)
Re: Java on Mac OS X (Was Re: Web-based VMS Que Monitor for Deathrow)
Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever
Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever
Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever
Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever
Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever
Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever
Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 8 Oct 2007 08:16:22 -0500
From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)
Subject: Re: cop from ftp site
Message-ID: <0dOUTHaG6WuM@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In article <1191523568.898789.28770@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, himansu <himansu114@gmail.com> writes:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> Anyone know how to copy from an ftp site after logging in and
> connecting? Basically once I'm in I want to go to a specific folder,
> then copy a file from that folder and then go into another folder and
> place the file there. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
>
> ** All in DCL.
Oh, that makes it easy. (If I understand your question.)
$ copy/ftp/username=soandso remote.node.stuff::"remote-path-and-file" -
local-path-and-file
Password: does-not-echo
Of course, you may or may not need /binary, depending on the file.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 11:29:23 GMT
From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG
Subject: Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days
Message-ID: <nwoOi.3$sH2.1@newsfe12.lga>
In article <c4fOi.13376$495.13086@newsfe22.lga>, Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net> writes:
>
>
>On 10/07/07 15:57, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>>> In article <1191759362.467649.27000@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>, Sue
>>> <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Newsgroup,
>>>>
>>>> I am sitting at Heathrow airport waiting for my flight to be called
>>>> reflecting on the last two weeks in Europe.
>>>>
>>>> So I thought I would try and work with an English keyboard and try and
>>>> give you an update.
>>>
>>> Why does your keyboard change because you are in the UK? I've been to
>>> the UK on numerous occasions and my keyboard still behaves like it does
>>> in the states.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe becuse Sue has been in Sweden the last couple of days and got
>> used to our keyboard layout ? Then the UK layout *is* different...
>
>He's attempting to make a joke about a keyboard magically changing
>functionality simply because it is transported from .se to .uk.
I doubt that Sue received any pavlovian conditioning by using a Swedish
keyboard layout during her brief stay. I still don't understand how her
keyboard is any different for typing in the UK. There's little differ-
ence between the UK and US keyboards.
US:[2/@] UK:[2/"]
US:[3/#] UK:[3/£]
US:['/"] UK:['/@]
Even with that small difference, (and I'm assuming Sue was using a Ween-
dose box) I doubt that Micro$oft is changing keyboard layouts by sensing
where in the world the user is situated.
Now, if you want to discuss different keyboard layouts, a friend of mine
from Denmark spent a week with me in the spring. His keyboard has extra
characters in the place of some of the familiar punctuation on the US/UK
keyboards. It still has a QWERTYUIOP layout.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"
http://tmesis.com/drat.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:07:19 -0400
From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days
Message-ID: <470A2B87.70400@comcast.net>
VAXman- wrote:
> In article <c4fOi.13376$495.13086@newsfe22.lga>, Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net> writes:
>
>>
>>On 10/07/07 15:57, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>
>>>VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <1191759362.467649.27000@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>, Sue
>>>><susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>>Dear Newsgroup,
>>>>>
>>>>>I am sitting at Heathrow airport waiting for my flight to be called
>>>>>reflecting on the last two weeks in Europe.
>>>>>
>>>>>So I thought I would try and work with an English keyboard and try and
>>>>>give you an update.
>>>>
>>>>Why does your keyboard change because you are in the UK? I've been to
>>>>the UK on numerous occasions and my keyboard still behaves like it does
>>>>in the states.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Maybe becuse Sue has been in Sweden the last couple of days and got
>>>used to our keyboard layout ? Then the UK layout *is* different...
>>
>>He's attempting to make a joke about a keyboard magically changing
>>functionality simply because it is transported from .se to .uk.
>
>
> I doubt that Sue received any pavlovian conditioning by using a Swedish
> keyboard layout during her brief stay. I still don't understand how her
> keyboard is any different for typing in the UK. There's little differ-
> ence between the UK and US keyboards.
>
You are assuming, with the usual and customary risks thereof, that the
keyboard in question was Sue's rather than a local keyboard she was
using temporarily!
I learned to type on an "MC88" telegrapher's keyboard. I subsequently
used model 19, 26, 33 and 35 teletype, model 26 and model 29 card punch,
IBM Selectric and enough others that I now just look at the damned thing
and adapt!
The "QUERTYUIOP" layout for the alphabetic keys seems almost universal.
The "special" !@#$%^&*()_+"':;|\][{} characters tend to move about in
annoying but still usable ways.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Oct 2007 08:36:48 -0500
From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)
Subject: Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days
Message-ID: <R4Ur5tFVTjQd@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In article <8nbOi.46$gM.36@newsfe12.lga>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>
> Why does your keyboard change because you are in the UK? I've been to
> the UK on numerous occasions and my keyboard still behaves like it does
> in the states.
Maybe the State Department won't let her take her laptop out of the
country and she's using one of those airport kiosks.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:33:03 GMT
From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG
Subject: Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days
Message-ID: <zcrOi.21$UF3.1@newsfe12.lga>
In article <470A2B87.70400@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:
>
>
>VAXman- wrote:
>> In article <c4fOi.13376$495.13086@newsfe22.lga>, Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net> writes:
>>
>>>
>>>On 10/07/07 15:57, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>>
>>>>VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article <1191759362.467649.27000@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>, Sue
>>>>><susan_skonetski@hotmail.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Dear Newsgroup,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I am sitting at Heathrow airport waiting for my flight to be called
>>>>>>reflecting on the last two weeks in Europe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So I thought I would try and work with an English keyboard and try and
>>>>>>give you an update.
>>>>>
>>>>>Why does your keyboard change because you are in the UK? I've been to
>>>>>the UK on numerous occasions and my keyboard still behaves like it does
>>>>>in the states.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Maybe becuse Sue has been in Sweden the last couple of days and got
>>>>used to our keyboard layout ? Then the UK layout *is* different...
>>>
>>>He's attempting to make a joke about a keyboard magically changing
>>>functionality simply because it is transported from .se to .uk.
>>
>>
>> I doubt that Sue received any pavlovian conditioning by using a Swedish
>> keyboard layout during her brief stay. I still don't understand how her
>> keyboard is any different for typing in the UK. There's little differ-
>> ence between the UK and US keyboards.
>>
>
>You are assuming, with the usual and customary risks thereof, that the
>keyboard in question was Sue's rather than a local keyboard she was
>using temporarily!
But at the airport? I'd assume a laptop there so why would be be
borrowing some other traveller's keyboard?
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"
http://tmesis.com/drat.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:38:33 GMT
From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG
Subject: Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days
Message-ID: <JhrOi.22$UF3.5@newsfe12.lga>
In article <R4Ur5tFVTjQd@eisner.encompasserve.org>, koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes:
>
>
>In article <8nbOi.46$gM.36@newsfe12.lga>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>>
>> Why does your keyboard change because you are in the UK? I've been to
>> the UK on numerous occasions and my keyboard still behaves like it does
>> in the states.
>
> Maybe the State Department won't let her take her laptop out of the
> country and she's using one of those airport kiosks.
Gawd fordid! I would NEVER EVER not even for all of the MONEY IN THE
WORLD use any public Micro$hit Weendoze box and enter in any access
information.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"
http://tmesis.com/drat.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 07:58:54 -0700
From: Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: European OpenVMS Technical Update Days
Message-ID: <1191855534.832236.72770@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>
On Oct 7, 8:16 am, Sue <susan_skonet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Newsgroup,
>
> I am sitting at Heathrow airport waiting for my flight to be called
> reflecting on the last two weeks in Europe.
>
> So I thought I would try and work with an English keyboard and try and
> give you an update.
>
> Every country has their own keyboard so its a series of mistakes for
> me but itdoes provide yet another excuse for bad spelling. \its funny
> but every year I think that the TUD's will not get better and they do.
> I have also noticed that VMS culture is very similar in every country
> even though there are small differences. I really wish that you had a
> chance to all meet each other it would be so exciting. We were in
> Germany, Netherlands and Sweden and were pretty much full in each
> location.
>
> If I am honest the team was excellent from HP and then partners in
> Germany Guy P was there from Bruden as well as Andre and then in
> \netherlands Colin B was there and then in Sweden Guy was back so
> there was a star studded speaker list not to mention blades
> sessions.
>
> We also went to a college in Germany where Andy G spoke there were
> 50-60 people including 10 customers, he spoke for 2 or so hours and
> they loved what he said. We have a VMS user there who worked with the
> user group to coordinate it was awesome.
>
> Gotta go sorry, you would have loved it.
> sue
Sue. This Canadian of German decent is glad to hear that you're still
promoting OpenVMS on the continent that produced Linux. Good luck to
you and your team.
p.s. Aren't they currently celebrating Oktoberfest in Munich? :-)
Neil Rieck
Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,
Ontario, Canada.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html
------------------------------
Date: 8 Oct 2007 08:20:44 -0500
From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)
Subject: Re: Java on Mac OS X (Was Re: Web-based VMS Que Monitor for Deathrow)
Message-ID: <g1ByBjmHCYoL@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In article <1191551484.740738.308740@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, maher_rj@hotmail.com writes:
>
> Doesn't Mac have the equivilent of "Windows Update" that can look
> after this stuff?
Mac OS X has Software Update, which is the equivalent of Windows
Update. It just finds fewer patches.
Lots of Java kit installs have the option to have the Java kit snoop
for Java updates, too, especially if you set up the kit to be the
JRE for the browser you use a lot.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:57:46 +0200
From: "P. Sture" <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch>
Subject: Re: Java on Mac OS X (Was Re: Web-based VMS Que Monitor for Deathrow)
Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-7E4D7E.16574608102007@mac.sture.ch>
In article <mdd8x6h5f4n.fsf@panix5.panix.com>,
Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:
> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
>
> > In article <1191551484.740738.308740@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> > maher_rj@hotmail.com writes:
>
> >> If you are using Tiger (Mac OS X 10.4.6?) or Leopard (U Bewt next one)
>
> > OS X 10.4.10 is Tiger.
>
> OS X.4 (that "X" is a Roman numeral) is Tiger. X.3 is Panther, X.2 is Jaguar,
> and I forget what X.1 was (Cougar, perhaps?). The minor edit number doesn't
> affect the nickname.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X
"OS X v10.4 is usually referred to by Apple and users as "Tiger", Mac OS
X 10.3 is called Panther, Mac OS X 10.2 is called Jaguar, Mac OS X 10.1
is called Puma, and Mac OS X is called Cheetah."
Apple may pronounce it as "Oh-Ess-Ten", but they forget to let us here
in Europe know; I've never heard of it called anything but "Oh-Ess-X"
--
Paul Sture
Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks:
http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:54:28 +0200
From: Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de>
Subject: Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever
Message-ID: <feck69$glr$01$1@news.t-online.com>
Ron Johnson schrieb:
>
> Hmmm. Why ever would an air traffic controller want an alarm to go
> off if a plane:
>
> 1. got too close to another plane,
> 2. was approaching at too steep an angle,
> 3. was approaching too low an angle,
> 4. was approaching too fast,
> 5. was approaching too slow,
> 6. got too near the end of the runway,
> 7. left it's designated flight path,
> 8. slowed down too much,
> 9. sped up too much,
> 10. indicated "running on fumes",
> 11. indicated "engine fire",
> 12. indicated "hijack alert",
> 13. indicated medical emergency,
> 14. etc, etc, etc, etc.
>
So you really think a control workstation should play
a different tune (ring tones come to mind) for each of these incidents ?
A couple of 'beep's which every X-terminal should be capable of
would be sufficient I guess.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 05:37:24 -0400
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Subject: Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever
Message-ID: <d12b0$4709fa57$cef8887a$2968@TEKSAVVY.COM>
Michael Kraemer wrote:
> So you really think a control workstation should play
> a different tune (ring tones come to mind) for each of these incidents ?
> A couple of 'beep's which every X-terminal should be capable of
> would be sufficient I guess.
CAE used to base its flight simulators on VMS.(They are long gone from
VMS). For them, sound is critical because in a cockpit, you have many
different alarm tones (and now voices) to alert of different situations.
Similarly, ATC controllers would need different alarm tones to provide
quicker awareness of what is going on. And in some cases, they may want
recorded voice alarms.
When VMS management decided that sound was no longer needed for VMS, one
prominent and well respected French contributor here announced how bad
this was for him and his ATC applications in France. He hasn't been
seen here since.
At a time when VMS' customer base is shrinking, VMS management's
decisions to allow each individual group of customers to leave because
of newly missing features in VMS is a sign that VMS management has
accepted the HP edict that VMS customers should be migrated off VMS
eventually.
I really feel sorry for people like Sue who are really trying to make
VMS succesful despite their bosses determination that VMS should only be
for existing customers with steps taken to progressively reduce the
customer base.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:08:18 -0700
From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company>
Subject: Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever
Message-ID: <op.tzvqr4sihv4qyg@murphus.linden>
On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 02:37:24 -0700, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> Michael Kraemer wrote:
>> So you really think a control workstation should play
>> a different tune (ring tones come to mind) for each of these incidents ?
>> A couple of 'beep's which every X-terminal should be capable of
>> would be sufficient I guess.
>
>
> CAE used to base its flight simulators on VMS.(They are long gone from
> VMS). For them, sound is critical because in a cockpit, you have many
> different alarm tones (and now voices) to alert of different situations.
Guess which high-level language they were written in.
>
> Similarly, ATC controllers would need different alarm tones to provide
> quicker awareness of what is going on. And in some cases, they may want
> recorded voice alarms.
>
> When VMS management decided that sound was no longer needed for VMS, one
> prominent and well respected French contributor here announced how bad
> this was for him and his ATC applications in France. He hasn't been
> seen here since.
>
> At a time when VMS' customer base is shrinking, VMS management's
> decisions to allow each individual group of customers to leave because
> of newly missing features in VMS is a sign that VMS management has
> accepted the HP edict that VMS customers should be migrated off VMS
> eventually.
>
> I really feel sorry for people like Sue who are really trying to make
> VMS succesful despite their bosses determination that VMS should only be
> for existing customers with steps taken to progressively reduce the
> customer base.
--
PL/I for OpenVMS
www.kednos.com
------------------------------
Date: 8 Oct 2007 08:29:21 -0500
From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)
Subject: Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever
Message-ID: <Xtf$vK3C5yMr@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In article <fea1k5$ql2$1@news3.zwoll1.ov.home.nl>, Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> writes:
> Sure, remember the Vax 2000? It was smaller than a desktop. A long time
> ago I worked with a VaxStation 3100 and more recently with a Alphaserver
> DS10 workstation.
I was so happy to move from a 2000 to a VLC. And I loaded Lotus/123,
2020, DECwrite, and a variety of other desktop applications that came
with limited licenses under VMS 6.0.
But Desktop VMS was a bad idea (couldn't cluster with non-Desktop),
and most of those desktop apps died.
> There used to be Itanium workstations, but not anymore it seems. So now
> you can't get a VMS workstation anymore. That's called progress I
> suppose ?
There have never been supported Itanium workstations sold as such,
but there are small Itanium systems with supported graphics boards
as options. And DECwindows is still supported.
But does anyone with such a beast know: can I use the traditional
DECwindows session mamanger with IA64, or do I have to use CDE?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:31:08 -0700
From: "David P. Murphy" <dpm_google@myths.com>
Subject: Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever
Message-ID: <1191857468.306034.293790@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>
On Oct 7, 7:28 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> I've got a VAXstation 3100M76 sitting here somewhere.
> Also a VAXstation 4000-96 which, for a VAX, was a snappy box.
Surely it would be easier for you to list the models
you *don't* own, or at least used to.
It's not called "the VaxCave" for nothing, you know!
ok
dpm
------------------------------
Date: 8 Oct 2007 15:42:42 GMT
From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Subject: Re: OT: one of the most informative Powerpoint presentations ever
Message-ID: <5mv1fiFf1j9mU1@mid.individual.net>
In article <1191857468.306034.293790@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>,
"David P. Murphy" <dpm_google@myths.com> writes:
> On Oct 7, 7:28 am, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>
>> I've got a VAXstation 3100M76 sitting here somewhere.
>> Also a VAXstation 4000-96 which, for a VAX, was a snappy box.
>
> Surely it would be easier for you to list the models
> you *don't* own, or at least used to.
>
> It's not called "the VaxCave" for nothing, you know!
Maybe we should all count up our systems and see just who has the most,
still functioning, DEC systems. Just off the top of my head I can come
up with at least 8 VAX and 7 PDP-11's. I had more, but I did just get
rid of some of my larger VAX and PDP-11 systems (out of necessity and
not by choice!!)
bill
--
Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves
bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton |
Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>
------------------------------
Date: 8 Oct 2007 08:00:57 -0500
From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)
Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Message-ID: <snGSAbR9UHXa@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In article <f26df$4705177c$cef8887a$16688@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:
>
> In my mind, a religious person has always been a compassionate person
> willing to share wealth, help others, live a good honest life and make
> sure to protect god's creations (wether humans or animals or the planet).
Religion has been used as an excuse to start wars, execute
individuals, hate others, kidnap children, and destroy just about
anything. There are plenty of examples of religious people at both
extreems of caring and killing, and everywhere in between.
> How come in the USA, religious persons are most often associated with
> the exact opposite ? right wing conservatives who want wars that kill
> hundreds of thousands of humans, help large business instead of helping
> the poor, don't care about polluting the planet etc ?
The far right makes the most noise about being religious and
patriotic. Those in the middle and to the left are often just as
religious and patriotic, or more so, but don't succede with the media
in getting that across.
This is in part because the far right has less tolerance for those of
other ilk, and no problem in making messages that turn others away.
You have to be more carefull in how you sound your trumpet when
you're trying to be inclusive.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Oct 2007 08:02:36 -0500
From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)
Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Message-ID: <TFF$4MWIgHKM@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In article <4705367C.9010302@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:
> Dwight Eisenhower was the last president I had any
> respect for.
You know, I'm a life-long Democrat and I didn't care for a lot of
things Regan did, nor how he did them, but I give him credit for
ending the cold war and respect for that.
Too bad W is leting the cold war restart.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Oct 2007 08:04:34 -0500
From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)
Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Message-ID: <XajkiFZ1k2Ch@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In article <1191585093.182678.129140@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, ultradwc@gmail.com writes:
>
> no Christian WANTS war, but sometimes it is necessary to stamp
> out evil ... just read your old testament ... what would have happened
> if Hitler would have been allowed to carry on w/o world war II ...
> use your head!
If you asked him, Hitler would have claimed to be a Christian.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:06:27 -0700
From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company>
Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Message-ID: <op.tzvqo1n6hv4qyg@murphus.linden>
On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 20:02:30 -0700, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
> This contradiction seems to indicate that North American Christians
> are more superstitious than they are religious.
Is there a difference?
--
PL/I for OpenVMS
www.kednos.com
------------------------------
Date: 8 Oct 2007 08:10:20 -0500
From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)
Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Message-ID: <kQoHu$7olfRv@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In article <f26df$4705177c$cef8887a$16688@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:
>
> How come in the USA, religious persons are most often associated with
> the exact opposite ? right wing conservatives who want wars that kill
> hundreds of thousands of humans, help large business instead of helping
> the poor, don't care about polluting the planet etc ?
i.e. why isn't conservation a conservative principle? Why did a
man get fired from being a conservative religious leader when he
tried to teach that we must take action on ecological issues to
protect God's Earth?
A recent study discussed in the Washington Post provides some
clue: conservatives tend to follow the notion that there is one
right answer and one right way for all issues, liberals tend to feel
that some issues are not so black-and-white.
So when something new comes along, even strong evidence that past
ideas were wrong or not all-encoimpassing, conservatives have a harder
time adding it to their beliefs. Pre-concieved notions rule the
conservative mind.
But the most liberal thinkers of 200 years ago are the champions of
the conservative cause, even though they don't always understand or
agree with the level of change those liberals fought for.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Oct 2007 08:11:43 -0500
From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)
Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Message-ID: <itiYl+8vrIPI@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In article <1191812550.483898.79040@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:
>
> True Christians are non-violent evangelists
Which church is speaking here? I'm sure some will debate the
definition of "True Christians".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:19:45 -0400
From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Message-ID: <470A2E71.4030902@comcast.net>
Bob Koehler wrote:
> In article <4705367C.9010302@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> writes:
>
>
>>Dwight Eisenhower was the last president I had any
>>respect for.
>
>
> You know, I'm a life-long Democrat and I didn't care for a lot of
> things Regan did, nor how he did them, but I give him credit for
> ending the cold war and respect for that.
>
> Too bad W is leting the cold war restart.
>
Too bad that Dubya allowed himself to be sucked into the Iraq quagmire.
Thank God that he can't succeed himself! I'm a lifelong Republican
but if Dick Cheney runs for President, I'll switch parties in a microsecond!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 09:27:00 -0400
From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Message-ID: <470A3024.1050903@comcast.net>
Bob Koehler wrote:
> In article <1191585093.182678.129140@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, ultradwc@gmail.com writes:
>
>>no Christian WANTS war, but sometimes it is necessary to stamp
>>out evil ... just read your old testament ... what would have happened
>>if Hitler would have been allowed to carry on w/o world war II ...
>>use your head!
>
>
> If you asked him, Hitler would have claimed to be a Christian.
>
How many people who claim to be Christian actually LIVE what Christ
TAUGHT? The history of Christianity suggests that its churches are at
least as interested in temporal power as they are in things of the
spirit! Somehow "Love thy neighbor" has become "We'll make the bastards
behave if it's the last thing we do!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:41:35 -0700
From: Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Message-ID: <1191850895.148767.266640@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>
On Oct 8, 9:11 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob
Koehler) wrote:
> In article <1191812550.483898.79...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Neil Rieck <n.ri...@sympatico.ca> writes:
>
>
>
> > True Christians are non-violent evangelists
>
> Which church is speaking here? I'm sure some will debate the
> definition of "True Christians".
Good point and that is the problem with many Christians today. I was
under the impression that Christiany was based upon "Love thy
neighbour", "Turn the other cheek", and superceeding the old
testament.
But somehow it has morphed into "The war in Iraq is still valid", "Now
let's attack Iran", "New York was attacked because it is too liberal",
"New Orleans was flooded because God hates the Mardi-Gras".
Now let me expand on the irrational nature of what many bible thumpers
believe:
1) God created the whole universe (a very impressive feat)
2) God is going to rapture-up only the designated believers before the
2nd coming
3) But this same all powerful god requires that "we" people of the
west need to police the middle east?
NSR
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 07:04:51 -0700
From: ultradwc@gmail.com
Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Message-ID: <1191852291.169798.177720@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>
On Oct 7, 11:02 pm, Neil Rieck <n.ri...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On Oct 4, 12:40 pm, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spam...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
> > Question:
>
> > In my mind, a religious person has always been a compassionate person
> > willing to share wealth, help others, live a good honest life and make
> > sure to protect god's creations (wether humans or animals or the planet).
>
> > How come in the USA, religious persons are most often associated with
> > the exact opposite ? right wing conservatives who want wars that kill
> > hundreds of thousands of humans, help large business instead of helping
> > the poor, don't care about polluting the planet etc ?
>
> > Or is it a case of religious persons in the USA supporting one party
> > that is 99% against what they believe in just because the agree with the
> > remaining 1% (abortion) ?
>
> True Christians are non-violent evangelists but many North American
> Christians are obsessed with escatology and other end-time nonsense.
> They think it is OK to destroy the Earth because Christ will return
> soon and make everything right.
you been following revelation lately?
1. when Israel becomes a nation again, the time of the
gentiles will be fulfilled ... 1948
2. He will gather the jews from the all over the world back,
and from the land of the north (Moscow, Russia) ... 1988
the Berlin wall falls as well as communism and since then
over 2 million jews have left for Israel ...
3. wars and rumors of wars ... world war I, II, korean, vietnam,
Iraq 1, Iraq 2, plus many others smaller ones ... Iran?
Israel and Syria?
4. children disrespectful to their elders ... happening ...
5. earthquakes in divers places ... happening and increasing ...
6. old roman empire reforms ... EU
7. a failing away from the church ... happening
when you see these signs, look up, for your redemption is near ...
Daniel, Isaiah and other prophecies in the bible confirm
revelation ...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:16:28 -0700
From: Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: still not convinced global warming a hoax?
Message-ID: <1191856588.646537.89280@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>
On Oct 8, 10:04 am, ultra...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Oct 7, 11:02 pm, Neil Rieck <n.ri...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
[...snip...]
> > True Christians are non-violent evangelists but many North American
> > Christians are obsessed with escatology and other end-time nonsense.
> > They think it is OK to destroy the Earth because Christ will return
> > soon and make everything right.
>
> you been following revelation lately?
>
> 1. when Israel becomes a nation again, the time of the
> gentiles will be fulfilled ... 1948
>
> 2. He will gather the jews from the all over the world back,
> and from the land of the north (Moscow, Russia) ... 1988
> the Berlin wall falls as well as communism and since then
> over 2 million jews have left for Israel ...
>
> 3. wars and rumors of wars ... world war I, II, korean, vietnam,
> Iraq 1, Iraq 2, plus many others smaller ones ... Iran?
> Israel and Syria?
>
> 4. children disrespectful to their elders ... happening ...
>
> 5. earthquakes in divers places ... happening and increasing ...
>
> 6. old roman empire reforms ... EU
>
> 7. a failing away from the church ... happening
>
> when you see these signs, look up, for your redemption is near ...
>
> Daniel, Isaiah and other prophecies in the bible confirm
> revelation ...
Bob you are entitled to your own beliefs but all the things you have
quoted are nothing more than embelished stories to control the masses.
Here is an alternative view of your judgment day:
<GOD_QUOTE>
Bob, I gave you a brain and then sent secular messengers (scientists
a.k.a. Magi) but you ignored them.
</GOD_QUOTE>
On a different note, you should also remember that the Jesus rebuked
the Sanhedrin and Pharasees who thought they were doing God's work but
were not. All people who "push religion" are not necessariliy doing
god's work.
NSR
------------------------------
End of INFO-VAX 2007.550
************************