INFO-VAX Wed, 12 Sep 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 497 Contents: Re: -SYSTEM-F-WRITLCK, write lock error Alphaserver 800 floor model front panel and doors Re: Copy/record to DVD's Re: DECServer 700 help Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Is this a bug or expected behaviour in C99? Need to perform a DNS lookup Re: Need to perform a DNS lookup Product Install, UNDO and recovery data (again!) Re: VMS License Plates Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 11 Sep 2007 20:28:26 +0200 From: peter@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) Subject: Re: -SYSTEM-F-WRITLCK, write lock error Message-ID: <46e6fa6a$1@news.langstoeger.at> In article <225d1$46e6d4d7$cef8887a$24432@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei writes: >Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER wrote: >> Think again. If PCSI does it this way, then how to do a VMS install? >> (eg. OpenVMS Alpha from the VMS CD) > >Does the CD use PRODUCT/PCSI to install VMS ? I would think it would be >a DCL script that uses BACKUP to create/populate the system disk with >all the quirks needed (aliases, boot block etc). It does use PRODUCT/PCSI with the /REMOTE qualifier (after setting up the neccessary logicals of course) How, do you think, will the PCSI database be populated with the products of the VMS installation (like CDSA. DECNET_OSI, DWMOTIF, SSL, TDC_RT, TCPIP, AVAIL_MAN, amm) if not with a real PCSI installation? -- Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER Network and OpenVMS system specialist E-mail peter@langstoeger.at A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:34:20 -0700 From: DanielDSnyder@gmail.com Subject: Alphaserver 800 floor model front panel and doors Message-ID: <1189553660.462113.20630@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> I have need of a front panel and drive cover doors for a floor model Alphaserver 800. Anyone have one for $$$ or trade? TIA, Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:27:53 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Copy/record to DVD's Message-ID: <46E74099.48AB213A@spam.comcast.net> Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann wrote: > > In article <+UEyOWJK56We@eisner.encompasserve.org>, frey@encompasserve.org > (Sharon) writes: > >I'm setting up a comfile that burns historical data to DVD on a customer's > >>sparkling new Integrity system. I don't know how much data they'll end > >up > >putting on each disk, but I'm pretty sure it will never be more than the > >4.7Gb > >stated on the DVD's I was testing with. I wrote the comfile to size the > >container disk at the (current) max DVD size. When I tested it, I think > >it ran > >out of room. Here is the error I got: > > > >%CDDVD-I-SKEY, Unit sense key 05 > >-CDDVD-I-SKEYILLREQ, illegal request sense key > >%CDDVD-I-SKEYASCASCQ, SKey: 05, ASC: 21, ASCQ: 00 > >%CDDVD-I-ASC2100, logical block address out of range error detected > >%CDDVD-E-WRTERR, disk write or disk full error; unable to complete write > >-CDDVD-W-BADADD, bad write address > >Synchronizing with output device cache > >Closing the open track > >Operation permitted 480 seconds for completion > >Closing the open session > >Operation permitted 480 seconds for completion > >Unable to complete processing > >%CDDVD-W-BADADD, bad write address > > > >First question: is this really saying it ran out of room on the disk? > >It's a > >little obscured by complaints about "sense key". > > > >Second question, what is the largest container file I can burn to DVD? I > >>obviously miscalculated it. Here is my comfile: > > > >$ SET NOON > >$ SAY :== WRITE SYS$OUTPUT > >$ SAY "Beginning HDMP DVD Burn." > >$! > >$LOADNEWCD: > >$ ON CONTROL_Y THEN GOTO EXIT > >$ SAY "" > >$ SAY "Please load a NEW blank DVD in the drive on > >''f$getsyi("nodename")'..." > >$ INQUIRE DUMMY "Press Enter to continue. Control/Y to exit" > >$! > >$REUSE_DVD_CONTAINER: > >$ IF F$GETDVI("$3$LDA1:","EXISTS") > >$ THEN > >$ DISMOUNT $3$LDA1: > >$ LD DISCONNECT $3$LDA1: > >$ ENDIF > >$ SAY "Preparing files to copy." > >$ LD CREATE/SIZE=10049000 $1$DGA5:[HDMP]HDMP_CONTAINER.DSK > >$ LD CONNECT $1$DGA5:[HDMP]HDMP_CONTAINER.DSK LDA1 > >$ INITIALIZE $3$LDA1: HDMPDVD > >$ MOUNT $3$LDA1: HDMPDVD > >$! > >$COPY_FILES_TO_HDMP_CONTAINER: > >$ SAY "" > >$ SAY "Copying files from source directory to DVD container..." > >(copying files into container file)... > >$! > >$BURN_FILES_TO_DVD: > >$ SAY "" > >$ SAY "Starting to burn DVD..." > >$ MOUNT/OVER=ID $3$DNA0: > >$ COPY/RECORDABLE/FORMAT/VERIFY $3$LDA1: $3$DNA0: > >$ DISMOUNT $3$LDA1: > >$ LD DISCONNECT LDA1 > >$! > >$ EXIT > > > > - Sharon > >"Gravity... is a harsh mistress!" > > > > The capacity of a DVD depends on the medium. > > You'll see different numbers of the same type of media. > > I can write a small program that tells you this number. > I will post the source code if there are enough people > who are interested. Count me in. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:26:41 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: DECServer 700 help Message-ID: <46E74051.81F96AE1@spam.comcast.net> Albrecht Schlosser wrote: > > David J Dachtera wrote: > > [...] > > Parity: None Signal Control: Disabled > > Stop Bits: Dynamic Signal Select: CTS-DSR-RTS-DTR > > [...] > > > > That is, hardware flow control. > > No, that's hardware flow control DISABLED (Signal Control: Disabled). > > Signal select ... means that there are different pin layouts > (software) selectable, and CTS-DSR-RTS-DTR is the configured one. The point remains, however, that these are in conflict with the device's port configuration as indicated by the OP. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: 11 Sep 2007 13:52:22 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: In article <46E6A889.7070806@comcast.net>, "Richard B. Gilbert" writes: > > ISTR a story in the Philadelphia Inquirer about an incident in which > someone was hit by such a bullet and injured or killed. Whether or not > someone has actually been killed this way, firing your rifle into the > air is NOT a very good idea. I fully agree. I'm one of many who think that most of the damage and injuries sustained in Bhagdad early in the US attacks in both Gulf wars were primarily due to falling munition shot randomly into the might sky after US stealth aircraft had left the area. I don't want an anti-aircraft projectile falling on me at any speed, nor a flood of bullet from small arms. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Sep 2007 13:53:46 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: In article , Ron Johnson writes: > > Because it's a derivative of the velocity vector? > Mathematically, yes. Any change to the velocity (a vector) requires a force and is an acceleration. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 13:22:54 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: <1189542174.523910.242790@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com> On Sep 11, 8:39 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <46e5b266$0$21929$157c6...@dreader1.cybercity.dk>, "Dr. Dweeb" writes: > > > I read once that one person gets "shot" this way every New Year in LA. I > > forget where, sorry. Maybe an urban legend, but 120mph bit of lead to the > > head would probably be fatal. > > Mythbusters did an episode where they showed such projectiles fall > at a non-lethal velocity. Who came up with 120 mph as the terminal > velocity, and which projectile did they use? Just looked it up on a few sites, and they all agree that the actual terminal velocity of a .30 cal bullet will be between 300 - 400 fps which converts to approx 204 - 272 mph (depending on weight and shape.) A .22 cal's terminal velocity will be lower and a large cal higher, and a 1000 lb 12" shell would return at 1300 - 1400 fps -- around 900 mph! The MythBuster's concluded the "would a bullet fired up kill someone" myth as confirmed, probable and busted, depending on the angle from which it is fired -- this is one of the few myths (maybe the only) to which they've ever given all three ratings. The 120 mph was just repeated from someones post and is too low. 120 mph is close to what a sky-diver will achieve with limbs extended, but I wouldn't want one of those falling on my head, either. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:52:36 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: <1189558356.277323.147860@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Sep 11, 9:49 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <1189473666.128372.232...@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > > > > > Well, do we really know that yet? > > May depend on whether you follow the theories similar to Hawking's > early work or later work. You trimmed my post a little too much. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:53:31 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: <1189558411.809336.160500@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> On Sep 11, 9:53 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <1189473887.879431.82...@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > > > > > Particles are accelerated by electric fields. They are focused by > > magnetic fields. > > Yes, you can certinaly design an ion engine to work that way. Quite > similar to a cathode ray tube someone else mentioned. > > > The Lorentz force due to the magnetic field is > > perpendicular to the path of the particle and hence can only change > > its direction. > > A change of direction is acceleration. > > It's what you do with the different accelerations that allows you > to engineer an engine. I meant acceleration as in increase in speed. Context, Bob, ... context. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:55:21 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Here's one for Bob (hope it makes your head spin) Message-ID: <1189558521.915946.54960@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Sep 11, 9:59 am, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote: > In article <1189474247.030028.297...@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > > > > > Say what? No signal can do that, and hence no material thing either. > > Whenever we hear of these things there is always a catch, no? > > Sorry, but experiements demonstrrated otherwise more than a decade > ago. Hints of this were popping up in theories back when I was > in grad school. Can you please give an example or reference? > > > > > I don't see why they aren't. Besides, these forces are extremely short > > range so it is extremely unlikely to be useful to propel space ships. > > You can't even build a spaceship using only these forces, let alone > a passenger. So for current day engineering they're not much use. > > > > > There are some "things" that can go faster than light. Consider a wave > > approaching the shore at a very shallow angle. > > There are a lot of things one can concoct where something "goes" > faster than the speed of light. Mass is not one of them. That was my point. AEF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:14:26 +1000 From: Jim Duff Subject: Is this a bug or expected behaviour in C99? Message-ID: <46e71344@dnews.tpgi.com.au> $ cc/version HP C V7.1-015 on OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 $ create test.c $ deck #include #include #define TEST(a, b, ...) test (a, b, ##__VA_ARGS__) static void test (int a, int b, ...) { return; } int main (void) { TEST (1,2,3); TEST (1,2); } $ eod $ cc test.c TEST (1,2); .............^ %CC-W-TOOFEWACTUALS, Too few actual parameters in the invocation of the macro "T EST". at line number 14 in file MY_DISK:[000000]TEST.C;1 TEST (1,2); ....^ %CC-E-BADEXPR, Invalid expression. at line number 14 in file MY_DISK:[000000]TEST.C;1 $ I understand the TOOFEWACTUALS warning. The documentation says that the arguments not supplied will be given a null value. However, it appears that we are being literal here ;-) and the argument not supplied is really null, not NULL, and we end up with code after the expansion that is test (1, 2, ); which produces the BADEXPR error. Questions: Is my code legal C99? If so, is this expected compiler behaviour, or is it a bug? I can't find anything in the 7.3/7.2 release notes (yes, I'm aware I'm on an old compiler) that seems to address this. Any help appreciated. Jim. -- www.eight-cubed.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:08:45 -0700 From: davef@tsoft-inc.com Subject: Need to perform a DNS lookup Message-ID: <1189559325.807606.93800@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> I'm sure there must be plenty of information on this topic, but I'm unable to find any, so I'm asking for a bit of help. What i want to do, from a program, is supply a URL, and get back an IP address. Berically the same thing NSLOOKUP does, not as a utility, but from within a program. I've got to believe that VMS has a library routine to do this, can't find it. Can't find anything in the TCP/IP documentation, been searching the programming manual. Didn't find much in the freeware either, and that surprised me. Could someone give me a pointer to some documentation, or existing code? If an example, one in BASIC would help, since I seem to become less capable each day. And I know, ask here, get an answer here, but I don't have newsgroup access, and would appriciate an E-Mail. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:15:38 -0500 (CDT) From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) Subject: Re: Need to perform a DNS lookup Message-ID: <07091121153811_20200296@antinode.org> From: davef@tsoft-inc.com > What i want to do, from a program, is supply a URL, and get back an IP > address. Berically the same thing NSLOOKUP does, not as a utility, > but from within a program. You mean the host-name part of an URL? > I've got to believe that VMS has a library routine to do this, can't > find it. Can't find anything in the TCP/IP documentation, been > searching the programming manual. Didn't find much in the freeware > either, and that surprised me. You mean gethostbyname()? http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82final/6529/6529pro_007.html#access_bind_sec You look at wget or curl? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818 Saint Paul MN 55105-2547 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:23:31 -0700 From: Ken Fairfield Subject: Product Install, UNDO and recovery data (again!) Message-ID: <5kp4e3F4snqaU1@mid.individual.net> At the end of 2005 and early in 2006, there were about 3 threads asking about PCSI and deletion of recovery data. In particular, doing a PRODUCT INSTALL leads to a message similar to this: --------------------------------------------------------------------- * If you continue, recovery data for the patches listed above will be deleted. * The deletion of recovery data does not affect the installation status of * patches applied to products that are not participating in this operation. * However, continuing with this operation prevents you from uninstalling * these patches at a future time by use of the PRODUCT UNDO PATCH command. Do you want to continue? [NO] y --------------------------------------------------------------------- I *think* the conclusion from those discussions, particularly John Santos' post(s), was that (1) when doing PROCICT INSTALL of ECOs/patches, the recovery data is, or can be, saved and the patch backed out with a PRODUCT UNDO command; and (2) that a PRODUCT INSTALL of some product (not a patch) will delete the recovery data. My questions are: a) Is this summary pretty much correct? b) It doesn't matter if the patches are VMS patches and the product is something unrelated (Fortran for example), the VMS recovery data will *still* be deleted? I've run into this trying to install DFU 3.2 on VMS/Alpha 7.3-2 and find I cannot avoid the warning no matter what combination of /SAVE, /NOSAVE, etc., qualifiers I use. Just a sanity check. Thanks, Ken -- Ken & Ann Fairfield What: Ken dot And dot Ann Where: Gmail dot Com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:11:26 -0700 From: Rich Jordan Subject: Re: VMS License Plates Message-ID: <1189552286.517410.42420@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> On Sep 9, 7:21 pm, JF Mezei wrote: > VMS, the black sheep in the HP family. > > VMS, the child HP is ashamed of and won't include in its marketing. > > VMS: HP's problem child since it makes its other products look bad. > > VMS, the quiet operating system. > > VMS: No worries mate ! (our australian friends would understand this) > > Where Windows dreams to be in 10 years. > > Microsoft couldn't even copy it right. > > You know VMS is high quality. (*) > > (*) A lot of people have heard VMS is a high quality reliable OS with > good documentation, but don't consider it because they don't know/think > their app can run on it. VMS; anything else is just compensation for your shortcomings VMS; Safe data means more than slick graphics ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:41:29 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Message-ID: <97068$46e6e163$cef8887a$25411@TEKSAVVY.COM> http://www.cio.com/article/135700/Seven_Wonders_of_the_IT_World/7 It lists Linux as one of the 7 wonders of the IT world. It mentions 8.2 million lines of code and growing at 10% per year, and 2.89 changes to the kernel per hour. Is this really sustainable ? Perhaps if VMS were allowed to be marketed, they could use arguments such as "stable code base" and "discipline in code management" to convince CIOs that it is better to go with VMS than going with the new kid on the block that is still going through puberty with ackward growth spurts. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:46:51 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Message-ID: On 09/11/07 13:41, JF Mezei wrote: > http://www.cio.com/article/135700/Seven_Wonders_of_the_IT_World/7 > > It lists Linux as one of the 7 wonders of the IT world. It mentions 8.2 > million lines of code and growing at 10% per year, and 2.89 changes to > the kernel per hour. > > Is this really sustainable ? Absolutely. (Well, close enough to absolutely.) Most of the changes are new drivers, better drivers, better support for niche CPUs, etc. The highly modular and "pluginable" architecture (hopefully) makes most changes isolated from one another. > Perhaps if VMS were allowed to be marketed, they could use arguments > such as "stable code base" Stable or ossified? > and "discipline in code management" to Well that's true. Or at least it used to be. Starting 18-24 months ago, the kernel was put into a sccs. Now "git" lets people check out and merge back sub-trees in a distributed manner. > convince CIOs that it is better to go with VMS than going with the new > kid on the block that is still going through puberty with ackward growth > spurts. "Awkward growth spurts" or dynamic adjustments to modern hardware? -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:22:16 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 11:41:29 -0700, JF Mezei = wrote: > http://www.cio.com/article/135700/Seven_Wonders_of_the_IT_World/7 > > It lists Linux as one of the 7 wonders of the IT world. It mentions 8.= 2 = > million lines of code and growing at 10% per year, and 2.89 changes to= = > the kernel per hour. > > Is this really sustainable ? > > Perhaps if VMS were allowed to be marketed, they could use arguments = > such as "stable code base" and "discipline in code management" to = > convince CIOs that it is better to go with VMS than going with the new= = > kid on the block that is still going through puberty with ackward grow= th = > spurts. I just calculated at that rate it will be as big as VMS in 14 + years (didn't have a calculator) HAFNER> pli howlong HAFNER> link howlong HAFNER> run howlong Enter growth ratemultiple: 0.1 4 14.5451 HowLong: proc options(main,ident('V1.0')); %include $ssdef; %include $stsdef; %include $rmsdef; %include lib$get_foreign; %include lib$get_symbol; dcl Arg1 char(11); dcl command_line char(80) varying; dcl prompt_flag bit(32) aligned init('0'b); dcl (i,j,t) fixed bin(31); dcl status fixed bin(31); dcl (rate,multiple) fixed decimal(10,4); ON error snap system; Again: sts$value =3D lib$get_foreign(command_line, 'Enter growth = ratemultiple : ',,prompt_flag); if ^sts$success then signal vaxcondition(sts$value); command_line =3D ltrim(command_line, ' '); /* string is space followed by TAB /* if you wanted / as a separator then the string would be '/' */ /* put skip list('Command ',command_line);*/ i =3D search(command_line,' '); /* put skip list('i =3D ',i); */ Rate =3D decimal(substr(command_line,1,i-1),10,4); Multiple =3D decimal(rtrim(ltrim(substr(command_line,i+1),' = = ')),10,4 ); put skip edit(divide( log10(multiple),log10(1.0+rate),10)) = (F(10,4)); end HowLong; -- = PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:35:15 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Message-ID: On 09/11/07 18:22, Tom Linden wrote: > On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 11:41:29 -0700, JF Mezei > wrote: > >> http://www.cio.com/article/135700/Seven_Wonders_of_the_IT_World/7 >> >> It lists Linux as one of the 7 wonders of the IT world. It mentions >> 8.2 million lines of code and growing at 10% per year, and 2.89 >> changes to the kernel per hour. >> >> Is this really sustainable ? >> >> Perhaps if VMS were allowed to be marketed, they could use arguments >> such as "stable code base" and "discipline in code management" to >> convince CIOs that it is better to go with VMS than going with the new >> kid on the block that is still going through puberty with ackward >> growth spurts. > > > I just calculated at that rate it will be as big as VMS in 14 + years > (didn't have a calculator) What part of VMS did you look at? The Whole Thing? -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:11:52 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Will Linux bloat itself out of existance ? Message-ID: On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:35:15 -0700, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 09/11/07 18:22, Tom Linden wrote: >> On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 11:41:29 -0700, JF Mezei >> wrote: >> >>> http://www.cio.com/article/135700/Seven_Wonders_of_the_IT_World/7 >>> >>> It lists Linux as one of the 7 wonders of the IT world. It mentions >>> 8.2 million lines of code and growing at 10% per year, and 2.89 >>> changes to the kernel per hour. >>> >>> Is this really sustainable ? >>> >>> Perhaps if VMS were allowed to be marketed, they could use arguments >>> such as "stable code base" and "discipline in code management" to >>> convince CIOs that it is better to go with VMS than going with the new >>> kid on the block that is still going through puberty with ackward >>> growth spurts. >> >> >> I just calculated at that rate it will be as big as VMS in 14 + years >> (didn't have a calculator) > > What part of VMS did you look at? The Whole Thing? > Just remember a quiz by Hoff and it would be about 4 times as large, I guess that was all of VMS -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.497 ************************