INFO-VAX Tue, 21 Aug 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 457
Contents:
Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind?
Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind?
Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind?
Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind?
Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind?
Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind?
Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind?
Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind? blind?
Re: AppleTalk on Alpha VMS 8.3
Re: EMACS [was: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas]
Re: Fun with bugs
Re: Fun with bugs
Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected?
Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected?
Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected?
Re: Looking for SEDT source code
Re: Looking for SEDT source code
Re: Looking for SEDT source code
Question about FTP and filenames
Question about FTP and filenames
Re: Question about FTP and filenames
Reading non-VMS DAT tape
Re: Reading non-VMS DAT tape
VMS Updated Information
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:58:11 -0500 (CDT)
From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)
Subject: Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind?
Message-ID: <07082014581182_20200296@antinode.org>
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From: AEF <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind?
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:57:43 -0700
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On Aug 20, 10:22 am, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilber...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> AEF wrote:
> > On Aug 19, 11:16 pm, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote:
>
> >>From: <tkupp.x...@sasktel.xspamx.net>
>
> > [...]
>
> >>>Are there hidden gotchas, etc.? Anybody have any (bad) experiences they
> >>>can relate while doing a similar migration?
>
> >> The biggest problems I've seen are less case-related, more
> >>exotic-character-related. Methods like looking for "]" or "." to
> >>decompose a file spec are less reliable when the file spech looks like,
> >>say, "dka100:[d^.i^.r^[]a^]^.b.c". If you continue to use
> >>ODS2-compatible names, that reduces the possibilities for problems.
> >>Sadly, there's no real substitute for testing.
>
> > That's why you should always use F$PARSE (or its system services
> > equivalent) whenever possible.
>
> When would it not be possible to use F$PARSE? If you don't use F$PARSE,
> there is an excellent possibility that someone can construct a legal
> file spec that you cannot parse correctly. Legal file specs, even if
> you limit them to ODS-2 file specs, can get pretty weird. You have to
> remember that VMS inherited a lot of cruft from DEC operating systems
> that only the old timers remember!
You're absolutely right, but I actually had such a reason once. It was
my TO.COM (set default program). I wanted to be able to type in the
target directory-spec without using the brackets. I did use F$PARSE as
much as I could, but had to do just a little parsing on my own because
of this requirement. (TO.COM *does* require that logical names that
point to directories include the brackets and follow all the other RMS
rules, but I really wanted to be able to type DISK:DIR instead of DISK:
[DIR] and DIR instead of [DIR] on the command line. (This was actually
a major "selling point" for some users.)
One day I'll try it on an ODS-5 disk (if I can find a VMS box on the
net that has one! I'm looking to check Deathrow next, but hints as to
where to look are welcome). But I *do* warn in my instructions that it
was written for ODS-2. I'm curious what problems will arise and what
modifications to the program would be useful.
I was also just speaking generally in that you never know what someone
might need. But I think 99.9% of the time F$PARSE should do what you
need.
AEF
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:58:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)
Subject: Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind?
Message-ID: <07082014582458_20200296@antinode.org>
From: AEF <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>
> One day I'll try it on an ODS-5 disk (if I can find a VMS box on the
> net that has one! I'm looking to check Deathrow next, but hints as to
> where to look are welcome). [...]
The HP TestDrive systems say things like:
Your default directory is USER1:[ANTINODE]
You also have a directory on an ODS-5 device. USER5:[antinode]
http://www.testdrive.hp.com/
http://www.testdrive.hp.com/current.shtml
Also, you can make one using LD pretty easily, and save the network.
From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net>
> > Assuming that most folks won't actually be using ";" or ":" or "]" in
> > file names (or "<>" to delimit a directory, or ...), then much of such
> > sub-ideal code can be expected to work (for most people, most of the
> > time).
>
> Well, if having your code work for most people, most of the time, is
> sufficient. . . .
It usually is, and it's not _my_ code.
> It's not that difficult to get it right and have it work for everyone,
> all of the time.
It can be when you don't control the code.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org
382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818
Saint Paul MN 55105-2547
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 17:43:16 -0700
From: AEF <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind?
Message-ID: <1187656996.559934.289040@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 20, 3:58 pm, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote:
> From: AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com>
>
> > One day I'll try it on an ODS-5 disk (if I can find a VMS box on the
> > net that has one! I'm looking to check Deathrow next, but hints as to
> > where to look are welcome). [...]
>
> The HP TestDrive systems say things like:
>
> Your default directory is USER1:[ANTINODE]
> You also have a directory on an ODS-5 device. USER5:[antinode]
>
> http://www.testdrive.hp.com/
> http://www.testdrive.hp.com/current.shtml
>
> Also, you can make one using LD pretty easily, and save the network.
Thanks! I have LD, I actually can fire up a spare disk, but I'm
running VMS V6.2!
So which is easier? Upgrading 6.2 to 7.2 or registering with test
drive?
[...]
> Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org
> 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818
> Saint Paul MN 55105-2547
AEF
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:20:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)
Subject: Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind?
Message-ID: <07082020203914_20200296@antinode.org>
From: AEF <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>
> Thanks! I have LD, I actually can fire up a spare disk, but I'm
> running VMS V6.2!
<Insert deity of your choice here>. Why?
> So which is easier? Upgrading 6.2 to 7.2 or registering with test
> drive?
A TestDrive would be less disruptive on your system(s), and you get
to (and have to) run on an IA64 system. It's been three years since I
signed up, so I can't remember how long it takes for a registration
request to be fulfilled.
Why stop at V7.2? Of the V7's, I would (and did) pick V7.3-2. V7.2
barely has ODS5.
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/4506/4506pro_014.html
[...]
OpenVMS 7.3-1 on Alpha systems and ODS--5 disks includes enhanced
support for the use of file names, and subdirectory and root
subdirectory names. It supports all possible 8-bit characters,
excluding only the following two characters: ? *
[...]
Of course, V8.3 adds more fun, including symbolic links. (Wheee.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org
382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818
Saint Paul MN 55105-2547
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 18:47:15 -0700
From: AEF <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind?
Message-ID: <1187660835.113328.230680@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 20, 9:20 pm, s...@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote:
> From: AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com>
>
> > Thanks! I have LD, I actually can fire up a spare disk, but I'm
> > running VMS V6.2!
>
> <Insert deity of your choice here>. Why?
To save a lot of time and work. I've answered this numerous times in
this forum. I should start a FAQ! Hey, you could find the answer with
Google! ;-) (I don't have my own Web site currently, so it'll have to
wait.)
I'm still working on getting my market systems from VMS V6.1 to V6.2.
Many of the "satellite nodes" (DECnet end nodes, actually) are already
at V6.2. Recent tests are very promising.
So why go further? I'd have to test my app. Probably relink it all. A
lot of work for an app that's running just fine (network-limited) and
is slated for retirement any year now. And I'd have to upgrade a fair
number of boxes!!! Just what would be the big gain here?
> > So which is easier? Upgrading 6.2 to 7.2 or registering with test
> > drive?
>
> A TestDrive would be less disruptive on your system(s), and you get
> to (and have to) run on an IA64 system. It's been three years since I
> signed up, so I can't remember how long it takes for a registration
> request to be fulfilled.
>
> Why stop at V7.2? Of the V7's, I would (and did) pick V7.3-2. V7.2
> barely has ODS5.
Because I have the 7.2 disk(s) lying around somewhere and no others.
I've got work to do, besides!!! (I have no VAX/Alpha/Integrity boxes
at home.)
I think I'll go with the test drive option. Will it let me upload my
TO.COM via FTP?
>
> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731FINAL/4506/4506pro_014.html
>
> [...]
> OpenVMS 7.3-1 on Alpha systems and ODS--5 disks includes enhanced
> support for the use of file names, and subdirectory and root
> subdirectory names. It supports all possible 8-bit characters,
> excluding only the following two characters: ? *
> [...]
>
> Of course, V8.3 adds more fun, including symbolic links. (Wheee.)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org
> 382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818
> Saint Paul MN 55105-2547
AEF
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:06:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)
Subject: Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind?
Message-ID: <07082021060498_20200296@antinode.org>
From: AEF <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>
> > Why stop at V7.2? Of the V7's, I would (and did) pick V7.3-2. V7.2
> > barely has ODS5.
>
> Because I have the 7.2 disk(s) lying around somewhere and no others.
The Hobbyist CD-ROM has V7.3. Later kits are often available if you
ask for them.
> I've got work to do, besides!!! (I have no VAX/Alpha/Integrity boxes
> at home.)
Everyone needs VMS junk at home. What do you do with your time now?
> I think I'll go with the test drive option. Will it let me upload my
> TO.COM via FTP?
FTP and Telnet to a TestDrive system work. There seems to be no
outbound network access from a TestDrive system. (You may be able to
get from one to itself or to another one, however. Much useful stuff,
like SET DISPLAY back to the real world, or wget to fetch something, is
doomed.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org
382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818
Saint Paul MN 55105-2547
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:12:44 +0200
From: "P. Sture" <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch>
Subject: Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind?
Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-C38AA0.07124421082007@mac.sture.ch>
In article <07082014581182_20200296@antinode.org>,
sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda) wrote:
> One day I'll try it on an ODS-5 disk (if I can find a VMS box on the
> net that has one! I'm looking to check Deathrow next, but hints as to
> where to look are welcome). But I *do* warn in my instructions that it
> was written for ODS-2. I'm curious what problems will arise and what
> modifications to the program would be useful.
On Deathrow, the system disk for GEIN, DISK$GEIN_SYS, is ODS-5.
On my account, which was set up several years ago*, it's the last disk
in a search list:
GEIN $ sh log sys$users
"SYS$USERS" = "DISK$USERS:" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)
= "DISK$EXTRA:"
= "DISK$GEIN_SYS:"
1 "DISK$USERS" = "$9$LDA1:" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)
1 "DISK$EXTRA" = "$9$LDA2:" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)
1 "DISK$GEIN_SYS" = "$3$DQA0:" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)
* a new account created today may be set up differently.
--
Paul Sture
Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks:
http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 03:11:10 GMT
From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>
Subject: Re: Any filename problems going from VAX/ODS-2 to Alpha/ODS-5/case blind? blind?
Message-ID: <iJsyi.68888$Fc.51490@attbi_s21>
Steven M. Schweda wrote:
> FTP and Telnet to a TestDrive system work. There seems to be no
> outbound network access from a TestDrive system. (You may be able to
> get from one to itself or to another one, however. Much useful stuff,
> like SET DISPLAY back to the real world, or wget to fetch something, is
> doomed.)
One of the VMS testdrive systems allows SSH with X-11 tunneling.
You also now can get the common home drive used for the other platorms
mounted for you as VMS drive.
I have not checked to see if that means if you can use the rsync or svn
client on LINUX to fetch files for the VMS system.
-John
wb8tyw@qsl.network
Personal Opinion Only
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:36:54 -0700
From: Ed Wilts <ed.wilts@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: AppleTalk on Alpha VMS 8.3
Message-ID: <1187635014.383847.6190@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 20, 12:49 pm, Paul Anderson <paul.ander...@hp.com> wrote:
> In article <1187630065.505196.200...@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
> Ed Wilts <ed.wi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Has anybody tested AppleTalk on 8.3 to see if it still works?
>
> Assuming you mean the PATHWORKS for OpenVMS (Macintosh) product, no, it
> does not work on OpenVMS V8.3.
Yes, that's what I meant.
Thanks Paul!
.../Ed
------------------------------
Date: 20 Aug 2007 18:47:26 -0400
From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>
Subject: Re: EMACS [was: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas]
Message-ID: <mddtzqtesch.fsf@panix5.panix.com>
"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company> writes:
> On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:38:18 -0700, Bob Koehler
> <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:
>> In article <170820071419444158%nospam@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper
>> <nospam@yrl.co.uk> writes:
>>> I'm using emacs on OS X now, I'm ashamed to relate.
>>> It is bit verbose, and the syntax colouring is a bit girly, but it has
>>> the same unforgiving nature that you grow to love in teco. ;-)
>> Probably because TECO was the first engine emacs was written on.
> A little history FYI
> http://www.multicians.org/mepap.html
An old .sig of mine read
Rich Alderson Last LOTS Tops-20 Systems Programmer, 1984-1991
Current maintainer, MIT TECO EMACS (v. 170)
last name @ <previous employer> <position at said previous employer>
Note that second line? It's still true.
--
Rich Alderson | /"\ ASCII ribbon |
news@alderson.users.panix.com | \ / campaign against |
"You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." | x HTML mail and |
--Death, of the Endless | / \ postings |
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:03:35 -0700
From: Doug Phillips <dphill46@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: Fun with bugs
Message-ID: <1187636615.157575.159690@x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 20, 8:26 am, John Reagan <john.rea...@hp.com> wrote:
> Doug Phillips wrote:
> > Ok, I understand. So what if there had been another conditional
> > statement in the code that set it to FALSE? Do you FIFI or LIFO? Do
> > the fetch? ...? Shouldn't there be a compile or run-time error or
> > warning on an illegal operation (or is there one)? (I'm not trying to
> > be a pest; I don't have Pascal, I don't have access to the internals,
> > and I have always been fascinated by the hows and whys of compilers.
> > Must be my BAL beginnings:-)
>
> If there was some other path that could have set it to FALSE, then I
> we'll have to fetch it since it could contain two different legal values
> (and one illegal)
>
> This isn't just Pascal by the way. Any GEM-based compiler of recent
> vintage should show the same optimization.
>
> As for a message like: "there exists one or more paths to this fetch
> that didn't contain a store", yes the flow analyzer does produce pass
> this information back to the front-end when it can figure it out. Each
> front-end is free to display or filter as desired. Pascal filters some
> of the infos coming from inside of GEM for various historical reasons so
> all of them might not come out.
>
> However, for this one:
>
> program foo(output);
>
> procedure x(inflag : boolean);
> var b : boolean;
>
> begin
> if inflag then b := true;
>
> if b then writeln('true');
> end;
>
> begin
> x(false)
> end.
>
> you'll see
>
> (hiyall)$ pascal/usage=all x
>
> if b then writeln('true');
> .....^
> %PASCAL-I-UNCERTAIN, B may not have been initialized
> at line number 9 in file HIYALL$:[REAGAN]X.PAS;4
> %PASCAL-S-ENDDIAGS, PASCAL completed with 1 diagnostic
>
That's what I would expect because the state of b is undefined/
uncertain at that point.
> If the "IF" was:
>
> if inflag then b := true else b := false;
>
Presuming you mean "no message" on the following statement:
> if b then writeln('true');
Again that would be expected, because the state of b is defined/
certain and its value is either true or false.
> But for something like:
>
> if inflag then b := true;
> if not inflag then b := false;
>
> we'll still print the message because we aren't smart enough to track
> the values.
I do understand why don't try to track such values but I would not
expect a message.
Again, assuming you mean "the message" for statement: if b then
writeln('true');
The state of b is defined; it must be because its dependency is on the
value of inflag, which is not an optional argument, inflag's state
will be passed (or whatever equiv term you use) and in procedure x its
value should be fetched. Even if the caller had passed a declared but
undefined variable as inflag, since you don't at that point know how x
will use the argument I wouldn't expect an error message; just
unpredictable results.
Anyway, thanks. I'll try to do some more reading about GEM.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:38:20 -0400
From: John Reagan <john.reagan@hp.com>
Subject: Re: Fun with bugs
Message-ID: <facqnc$935$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>
Doug Phillips wrote:
>
>
> Presuming you mean "no message" on the following statement:
>
>
>> if b then writeln('true');
Correct. Sorry for not being clearer.
>
>>But for something like:
>>
>> if inflag then b := true;
>> if not inflag then b := false;
>>
>>we'll still print the message because we aren't smart enough to track
>>the values.
>
>
> I do understand why don't try to track such values but I would not
> expect a message.
Well, the compiler isn't as smart as a human with eyes and a brain. For
"simple" expressions like "if inflag" and "if not inflag" then a human
can realize that one of the two expressions will be true. But in
general, if it was
if some-random-expression then b := true;
if some-other-random-expression then b := false;
you can see that it might be that neither expression will be true and b
will end up being undefined.
Most real-world programs don't look like:
if inflag then b := true;
if not inflag then b := false;
Making the flow analyzer/optimizer smarter just to catch these simple
programs probably won't be a benefit for more complicated examples.
All the compiler knows for:
if inflag then b := true;
if not inflag then b := false;
if b then writeln('true');
is
1) that there is no assignment on a direct path from the defining point
to the fetch
2) there is more than one conditional assignment to b
so we
1) print a message saying that 'b' might be undefined
2) fetch the value from memory for 'if b then' since we don't know which
conditional assignment (or both) was executed
--
John Reagan
OpenVMS Pascal/Macro-32/COBOL Project Leader
Hewlett-Packard Company
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:17:09 -0500
From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected?
Message-ID: <46C9DAA5.3F706E9E@spam.comcast.net>
John Smith wrote:
>
> FredK wrote:
> > "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company> wrote in message
> > news:op.tw2c4utdhv4qyg@murphus.linden...
> >> On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:33:17 -0700, FredK <fred.nospam@dec.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Golly. OK. So should it be POWER? Or SPARC? That HP-UX ports to?
> >>
> >> I was only thinking about the technical aspect, having myself ported
> >> similar styled Unix (BSD4.x) a couple of times before.
> >>
> >> But you are quite right they really don't have any options. It would
> >> appear HP really did bet the farm on IA64. X86 doesn't have support
> >> beyond the
> >> byte swap instructions?
> >>
> >
> > Yup. That is my point. Without reviving Alpha or PA RISC and going
> > back into the FAB business to stay competetive - HP-UX needs to use
> > Itanium *or* one of HPs competetors chips. SPARC which is well on
> > its way to the grave. Or POWER - noticed how IBM appears to be hiding
> > how much they make/lose on the chip business? It is very, very
> > expensive to maintain the ability to design and FAB your own chips
> > with cutting edge processes.
> >
> > For various degrees of difficulty and performance - VMS "could" run
> > on any of the 64-bit chips out there... at a considerable expense and
> > time cost.
>
> You no doubt have seen the Sun announcement this past week of a Solaris port
> for Power.
>
> That makes Solaris run now on Sparc, Power, x86
...while VMS languishes on the foundering Itanic...
"There are none so blind as those who will not see." (not sure of the source)
--
David J Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://www.djesys.com/
Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/
Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/
Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/
Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:19:52 -0500
From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected?
Message-ID: <46C9DB48.9EE972C@spam.comcast.net>
Bob Koehler wrote:
>
> In article <C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BDE935D8F5B@G1W0487.americas.hpqcorp.net>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com> writes:
> >
> > An unsupported system?
>
> Nope, I had to support it, DEC didn't have to.
>
> >
> > Just to clarify - I was referring to OS kernel code (Scheduler, cluster etc=
> > ),
> > not user or App code that calls or executes in kernel mode.
>
> And I haven't had to patch kernel code since VMS 4.x, but I did
> have to write a substitute routine for my driver to call when
> I found a bug in 6.x.
Did you have the source and the build environment to build a new (unsupported)
VMS kernel, or did you just include kernel-mode code in a routine that could be
LINKed to your driver code, bypassing the kernel code you were replacing?
--
David J Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://www.djesys.com/
Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/
Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/
Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/
Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:59:25 -0500
From: Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Intel marginalizing Itanium even faster than expected?
Message-ID: <Ognyi.158041$dA7.5192@newsfe16.lga>
On 08/20/07 13:17, David J Dachtera wrote:
[snip]
>
> "There are none so blind as those who will not see." (not sure of the source)
John Heywood, 1546, then Jonathan Swift, paraphrasing Jeremiah 5:21.
Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding;
which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not.
Google is a wonderful thing.
--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA
Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:53:36 -0700
From: Verne <verne@wvnet.edu>
Subject: Re: Looking for SEDT source code
Message-ID: <1187636016.709337.48800@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 20, 7:02 am, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilber...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> Dr. Dweeb wrote:
> > Paul McIlfatrick wrote:
>
> >>Back on 22nd November 2005 Lee Roth posted the following article in
> >>the comp.unix.solaris newsgroup:
>
> >>>Briefly: I have permission from the original author of SEDT (Anker
> >>>Berg-Sonne) to make my modified-for-Solaris binary + source files
> >>>available.
>
> >>>If you've never used the DEC EDT editor I certainly don't suggest you
> >>>begin to do so now, but if you are an old-time DEC user like me that
> >>>has the EDT editor burned deep into your brain's ROM, you may want to
> >>>give this powerful EDT-on-steroids editor a look.
>
> >>>I had to do a couple of minor tweaks to get the sources to compile,
> >>>but I have created a binary that runs on Solaris 7, 8 and 9 (Sparc)
> >>>and a separate binary that (at least) Solaris 7 on Intel platforms.
> >>>I have not yet tested the binary on Solaris 10 (Sparc).
>
> >>>Additional details athttp://easy48.com/sedt/
>
> >>>Check out the above link... if interested, please respond to this
> >>>posting.
>
> >>>Thanks,
>
> >>>Lee Roth
>
> >>A few days ago I posted an article to the comp.unix.solaris newsgroup
> >>asking if Lee Roth had ever made the modified-for-Solaris binary +
> >>source files available. I got three replies, each trying to be funny
> >>about painting the numlock key gold.
>
> >>In Alan Roth's article he mentioned thehttp://easy48.com/sedt/web
> >>page and it still exists. Some days ago I sent an e-mail to Lee at
> >>the address he gives on that page but so far there has been no reply.
>
> >>As someone who started out on VMS back in 1983 and got used to
> >>programming DCL and using EDT, I have never got used to vi on Solaris
> >>after my company moved to Sun machines around 1996.
>
> >>Do any of you people who read this newsgroup know:
>
> >>1) is the SEDT source available somewhere on the Internet for download
> >>(Google search didn't turn up anything)?
>
> >>or
>
> >>2) is there SEDT Solaris binary available (I know this is a VMS
> >>newsgroup!)?
>
> >>Thanks
>
> >>Paul McIlfatrick
>
> > SEDT, now there are some memories. That was my editor of choice on my
> > Rainbow 100+ (a sturdy machine that lived for more than a decade before
> > expiring). violins please ...
>
> > Anyway, what is the best choice for a free "windows" editor with a fully
> > functional EDT interface (incl. macros) ?
> > I do not work in the VMS world anymore, so I am editing on windows and I
> > admit that I miss TPU/EDT.
>
> > cheers
> > Dweeb
>
> There used to be a program called EDT+ from Boston Business Computing
> that ran under DOS. It was expensive! It's the only one I've ever seen
> or heard of.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Just on Friday a remote campus asked me about SEDT, so I found
my 3 year old Linux copy and ZIPped it up ... try
http://vaxa.wvnet.edu/~verne/verne-sedt2.zip
(sources and a binary, RedHat AS release 3) ... had to make some
minor
changes to it back then (or at least I thought I did, not really a C
programmer)
Took me awhile 3 yrs ago if I recall, to originally find it myself on
the web :-)
Verne
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 15:50:59 -0500
From: Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Looking for SEDT source code
Message-ID: <T8nyi.158040$dA7.33577@newsfe16.lga>
On 08/20/07 13:53, Verne wrote:
[snip]
>
> Just on Friday a remote campus asked me about SEDT, so I found
> my 3 year old Linux copy and ZIPped it up ... try
>
> http://vaxa.wvnet.edu/~verne/verne-sedt2.zip
>
> (sources and a binary, RedHat AS release 3) ... had to make some
> minor
> changes to it back then (or at least I thought I did, not really a C
> programmer)
Thanks. I'll try it on Debian Sid. Hopefully not too many bugs.
--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA
Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!
------------------------------
Date: 21 Aug 2007 04:38:42 GMT
From: "dave weatherall" <daveweather3@compuserve.SPAMFREEde>
Subject: Re: Looking for SEDT source code
Message-ID: <5iv8ihF3r7742U1@mid.individual.net>
Verne wrote:
> On Aug 20, 7:02 am, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilber...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> > Dr. Dweeb wrote:
> > > Paul McIlfatrick wrote:
> >
> > > > Back on 22nd November 2005 Lee Roth posted the following
> > > > article in the comp.unix.solaris newsgroup:
> >
> > > > > Briefly: I have permission from the original author of SEDT
> > > > > (Anker Berg-Sonne) to make my modified-for-Solaris binary +
> > > > > source files available.
> >
> > > > > If you've never used the DEC EDT editor I certainly don't
> > > > > suggest you begin to do so now, but if you are an old-time
> > > > > DEC user like me that has the EDT editor burned deep into
> > > > > your brain's ROM, you may want to give this powerful
> > > > > EDT-on-steroids editor a look.
> >
> > > > > I had to do a couple of minor tweaks to get the sources to
> > > > > compile, but I have created a binary that runs on Solaris 7,
> > > > > 8 and 9 (Sparc) and a separate binary that (at least) Solaris
> > > > > 7 on Intel platforms. I have not yet tested the binary on
> > > > > Solaris 10 (Sparc).
> >
> > > > > Additional details athttp://easy48.com/sedt/
> >
> > > > > Check out the above link... if interested, please respond to
> > > > > this posting.
> >
> > > > > Thanks,
> >
> > > > > Lee Roth
> >
> > > > A few days ago I posted an article to the comp.unix.solaris
> > > > newsgroup asking if Lee Roth had ever made the
> > > > modified-for-Solaris binary + source files available. I got
> > > > three replies, each trying to be funny about painting the
> > > > numlock key gold.
> >
> > > > In Alan Roth's article he mentioned
> > > > thehttp://easy48.com/sedt/web page and it still exists. Some
> > > > days ago I sent an e-mail to Lee at the address he gives on
> > > > that page but so far there has been no reply.
> >
> > > > As someone who started out on VMS back in 1983 and got used to
> > > > programming DCL and using EDT, I have never got used to vi on
> > > > Solaris after my company moved to Sun machines around 1996.
> >
> > > > Do any of you people who read this newsgroup know:
> >
> > > > 1) is the SEDT source available somewhere on the Internet for
> > > > download (Google search didn't turn up anything)?
> >
> > > > or
> >
> > > > 2) is there SEDT Solaris binary available (I know this is a VMS
> > > > newsgroup!)?
> >
> > > > Thanks
> >
> > > > Paul McIlfatrick
> >
> > > SEDT, now there are some memories. That was my editor of choice
> > > on my Rainbow 100+ (a sturdy machine that lived for more than a
> > > decade before expiring). violins please ...
> >
> > > Anyway, what is the best choice for a free "windows" editor with
> > > a fully functional EDT interface (incl. macros) ?
> > > I do not work in the VMS world anymore, so I am editing on
> > > windows and I admit that I miss TPU/EDT.
> >
> > > cheers
> > > Dweeb
> >
> > There used to be a program called EDT+ from Boston Business
> > Computing that ran under DOS. It was expensive! It's the only one
> > I've ever seen or heard of.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> Just on Friday a remote campus asked me about SEDT, so I found
> my 3 year old Linux copy and ZIPped it up ... try
>
> http://vaxa.wvnet.edu/~verne/verne-sedt2.zip
>
> (sources and a binary, RedHat AS release 3) ... had to make some
> minor
> changes to it back then (or at least I thought I did, not really a C
> programmer)
>
> Took me awhile 3 yrs ago if I recall, to originally find it myself on
> the web :-)
>
> Verne
Was this the OS/2 version originally Verne? The sedt*2* got me
wondering.
--
Cheers - Dave
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 00:33:44 -0400
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Subject: Question about FTP and filenames
Message-ID: <de410$46ca6b2c$cef8887a$15243@TEKSAVVY.COM>
From a MAC, I ftp to a vms box, and then issue:
SEND ~/Desktop/VT500_parser.png
The file that gets created on VMS is:
_Users_JFMEZEI_Desktop_vt500_parser.png;1
Would it be correct to state that it is the MAC's fault for not removing
path information from the filename being sent to the remote FTP server ?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:43:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)
Subject: Question about FTP and filenames
Message-ID: <07082023431219_20200296@antinode.org>
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
> From a MAC, I ftp to a vms box, and then issue:
Is that anything like a "Mac[intosh]"? Running what? A VMS system
running what? (How long does it take to learn how to ask a question?)
> SEND ~/Desktop/VT500_parser.png
>
> The file that gets created on VMS is:
>
> _Users_JFMEZEI_Desktop_vt500_parser.png;1
>
> Would it be correct to state that it is the MAC's fault for not removing
> path information from the filename being sent to the remote FTP server ?
No, it would be correct to blame yourself. The FTP programs are
doing what you asked (to the extent possible). If you want no path
info, don't ask for it. For example:
put ~/Desktop/VT500_parser.png VT500_parser.png
or:
cd ~/Desktop
put VT500_parser.png
If you ask to send "/Users/JFMEZEI/Desktop/vt500_parser.png", then you
should expect to see something like that at the other end. "Do what I
want, not what I said," is not realistic in this context.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org
382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818
Saint Paul MN 55105-2547
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 07:24:38 +0200
From: "P. Sture" <paul.sture.nospam@hispeed.ch>
Subject: Re: Question about FTP and filenames
Message-ID: <paul.sture.nospam-4AF52F.07243821082007@mac.sture.ch>
In article <de410$46ca6b2c$cef8887a$15243@TEKSAVVY.COM>,
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> From a MAC, I ftp to a vms box, and then issue:
>
> SEND ~/Desktop/VT500_parser.png
>
> The file that gets created on VMS is:
>
> _Users_JFMEZEI_Desktop_vt500_parser.png;1
>
Ooh! So it does.
> Would it be correct to state that it is the MAC's fault for not removing
> path information from the filename being sent to the remote FTP server ?
You are giving it the full path by specifying ~/
I you do a CD ~/Desktop
first, followed by the SEND, then no problem.
--
Paul Sture
Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks:
http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:44:35 -0700
From: rtk <oneelkruns@hotmail.com>
Subject: Reading non-VMS DAT tape
Message-ID: <1187671475.213273.65550@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
I have an old 4mm DAT tape that was made on a PC using Novaback about
ten years ago. I also have a running Alphaserver 1000 4/200 with a
working DAT drive (I've read VMS format tapes with it).
Does anyone know a way to pull data of a 4mm DAT tape that was made on
a PC?
Also, what is the simplest way to backup the system disk onto a DAT
tape?
Thanks!
Ron
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 00:27:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)
Subject: Re: Reading non-VMS DAT tape
Message-ID: <07082100273143_20200296@antinode.org>
From: rtk <oneelkruns@hotmail.com>
> I have an old 4mm DAT tape that was made on a PC using Novaback about
> ten years ago. I also have a running Alphaserver 1000 4/200 with a
> working DAT drive (I've read VMS format tapes with it).
>
> Does anyone know a way to pull data of a 4mm DAT tape that was made on
> a PC?
You may be able to get the bits off using things like:
MOUNT /NOASSIST /FOREIGN dat:
COPY dat: destination_file
but unless "Novaback" used some recognizable format (like, say, "tar"),
you're probably on your own after that if you want to reconstruct the
original files.
> Also, what is the simplest way to backup the system disk onto a DAT
> tape?
Simplest or best?
BACKUP /IMAGE /VERIFY [...] SYS$DISK: dat:
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/index.html
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/os83_index.html
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/aa-pv5mj-tk/aa-pv5mj-tk.HTMl
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/aa-pv5mj-tk/00/01/110-con.html
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82FINAL/aa-pv5mj-tk/00/01/127-con.html#sbkup-sec
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org
382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818
Saint Paul MN 55105-2547
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:53:23 -0700
From: Sue <susan_skonetski@hotmail.com>
Subject: VMS Updated Information
Message-ID: <1187643203.801357.107380@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Dear Newsgroup,
Here is the update. Please keep in mind that this is not an official
anything, its just an email between friends. All the urls do work but
keep in mind that they may wrap to another line.
Sent via email today.
---------------------------------
Dear Distribution Lists,
Enclosed please find the latest OpenVMS Update. Included is the
scheduled for this years OpenVMS Technical Update Days. Sorry for the
delay in this update.
Warm Regards,
Sue
Table of contents
1.0 OpenVMS Technical Update Days
Germany
Netherlands
Sweden
2.0 Time Sensitive -
3.0 Sue's Fav's
3.1 30th Anniversary
3.2 Computerworld article
3.3 Bruden-OSSG
3.4 University of Malaga Hits 2 Terabytes!
3.5 Aarons posting of DEC commercials
3.6 Humor
4.0 User Groups
4.1 Canada
4.1.2 Anyone has Parts for a DEC Rainbow?
4.1.3 Technical Seminar in the Fall?
4.2 United States
4.2.2 Encompass Board of Directors Elections 2008
4.2.3 To find a Local User Group is the US near you
4.2.4 SIG's Special Interest Groups
4.2.4 Blogs
5.0 Training
6.0 Jobs
7.0 In the Press
________________________________
1.0 OpenVMS Technical Update Days - See you there
Germany September 27-28 www.hp.com/de/events/openvms
Netherlands October 1-2
http://h41267.www4.hp.com/eventpage.aspx?&eventid=NQA3ADAAMQA%3d&cc=nl&lang=nl
Sweden October 4-5 www.hp.se/evenemang/openvms
__________________________________________
2.0 Time Sensitive
To find out about upcoming VMS events please visit
Upcoming OpenVMS events -
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/new/events.html
----------------
For folks that remember DEC - WHEN: Thursday, September 27, 2007, 4:00
- 8:00 PM http://www.decedout.org/50thAnniv.htm
______________________________________________
3.0 Sue's Fav's
--------------
3.1 Tell us your VMS Stories - ITS our 30th Anniversary -
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/fb_30years.html
--------------
3.2 Computerworld article with 126 recommendations and 13 comments
http://tinyurl.com/2pxb79
--------------
3.3 BRUDEN-OSSG has been very active in OpenVMS performance analysis,
consulting, support, and porting projects, but we have not abandoned
training.
We have offered several custom courses on migrating to Integrity
Server platforms from Alpha and VAX. We can customize a course to
meet your needs.
These custom courses are developed by Guy Peleg and Bruce Ellis, who
have extensive Integrity Server experience.
We are developing a VAX Macro course, suitable for any platform. This
course will be available in the early November timeframe.
We are also offering the following courses at our Colorado Springs
location.
All with the guarantee that they will run.
9/17 - 9/21 OpenVMS Fundamentals
9/24 - 9/28 OpenVMS System Management I
10/1 - 10/5 OpenVMS System Management II
10/15 - 10/19 OpenVMS Internals for System Managers
10/22 - 10/26 DCL Command Procedures: Design and Implementation
When you register through BRUDEN-OSSG, tell us that "Sue sent you" and
receive a 10% discount on the course price.
See www.BRUDENOSSG.com for registration details or email
Solutions@BRUDEN.com for a custom on-site offering.
---------------
3.4 University of Malaga Hits 2 Terabytes!
http://wasd.vsm.com.au/other/uma_2tb.html
--------------
3.5 Aaron from the VMS SIG has posted 5 of the old DEC commercials on
his blog site, thanks Aaron.
http://openvms.hobby-site.com/pivot/entry.php?id=41
--------------
3.6 Humor - http://www.kcbx.net/~tellswor/stupid-b.htm
_____________________________________________
4.0 User Groups
4.1 CANADA
4.1.2 Anyone has Parts for a DEC Rainbow? There is a computer museum
in Brantford, Ontario that's looking for a Rainbow PC100
http://groups.msn.com/DECCanadaAlumni/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=361
4.1.3 Technical Seminar in the Fall? It has been a relatively quiet
summer thus far on the Encompass Canada front. But since reality has
it that we can be expecting snow within 10 weeks from now, we are
exploring the possibility of planning a technical seminar before we
approach winter. Since we have already hosted events in Montreal,
Toronto and Edmonton earlier this year, we are looking at other major
Canadian centers for this fall event. Anyone with ideas, suggestions
or interests, please feel free to contact us at:
inquire@encompasscanada.org
------------------
4.2 UNITED STATES
4.2.2 Encompass Board of Directors Elections 2008 http://www.encompassus.org/about/election/
4.2.3 To find a Local User Group is the US near you
http://www.encompassus.org/community/lugs/manager/
4.2.4 SIG's Special Interest Groups
http://www.encompassus.org/community/sigs/
4.2.4 Blogs
http://main.blogs.encompassus.org/
_____________________________
5.0 Training
PARSEC Group is hosting Webinars again. Please visit www.parsec.com/openvms
& www.parsec.com/unix for the schedules. The next OpenVMS Webinar is
August 29, 2007 entitled Introduction to System Dump Analyzer (SDA).
_____________________________________
6.0 Jobs
I am looking for an OpenVMS Sys Admin on-site in the DC area. While
this may be full time, it would be a contract position for 12-16
months.
att the && signs added by Sue take them out to respond
Please have anyone interested contact me at
&&&&&rbaldermann@Parsec.com.
Regards,
www.parsec.com
www.openvmsplanet.org
_______________________________________
In the Press
http://www.hardwarezone.com/news/view.php?id=8176&cid=11
HP Integrity Servers Achieve Better Business Outcomes
http://www.serverwatch.com/news/article.php/3693681
LinuxWorld Expands to the Virtual Realm
------------------------------
End of INFO-VAX 2007.457
************************