INFO-VAX Sun, 02 Sep 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 481 Contents: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Re: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Re: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Re: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Re: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Re: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Re: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Re: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Re: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Re: DEC 3000/800 AXP boot problem Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist If PL/1 is the king of languages... Re: If PL/1 is the king of languages... Recommended HP COBOL way to exit a paragraph or perform early? Re: Recommended HP COBOL way to exit a paragraph or perform early? RE: Recommended HP COBOL way to exit a paragraph or perform early? Re: Recommended HP COBOL way to exit a paragraph or perform early? Re: Recommended HP COBOL way to exit a paragraph or perform early? Re: Recommended HP COBOL way to exit a paragraph or perform early? Re: Recommended HP COBOL way to exit a paragraph or perform early? Re: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect Re: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect Re: VMS License Plates Re: VMS License Plates Re: VMS License Plates ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:11:12 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Message-ID: On 09/01/07 05:48, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <8q6Ci.19183$Zk5.16187@newsfe23.lga>, Ron Johnson writes: >> >> On 08/31/07 21:13, Main, Kerry wrote: >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net] >>>> Sent: August 31, 2007 12:20 PM >>>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >>>> Subject: RE: VMS License Plates >>>> >>>> Of course there are some of us who will display a license plate >>>> (or other trinket) that says VMS but not one that says OpenVMS. >>>> >>>> I doubt there are any of the reverse persuasion. >>>> >>>> I suppose that means a chance to lower the production cost by adding >>>> three letters. >>> Well, something to consider about VMS vs. OpenVMS is that there are now other vendor >>> products called VMS: >>> >>> http://www.networkworld.com/reviews/2002/0204rev.html >> That's a copyright violation if I every heard one. > > How is it a _copyright_ violation? What was said or printed in the > article that is not "fair use" information possibly from some Cisco > features documentation? Not violated by NetworkWorld, but by Cisco. Certainly DEC copyrighted "VMS". But then... can you copyright acronyms? Of course, if HP kept VMS in computer people's minds as anything but a dead product, Cisco would not have used that acronym... -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 13:22:17 -0700 From: Doug Phillips Subject: Re: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Message-ID: <1188678137.066910.264510@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com> On Sep 1, 3:11 pm, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 09/01/07 05:48, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > > > > > In article <8q6Ci.19183$Zk5.16...@newsfe23.lga>, Ron Johnson writes: > > >> On 08/31/07 21:13, Main, Kerry wrote: > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgal...@SpamCop.net] > >>>> Sent: August 31, 2007 12:20 PM > >>>> To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com > >>>> Subject: RE: VMS License Plates > > >>>> Of course there are some of us who will display a license plate > >>>> (or other trinket) that says VMS but not one that says OpenVMS. > > >>>> I doubt there are any of the reverse persuasion. > > >>>> I suppose that means a chance to lower the production cost by adding > >>>> three letters. > >>> Well, something to consider about VMS vs. OpenVMS is that there are now other vendor > >>> products called VMS: > > >>>http://www.networkworld.com/reviews/2002/0204rev.html > >> That's a copyright violation if I every heard one. > > > How is it a _copyright_ violation? What was said or printed in the > > article that is not "fair use" information possibly from some Cisco > > features documentation? > > Not violated by NetworkWorld, but by Cisco. Certainly DEC > copyrighted "VMS". > > But then... can you copyright acronyms? > > Of course, if HP kept VMS in computer people's minds as anything but > a dead product, Cisco would not have used that acronym... > VMS is a trademark. Here's link to the gov's trademark office and a list of active VMS trademarks. http://preview.tinyurl.com/2swfv2 Trademark and Copyright are not the same thing. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Sep 2007 15:21:53 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Message-ID: In article , Ron Johnson writes: > On 09/01/07 05:48, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> In article <8q6Ci.19183$Zk5.16187@newsfe23.lga>, Ron Johnson writes: >>> That's a copyright violation if I every heard one. >> >> How is it a _copyright_ violation? What was said or printed in the >> article that is not "fair use" information possibly from some Cisco >> features documentation? > > Not violated by NetworkWorld, but by Cisco. Certainly DEC > copyrighted "VMS". > > But then... can you copyright acronyms? Names like VMS cannot be copyrighted. They can be Trademarked, at which point the question is whether the two VMS's are in the same field. It is clear that computers and vacuum cleaners are not the same field. The difference between what the two VMS's do is not so clear (as to whether they are separate fields or the same one). But when DEC switched to "OpenVMS" did they stop protecting their "VMS" trademark... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 20:53:15 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Message-ID: <%ikCi.54$zv7.32@newsfe12.lga> In article , Ron Johnson writes: > > >On 09/01/07 05:48, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> In article <8q6Ci.19183$Zk5.16187@newsfe23.lga>, Ron Johnson writes: >>> >>> On 08/31/07 21:13, Main, Kerry wrote: >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net] >>>>> Sent: August 31, 2007 12:20 PM >>>>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >>>>> Subject: RE: VMS License Plates >>>>> >>>>> Of course there are some of us who will display a license plate >>>>> (or other trinket) that says VMS but not one that says OpenVMS. >>>>> >>>>> I doubt there are any of the reverse persuasion. >>>>> >>>>> I suppose that means a chance to lower the production cost by adding >>>>> three letters. >>>> Well, something to consider about VMS vs. OpenVMS is that there are now other vendor >>>> products called VMS: >>>> >>>> http://www.networkworld.com/reviews/2002/0204rev.html >>> That's a copyright violation if I every heard one. >> >> How is it a _copyright_ violation? What was said or printed in the >> article that is not "fair use" information possibly from some Cisco >> features documentation? > >Not violated by NetworkWorld, but by Cisco. Certainly DEC >copyrighted "VMS". > >But then... can you copyright acronyms? It would have been a trademark, not copyright! USC 17 discusses Copyright. USC 35 concerns Trademarks. >Of course, if HP kept VMS in computer people's minds as anything but >a dead product, Cisco would not have used that acronym... VMS was a trademark of d|i|g|i|t|a|l. I don't know if it was registered. I would think that HP would have acquired all trademarks held originally by those that coined them when they acquired the remnants of d|i|g|i|t|a|l with the Compaq merger. Typically, using a trademark in a situation where is can be diluted is an issue of law. Using VMS for another software product could certainly be a considered a dilution, whereas using VMS for the Voluntary Milking System in the dairy biz may not. IANACSFSPOSL, do not take this as legal advice. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" http://tmesis.com/drat.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:54:34 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Message-ID: On 09/01/07 15:22, Doug Phillips wrote: > On Sep 1, 3:11 pm, Ron Johnson wrote: >> On 09/01/07 05:48, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> >> >> >>> In article <8q6Ci.19183$Zk5.16...@newsfe23.lga>, Ron Johnson writes: >>>> On 08/31/07 21:13, Main, Kerry wrote: >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgal...@SpamCop.net] >>>>>> Sent: August 31, 2007 12:20 PM >>>>>> To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com >>>>>> Subject: RE: VMS License Plates >>>>>> Of course there are some of us who will display a license plate >>>>>> (or other trinket) that says VMS but not one that says OpenVMS. >>>>>> I doubt there are any of the reverse persuasion. >>>>>> I suppose that means a chance to lower the production cost by adding >>>>>> three letters. >>>>> Well, something to consider about VMS vs. OpenVMS is that there are now other vendor >>>>> products called VMS: >>>>> http://www.networkworld.com/reviews/2002/0204rev.html >>>> That's a copyright violation if I every heard one. >>> How is it a _copyright_ violation? What was said or printed in the >>> article that is not "fair use" information possibly from some Cisco >>> features documentation? >> Not violated by NetworkWorld, but by Cisco. Certainly DEC >> copyrighted "VMS". >> >> But then... can you copyright acronyms? >> >> Of course, if HP kept VMS in computer people's minds as anything but >> a dead product, Cisco would not have used that acronym... >> > > VMS is a trademark. Here's link to the gov's trademark office and a > list of active VMS trademarks. > > http://preview.tinyurl.com/2swfv2 Here's a really interesting one: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=nhp0hj.4.2 > Trademark and Copyright are not the same thing. I should have known that. Thanks. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: 1 Sep 2007 18:52:47 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Message-ID: In article <1188678137.066910.264510@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>, Doug Phillips writes: > VMS is a trademark. Here's link to the gov's trademark office and a > list of active VMS trademarks. > > http://preview.tinyurl.com/2swfv2 That gives me a government page saying: This search session has expired. Please start a search session again by clicking on the TRADEMARK icon, if you wish to continue. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Sep 2007 18:58:33 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Message-ID: In article , Ron Johnson writes: > Here's a really interesting one: > http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=nhp0hj.4.2 Yes, it is another: This search session has expired. Please start a search session again by clicking on the TRADEMARK icon, if you wish to continue. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 00:34:01 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Message-ID: In article , Ron Johnson writes: >On 09/01/07 05:48, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> In article <8q6Ci.19183$Zk5.16187@newsfe23.lga>, Ron Johnson writes: >>> >>> On 08/31/07 21:13, Main, Kerry wrote: >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Larry Kilgallen [mailto:Kilgallen@SpamCop.net] >>>>> Sent: August 31, 2007 12:20 PM >>>>> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com >>>>> Subject: RE: VMS License Plates >>>>> >>>>> Of course there are some of us who will display a license plate >>>>> (or other trinket) that says VMS but not one that says OpenVMS. >>>>> >>>>> I doubt there are any of the reverse persuasion. >>>>> >>>>> I suppose that means a chance to lower the production cost by adding >>>>> three letters. >>>> Well, something to consider about VMS vs. OpenVMS is that there are now other vendor >>>> products called VMS: >>>> >>>> http://www.networkworld.com/reviews/2002/0204rev.html >>> That's a copyright violation if I every heard one. >> >> How is it a _copyright_ violation? What was said or printed in the >> article that is not "fair use" information possibly from some Cisco >> features documentation? > >Not violated by NetworkWorld, but by Cisco. Certainly DEC >copyrighted "VMS". > >But then... can you copyright acronyms? > I think you probably meant to refer to the VMS trademark rather than copyright. The source code of the operating system or it's documentation are copyrighted but the name should be a trademark. Unfortunately the owners of VMS decided to rebrand it as OpenVMS and have not defended the trademark on the older name ie VMS. Having said that I'm not even sure if HP has registered OpenVMS as a trademark. Looking at a few of the VMS docs online I can find lots of mention of other peoples trademarks but no mention at all of OpenVMS being a registered trademark of HP eg from http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83final/6677/6677PRO.HTML " Intel and Itanium are registered trademarks of Intel Corporation or its subsidiaries in the United States and other countries. Java is a US trademark of Sun Microsystems, Inc. Oracle is a US registered trademark of Oracle Corporation, Redwood City, California. OSF and Motif are trademarks of The Open Group in the US and other countries, and UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group. Microsoft, Windows, Windows NT, and MS Windows are US registered trademarks of Microsoft Corporation. X/Open is a registered trademark, and the X device is a trademark of X/Open Company Ltd. in the UK and other countries. " David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >Of course, if HP kept VMS in computer people's minds as anything but >a dead product, Cisco would not have used that acronym... > >-- >Ron Johnson, Jr. >Jefferson LA USA > >Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. >Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 00:41:18 +0000 (UTC) From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: Copyrightability? (was Re: VMS License Plates) Message-ID: In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >In article , Ron Johnson writes: >> On 09/01/07 05:48, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >>> In article <8q6Ci.19183$Zk5.16187@newsfe23.lga>, Ron Johnson writes: > >>>> That's a copyright violation if I every heard one. >>> >>> How is it a _copyright_ violation? What was said or printed in the >>> article that is not "fair use" information possibly from some Cisco >>> features documentation? >> >> Not violated by NetworkWorld, but by Cisco. Certainly DEC >> copyrighted "VMS". >> >> But then... can you copyright acronyms? > >Names like VMS cannot be copyrighted. They can be Trademarked, at >which point the question is whether the two VMS's are in the same >field. It is clear that computers and vacuum cleaners are not the >same field. Though that of course was with respect to VAX rather than VMS. David Webb Security team leader CCSS Middlesex University >The difference between what the two VMS's do is not so >clear (as to whether they are separate fields or the same one). > >But when DEC switched to "OpenVMS" did they stop protecting their >"VMS" trademark... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:02:32 -0700 From: urbancamo Subject: Re: DEC 3000/800 AXP boot problem Message-ID: <1188684152.832966.181050@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com> I put the PSU back together as is and I got the scope on the '800 this evening. Findings: 1. The 5V line is running at 5.15V 2. The 3.45V line is running at 3.45V 3. The ripple on both 5V and 3.45V lines is approx. 5mv at about 30 KHz I've attached the oscilloscope and meter images (nice to have a PC based scope!) Observations: Both 5V and 3.45V lines appear to be pretty well DC regulated. I wouldn't have thought that 5mv of a.c. ripple would cause any serious problems. I did a finger test on the 3.45v regulator components and couldn't find anything 'hot' - the large heatsink to which the regulators is attached gets slightly warm I did a finger test on the CPU heatsink and the surrounding large PLCCs and these get hot - almost too hot to touch. Conclusions: Maybe the fans are worn and not pulling the air through the box quick enough. As I mentioned, they spin up quite high and then settle down to a low tick over. Maybe the fan regulation isn't working correctly - I've not noticed the fans speed up once the box has been on for a while. I'm not sure where I would look for a temperature sensor. I can ask on the groups and see if anyone knows, but it'll probably be up to me to find out. One obvious place would be under the main CPU - do you think this would be integrated into the main board layout and then come out to one of the PSU connectors. I can measure the voltage on the fan circuit and quite possibly trace the connection back to the PSU and see if I can work out how it is regulated. It might be regulated on power load instead? Temperature would seem more sensible however. I noticed that with the lid off the box it did seem to be quite stable - I didn't really have long enough to come to any firm conclusions. I guess running it with a desk fan pointing at the main circuit board for a while might give an idea. What do you recon? The 5V line is a little high but I wouldn't have thought that in itself would cause a problem. The PSU is rated at 750W so it may be that fully loaded the 5V line would dip to 5V from 5.15V. Cheers for the help, Mark. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:05:06 GMT From: "Colin Butcher" Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Message-ID: Indeed they did - and yes, I'd like to see it back as well. -- Cheers, Colin. Legacy = Stuff that works properly! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:23:14 GMT From: "Robert Jarratt" Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Message-ID: "Robert Jarratt" wrote in message news:fdGAi.16027$ka7.11825@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net... > > I made a lot of progress thanks to this posting. I thought that all OPCOM > messages were already going to the console, but they weren't. It turned > out that after running DSVCONFIG.COM I needed to copy the SYS from > SYS$COMMON:[DECSERVER] to SYS$COMMON:[MOM$SYSTEM]. I am not clear why > DSVCONFIG did not copy it there for me or point MOP to the right location. > > Thanks > > Rob > In case anyone is interested, I have described the whole processing of getting my hobbyist DECserver 200/MC up and running here: http://robjarratt.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!FC758A5A91B91301!131.entry Regards Rob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 01:38:42 GMT From: "John E. Malmberg" Subject: Re: DECnet-Plus for a hobbyist Message-ID: Robert Jarratt wrote: > > In case anyone is interested, I have described the whole processing of > getting my hobbyist DECserver 200/MC up and running here: > > http://robjarratt.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!FC758A5A91B91301!131.entry I see that you missed my post in the thread about the DECserver. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:12:23 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: If PL/1 is the king of languages... Message-ID: ... why is the web site powered by not-the-king-of-languages? http://www.kednos.com/kednos/Welcome http://www.kednos.com/pli/king.pdf -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 14:47:25 +0930 From: Mark Daniel Subject: Re: If PL/1 is the king of languages... Message-ID: <13dkhs9elh4l70a@corp.supernews.com> Ron Johnson wrote: > ... why is the web site powered by not-the-king-of-languages? Same reason it's powered by not-COBOL, not-Pascal, not-Fortran ... > http://www.kednos.com/kednos/Welcome > http://www.kednos.com/pli/king.pdf Lighten-up (or is that liten-up? I don't have a Webster's); you know where he's coming from ;-) -- Sonja: Oh don't, Boris, please. Sex without love is an empty experience. Boris: Yes, but as empty experiences go, it's one of the best. [Woody Allen; Love and Death] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 17:44:37 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: Recommended HP COBOL way to exit a paragraph or perform early? Message-ID: <001601c7ece9$ad796e20$086c4a60$@com> I'm a little puzzled what the recommended method here is for this case (see sample code snippet below)... use a goto? Some System call? Embed everything in a deep nesting of Ifs? In this sample, the code is being ran from a performed paragraph. There are three file writes necessary for this transaction to succeed, with this being one of the sequence. If this one fails, the transaction is aborted (rolled back I believe :) and the processing should return to the parent calling process. In a previous life, I would have stuffed a GOBACK in there right after the END-WRITE, or even just before the END-WRITE. In this life, I do not know the best or most preferred way to do that. -Paul WRITE DC00-RECORD INVALID KEY CALL "SYS$ABORT_TRANSW" USING BY VALUE EFN BY VALUE 0 BY REFERENCE IOSB BY VALUE 0 BY VALUE 0 BY REFERENCE TID DISPLAY '>>> DC00 WRITE FAILED WITH INVALID KEY' LINE 21 ERASE LINE ACCEPT WS-USER-CHOICE END-WRITE ----> I want to GOBACK here ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 07:16:09 +0800 From: "Richard Maher" Subject: Re: Recommended HP COBOL way to exit a paragraph or perform early? Message-ID: Hi Paul, I don't know what HP recommend but, to answer your specific question, I would have a label "fini" as the last thing in a section and "go to fini.". But then I would also check the statii returned from all system calls and call "lib$stop" if they contain any value I wasn't prepared to handle. I also wouldn't attempt to do everything as part of the "invalid key" clause but rather perform a rollback section or paragraph. If you are not using sections but rather as you say a "performed paragraph" then yes I would use nested IFs. If it was a sub-program then some would use numerous "exit program"s but I don't. (Be aware that EXIT does nothing in DEC COBOL sections; don't know if that is the case with IBM COBOL) Also the passing mechanism for COBOL is defaulted to that of the last parameter (or BY REFERENCE if it is the first) so > BY VALUE 0 > BY VALUE 0 > BY REFERENCE TID could also be represented as "by value 0, 0 by reference TID". Maybe something like: - perform my_trans. if abort_it = "n" perform commit_trans else perform abort_trans. stop run. my_trans section. move "N" to abort_it. do write-1 invalid key go to fini. do write-2 invalid key go to fini. do rewrite-1 invalid key go to fini. fini. if rms-sts of current-file not = rms$_normal move "Y" to abort_it call "sys$putmsg" using rms-sts of . . . . next_sect. Cheers Richard Maher PS. I also would NOT USE UPPERCASE :-) "Paul Raulerson" wrote in message news:001601c7ece9$ad796e20$086c4a60$@com... > I'm a little puzzled what the recommended method here is for this case (see > sample code snippet below)... use a goto? Some System call? Embed everything > in a deep nesting of Ifs? > > > In this sample, the code is being ran from a performed paragraph. There are > three file writes necessary for this transaction to succeed, with this being > one of the sequence. If this one fails, the transaction is aborted (rolled > back I believe :) and the processing should return to the parent calling > process. In a previous life, I would have stuffed a GOBACK in there right > after the END-WRITE, or even just before the END-WRITE. > > In this life, I do not know the best or most preferred way to do that. > > -Paul > > WRITE DC00-RECORD > INVALID KEY > CALL "SYS$ABORT_TRANSW" USING BY VALUE EFN > BY VALUE 0 > BY REFERENCE IOSB > BY VALUE 0 > BY VALUE 0 > BY REFERENCE TID > DISPLAY '>>> DC00 WRITE FAILED WITH INVALID KEY' > LINE 21 ERASE LINE > ACCEPT WS-USER-CHOICE > END-WRITE > ----> I want to GOBACK here > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 18:41:02 -0500 From: "Paul Raulerson" Subject: RE: Recommended HP COBOL way to exit a paragraph or perform early? Message-ID: <000001c7ecf1$8ef4f480$acdedd80$@com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Maher [mailto:maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 6:16 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Recommended HP COBOL way to exit a paragraph or perform > early? > > Hi Paul, > > I don't know what HP recommend but, to answer your specific question, I > would have a label "fini" as the last thing in a section and "go to > fini.". > This is essentially the same thought I came up with, though I admit to being a little unhappy with it. If anyplace, error processing like this is the place for a GO TO. ;) > But then I would also check the statii returned from all system calls > and I do, but I stripped it out to make the example smaller and clearer. > call "lib$stop" if they contain any value I wasn't prepared to handle. What the heck is lib$stop??? > I > also wouldn't attempt to do everything as part of the "invalid key" > clause > but rather perform a rollback section or paragraph. If you are not > using > sections but rather as you say a "performed paragraph" then yes I would > use > nested IFs. I tend to not use sections in executable code very often, but that is just coding style. I have some code I maintain that is - well - almost comical in how they used sections to excess. Ah well, one day they will pay me to rewrite it. :) IBM code is structured differently internally, so a GOBACK in the INVALID KEY sequence acts for all intents and purposes, like the GO TO FINI idea. >If it was a sub-program then some would use numerous "exit > program"s but I don't. (Be aware that EXIT does nothing in DEC COBOL > sections; don't know if that is the case with IBM COBOL) > Yeah, its different. ;) It was an eye opening discovery when I read that in the manual a few weeks ago. > Also the passing mechanism for COBOL is defaulted to that of the last > parameter (or BY REFERENCE if it is the first) so > > > BY VALUE 0 > > BY VALUE 0 > > BY REFERENCE TID > > could also be represented as "by value 0, 0 by reference TID". > > Maybe something like: - > > perform my_trans. > if abort_it = "n" > perform commit_trans > else > perform abort_trans. > > stop run. > > my_trans section. > move "N" to abort_it. > do write-1 invalid key go to fini. > do write-2 invalid key go to fini. > do rewrite-1 invalid key go to fini. > fini. > if rms-sts of current-file not = rms$_normal > move "Y" to abort_it > call "sys$putmsg" using rms-sts of . . . . > This is for all intents and purposes, the code I came out with too. Except for the use of the rms specific stuff. Still studying on that. ;) > next_sect. > > Cheers Richard Maher > > PS. I also would NOT USE UPPERCASE :-) LOL! Well, it is a bit of a bad habit, but COBOL and ASSEMBLER just look strange to me in lower case. I'm still adjusting to this Terminal format, which I like. One step at a time. BTW: Converting code to terminal format does have a nasty little drawback; it makes it quite incompatible with legacy code on the IBM. The REFORMAT utility is not usable in this case, because it insists on putting the sequence numbers in 1-6. Moving to terminal format was a big commitment to me, even if the compile will handle ANSI format. The 2002 standard pretty much makes "terminal" format mandatory to support for all COBOL compilers though. -Paul > > "Paul Raulerson" wrote in message > news:001601c7ece9$ad796e20$086c4a60$@com... > > I'm a little puzzled what the recommended method here is for this > case > (see > > sample code snippet below)... use a goto? Some System call? Embed > everything > > in a deep nesting of Ifs? > > > > > > In this sample, the code is being ran from a performed paragraph. > There > are > > three file writes necessary for this transaction to succeed, with > this > being > > one of the sequence. If this one fails, the transaction is aborted > (rolled > > back I believe :) and the processing should return to the parent > calling > > process. In a previous life, I would have stuffed a GOBACK in there > right > > after the END-WRITE, or even just before the END-WRITE. > > > > In this life, I do not know the best or most preferred way to do > that. > > > > -Paul > > > > WRITE DC00-RECORD > > INVALID KEY > > CALL "SYS$ABORT_TRANSW" USING BY VALUE EFN > > BY VALUE 0 > > BY REFERENCE IOSB > > BY VALUE 0 > > BY VALUE 0 > > BY REFERENCE TID > > DISPLAY '>>> DC00 WRITE FAILED WITH INVALID KEY' > > LINE 21 ERASE LINE > > ACCEPT WS-USER-CHOICE > > END-WRITE > > ----> I want to GOBACK here > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:03:14 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: Recommended HP COBOL way to exit a paragraph or perform early? Message-ID: On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:44:37 -0700, Paul Raulerson wrote: > I'm a little puzzled what the recommended method here is for this case > (see > sample code snippet below)... use a goto? Some System call? Embed > everything > in a deep nesting of Ifs? > > > In this sample, the code is being ran from a performed paragraph. There > are > three file writes necessary for this transaction to succeed, with this > being > one of the sequence. If this one fails, the transaction is aborted > (rolled > back I believe :) and the processing should return to the parent calling > process. In a previous life, I would have stuffed a GOBACK in there right > after the END-WRITE, or even just before the END-WRITE. > > In this life, I do not know the best or most preferred way to do that. > > -Paul > > WRITE DC00-RECORD > INVALID KEY > CALL "SYS$ABORT_TRANSW" USING BY VALUE EFN > BY VALUE 0 > BY REFERENCE IOSB > BY VALUE 0 > BY VALUE 0 > BY REFERENCE TID > DISPLAY '>>> DC00 WRITE FAILED WITH INVALID KEY' > LINE 21 ERASE LINE > ACCEPT WS-USER-CHOICE > END-WRITE > ----> I want to GOBACK here > You could always write it in PL/I and use ON-conditions. Never understood why talented people waste their time using crappy languages. -- PL/I for OpenVMS www.kednos.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:47:09 -0700 From: FrankS Subject: Re: Recommended HP COBOL way to exit a paragraph or perform early? Message-ID: <1188697629.323905.292890@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Sep 1, 6:44 pm, "Paul Raulerson" wrote: > I'm a little puzzled what the recommended method here is for this case (see > sample code snippet below)... use a goto? Some System call? Embed everything > in a deep nesting of Ifs? How you write your code is up to you. Uppercase, lowercase, terminal format, ANSI format, structured, unstructured. I'm a firm believer in the single-point-of-entry, single-point-of-exit style of programming (among others). It might require more IFs than other methods, but it makes it easier (IMHO) to follow the code flow. My version of your sample problem would be something like this: DATA DIVISION. WORKING-STORAGE SECTION. 77 TRX_RESULT PIC X(1). 88 TRX_FAIL VALUE 'F'. 88 TRX_SUCCESS VALUE 'S'. PROCEDURE DIVISION. MAIN-PROGRAM SECTION. WRITE-EM. SET TRX_SUCCESS TO TRUE. WRITE DC00-RECORD INVALID KEY PERFORM REPORT-TRX-FAIL END-WRITE. IF (TRX_SUCCESS) WRITE DC01-RECORD INVALID KEY PERFORM REPORT-TRX-FAIL END-WRITE END-IF. IF (TRX_SUCCESS) WRITE DC02-RECORD INVALID KEY PERFORM REPORT-TRX-FAIL END-WRITE END-IF. STOP RUN. REPORT-TRX-FAIL. SET TRX_FAIL TO TRUE. CALL "SYS$ABORT_TRANSW" ... CALL "SYS$PUTMSG" ... DISPLAY whatever. etcetera. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:20:15 -0700 From: FrankS Subject: Re: Recommended HP COBOL way to exit a paragraph or perform early? Message-ID: <1188699615.446393.224080@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On Sep 1, 9:03 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote: > You could always write it in PL/I and use ON-conditions. Never understood > why talented people waste their time using crappy languages. When I was in high school (a gazillion years ago it seems) I was among the snobs that looked down on the COBOL and RPG programmers. I wrote, back then, in BASIC, FORTRAN, and Assembler. In college I took every programming language elective available -- PL/I, Pascal, Snobol, LISP, C, and others. (I used PL/I for my class project in compiler design, if it makes you feel better Tom.) My first paying job while in college was using FORTRAN (under RSX-11). Then we got a project which was more suited to COBOL, and then another COBOL project after that (on a VAX 11/750). I can say from experience that every language has its good and bad points. Some languages are more suited to certain tasks than others. COBOL -- despite my deep teenage contempt towards it, and perhaps in a fitting twist of karma -- is really good at what it does, particularly in the "back-end" business applications that have paid me so nicely over the years. When COBOL becomes too bulky I write utility routines in BASIC or C, depending on which other licenses the client has available. Don't be such a PL/I snob, Tom. It's not the be-all-end-all programming language any more than Java, C, C++, or any other. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:07:05 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: Recommended HP COBOL way to exit a paragraph or perform early? Message-ID: On 09/01/07 21:20, FrankS wrote: [snip] > > Don't be such a PL/I snob, Tom. It's not the be-all-end-all > programming language any more than Java, C, C++, or any other. His company only(?) sells PL/I compilers. If he wasn't a PL/1 snob, I'd be surprised. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 01:02:24 +0200 From: "Dr. Dweeb" Subject: Re: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect Message-ID: <46d9eefb$0$21931$157c6196@dreader1.cybercity.dk> Ron Johnson wrote: > On 08/31/07 20:42, Main, Kerry wrote: > [snip] >> >> The IBM VP of Software stated publicly that he thought AIX users >> would eventually >> be migrated to Linux and he was fine with that. Reference: >> http://news.com.com/2100-1001-982512.html?tag=fd_lede2_hed >> "NEW YORK--The day is approaching when Linux will likely replace >> IBM's version of Unix, the company's top software executive said, an >> indication that the upstart operating system's stature is rising >> within Big Blue." >> >> Now, do I believe this? Of course not. > > Sure I do. > > Three years ago, our development group (which encompasses everyone > except the people who work in the data center) decided that all > *will* be moved off of Rdb/VMS/Forte and onto Oracle/Unix/Java. > Aha, another Rdb site bites the dust. Is that the NY state toll system? Dr. Dweeb > Since they thought that Linux was a toy, and the "Unix" (because the > CIO had a beef with Sun) was to be HP-UX, no matter how small the > project. > > Then an extended research project project demonstrated that Linux is > not, in fact, a toy. So, the small-mid sized systems (up to 10 > million bridge tolls per month) are being ported to Linux. > > If Linux (Red Hate on 64-bit Xeon ProLiants) and Oracle prove up to > the task, I have no doubt that the big systems (60 million tolls per > month) will also go Linux instead of HP-UX. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 21:05:21 -0500 From: Ron Johnson Subject: Re: The Common System Interface: Intel's Future Interconnect Message-ID: On 09/01/07 18:02, Dr. Dweeb wrote: > Ron Johnson wrote: >> On 08/31/07 20:42, Main, Kerry wrote: >> [snip] >>> The IBM VP of Software stated publicly that he thought AIX users >>> would eventually >>> be migrated to Linux and he was fine with that. Reference: >>> http://news.com.com/2100-1001-982512.html?tag=fd_lede2_hed >>> "NEW YORK--The day is approaching when Linux will likely replace >>> IBM's version of Unix, the company's top software executive said, an >>> indication that the upstart operating system's stature is rising >>> within Big Blue." >>> >>> Now, do I believe this? Of course not. >> Sure I do. >> >> Three years ago, our development group (which encompasses everyone >> except the people who work in the data center) decided that all >> *will* be moved off of Rdb/VMS/Forte and onto Oracle/Unix/Java. >> > > Aha, another Rdb site bites the dust. > Is that the NY state toll system? Among others. > Dr. Dweeb > >> Since they thought that Linux was a toy, and the "Unix" (because the >> CIO had a beef with Sun) was to be HP-UX, no matter how small the >> project. >> >> Then an extended research project project demonstrated that Linux is >> not, in fact, a toy. So, the small-mid sized systems (up to 10 >> million bridge tolls per month) are being ported to Linux. >> >> If Linux (Red Hate on 64-bit Xeon ProLiants) and Oracle prove up to >> the task, I have no doubt that the big systems (60 million tolls per >> month) will also go Linux instead of HP-UX. -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 20:01:02 +0200 From: Wilm Boerhout Subject: Re: VMS License Plates Message-ID: <46d9a8e8$0$25478$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl> on 1-9-2007 13:10 Bill Gunshannon wrote... > OK, I worded that wrong. I knew tere was DECNET for the PDP-11. > When was DECNET first avalable for VMS and was there any other > inter-machine protocol before that? From an unbiased source: http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/digital/timeline/software.htm "[VMS] V1.0 featured FORTRAN IV and DECnet, a 64 megabyte memory limit, an event driven priority scheduler, process swapper, process deletion/creation/control, I/O post processing and AST delivery" VMS 1.0 with DECnet shipped in February 1978. February 1980 saw DECnet Phase III /Wilm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:06:20 -0700 From: Ken Fairfield Subject: Re: VMS License Plates Message-ID: <5jud4eF1al2tU1@mid.individual.net> Jeff Campbell wrote: > Brad Hamilton wrote: >> In article <46d7d830$1@news.langstoeger.at>, Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER >> wrote: >> [...] >>> Great statement, folks. Many are too long for a license plate. >> >> On top of the licesnse plate: >> >> (Open)VMS: $exit 2928 >> >> On the bottom: >> >> %SYSTEM-W-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels >> [...] > > Welcome to OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.3-1 > [snip] > $ exit 2928 > %SYSTEM-W-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels > $ exit 2930 > %SYSTEM-E-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels > $ exit 2932 > %SYSTEM-F-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels > $ exit 2934 > %SYSTEM-?-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels > $ logo > > > "They" missed: > > %SYSTEM-I-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels > > 8-) 8-) Well, yes and no. $ exit 2929 $ write sys$output f$message(2929) %SYSTEM-S-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels $ exit 2931 $ write sys$ooutput f$message(2931) %SYSTEM-I-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels $ I don't recall at the moment whether there's a way to force DCL, or more precisely, to force EXIT to display Success and Informational severity messages. For those who are too new to understand why the various statii all produce the same message text, note that a message code, e.g., 2932, has various fields in it, and the least significant 3 bits give the severity (valid severities are 0-4); the same message mnemonic and text can be displayed with different severities and, indeed, different facilities. Here, for example: $ exit 134002 %DEBUG-E-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels $ :-) :-) :-) -Ken -- Ken & Ann Fairfield What: Ken dot And dot Ann Where: Gmail dot Com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:22:14 -0600 From: Jeff Campbell Subject: Re: VMS License Plates Message-ID: <1188695935_13813@sp12lax.superfeed.net> Ken Fairfield wrote: > Jeff Campbell wrote: >> Brad Hamilton wrote: >>> In article <46d7d830$1@news.langstoeger.at>, Peter 'EPLAN' >>> LANGSTOeGER wrote: >>> [...] >>>> Great statement, folks. Many are too long for a license plate. >>> >>> On top of the licesnse plate: >>> >>> (Open)VMS: $exit 2928 >>> >>> On the bottom: >>> >>> %SYSTEM-W-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels >>> [...] >> >> Welcome to OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.3-1 >> [snip] >> $ exit 2928 >> %SYSTEM-W-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels >> $ exit 2930 >> %SYSTEM-E-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels >> $ exit 2932 >> %SYSTEM-F-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels >> $ exit 2934 >> %SYSTEM-?-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels >> $ logo >> >> >> "They" missed: >> >> %SYSTEM-I-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels >> >> 8-) 8-) > > Well, yes and no. > > $ exit 2929 > $ write sys$output f$message(2929) > %SYSTEM-S-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels > $ exit 2931 > $ write sys$ooutput f$message(2931) > %SYSTEM-I-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels > $ > > I don't recall at the moment whether there's a way to force DCL, > or more precisely, to force EXIT to display Success and Informational > severity messages. > > For those who are too new to understand why the various statii all > produce the same message text, note that a message code, e.g., 2932, > has various fields in it, and the least significant 3 bits give the > severity (valid severities are 0-4); the same message mnemonic and text > can be displayed with different severities and, indeed, different > facilities. Here, for example: > > $ exit 134002 > %DEBUG-E-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels > $ > > :-) :-) :-) > > -Ken Not on my system... The odd numbers are successful of course. Welcome to OpenVMS (TM) Alpha Operating System, Version V7.3-1 $ exit 2928 %SYSTEM-W-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels $ exit 2929 $ exit 2930 %SYSTEM-E-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels $ exit 2931 $ exit 2932 %SYSTEM-F-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels $ $ exit 134002 %DEBUG-E-FISH, my hovercraft is full of eels $ Jeff ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.481 ************************