INFO-VAX Fri, 17 Aug 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 450 Contents: Re: Alpha/Integrity Dead Pool Re: Alpha/Integrity Dead Pool Re: Alpha/Integrity Dead Pool Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Re: Fun with bugs Re: Fun with bugs Re: Fun with bugs Re: Fun with bugs Re: Fun with bugs Requirement looking for VMS/C++ Developer, St Louis, MO, 6 -12 months Contract t Re: Which version of SSH? Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Re: Write locked file ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 04:02:32 -0700 From: "AlexNOSPAMDaniels@themail.co.uk" Subject: Re: Alpha/Integrity Dead Pool Message-ID: <1187348552.054515.245990@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com> On 15 Aug, 17:28, "FredK" wrote: > > HasPOWEReven been considered at *any* time?? Or was there a decision > > "It must be Intel!" and later on "What architecture to choose?" > > They didn't bring me into the discussions, so I can't say. Nor was it a VMS > decision. It was a high level corporate decision by Compaq. But get > serious and ask yourself the question of why Compaq (or HP for that matter) > would want to rely on IBM for their large systems business? Why didn't IBM > adopt Alpha rather than invest inPower? >Why doesn't SUN adoptPOWER instead of the slowly dying SPARC? Sun are working with IBM to make Solaris run on IBM's x86 boxes, and port it to POWER. http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=41755 Alex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 08:23:18 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Alpha/Integrity Dead Pool Message-ID: <46C59336.5050807@comcast.net> AlexNOSPAMDaniels@themail.co.uk wrote: > On 15 Aug, 17:28, "FredK" wrote: > >>>HasPOWEReven been considered at *any* time?? Or was there a decision >>>"It must be Intel!" and later on "What architecture to choose?" >> >>They didn't bring me into the discussions, so I can't say. Nor was it a VMS >>decision. It was a high level corporate decision by Compaq. But get >>serious and ask yourself the question of why Compaq (or HP for that matter) >>would want to rely on IBM for their large systems business? Why didn't IBM >>adopt Alpha rather than invest inPower? > > >>Why doesn't SUN adoptPOWER instead of the slowly dying SPARC? > > > Sun are working with IBM to make Solaris run on IBM's x86 boxes, and > port it > to POWER. > > http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=41755 > > Alex > Solaris has been running on X86 boxes for years now! AFAIK there is nothing special about IBM's X86 boxes that would require any special support other than things like graphics drivers. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 05:38:01 -0700 From: "AlexNOSPAMDaniels@themail.co.uk" Subject: Re: Alpha/Integrity Dead Pool Message-ID: <1187354281.047619.86330@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> On 17 Aug, 13:23, "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote: > AlexNOSPAMDani...@themail.co.uk wrote: > > On 15 Aug, 17:28, "FredK" wrote: > > >>>HasPOWEReven been considered at *any* time?? Or was there a decision > >>>"It must be Intel!" and later on "What architecture to choose?" > > >>They didn't bring me into the discussions, so I can't say. Nor was it a VMS > >>decision. It was a high level corporate decision by Compaq. But get > >>serious and ask yourself the question of why Compaq (or HP for that matter) > >>would want to rely on IBM for their large systems business? Why didn't IBM > >>adopt Alpha rather than invest inPower? > > >>Why doesn't SUN adoptPOWER instead of the slowly dying SPARC? > > > Sun are working with IBM to make Solaris run on IBM's x86 boxes, and > > port it > > to POWER. > > >http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=41755 > > > Alex > > Solaris has been running on X86 boxes for years now! AFAIK there is > nothing special about IBM's X86 boxes that would require any special > support other than things like graphics drivers. Sure, but prior to this announcement there was no offical tie-up in place, now there is. IBM will be an OEM for Solaris and will be able to offer service subsciptions. The more interesting part of the announcement is regarding the port of Solaris to POWER. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/16/sun_ibm_solarisx86/ A quote from the article.. "This arrangement provides Sun with its first real Tier 1 OEM partner on the Solaris x86 front. In addition, the two companies have decided to examine Solaris running on IBM's mainframes and even - gasp - its Power-based systems." Alex ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 05:23:39 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: <1187353419.635280.280010@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> On Aug 13, 2:43 pm, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > In article <130820070946381392%nos...@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper [...] > > > To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ > > I think requiring potential takers to know Teco is taking things a bit > too far, though! In case anyone can't follow the above, it's a Teco > command and the "$" is what the terminal shows when escape (CTRL-[) is > entered; put the munged address into a file and fire up edit/teco on it! I give up. Please tell me how to use TECO to demunge the secret code. I put it in a file, ran EDIT/TECO, and nothing. Typed it in to the * as a command, nothing. Please give a clear, detailed answer. Thanks! AEF ------------------------------ Date: 17 Aug 2007 12:54:33 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: <5ilk49F3p6tlgU1@mid.individual.net> In article <1187353419.635280.280010@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, AEF writes: > On Aug 13, 2:43 pm, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- > remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: >> In article <130820070946381392%nos...@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper > [...] >> >> > To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ >> >> I think requiring potential takers to know Teco is taking things a bit >> too far, though! In case anyone can't follow the above, it's a Teco >> command and the "$" is what the terminal shows when escape (CTRL-[) is >> entered; put the munged address into a file and fire up edit/teco on it! > > I give up. Please tell me how to use TECO to demunge the secret code. > I put it in a file, ran EDIT/TECO, and nothing. Typed it in to the * > as a command, nothing. > > Please give a clear, detailed answer. > > Thanks! Put nospam@yrl.co.uk in your editor. type fsnospam[ESC]elliott[ESC][ESC] fs = find/substitute [ESC] the escape key is the command key separating the two strings and a double [ESC] is the execute key. Of course, you should be able to see what it does without doing anything. It is a simple text substitution. bill (Who stopped using TECO in the PDP-11 days before the first VAX saw the light of day!!) -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:19:44 +0100 From: Elliott Roper Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: <170820071419444158%nospam@yrl.co.uk> In article <5ilk49F3p6tlgU1@mid.individual.net>, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article <1187353419.635280.280010@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, > AEF writes: > > On Aug 13, 2:43 pm, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- > > remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > >> In article <130820070946381392%nos...@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper > > [...] > >> > >> > To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ > >> > >> I think requiring potential takers to know Teco is taking things a bit > >> too far, though! In case anyone can't follow the above, it's a Teco > >> command and the "$" is what the terminal shows when escape (CTRL-[) is > >> entered; put the munged address into a file and fire up edit/teco on it! > > > > I give up. Please tell me how to use TECO to demunge the secret code. > > I put it in a file, ran EDIT/TECO, and nothing. Typed it in to the * > > as a command, nothing. > > > > Please give a clear, detailed answer. > > > > Thanks! > > Put nospam@yrl.co.uk in your editor. > type fsnospam[ESC]elliott[ESC][ESC] > > fs = find/substitute > [ESC] the escape key is the command key separating the two strings > and a double [ESC] is the execute key. > > Of course, you should be able to see what it does without doing anything. > It is a simple text substitution. Indeed! I guess that's why I figgered it was too easy a "good home" test. > > bill > (Who stopped using TECO in the PDP-11 days before the first VAX saw > the light of day!!) It's the same reason I kept on using teco. It was the one editor common to Tops-10 OS/8 RSX and VMS. I'm using emacs on OS X now, I'm ashamed to relate. It is bit verbose, and the syntax colouring is a bit girly, but it has the same unforgiving nature that you grow to love in teco. ;-) Translating the e-mail addy is a bit of a waste now. Almost all the good stuff is gone. I have three semi-broken Alpha 4/100's , one DECServer 200, 2 VLCs, and a broken Alpha 3000. Oh, and a pile of CRT monitors that is not getting too much attention. -- To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 06:44:51 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: <1187358291.392455.54020@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> On Aug 17, 8:54 am, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article <1187353419.635280.280010@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>, > AEF writes: > > > > > On Aug 13, 2:43 pm, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- > > remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > >> In article <130820070946381392%nos...@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper > > [...] > > >> > To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ > > >> I think requiring potential takers to know Teco is taking things a bit > >> too far, though! In case anyone can't follow the above, it's a Teco > >> command and the "$" is what the terminal shows when escape (CTRL-[) is > >> entered; put the munged address into a file and fire up edit/teco on it! > > > I give up. Please tell me how to use TECO to demunge the secret code. > > I put it in a file, ran EDIT/TECO, and nothing. Typed it in to the * > > as a command, nothing. > > > Please give a clear, detailed answer. > > > Thanks! > > Put nospam@yrl.co.uk in your editor. > type fsnospam[ESC]elliott[ESC][ESC] > > fs = find/substitute > [ESC] the escape key is the command key separating the two strings > and a double [ESC] is the execute key. > > Of course, you should be able to see what it does without doing anything. > It is a simple text substitution. > > bill > (Who stopped using TECO in the PDP-11 days before the first VAX saw > the light of day!!) > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Got it. Thanks. (Slaps bottom of palm on forehead. I could have had a V8!) AEF ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:59:42 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: <46C5A9CE.9090107@comcast.net> AEF wrote: > On Aug 13, 2:43 pm, hel...@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig--- > remove CLOTHES to reply) wrote: > >>In article <130820070946381392%nos...@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper > > [...] > >>>To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ >> >>I think requiring potential takers to know Teco is taking things a bit >>too far, though! In case anyone can't follow the above, it's a Teco >>command and the "$" is what the terminal shows when escape (CTRL-[) is >>entered; put the munged address into a file and fire up edit/teco on it! > > > I give up. Please tell me how to use TECO to demunge the secret code. > I put it in a file, ran EDIT/TECO, and nothing. Typed it in to the * > as a command, nothing. > > Please give a clear, detailed answer. > > Thanks! > > AEF > A clear, detailed answer to a question about TECO is almost a contradiction in terms! TECO is one of the more arcane text editors. It is Unix-like in that it is "terse, cryptic, and dangerous". If you don't know what you are doing, be certain to have a current backup! I'm not saying that it will corrupt or delete all your files, but IT CAN! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:25:41 +0100 From: Elliott Roper Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: <170820071525411593%nospam@yrl.co.uk> In article <46C5A9CE.9090107@comcast.net>, Richard B. Gilbert wrote: > A clear, detailed answer to a question about TECO is almost a > contradiction in terms! TECO is one of the more arcane text editors. It > is Unix-like in that it is "terse, cryptic, and dangerous". If you > don't know what you are doing, be certain to have a current backup! I'm > not saying that it will corrupt or delete all your files, but IT CAN! Amusing, but unfair to teco. There are very few programs whose commands are as precise and predictable. And, did I mention, terse. Teco has remarkably few unintended side-effects, in fact, remarkably few side-effects, a claim that could not be made about vi or EVE say. One of the more famous side-effects, loved by non-teco users, was to render runoff output editable again simply by reading and saving the file. Or, more precisely, erfile$ex$$ It did so by fixing the non-standard line terminators that runoff created on some systems. -- To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:05:34 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: In article <170820071525411593%nospam@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper wrote: > In article <46C5A9CE.9090107@comcast.net>, Richard B. Gilbert > wrote: > > A clear, detailed answer to a question about TECO is almost a > > contradiction in terms! TECO is one of the more arcane text editors. It > > is Unix-like in that it is "terse, cryptic, and dangerous". If you > > don't know what you are doing, be certain to have a current backup! I'm > > not saying that it will corrupt or delete all your files, but IT CAN! > > Amusing, but unfair to teco. There are very few programs whose commands > are as precise and predictable. And, did I mention, terse. > Teco has remarkably few unintended side-effects, in fact, remarkably > few side-effects, a claim that could not be made about vi or EVE say. > > One of the more famous side-effects, loved by non-teco users, was to > render runoff output editable again simply by reading and saving the > file. Or, more precisely, erfile$ex$$ It did so by fixing the > non-standard line terminators that runoff created on some systems. Yep, I've got a command procedure which does just that. This is it in EDT screen mode: $ runoff 'p1' ! .rno assumed $ edit/teco 'p1'.mem ex $ define /user sys$input sys$command $ edit/tpu 'p1'.mem ! to proof read the output For those who don't know, the output from RUNOFF contains pairs e.g. 1 TEST TO DEMONSTRATE PAIRS IN A RUNOFF FILE The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog. The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog. The printer driver strips the extraneous pairs, but they ain't pretty in an e-mail. The teco above strips them out. -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:31:32 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: <46C5BF54.2090400@comcast.net> Elliott Roper wrote: > In article <46C5A9CE.9090107@comcast.net>, Richard B. Gilbert > wrote: > >>A clear, detailed answer to a question about TECO is almost a >>contradiction in terms! TECO is one of the more arcane text editors. It >>is Unix-like in that it is "terse, cryptic, and dangerous". If you >>don't know what you are doing, be certain to have a current backup! I'm >>not saying that it will corrupt or delete all your files, but IT CAN! > > > Amusing, but unfair to teco. There are very few programs whose commands > are as precise and predictable. And, did I mention, terse. > Teco has remarkably few unintended side-effects, in fact, remarkably > few side-effects, a claim that could not be made about vi or EVE say. > > One of the more famous side-effects, loved by non-teco users, was to > render runoff output editable again simply by reading and saving the > file. Or, more precisely, erfile$ex$$ It did so by fixing the > non-standard line terminators that runoff created on some systems. > Hmmm! ISTR that my one and only use of TECO was to remove unwanted LF line terminators from a file. It's been quite a few years since I needed to use RUNOFF for anything. . . . I used to work at Princeton years ago and RUNOFF was what passed for word processing in those days; you keypunched your text and fed your deck to the IBM mainframe and got back, if you did everything right, nicely formatted, mixed case, text. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:14:06 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: In article <5ilk49F3p6tlgU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: > Put nospam@yrl.co.uk in your editor. > type fsnospam[ESC]elliott[ESC][ESC] ^^^^ At the TECO prompt. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:16:09 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: In article <170820071419444158%nospam@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper writes: > I'm using emacs on OS X now, I'm ashamed to relate. > It is bit verbose, and the syntax colouring is a bit girly, but it has > the same unforgiving nature that you grow to love in teco. ;-) The best thing about Emacs is the EDT emulation! > Translating the e-mail addy is a bit of a waste now. Almost all the > good stuff is gone. I have three semi-broken Alpha 4/100's , one > DECServer 200, 2 VLCs, and a broken Alpha 3000. Oh, and a pile of CRT > monitors that is not getting too much attention. I didn't look at the monitors because a) I have enough and b) they do take up space. However, it might be worth describing them (colour, size etc) for folks not familiar with the names, part numbers etc. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Aug 2007 16:20:51 GMT From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: <5im073F3q796hU1@mid.individual.net> In article , helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) writes: > In article <5ilk49F3p6tlgU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill > Gunshannon) writes: > >> Put nospam@yrl.co.uk in your editor. >> type fsnospam[ESC]elliott[ESC][ESC] > ^^^^ > At the TECO prompt. Well, I did say "in your editor" and we were talking about TECO. :-) bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 18:28:52 +0100 From: Elliott Roper Subject: Re: Free to good home. Microvaxes, Vaxstations, Alphas Message-ID: <170820071828529913%nospam@yrl.co.uk> In article , Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > In article <170820071419444158%nospam@yrl.co.uk>, Elliott Roper > writes: > > > I'm using emacs on OS X now, I'm ashamed to relate. > > It is bit verbose, and the syntax colouring is a bit girly, but it has > > the same unforgiving nature that you grow to love in teco. ;-) > > The best thing about Emacs is the EDT emulation! SHUDDER!! The best thing about emacs was that it was originally a set of teco macros (for MIT teco, not DEC teco) > > > Translating the e-mail addy is a bit of a waste now. Almost all the > > good stuff is gone. I have three semi-broken Alpha 4/100's , one > > DECServer 200, 2 VLCs, and a broken Alpha 3000. Oh, and a pile of CRT > > monitors that is not getting too much attention. > > I didn't look at the monitors because a) I have enough and b) they do > take up space. However, it might be worth describing them (colour, > size etc) for folks not familiar with the names, part numbers etc. Thanks for your advice Phillip. Most of the kit has found good homes. The remaining monitors are in unknown condition and all their cables have gone. Amazingly, the VT320's and 420's were in great demand. I have three 420's left, all the others are colour CRTs VRT17-HA stylee, one or two of the older ones, but I think at least one is busted. -- To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 23:06:41 -0700 From: Joshua Lehrer Subject: Re: Fun with bugs Message-ID: <1187330801.381042.178240@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com> Here is a very simple C++ program that crashes on Itanium and runs fine under ALPHA: #include int main(int argc, char **argv) { try { struct TestTypeInfo { ~TestTypeInfo() { typeid(int).name(); } } t; throw (int)1; } catch (int) { } } While unwinding the stack due to an exception you can not attempt to fetch the demangled typename of a builtin type/pointer. -J ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:48:09 -0700 From: FrankS Subject: Re: Fun with bugs Message-ID: <1187347689.527852.161700@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com> On Aug 17, 2:06 am, Joshua Lehrer wrote: > Here is a very simple C++ program that crashes on Itanium and runs > fine under ALPHA: > > #include > > int main(int argc, char **argv) { > try { > struct TestTypeInfo { > ~TestTypeInfo() { > typeid(int).name(); > } > } t; > throw (int)1; > } catch (int) { > } > > } > > While unwinding the stack due to an exception you can not attempt to > fetch the demangled typename of a builtin type/pointer. > > -J I'm pretty sure the Alpha -> Itanium porting notes mention the (significant) differences in how stack unwinding should be handled. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 07:42:05 -0700 From: DeanW Subject: Re: Fun with bugs Message-ID: <3f119ada0708170742p40db809bs3b3967cc0d56fde3@mail.gmail.com> On 8/16/07, Ron Johnson wrote: > On 08/16/07 19:57, DeanW wrote: > [snip] > > IF ( ExtFlag = TRUE ) THEN MyFlag := True; > > Whatever happened the simple > MyFlag := ( ExtFlag = TRUE ); > > Works in C, DCL & Python. It should work in Pascal. THe actual case isn't nearly so simple; what I've called ExtFlag in the example isn't a boolean, amongst other things. Long term, I've changed the MyFlag declaration: MyFlag : BOOLEAN VALUE FALSE; and added an ELSE statement so it gets a default, and is ensured to be assigned a variable. This was made more entertaining by the inability to run a debugger on it; the code is the back end for a GUI front end, and the server I'm working on is three hops away- that is, I have to log into my dev server (which is 1200 miles from me), SSH to the customer's current production server (which is only 40 miles from me), from which I can get their soon to be production machine. Isn't the internet grand? And, of course, the fact that this error happens well above where I was working, so I just wasn't looking there until I forced myself to understand that my code just wasn't executing because MyFlag was somehow wrong... Bob's probably right- somehow, it's just always worked on Alpha that the uninitialized variable has returned FALSE, and on the new IA64 machine it's consistently returned TRUE. If I ever get into this code on the ALPHA, I'll fix it- but with luck, that machine will be redundant before that fix could ever make it through their production release cycle. That said, there's a former employee of our company who is infamous for exactly this sort of thing, and there's at least one other area I can think of where this same type of bug might be biting me. I'm headed there next, and now I've got a clue should similar phenomena (code that should be running, but doesn't) come up in testing. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:33:16 +0200 From: "P. Sture" Subject: Re: Fun with bugs Message-ID: In article <3f119ada0708170742p40db809bs3b3967cc0d56fde3@mail.gmail.com>, DeanW wrote: > On 8/16/07, Ron Johnson wrote: > > On 08/16/07 19:57, DeanW wrote: > > [snip] > > > IF ( ExtFlag = TRUE ) THEN MyFlag := True; > > > > Whatever happened the simple > > MyFlag := ( ExtFlag = TRUE ); > > > > Works in C, DCL & Python. It should work in Pascal. > > THe actual case isn't nearly so simple; what I've called ExtFlag in > the example isn't a boolean, amongst other things. > > Long term, I've changed the MyFlag declaration: > MyFlag : BOOLEAN VALUE FALSE; > and added an ELSE statement so it gets a default, and is ensured to be > assigned a variable. > > This was made more entertaining by the inability to run a debugger on > it; the code is the back end for a GUI front end, and the server I'm > working on is three hops away- that is, I have to log into my dev > server (which is 1200 miles from me), SSH to the customer's current > production server (which is only 40 miles from me), from which I can > get their soon to be production machine. Isn't the internet grand? > And, of course, the fact that this error happens well above where I > was working, so I just wasn't looking there until I forced myself to > understand that my code just wasn't executing because MyFlag was > somehow wrong... > > Bob's probably right- somehow, it's just always worked on Alpha that > the uninitialized variable has returned FALSE, and on the new IA64 > machine it's consistently returned TRUE. If I ever get into this code > on the ALPHA, I'll fix it- but with luck, that machine will be > redundant before that fix could ever make it through their production > release cycle. That said, there's a former employee of our company who > is infamous for exactly this sort of thing, and there's at least one > other area I can think of where this same type of bug might be biting > me. I'm headed there next, and now I've got a clue should similar > phenomena (code that should be running, but doesn't) come up in > testing. Thanks for sharing your story. You have reminded me of another programmer, many moons ago, who was lax in initializing variables. The worst example I can think of was an order entry program which didn't initialize the order entry file record buffer. Since there were 5 order lines per physical record (to fit nicely into a block), many of the records contained irrelevant data tagged onto the end. This actually ran fine, as all the programs dealing with the orders file counted items off by using a count held in the header, but it really was a time bomb ticking! -- Paul Sture Sue's OpenVMS bookmarks: http://eisner.encompasserve.org/~sture/ovms-bookmarks.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:08:12 -0400 From: John Reagan Subject: Re: Fun with bugs Message-ID: DeanW wrote: > > You're right- you should never rely on an undeclared variable. See > above re: dinner and beers. Excuse me now, I need to bandage my > forehead... > Try /USAGE=ALL ... well, actually just /USAGE=(UNCERTAIN, UNINITIALIZED) UNINITIALIZED is on by default, but UNCERTAIN is not due to the false positives. However, from time to time, I've used it in desperation when confronted with a bug that "moves around". -- John Reagan OpenVMS Pascal/Macro-32/COBOL Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 07:13:05 -0700 From: san Subject: Requirement looking for VMS/C++ Developer, St Louis, MO, 6 -12 months Contract t Message-ID: <1187359985.897270.7920@l22g2000prc.googlegroups.com> Hi, This is Santhosh from ECOM Consultants... We have an requirement looking for VMS/C++ Developers. Please provide your interest with your updated resume ASAP. Expecting your positive reply. Positions: 10 positions Duration: 6 - 12 Months Contract to Hire Location: St Louis, MO Project Details: The Client is looking for VMS/C++ Developer. The long term plan will be for all of these individuals to enhance some existing legacy apps that eventually will all migrate to C++ and the individuals will be retrained in C++. Thanks & Regards, Santhosh Natarajan | Phone 248 436 8451 Ext 209 | Fax 248 430 4456 Email: santhosh@ecomconsultantsinc.com Website: www.ecomconsultantsinc.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 00:09:01 -0700 From: "hanblo {at} netscape.net" Subject: Re: Which version of SSH? Message-ID: <1187334541.809922.169990@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> On Aug 16, 10:01 pm, b...@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote: > In article , > Gilles Pion writes: > > > Ref: <1187268509.272494.307...@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com> de "hanblo {at} > > netscape.net" > >>Hello, > >>I'm setting up a connection from an OpenVMS machine to a Linux one. > >>The application owner wants to run sftp, so I said OK, no problem. But > >>I couldn't get it working until the firewall administrator allowed SSH > >>V1 traffic to pass. > > > Strange since SSH V1 and SSH V2 use the same port by default (22) > > Just guessing as I don't know what he is running there but, many of todays > "firewalls" can identify the content of the trafiic and can block particular > items. The University does it here to block peer-to-peer music sharing. > I think our box is called "Packeteer". (Not advocating such behavior as > this particular one with the way it is configured breaks many of the > pieces of TCP/IP forcing me to find ways to beat their system. :-) > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > b...@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include Hello again, It's not a matter of port, but as Bill G pointed out, a firewall identifying the traffic and normally set up to disallow SSH V1. But again, how do I (if possible) force SSH to use V2? Regards Hans Blom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 06:03:49 -0700 From: Andrew Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion Message-ID: <1187355829.903714.14270@a39g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> On 16 Aug, 14:38, "Main, Kerry" wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Raulerson [mailto:p...@raulersons.com] > > Sent: August 16, 2007 12:54 AM > > To: Main, Kerry; Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com > > Subject: RE: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal > > champion > > > If you get the chance, check out PSI running Windows 2008 on Itanium. > > The beginning of AppStacking under Windows for sure. > > > Sweet - add and take away processes dynamically. And Windows > > understands > > it happening. :) > > > -Paul > > > > Huh? Who said anything about "flocking to OpenVMS?" > > > > However, since you brought it up, the number one server consolidation > > > target by > > > far in almost every med to large company to today is Windows. > > > Unfortunately, > > > because of the one app, one server culture and platform technology > > > challenges, > > > it is not considered viable to consolidate with App stacking on > > > Windows, so prod's > > > like VMware are going through the roof. > > I am sure there will be technical enhancements in the future which will make App > stacking on Windows (and Linux) more feasible, but the biggest challenge they face > is the Windows culture and ISV's, end users, support types not wanting to share > apps on the same system. > > And of course, one of the critical technologies associated with App stacking is > a good and reliable workload management sub-system - either in the kernel or via > some add-on product. This might also be called a class scheduler which I suspect > you likely know a thing or two about with experience from the mainframe world .. > While it may well be true that Linux and Windows lack reliable workload management the same cannot be said for UNIX which has supported this for some time. Solaris has Zones/Containers hooked into workload management, while both HP-UX and AIX also have support for workload managers although without the container type features of Solaris. All the major commercial UNIX platforms allow administrators to restrict the amount of resource used by an application to a share of the system ensuring that all apps get the service they need. In the case of Solaris the apps can be running in a container which looks like another instance of the OS but in fact isn't. BSD Jails are very similar to Solaris Zones/Containers. > :-) > > For the benefit of others, workload balancing via class schedulers are designed > to ensure that one process does not do something dumb and take over the system > thus impacting other applications. > > Regards > > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant > HP Services Canada > Voice: 613-592-4660 > Fax: 613-591-4477 > kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom > (remove the DOT's and AT) > > OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:19:21 +0000 (UTC) From: helbig@astro.multiCLOTHESvax.de (Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply) Subject: Re: Write locked file Message-ID: In article <13c8k7978crk67b@corp.supernews.com>, "Mike Minor" writes: > I have a situation where a .txt file is in a write locked state, but I can't > find the process that has the file locked. I have tried the following > commands to no avail: On all nodes? ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.450 ************************