INFO-VAX Wed, 08 Aug 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 431
Contents:
"DS10L" giveaway
Alpha/Integrity versions of VMS.
RE: Alpha/Integrity versions of VMS.
Re: Alpha/Integrity versions of VMS.
Re: Alpha/Integrity versions of VMS.
Re: Alpha/Integrity versions of VMS.
Re: Alpha/Integrity versions of VMS.
Re: Alpha/Integrity versions of VMS.
Re: Alpha/Integrity versions of VMS.
Re: DLTIV in SDLT Drive
DS10L Giveaway for August
Re: DS10L Giveaway for August
Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Re: File Version limit Reset
Re: File Version limit Reset
Re: How can I create symbol thru Perl "system" command?
Re: How can I create symbol thru Perl "system" command?
Re: How can I create symbol thru Perl "system" command?
Re: How can I create symbol thru Perl "system" command?
Re: How can I create symbol thru Perl "system" command?
Re: How can I create symbol thru Perl "system" command?
Re: How can I create symbol thru Perl "system" command?
Re: How much will Integrity cost?
RE: HP Datatrieve info contradictory
Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive
Re: Integrity Workstations?
Re: Integrity Workstations?
Re: Layered products not available on IA64
Re: LDAP tools for VMS
Re: LDAP tools for VMS
Re: Linux (was Re: How many people here use Itanium w VMS)
Re: Maximum Java Heap Size/OpenVMS Java Experiences?
Re: OPA0 messages
Re: OPA0 messages
Re: OPA0 messages
Re: OPA0 messages
Re: OPA0 messages
Re: OPA0 messages
Re: OPA0 messages
Re: OPA0 messages
Re: OPA0 messages
OpenVMS and Smart Array Controllers
Reflection-X and DEC fonts
Re: Reflection-X and DEC fonts
Reflection/Reflection-X V10.0 and LK461 keyboard anomalies
Re: Rexx for OpenVMS
RE: Rexx for OpenVMS
Re: Suggestion: F$FAO question
Re: Suggestion: F$FAO question
Re: TPU on MAC OS-X ?
Re: TPU on MAC OS-X ?
Re: TPU on MAC OS-X ?
Re: TPU on MAC OS-X ?
Re: VMS cluster behind a *NIX firewall
Re: VMS OS req'd progression
RE: VMS OS req'd progression
Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion
Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion
Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion
Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 22:37:16 GMT
From: "Jeffrey H. Coffield" <jeffrey@digitalsynergyinc.com>
Subject: "DS10L" giveaway
Message-ID: <46B8F234.3060601@digitalsynergyinc.com>
David,
I'd like to enter for the DS10l giveaway.
We talked a week or so ago about LK keyboards. They are available from
HP as part number AB552A as a keyboard and mouse kit.
Jeff Coffield
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:56:29 -0700
From: tadamsmar <tadamsmar@yahoo.com>
Subject: Alpha/Integrity versions of VMS.
Message-ID: <1186516589.054363.88340@b79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
Looks like 8.3 is a common version.
Will that be the last?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 20:46:41 +0000
From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Alpha/Integrity versions of VMS.
Message-ID: <C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BDD0910B77A@G1W0487.americas.hpqcorp.net>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tadamsmar [mailto:tadamsmar@yahoo.com]
> Sent: August 7, 2007 3:56 PM
> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
> Subject: Alpha/Integrity versions of VMS.
>
> Looks like 8.3 is a common version.
>
> Will that be the last?
Course not.
Why would you think that?
There has always been hardware specific releases of OpenVMS that are primar=
ily designed to accommodate new hardware systems. V8.3-1H1 is such an examp=
le (heavy focus on new blade server support).
OpenVMS roadmaps are available at:
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm
Regards
Kerry Main
Senior Consultant
HP Services Canada
Voice: 613-592-4660
Fax: 613-591-4477
kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
(remove the DOT's and AT)
OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 16:54:16 -0400
From: norm.raphael@metso.com
Subject: Re: Alpha/Integrity versions of VMS.
Message-ID: <OFB50A9C5C.64FA5CF3-ON85257330.0072CE97-85257330.0072D51E@metso.com>
tadamsmar <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> wrote on 08/07/2007 03:56:29 PM:
> Looks like 8.3 is a common version.
>
> Will that be the last?
>
Why would you ask that?
------------------------------
Date: 7 Aug 2007 16:06:08 -0500
From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)
Subject: Re: Alpha/Integrity versions of VMS.
Message-ID: <0Ae4IDmkJFDu@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In article <1186516589.054363.88340@b79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, tadamsmar <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> writes:
> Looks like 8.3 is a common version.
>
> Will that be the last?
>
According to the roadmaps 8.3 is neither the last version in common
between Alpha and IA-64, nor the last version. In fact neither the
last version nor the last version in common are even in the plan.
The only "last" that I can see is the possibility that 7.3 might be
the last for VAX, but I have good reason to doubt that.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:08:07 -0700
From: Bob Gezelter <gezelter@rlgsc.com>
Subject: Re: Alpha/Integrity versions of VMS.
Message-ID: <1186520887.798600.221430@b79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 7, 2:56 pm, tadamsmar <tadams...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Looks like 8.3 is a common version.
>
> Will that be the last?
tadamsmar,
As has been noted, the roadmap for OpenVMS in the future.
When looking at the roadmap, please remember that HP corporate has
legal reasons for limiting the published horizons. The ending date of
the roadmap is what they can publish, it does not imply that the world
ends on the last date on the roadmap. (Even though I do not, and have
not, worked for HP/Compaq/Digital, I have seen that misunderstanding
often enough that I am commenting on it pre-emptively to avoid
confusion).
- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:31:06 -0400
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Subject: Re: Alpha/Integrity versions of VMS.
Message-ID: <ce4c9$46b90eca$cef8887a$25546@TEKSAVVY.COM>
Bob Koehler wrote:
> According to the roadmaps 8.3 is neither the last version in common
> between Alpha and IA-64, nor the last version. In fact neither the
> last version nor the last version in common are even in the plan.
In the last couple of weeks, I have seen hints tha IA64 would start to
see new features that Alpha wouldn't. (such as support for new PCI boards).
And it won't be long before VMS management starts to claim that they are
not seeing demand for new versions of VMS on Alpha (the same claim that
was used to justify killing the promise of a V8.* on VAX.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:37:07 -0400
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Subject: Re: Alpha/Integrity versions of VMS.
Message-ID: <7f3a6$46b91034$cef8887a$25887@TEKSAVVY.COM>
Bob Gezelter wrote:
> When looking at the roadmap, please remember that HP corporate has
> legal reasons for limiting the published horizons. The ending date of
> the roadmap is what they can publish,
And please remember that the roadmap is not a garantee and that HP can
decide to change it as radically a it wishes any day it wants without
warning.
And even when the owner of VMS commits publically to something, it
usually finds some way out of that promise a couple years later.
The only thing that may be safe right now is assume that if we are at
8.3, that should then totally give up on VMS tomorrow, they would
probably still produce 8.4 since it was in the pipeline already.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 21:21:34 -0400
From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@dec.com>
Subject: Re: Alpha/Integrity versions of VMS.
Message-ID: <f9b5r0$97m$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>
"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote in message
news:ce4c9$46b90eca$cef8887a$25546@TEKSAVVY.COM...
> Bob Koehler wrote:
>> According to the roadmaps 8.3 is neither the last version in common
>> between Alpha and IA-64, nor the last version. In fact neither the
>> last version nor the last version in common are even in the plan.
>
> In the last couple of weeks, I have seen hints tha IA64 would start to see
> new features that Alpha wouldn't. (such as support for new PCI boards).
>
Knock, knock.
Who's there?
Not JF's common sense.
Alpha and Integrity share a common code base. But that doesn't mean that we
are going to go back and attempt to build/qual new HARDWARE devices on
Alpha. Just like we didn't qualify new HARDWARE on OLD Alphas either. New
hardware support on Alpha often required SRM support as well.
A *feature* that is uncoupled from new HARDWARE is usually easier to simply
leave in than to try to make it IA64 only. There are some features that
will occur simply because they take advantage of capabilities that do not
exist on Alpha.
New device support might actually find itself on Alpha releases - but not
supported. Consider the USB support. We do NOTHING to prevent the code
from building and shipping on Alpha - but we do not QUALIFY it on Alpha -
unless there was a compelling CUSTOMER reason for formal support. With a
simple change in kitting - we didn't *have* to ship any of the new USB
stuff.
> And it won't be long before VMS management starts to claim that they are
> not seeing demand for new versions of VMS on Alpha (the same claim that
> was used to justify killing the promise of a V8.* on VAX.)
The top 3 goals for VAX are stability, stability, stability.
Alpha will continue to get functional releases for a long time. Integrity
will get releases for new HW features in between functional releases.
In the long run, Alpha someday will reach the same point as VAX... where
it's top 3 goals become the same as VAX at which point you will see very,
very few releases. When will that happen? I have no idea, and as far as I
know - nobody has even considered that far out.
Perhaps long enough that you will stop predicting the end of VMS. Or
telling people to stop buying VMS. Or bad mouthing Integrity...
Nah.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 03:34:10 GMT
From: dittman@dittman.net
Subject: Re: DLTIV in SDLT Drive
Message-ID: <SQaui.6491$vK2.1640@trnddc03>
dittman@dittman.net wrote:
> healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:
> > dittman@dittman.net wrote:
> > > According to Quantum you can read DLT IV media in a SDLT320 drive. I've
> > > read there are issues with reading DLT IV media in SDLT320 drives with
> > > old firmware so upgrading to a newer firmware might be necessary.
> > You are supposed to be able to read two versions back with any given drive.
> > The SDLT320's should be able to read DLT IV media written in a DLT8000
> > drive, but can't. Also I'm told the S4 drives can read SDLT600 tapes, but
> > can't read data written on an SDLT320 drive (our group doesn't have S4
> > drives yet).
> Here's Quantum's online "Media Compatibility Tool":
> http://www.quantum.com/mediaanswers/wheel.html
> It looks like real-world results don't match since that shows DLT IV tapes
> written on DLT4000 through DLT8000 drives as being readable in an SDLT320
> and SDLT1 tapes written on a SDLT320 drive as being readable in a DLT-S4
> drive. We just had the firmware upgraded on our SDLT320 drives and they
> still won't read the DLT IV tapes but the vendor says it should work so
> they are sending someone out tomorrow to investigate.
Testing shows that real Quantum DLT IV tapes are readable by our SDLT320
drives but the drives have problems loading non-Quantum DLT IV tapes.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 13:57:45 -0400
From: "David Turner, Island Computers" <dturner@no-spam-islandco.com>
Subject: DS10L Giveaway for August
Message-ID: <13bhcjsmdin0v75@news.supernews.com>
Doing it again
For all those that might want one send us an email
with "DS10L" giveaway in the subject line
The system will be configured as follows:
DS10L 466Mhz
Dual Ethernet
512MB Memory
30GB IDE disk
No CDROM or Floppy
One "open" PCI slot 32/64 bit
--
David B Turner
Island Computers US Corp
2700 Gregory St, Suite 180
Savannah GA 31404
T: 877-6364332 x201
Intl: 001 912 447 6622
E: dturner@islandco.com
F: 912 201 0402
W: http://www.islandco.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:29:55 -0700
From: Rich Jordan <jordan@ccs4vms.com>
Subject: Re: DS10L Giveaway for August
Message-ID: <1186514995.608605.253140@x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 7, 12:57 pm, "David Turner, Island Computers" <dtur...@no-spam-
islandco.com> wrote:
> Doing it again
>
> For all those that might want one send us an email
> with "DS10L" giveaway in the subject line
>
> The system will be configured as follows:
>
> DS10L 466Mhz
> Dual Ethernet
> 512MB Memory
> 30GB IDE disk
> No CDROM or Floppy
> One "open" PCI slot 32/64 bit
>
> --
> David B Turner
> Island Computers US Corp
> 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180
> Savannah GA 31404
>
> T: 877-6364332 x201
> Intl: 001 912 447 6622
>
> E: dtur...@islandco.com
> F: 912 201 0402
> W:http://www.islandco.com
Very kind of you! Good luck, everyone!
------------------------------
Date: 7 Aug 2007 13:10:59 -0500
From: briggs@encompasserve.org
Subject: Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Message-ID: <lbgi$+HChGhZ@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In article <OF1D5A699B.8E8DC919-ON85257330.005A99BC-85257330.005BDD83@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes:
[snip]
> Ok, so as currently (V7* and above) implemented:
> PURGE/KEEP=1/BEFORE=time
> or
> PURGE/KEEP=n/BEFORE=time
> will consider only versions created before the time specified, then
> purge leaving only the one (or n) version(s) created before the time
> specified
> and all versions created (on or) after the time specified.
Not quite. The gotcha is that the highest numbered version counts
against the /KEEP count regardless of whether it matches the /BEFORE.
Here's my take based on AEF's explanation.
Interaction of /KEEP with /BEFORE, /SINCE, /BY_OWNER, /EXCLUDE, etc:
PURGE will always retain the highest existing file version regardless
of any file selection criteria or /KEEP[=n] qualifier.
PURGE will always retain all file versions that fail to match the
file selection criteria. The only versions that are candidates for
deletion are those that match all specified criteria.
If /KEEP=1 or /KEEP is specified or defaulted along with one or more
file selection criteria then the retention of the highest existing version
satisfies the /KEEP qualifier. All lower versions that match the
selection criteria will be purged.
If /KEEP=n is specified with n>1 along with one or more selection
criteria then in addition to the highest existing file version,
the next n-1 versions that match the selection criteria and
would thus have otherwise been purged will instead be retained.
All lower versions that match the selection criteria will be purged.
Examples:
$ PURGE FOO.BAR /KEEP=2 /BY_OWNER=[1,4]
FOO.BAR;5 (matches criteria) Retained (highest version always retained)
FOO.BAR;4 (does not match) Retained (does not match criteria)
FOO.BAR;3 (matches criteria) Retained (keep count = 2)
FOO.BAR;2 (does not match) Retained (does not match criteria)
FOO.BAR;1 (matches criteria) Purged (keep count less than 3)
$ PURGE FOO.BAR /KEEP=2 /BY_OWNER=[1,4]
FOO.BAR;5 (does not match) Retained (highest version always retained)
FOO.BAR;4 (does not match) Retained (does not match criteria)
FOO.BAR;3 (matches criteria) Retained (keep count = 2)
FOO.BAR;2 (does not match) Retained (does not match criteria)
FOO.BAR;1 (matches criteria) Purged (keep count less than 3)
$ PURGE FOO.BAR /KEEP=1 /BY_OWNER=[1,4]
FOO.BAR;5 (does not match Retained (highest version always retained)
FOO.BAR;4 (does not match) Retained (does not match criteria)
FOO.BAR;3 (matches criteria) Purged (keep count less than 2)
FOO.BAR;2 (does not match) Retained (does not match criteria)
FOO.BAR;1 (matches criteria) Purged (keep count less than 3)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:24:01 -0700
From: Doug Phillips <dphill46@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Message-ID: <1186511041.866953.321300@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 7, 8:51 am, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 7, 9:34 am, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 7, 8:38 am, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote:
> > > Doug Phillips <dphil...@netscape.net> wrote on 08/06/2007 08:21:36 PM:
> > > > On Aug 6, 3:48 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Aug 6, 1:27 pm, Doug Phillips <dphil...@netscape.net> wrote:
> > > > > > On Aug 5, 7:17 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Aug 5, 4:26 pm, Doug Phillips <dphil...@netscape.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 2:10 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 2:20 pm, Doug Phillips <dphil...@netscape.net> wrote:
> > > [8< SNIP >8]
>
> > > > P.S. to Norm: I thought you said "Easy DCL question...":-)
>
> > > Yes, I did, but my instincts were correct that I was missing something.
> > > I just didn't realize how confusing the something is. I am still not
> > > clear as to what is current behavior - I'll have to do a careful reread of
> > > the latter posts.
>
> > The command
>
> > $ PURGE/BEFORE=time/KEEP=1
>
> > is the same
>
> > $ DELETE/BEFORE=time/EXCLUDE=;
>
> > if it were a valid command and changing 1 to n would keep n-1 more of
> > the highest versions that would be deleted if it were still 1.
>
> Uh, make that
>
> if it were a valid command and changing 1 to n would additionally keep
> the n-1 highest versions of those that would be deleted if it were
> still 1.
>
> [...]
>
>
>
> > Here's from the doc:
>
> > *** The PURGE command deletes earlier versions of files. ***
>
> > [OK, this means that PURGE deletes *EARLIER* (non-current) versions of
> > files.]
>
The HELP I have and the current (83final) and older docs (that I've
looked at) says:
"Deletes all but the highest numbered versions of the specified
files."
note: *specified files*
That goes back to our confusing discussion about "what is a specified
file." You read it as only the "filename.ext" (plus node::dev:[dir] of
course), but I read it as "all files selected by the parameters and
qualifiers in this command."
Changing it to read "Preserves the highest version of the files
specified by the filespec parameter and command qualifiers.
Might be clearer.
> > *** BEFORE[=time]
> > Selects only those files dated prior to the specified time. You can
> > specify time as absolute time, as a combination of absolute and delta
> > times, or as one of the following keywords: BOOT, LOGIN, TODAY
> > (default), TOMORROW, or YESTERDAY. Specify one of the following
> > qualifiers with the /BEFORE qualifier to indicate the time attribute
> > to be used as the basis for selection: /BACKUP, /CREATED (default), /
> > EXPIRED, or /MODIFIED. ***
>
There again, "selects only those files dated prior to the specified
time" would lead one to expect that files *not* "dated prior to the
specified time" would *not* be selected.
Changing it to: "selectes only the filespec's lower versions that are
dated prior to the specified time"
would be closer to the way it works now.
> > [OK, this tells you *which* of the earlier files to delete. It's
> > simple: PURGE deletes earlier [non-current] versions of files and /
> > BEFORE narrows down which of those earlier [non-current] versions to
> > delete!]
>
> > /KEEP=number-of-versions
> > Specifies the maximum number of versions of the specified files to be
> > retained in the directory. If you do not include the /KEEP qualifier,
> > all but the highest numbered version of the specified files are
> > deleted from the directory.
>
> > [OK, this needs some serious improvement. I find it ambiguous even
> > when other qualifiers are not specified at all. I'd say /KEEP=1 means
> > keep the current version of each file and /KEEP=n keeps n-1 of the
> > highest versions of the files subject to deletion.]
>
> Uh, make that
>
> [OK, this needs some serious improvement. I find it ambiguous even
> when other qualifiers are not specified at all. I'd say /KEEP=1 means
> keep the current version of each file and /KEEP=n means keep the
> current version and the n-1 highest versions of the files subject to
> deletion.]
>
> > deleted from the directory.
The docs & help are absolutely ambiguous for the way the purge works
now. But, I think n-1 would be too confusing. I can't think of a
concise way to explain how it works without using an example, but
maybe something like:
"Specifies the maximum number of versions of the selected files
including the highest numbered filespec version that should be
retained in the directory.
If you do not specify the /KEEP qualifier the default of /KEEP=1
will be used, only the highest numbered version of the filespec file
will be retained and all qualified lower versions will be deleted."
Nope. I don't like it. That could be improved but I think it's closer
than what the doc says now. (I don't have a problem with maximum,
except as to how it is inclusive of the highest version and qualified
version.)
I've tried to remain in the context of "help" rather than the docs,
and the doc's should certainly explain it in more depth and with
sufficient examples so that all ambiguity is removed.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:20:13 -0400
From: norm.raphael@metso.com
Subject: Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Message-ID: <OF8CC93732.C94F19D1-ON85257330.006976DC-85257330.006A391C@metso.com>
briggs@encompasserve.org wrote on 08/07/2007 02:10:59 PM:
> In article <OF1D5A699B.8E8DC919-ON85257330.005A99BC-85257330.
> 005BDD83@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes:
> [snip]
> > Ok, so as currently (V7* and above) implemented:
> > PURGE/KEEP=1/BEFORE=time
> > or
> > PURGE/KEEP=n/BEFORE=time
> > will consider only versions created before the time specified, then
> > purge leaving only the one (or n) version(s) created before the time
> > specified
> > and all versions created (on or) after the time specified.
>
> Not quite. The gotcha is that the highest numbered version counts
> against the /KEEP count regardless of whether it matches the /BEFORE.
>
> Here's my take based on AEF's explanation.
>
> Interaction of /KEEP with /BEFORE, /SINCE, /BY_OWNER, /EXCLUDE, etc:
>
> PURGE will always retain the highest existing file version regardless
> of any file selection criteria or /KEEP[=n] qualifier.
>
> PURGE will always retain all file versions that fail to match the
> file selection criteria. The only versions that are candidates for
> deletion are those that match all specified criteria.
>
> If /KEEP=1 or /KEEP is specified or defaulted along with one or more
> file selection criteria then the retention of the highest existing
version
> satisfies the /KEEP qualifier. All lower versions that match the
> selection criteria will be purged.
>
> If /KEEP=n is specified with n>1 along with one or more selection
> criteria then in addition to the highest existing file version,
> the next n-1 versions that match the selection criteria and
> would thus have otherwise been purged will instead be retained.
> All lower versions that match the selection criteria will be purged.
>
> Examples:
>
> $ PURGE FOO.BAR /KEEP=2 /BY_OWNER=[1,4]
>
> FOO.BAR;5 (matches criteria) Retained (highest version always
retained)
> FOO.BAR;4 (does not match) Retained (does not match criteria)
> FOO.BAR;3 (matches criteria) Retained (keep count = 2)
> FOO.BAR;2 (does not match) Retained (does not match criteria)
> FOO.BAR;1 (matches criteria) Purged (keep count less than 3)
>
>
> $ PURGE FOO.BAR /KEEP=2 /BY_OWNER=[1,4]
>
> FOO.BAR;5 (does not match) Retained (highest version always
retained)
> FOO.BAR;4 (does not match) Retained (does not match criteria)
> FOO.BAR;3 (matches criteria) Retained (keep count = 2)
> FOO.BAR;2 (does not match) Retained (does not match criteria)
> FOO.BAR;1 (matches criteria) Purged (keep count less than 3)
>
>
> $ PURGE FOO.BAR /KEEP=1 /BY_OWNER=[1,4]
>
> FOO.BAR;5 (does not match Retained (highest version always
retained)
> FOO.BAR;4 (does not match) Retained (does not match criteria)
> FOO.BAR;3 (matches criteria) Purged (keep count less than 2)
> FOO.BAR;2 (does not match) Retained (does not match criteria)
> FOO.BAR;1 (matches criteria) Purged (keep count less than 3)
So if I have this and use
PURGE/BEFORE="2-AUG-2007" FOO.BAR
FOO.BAR;15 7-AUG-2007 14:30:02.26
FOO.BAR;14 7-AUG-2007 12:30:02.51
FOO.BAR;13 7-AUG-2007 10:30:01.54
FOO.BAR;12 7-AUG-2007 06:30:03.77
FOO.BAR;11 6-AUG-2007 12:30:01.07
FOO.BAR;10 6-AUG-2007 10:30:02.25
FOO.BAR;9 6-AUG-2007 06:30:04.56
FOO.BAR;8 3-AUG-2007 12:30:01.06
FOO.BAR;7 3-AUG-2007 10:30:02.01
FOO.BAR;6 3-AUG-2007 06:30:03.75
FOO.BAR;5 2-AUG-2007 12:30:01.21
FOO.BAR;4 2-AUG-2007 10:30:02.12
FOO.BAR;3 2-AUG-2007 06:30:02.62
FOO.BAR;2 1-AUG-2007 12:30:01.11
FOO.BAR;1 1-AUG-2007 10:30:01.56
will versions 2 and 1 be deleted, or
just version 1?
------------------------------
Date: 7 Aug 2007 14:49:26 -0500
From: briggs@encompasserve.org
Subject: Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Message-ID: <fDRiHmNK0QGu@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In article <OF8CC93732.C94F19D1-ON85257330.006976DC-85257330.006A391C@metso.com>, norm.raphael@metso.com writes:
> briggs@encompasserve.org wrote on 08/07/2007 02:10:59 PM:
[snip]
>> Interaction of /KEEP with /BEFORE, /SINCE, /BY_OWNER, /EXCLUDE, etc:
>>
>> PURGE will always retain the highest existing file version regardless
>> of any file selection criteria or /KEEP[=n] qualifier.
>>
>> PURGE will always retain all file versions that fail to match the
>> file selection criteria. The only versions that are candidates for
>> deletion are those that match all specified criteria.
>>
>> If /KEEP=1 or /KEEP is specified or defaulted along with one or more
>> file selection criteria then the retention of the highest existing
> version
>> satisfies the /KEEP qualifier. All lower versions that match the
>> selection criteria will be purged.
>>
>> If /KEEP=n is specified with n>1 along with one or more selection
>> criteria then in addition to the highest existing file version,
>> the next n-1 versions that match the selection criteria and
>> would thus have otherwise been purged will instead be retained.
>> All lower versions that match the selection criteria will be purged.
>>
[snip]
> So if I have this and use
>
> PURGE/BEFORE="2-AUG-2007" FOO.BAR
>
> FOO.BAR;15 7-AUG-2007 14:30:02.26
> FOO.BAR;14 7-AUG-2007 12:30:02.51
> FOO.BAR;13 7-AUG-2007 10:30:01.54
> FOO.BAR;12 7-AUG-2007 06:30:03.77
> FOO.BAR;11 6-AUG-2007 12:30:01.07
> FOO.BAR;10 6-AUG-2007 10:30:02.25
> FOO.BAR;9 6-AUG-2007 06:30:04.56
> FOO.BAR;8 3-AUG-2007 12:30:01.06
> FOO.BAR;7 3-AUG-2007 10:30:02.01
> FOO.BAR;6 3-AUG-2007 06:30:03.75
> FOO.BAR;5 2-AUG-2007 12:30:01.21
> FOO.BAR;4 2-AUG-2007 10:30:02.12
> FOO.BAR;3 2-AUG-2007 06:30:02.62
> FOO.BAR;2 1-AUG-2007 12:30:01.11
> FOO.BAR;1 1-AUG-2007 10:30:01.56
>
> will versions 2 and 1 be deleted, or
> just version 1?
Playing fair and making the prediction before testing it...
Both versions 2 and 1 will be deleted.
/KEEP is not specified. That means /KEEP=1
Version 15 is the highest existing version. It is retained.
That satisfies the /KEEP count.
All lower versions matching the /BEFORE will be deleted.
That means versions 2 and 1.
And the test...
Directory EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.BRIGGS]
FOO.BAR;19 7-AUG-2007 14:44:53.51
FOO.BAR;18 7-AUG-2007 14:44:52.69
FOO.BAR;17 7-AUG-2007 14:44:51.57
FOO.BAR;16 7-AUG-2007 14:44:50.87
FOO.BAR;15 7-AUG-2007 14:44:48.31
FOO.BAR;14 7-AUG-2007 14:44:47.52
FOO.BAR;13 7-AUG-2007 14:44:46.96
FOO.BAR;12 7-AUG-2007 14:44:46.37
FOO.BAR;11 7-AUG-2007 14:44:45.72
FOO.BAR;10 7-AUG-2007 14:44:44.24 ! Not matching
FOO.BAR;9 7-AUG-2007 14:44:43.24 ! Matching
FOO.BAR;8 7-AUG-2007 13:01:12.37 ! Matching
Total of 12 files.
$ purge foo.bar /before=14:44:44 /log
%PURGE-I-FILPURG, EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.BRIGGS]FOO.BAR;9 deleted (0
blocks
)
%PURGE-I-FILPURG, EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.BRIGGS]FOO.BAR;8 deleted (0
blocks
)
%PURGE-I-TOTAL, 2 files deleted (0 blocks)
$
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:15:30 -0700
From: Doug Phillips <dphill46@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Message-ID: <1186517730.172357.229030@e16g2000pri.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 7, 2:49 pm, bri...@encompasserve.org wrote:
> In article <OF8CC93732.C94F19D1-ON85257330.006976DC-85257330.006A3...@metso.com>, norm.raph...@metso.com writes:
>
>
>
> > bri...@encompasserve.org wrote on 08/07/2007 02:10:59 PM:
> [snip]
> >> Interaction of /KEEP with /BEFORE, /SINCE, /BY_OWNER, /EXCLUDE, etc:
>
> >> PURGE will always retain the highest existing file version regardless
> >> of any file selection criteria or /KEEP[=n] qualifier.
>
> >> PURGE will always retain all file versions that fail to match the
> >> file selection criteria. The only versions that are candidates for
> >> deletion are those that match all specified criteria.
>
> >> If /KEEP=1 or /KEEP is specified or defaulted along with one or more
> >> file selection criteria then the retention of the highest existing
> > version
> >> satisfies the /KEEP qualifier. All lower versions that match the
> >> selection criteria will be purged.
>
> >> If /KEEP=n is specified with n>1 along with one or more selection
> >> criteria then in addition to the highest existing file version,
> >> the next n-1 versions that match the selection criteria and
> >> would thus have otherwise been purged will instead be retained.
> >> All lower versions that match the selection criteria will be purged.
>
> [snip]
> > So if I have this and use
>
> > PURGE/BEFORE="2-AUG-2007" FOO.BAR
>
> > FOO.BAR;15 7-AUG-2007 14:30:02.26
> > FOO.BAR;14 7-AUG-2007 12:30:02.51
> > FOO.BAR;13 7-AUG-2007 10:30:01.54
> > FOO.BAR;12 7-AUG-2007 06:30:03.77
> > FOO.BAR;11 6-AUG-2007 12:30:01.07
> > FOO.BAR;10 6-AUG-2007 10:30:02.25
> > FOO.BAR;9 6-AUG-2007 06:30:04.56
> > FOO.BAR;8 3-AUG-2007 12:30:01.06
> > FOO.BAR;7 3-AUG-2007 10:30:02.01
> > FOO.BAR;6 3-AUG-2007 06:30:03.75
> > FOO.BAR;5 2-AUG-2007 12:30:01.21
> > FOO.BAR;4 2-AUG-2007 10:30:02.12
> > FOO.BAR;3 2-AUG-2007 06:30:02.62
> > FOO.BAR;2 1-AUG-2007 12:30:01.11
> > FOO.BAR;1 1-AUG-2007 10:30:01.56
>
> > will versions 2 and 1 be deleted, or
> > just version 1?
>
> Playing fair and making the prediction before testing it...
>
> Both versions 2 and 1 will be deleted.
>
> /KEEP is not specified. That means /KEEP=1
> Version 15 is the highest existing version. It is retained.
> That satisfies the /KEEP count.
> All lower versions matching the /BEFORE will be deleted.
> That means versions 2 and 1.
>
> And the test...
>
> Directory EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.BRIGGS]
>
> FOO.BAR;19 7-AUG-2007 14:44:53.51
> FOO.BAR;18 7-AUG-2007 14:44:52.69
> FOO.BAR;17 7-AUG-2007 14:44:51.57
> FOO.BAR;16 7-AUG-2007 14:44:50.87
> FOO.BAR;15 7-AUG-2007 14:44:48.31
> FOO.BAR;14 7-AUG-2007 14:44:47.52
> FOO.BAR;13 7-AUG-2007 14:44:46.96
> FOO.BAR;12 7-AUG-2007 14:44:46.37
> FOO.BAR;11 7-AUG-2007 14:44:45.72
> FOO.BAR;10 7-AUG-2007 14:44:44.24 ! Not matching
> FOO.BAR;9 7-AUG-2007 14:44:43.24 ! Matching
> FOO.BAR;8 7-AUG-2007 13:01:12.37 ! Matching
>
> Total of 12 files.
> $ purge foo.bar /before=14:44:44 /log
> %PURGE-I-FILPURG, EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.BRIGGS]FOO.BAR;9 deleted (0
> blocks
> )
> %PURGE-I-FILPURG, EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.BRIGGS]FOO.BAR;8 deleted (0
> blocks
> )
> %PURGE-I-TOTAL, 2 files deleted (0 blocks)
> $
>
>
Yes, and the logic is:
FOO.BAR;19 7-AUG-2007 14:44:53.51 !new file; keep highest version;
count=1
FOO.BAR;18 7-AUG-2007 14:44:52.69 !no match; skip
FOO.BAR;17 7-AUG-2007 14:44:51.57 !no match; skip
FOO.BAR;16 7-AUG-2007 14:44:50.87 !no match; skip
FOO.BAR;15 7-AUG-2007 14:44:48.31 !no match; skip
FOO.BAR;14 7-AUG-2007 14:44:47.52 !no match; skip
FOO.BAR;13 7-AUG-2007 14:44:46.96 !no match; skip
FOO.BAR;12 7-AUG-2007 14:44:46.37 !no match; skip
FOO.BAR;11 7-AUG-2007 14:44:45.72 !no match; skip
FOO.BAR;10 7-AUG-2007 14:44:44.24 !no match; skip
FOO.BAR;9 7-AUG-2007 14:44:43.24 !Match; incr count;
count.gt.keep; delete
FOO.BAR;8 7-AUG-2007 13:01:12.37 !Match; incr count;
count.gt.keep; delete
If you added: /KEEP=2 only FOO.BAR;8 would be deleted. /KEEP=3 and
nothing would be deleted.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 16:53:11 -0400
From: norm.raphael@metso.com
Subject: Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Message-ID: <OF6DFE09DA.CB24F660-ON85257330.00728D66-85257330.0072BC0C@metso.com>
Doug Phillips <dphill46@netscape.net> wrote on 08/07/2007 04:15:30 PM:
> On Aug 7, 2:49 pm, bri...@encompasserve.org wrote:
> > In article <OF8CC93732.C94F19D1-ON85257330.006976DC-85257330.
> 006A3...@metso.com>, norm.raph...@metso.com writes:
> >
> >
> >
> > > bri...@encompasserve.org wrote on 08/07/2007 02:10:59 PM:
> > [snip]
> > >> Interaction of /KEEP with /BEFORE, /SINCE, /BY_OWNER, /EXCLUDE, etc:
> >
> > >> PURGE will always retain the highest existing file version
regardless
> > >> of any file selection criteria or /KEEP[=n] qualifier.
> >
> > >> PURGE will always retain all file versions that fail to match the
> > >> file selection criteria. The only versions that are candidates for
> > >> deletion are those that match all specified criteria.
> >
> > >> If /KEEP=1 or /KEEP is specified or defaulted along with one or more
> > >> file selection criteria then the retention of the highest existing
> > > version
> > >> satisfies the /KEEP qualifier. All lower versions that match the
> > >> selection criteria will be purged.
> >
> > >> If /KEEP=n is specified with n>1 along with one or more selection
> > >> criteria then in addition to the highest existing file version,
> > >> the next n-1 versions that match the selection criteria and
> > >> would thus have otherwise been purged will instead be retained.
> > >> All lower versions that match the selection criteria will be purged.
> >
> > [snip]
> > > So if I have this and use
> >
> > > PURGE/BEFORE="2-AUG-2007" FOO.BAR
> >
> > > FOO.BAR;15 7-AUG-2007 14:30:02.26
> > > FOO.BAR;14 7-AUG-2007 12:30:02.51
> > > FOO.BAR;13 7-AUG-2007 10:30:01.54
> > > FOO.BAR;12 7-AUG-2007 06:30:03.77
> > > FOO.BAR;11 6-AUG-2007 12:30:01.07
> > > FOO.BAR;10 6-AUG-2007 10:30:02.25
> > > FOO.BAR;9 6-AUG-2007 06:30:04.56
> > > FOO.BAR;8 3-AUG-2007 12:30:01.06
> > > FOO.BAR;7 3-AUG-2007 10:30:02.01
> > > FOO.BAR;6 3-AUG-2007 06:30:03.75
> > > FOO.BAR;5 2-AUG-2007 12:30:01.21
> > > FOO.BAR;4 2-AUG-2007 10:30:02.12
> > > FOO.BAR;3 2-AUG-2007 06:30:02.62
> > > FOO.BAR;2 1-AUG-2007 12:30:01.11
> > > FOO.BAR;1 1-AUG-2007 10:30:01.56
> >
> > > will versions 2 and 1 be deleted, or
> > > just version 1?
> >
> > Playing fair and making the prediction before testing it...
> >
> > Both versions 2 and 1 will be deleted.
> >
> > /KEEP is not specified. That means /KEEP=1
> > Version 15 is the highest existing version. It is retained.
> > That satisfies the /KEEP count.
> > All lower versions matching the /BEFORE will be deleted.
> > That means versions 2 and 1.
> >
> > And the test...
> >
> > Directory EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.BRIGGS]
> >
> > FOO.BAR;19 7-AUG-2007 14:44:53.51
> > FOO.BAR;18 7-AUG-2007 14:44:52.69
> > FOO.BAR;17 7-AUG-2007 14:44:51.57
> > FOO.BAR;16 7-AUG-2007 14:44:50.87
> > FOO.BAR;15 7-AUG-2007 14:44:48.31
> > FOO.BAR;14 7-AUG-2007 14:44:47.52
> > FOO.BAR;13 7-AUG-2007 14:44:46.96
> > FOO.BAR;12 7-AUG-2007 14:44:46.37
> > FOO.BAR;11 7-AUG-2007 14:44:45.72
> > FOO.BAR;10 7-AUG-2007 14:44:44.24 ! Not matching
> > FOO.BAR;9 7-AUG-2007 14:44:43.24 ! Matching
> > FOO.BAR;8 7-AUG-2007 13:01:12.37 ! Matching
> >
> > Total of 12 files.
> > $ purge foo.bar /before=14:44:44 /log
> > %PURGE-I-FILPURG, EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.BRIGGS]FOO.BAR;9 deleted
(0
> > blocks
> > )
> > %PURGE-I-FILPURG, EISNER$DRA3:[DECUSERVE_USER.BRIGGS]FOO.BAR;8 deleted
(0
> > blocks
> > )
> > %PURGE-I-TOTAL, 2 files deleted (0 blocks)
> > $
> >
> >
>
> Yes, and the logic is:
>
> FOO.BAR;19 7-AUG-2007 14:44:53.51 !new file; keep highest version;
> count=1
> FOO.BAR;18 7-AUG-2007 14:44:52.69 !no match; skip
> FOO.BAR;17 7-AUG-2007 14:44:51.57 !no match; skip
> FOO.BAR;16 7-AUG-2007 14:44:50.87 !no match; skip
> FOO.BAR;15 7-AUG-2007 14:44:48.31 !no match; skip
> FOO.BAR;14 7-AUG-2007 14:44:47.52 !no match; skip
> FOO.BAR;13 7-AUG-2007 14:44:46.96 !no match; skip
> FOO.BAR;12 7-AUG-2007 14:44:46.37 !no match; skip
> FOO.BAR;11 7-AUG-2007 14:44:45.72 !no match; skip
> FOO.BAR;10 7-AUG-2007 14:44:44.24 !no match; skip
> FOO.BAR;9 7-AUG-2007 14:44:43.24 !Match; incr count;
> count.gt.keep; delete
> FOO.BAR;8 7-AUG-2007 13:01:12.37 !Match; incr count;
> count.gt.keep; delete
>
> If you added: /KEEP=2 only FOO.BAR;8 would be deleted. /KEEP=3 and
> nothing would be deleted.
>
>
Aha! ...but that's illogical. No wonder folks are conflicted.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:34:05 -0700
From: Doug Phillips <dphill46@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Message-ID: <1186522445.579874.177320@g12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 7, 7:49 am, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 6, 8:21 pm, Doug Phillips <dphil...@netscape.net> wrote:> On Aug 6, 3:48 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 6, 1:27 pm, Doug Phillips <dphil...@netscape.net> wrote:
> > > > On Aug 5, 7:17 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Aug 5, 4:26 pm, Doug Phillips <dphil...@netscape.net> wrote:
> > > > > > On Aug 5, 2:10 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Aug 5, 2:20 pm, Doug Phillips <dphil...@netscape.net> wrote:
> > > > > [...]
>
> [...]
>
> > Please excuse my density. I haven't expected purge to work the way it
> > does now, and I haven't expected be able to do what you're doing
> > without additional effort. I most often use purge/since to clean out
> > source that I've worked on today (you know, the ones with the typo's
> > and compile errors(8-O) and leave the originals. If I would have
> > expected anything, it would have been to find at least one version
> > (or /keep=n versions) of any file dated /before=date, which is exactly
> > what you *don't* want.
>
> Right. And when I do want it, I use PURGE/BEFORE=time/KEEP=2.
>
Right. But nothing in HELP or the docs even mentions that.
> > Or, I often use it without concern for the date to clear out journal,
> > print, and temp-work directories and such. Actually, for "important"
> > journals, I usually "BACKUP/BEFORE=date" them to someplace else, and
> > then DELETE/BEFORE=date the active directory. Those commands have
> > always worked as expected and I test them with any new update/upgrade.
>
> But they're not consistent with each other! The default for DELETE is /
> CREATED while the default for BACKUP is /MODIFIED!!! VMS seems to be
> at least slightly more concerned with appropriate defaults than the
> same defaults. You really want /MODIFIED to be the default for BACKUP,
> but you wouldn't want it to be the default for all the other commands
> that use /SINCE and /BEFORE.
>
I have in my login:
BCOPY :== BACKUP/CREATED
and that's actually what I use, but that's not the point, is it.
BACKUP and DELETE work the way they say they do, so reading the HELP &
docs for those is actually helpful.
> > COPY/BEFORE=date/SINCE=older-date was broken at one time, and wouldn't
> > copy *any* files. I don't know when it was fixed because I've gotten
> > in the habit of using BACKUP. Another long-ago bug in EDIT/FDL/NOINTER/
> > ANAL=file that set the primary key to CHANGES=Y shocked me into total
> > paranoia, so I've developed "my" way to do things and I spend the
> > testing time on those. If something else breaks, hopefully I'll find
> > it when I test it before I try to use, or some other unlucky person
> > will find it first.
>
> > Anyway, I don't want a file that hasn't been touched in a long time
> > cluttering things up, and if I need to delve into the past I look at
> > the archive. Of course, I do PURGEs for various reasons but until the
> > ITRC discussion, I never noticed a this "idiosyncrasy."
>
> What does this have to do with PURGE? A "file that hasn't been touched
> in a long time" could be the current version and PURGE would always
> keep that.
>
Sorry I wasn't clear; I was explaining why I might use DELETE to clear
out certain types of directories. This thread started out PURGE vs.
DELETE, no? If you were to take my statement "haven't been touched in
a long while" with a grain of salt, you might guess that I probably
use DELETE/MODIFIED for those "touched" files. Anyway, whatever I want
to do with DELETE or BACKUP, I can read HELP or the docs and they will
tell me how to do it.
> > So, that's my excuse. It's the best one I can come up with without
> > spending lots of time contriving a better one or bringing up the
> > misfortunes of my childhood;-)
>
> OK.
Thanks. I'll stop trying to come up with a better one.(WHEW! I thought
you might call me on it!)
I don't think we have a disagreement on PURGE any longer.
I don't care whether it works the way it does or the way it's
documented; just one or the other and they should agree. Since I don't
care and you do, I'll side with you. The docs and HELP should be
corrected.
If the docs & HELP are changed, then the release notes should state
the VMS version where the behavior changed.
Maybe it is stated someplace but I'm not going to go searching. (see
above: "I don't care" :-)
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
That was my last smiley and I saved it for last. Until I receive
the next shipment, please insert smilies in this post, or any other
post of mine, after any statement that makes you wonder if you were
just insulted. You were not.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:14:01 -0700
From: AEF <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Message-ID: <1186528441.043764.293040@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 7, 5:34 pm, Doug Phillips <dphil...@netscape.net> wrote:
> On Aug 7, 7:49 am, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 6, 8:21 pm, Doug Phillips <dphil...@netscape.net> wrote:> On Aug 6, 3:48 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 6, 1:27 pm, Doug Phillips <dphil...@netscape.net> wrote:
> > > > > On Aug 5, 7:17 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Aug 5, 4:26 pm, Doug Phillips <dphil...@netscape.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Aug 5, 2:10 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 2:20 pm, Doug Phillips <dphil...@netscape.net> wrote:
> > > > > > [...]
>
> > [...]
>
> > > Please excuse my density. I haven't expected purge to work the way it
> > > does now, and I haven't expected be able to do what you're doing
> > > without additional effort. I most often use purge/since to clean out
> > > source that I've worked on today (you know, the ones with the typo's
> > > and compile errors(8-O) and leave the originals. If I would have
> > > expected anything, it would have been to find at least one version
> > > (or /keep=n versions) of any file dated /before=date, which is exactly
> > > what you *don't* want.
>
> > Right. And when I do want it, I use PURGE/BEFORE=time/KEEP=2.
>
> Right. But nothing in HELP or the docs even mentions that.
Agreed!
> > > Or, I often use it without concern for the date to clear out journal,
> > > print, and temp-work directories and such. Actually, for "important"
> > > journals, I usually "BACKUP/BEFORE=date" them to someplace else, and
> > > then DELETE/BEFORE=date the active directory. Those commands have
> > > always worked as expected and I test them with any new update/upgrade.
>
> > But they're not consistent with each other! The default for DELETE is /
> > CREATED while the default for BACKUP is /MODIFIED!!! VMS seems to be
> > at least slightly more concerned with appropriate defaults than the
> > same defaults. You really want /MODIFIED to be the default for BACKUP,
> > but you wouldn't want it to be the default for all the other commands
> > that use /SINCE and /BEFORE.
>
> I have in my login:
>
> BCOPY :== BACKUP/CREATED
>
> and that's actually what I use, but that's not the point, is it.
>
> BACKUP and DELETE work the way they say they do, so reading the HELP &
> docs for those is actually helpful.
The reason I mentioned the inconsistency is that you said that /SINCE
and /BEFORE should work consistently across commands and/or that they
do for other commands. I'm just pointing out that even without PURGE,
they don't. Also, as I pointed out before, blank file-spec fields and
sticky defaults also don't work the same across commands. In part
that's to tailor the action to be sensible for the command and in part
it's just the whim of the programmer.
> > > COPY/BEFORE=date/SINCE=older-date was broken at one time, and wouldn't
> > > copy *any* files. I don't know when it was fixed because I've gotten
> > > in the habit of using BACKUP. Another long-ago bug in EDIT/FDL/NOINTER/
> > > ANAL=file that set the primary key to CHANGES=Y shocked me into total
> > > paranoia, so I've developed "my" way to do things and I spend the
> > > testing time on those. If something else breaks, hopefully I'll find
> > > it when I test it before I try to use, or some other unlucky person
> > > will find it first.
>
> > > Anyway, I don't want a file that hasn't been touched in a long time
> > > cluttering things up, and if I need to delve into the past I look at
> > > the archive. Of course, I do PURGEs for various reasons but until the
> > > ITRC discussion, I never noticed a this "idiosyncrasy."
>
> > What does this have to do with PURGE? A "file that hasn't been touched
> > in a long time" could be the current version and PURGE would always
> > keep that.
>
> Sorry I wasn't clear; I was explaining why I might use DELETE to clear
> out certain types of directories. This thread started out PURGE vs.
> DELETE, no? If you were to take my statement "haven't been touched in
> a long while" with a grain of salt, you might guess that I probably
> use DELETE/MODIFIED for those "touched" files. Anyway, whatever I want
> to do with DELETE or BACKUP, I can read HELP or the docs and they will
> tell me how to do it.
Yes, but it quickly moved to what /KEEP should do when selection
qualifiers are added and stayed there for a long time.
Touch? The only time I've ever heard "touch" with regard to files is
Unix, so I wasn't sure what you meant. It could have been accessed or
modified.
> > > So, that's my excuse. It's the best one I can come up with without
> > > spending lots of time contriving a better one or bringing up the
> > > misfortunes of my childhood;-)
>
> > OK.
>
> Thanks. I'll stop trying to come up with a better one.(WHEW! I thought
> you might call me on it!)
OK.
> I don't think we have a disagreement on PURGE any longer.
Great!
> I don't care whether it works the way it does or the way it's
> documented; just one or the other and they should agree. Since I don't
> care and you do, I'll side with you. The docs and HELP should be
> corrected.
Thanks!
> If the docs & HELP are changed, then the release notes should state
> the VMS version where the behavior changed.
>
> Maybe it is stated someplace but I'm not going to go searching. (see
> above: "I don't care" :-)
>
> -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
> That was my last smiley and I saved it for last. Until I receive
> the next shipment, please insert smilies in this post, or any other
> post of mine, after any statement that makes you wonder if you were
> just insulted. You were not.
AEF
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 23:45:09 -0000
From: Ruger <rexruger@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: File Version limit Reset
Message-ID: <1186530309.482170.213450@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
Thanks very much to everyone who has responded and also those who
posted procedures - you have all been very helpful !!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:24:05 -0500
From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>
Subject: Re: File Version limit Reset
Message-ID: <46B92945.4F44F1BB@spam.comcast.net>
rexruger@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I was hoping someone may have already written a DCL procedure for this
> problem. I have searched but could not find anything.
>
> I would like to reset the version number on a file once it reaches or
> approaches 32767.
>
> e.g.
>
> If I had 3 files
>
> file.dat;32767
> file.dat;32766
> file.dat;32765
>
> I would like to run the procedure and set the version number on the
> files as follows :
>
> file.dat;3
> file.dat;2
> file.dat;1
>
> Hoping someone may be able to help
Well, the easiest would be two steps:
$ rename file.dat;* *.tad
$ rename file.tad;* *.dat
Obviously, that makes many brash assumptions.
--
David J Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://www.djesys.com/
Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/
Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/
Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/
Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:27:59 -0500
From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>
Subject: Re: How can I create symbol thru Perl "system" command?
Message-ID: <craigberry-E88AD0.21275907082007@free.teranews.com>
In article <op.twn7mdn6hv4qyg@murphus.linden>,
"Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company> wrote:
> Perhaps dumb question, only used Perl once maybe 12 years ago, but can you
> make library calls? If so, is there a starlet lib for Perl, in which case
> there are a number of options
Perl is not a native, compiled language and thus obviously does not
provide direct access to starlet or other libraries via the OpenVMS
Calling Standard. There are numerous extensions that provide access as
a rather large library of libraries known as the CPAN (Comprehensive
Perl Archive Network, <http://search.cpan.org>). A few of those provide
interfaces to OpenVMS system services and run-time libraries and other
cross-language libraries in a fashion not unlike what Java's JNI would
do.
While it would be possible in theory to create an extension that would
provide all of the system services via the thinnest possible wrapper,
it would be only slightly less painful to construct item lists, parse
IOSBs, etc., in Perl than it would be to do so in DCL. Thus the Perl
extensions that provide this type of support are more likely to do so
in a manner analogous to DCL lexicals (and in some cases go even
further in translating bit streams into strings), generally tending to
avoid the appearance of providing direct access to the underlying
services.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:53:00 -0500
From: "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler>
Subject: Re: How can I create symbol thru Perl "system" command?
Message-ID: <craigberry-5F482B.21530007082007@free.teranews.com>
In article <1186498136.631175.286780@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
Hein RMS van den Heuvel <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 6, 11:14 pm, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8...@qsl.network> wrote:
> > Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote:
> > > For the real problem though... why not just use 'MCR'?
> > Why use MCR?
>
> Because interstingly on the box (td183.testdrive) I tried before
> posting I needed MCR to activate authorize which was the example I
> happened to pick on.
>
> $ define sysuaf sys$login:sysuaf.tmp;1
> $ perl -e "$user=q(DEFAULT); system(qq(sys\$system:authorize show
> $user/br))"
> %SYSTEM-F-NOAUDIT, operation requires AUDIT privilege
> %SYSTEM-F-NOAUDIT, operation requires AUDIT privilege
> $ perl -e "$user=q(DEFAULT); system(qq(mcr sys\$system:authorize show
> $user/br))"
> Owner Username UIC Account Privs Pri
> Directory
>
> DEFAULT [200,200] Normal 4
> Disuser
> $ perl -v
> This is perl, v5.8.6 built for VMS_IA64
>
> For other examples the MCR is not needed. Thank you!
I noticed the NOAUDIT error in the example of spawning AUTHORIZE as
well and found it curious. I verified by stepping through Perl in the
debugger that when running:
$ perl -e "system('sys$system:authorize show default/br');"
the command gets translated to:
MCR SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]AUTHORIZE.EXE;1 show default/br
before being sent to LIB$SPAWN. But wait, what happens when we simply
run the same command from DCL:
$ spawn MCR SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]AUTHORIZE.EXE;1 show default/br
%DCL-S-SPAWNED, process CRAIG_35519 spawned
%DCL-S-ATTACHED, terminal now attached to process CRAIG_35519
%SYSTEM-F-NOAUDIT, operation requires AUDIT privilege
%DCL-S-RETURNED, control returned to process CRAIG
There must be some funny business in AUTHORIZE that this trips over,
but clearly it's a special case whether you're in or out of Perl.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:14:26 -0700
From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company>
Subject: Re: How can I create symbol thru Perl "system" command?
Message-ID: <op.twp0mcjehv4qyg@murphus.linden>
On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 19:27:59 -0700, Craig A. Berry
<craigberry@mac.com.spamfooler> wrote:
> In article <op.twn7mdn6hv4qyg@murphus.linden>,
> "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps dumb question, only used Perl once maybe 12 years ago, but can
>> you
>> make library calls? If so, is there a starlet lib for Perl, in which
>> case
>> there are a number of options
>
> Perl is not a native, compiled language and thus obviously does not
> provide direct access to starlet or other libraries via the OpenVMS
> Calling Standard. There are numerous extensions that provide access as
> a rather large library of libraries known as the CPAN (Comprehensive
> Perl Archive Network, <http://search.cpan.org>). A few of those provide
> interfaces to OpenVMS system services and run-time libraries and other
> cross-language libraries in a fashion not unlike what Java's JNI would
> do.
>
> While it would be possible in theory to create an extension that would
> provide all of the system services via the thinnest possible wrapper,
> it would be only slightly less painful to construct item lists, parse
> IOSBs, etc., in Perl than it would be to do so in DCL. Thus the Perl
> extensions that provide this type of support are more likely to do so
> in a manner analogous to DCL lexicals (and in some cases go even
> further in translating bit streams into strings), generally tending to
> avoid the appearance of providing direct access to the underlying
> services.
>
This is progress?
--
PL/I for OpenVMS
www.kednos.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 03:31:49 GMT
From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>
Subject: Re: How can I create symbol thru Perl "system" command?
Message-ID: <EOaui.54312$Fc.7446@attbi_s21>
Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote:
> On Aug 6, 11:14 pm, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8...@qsl.network> wrote:
>
>>Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote:
>>
>>>For the real problem though... why not just use 'MCR'?
>>
>>Why use MCR?
>
>
> For other examples the MCR is not needed. Thank you!
I finally remembered why I recommend avoiding MCR. If you use MCR, you
have to give the file specification in VMS format.
If not, you can give the specification in either UNIX or VMS format, and
depending on how the C features are set, some file specifications that
are currently in VMS may end up showing up in UNIX format, especially in
future versions of Perl.
-John
wb8tyw@qsl.network
Personal Opinion Only
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 04:24:56 -0000
From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: How can I create symbol thru Perl "system" command?
Message-ID: <1186547096.953272.153400@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 7, 10:53 pm, "Craig A. Berry" <craigbe...@mac.com.spamfooler>
wrote:
> In article <1186498136.631175.286...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> Hein RMS van den Heuvel <heinvandenheu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> $ spawn MCR SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]AUTHORIZE.EXE;1 show default/br
> %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process CRAIG_35519 spawned
> %DCL-S-ATTACHED, terminal now attached to process CRAIG_35519
> %SYSTEM-F-NOAUDIT, operation requires AUDIT privilege
> %DCL-S-RETURNED, control returned to process CRAIG
>
> There must be some funny business in AUTHORIZE that this trips over,
> but clearly it's a special case whether you're in or out of Perl.
Ah! AUTHORIZE is installed with AUDIT priv.
The explicit version number in the spawn will instruct the system to
bypass the installed image, thus the process will need its own privs.
That would apply to any imge installed with priv.
More over, it means that any non-dcl-verb command will not use the
installed image and go through a full file open, header parse, section
map and so on.
John M, is this something perl could pay attention to? Drop the
version?
fwiw... A program can find out whether an image is instralled by
flipping the undocumented FAB$V_KFO bit and check whether FAB$L_CTX is
non-zero returning a KFE address. This is what F$FILE(file,"KNOWN")
implements.
Hein.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 04:43:57 GMT
From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>
Subject: Re: How can I create symbol thru Perl "system" command?
Message-ID: <hSbui.54361$Fc.1023@attbi_s21>
Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote:
> On Aug 7, 10:53 pm, "Craig A. Berry" <craigbe...@mac.com.spamfooler>
> wrote:
>
>>In article <1186498136.631175.286...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
>> Hein RMS van den Heuvel <heinvandenheu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>$ spawn MCR SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]AUTHORIZE.EXE;1 show default/br
>>%DCL-S-SPAWNED, process CRAIG_35519 spawned
>>%DCL-S-ATTACHED, terminal now attached to process CRAIG_35519
>>%SYSTEM-F-NOAUDIT, operation requires AUDIT privilege
>>%DCL-S-RETURNED, control returned to process CRAIG
>>
>>There must be some funny business in AUTHORIZE that this trips over,
>>but clearly it's a special case whether you're in or out of Perl.
>
>
> Ah! AUTHORIZE is installed with AUDIT priv.
> The explicit version number in the spawn will instruct the system to
> bypass the installed image, thus the process will need its own privs.
> That would apply to any imge installed with priv.
>
> More over, it means that any non-dcl-verb command will not use the
> installed image and go through a full file open, header parse, section
> map and so on.
>
> John M, is this something perl could pay attention to? Drop the
> version?
>
> fwiw... A program can find out whether an image is instralled by
> flipping the undocumented FAB$V_KFO bit and check whether FAB$L_CTX is
> non-zero returning a KFE address. This is what F$FILE(file,"KNOWN")
> implements.
Perl does a LIB$FIND_FILE to obtain the image name that will be put in
the MCR command. I suppose that dropping the version number could be
done. I do not see why it would need to be restricted to installed images.
Craig, any thoughts? It should not be a big change.
There is a lot on my TODO list for Perl though, especially in getting
full support of EFS filenames to work.
-John
wb8tyw@qsl.network
Personal Opinion Only
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 04:51:08 -0000
From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: How can I create symbol thru Perl "system" command?
Message-ID: <1186548668.918167.83920@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 8, 12:43 am, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8...@qsl.network> wrote:
> Hein RMS van den Heuvel wrote:
:
> > fwiw... A program can find out whether an image is instralled by
> > flipping the undocumented FAB$V_KFO bit and check whether FAB$L_CTX is
> > non-zero returning a KFE address. This is what F$FILE(file,"KNOWN")
> > implements.
>
> Perl does a LIB$FIND_FILE to obtain the image name that will be put in
> the MCR command. I suppose that dropping the version number could be
> done. I do not see why it would need to be restricted to installed images.
Me neither. Just strip the version... more Unix like that way.
My known file comment was added for sake of completeness, not as a
suggestion it should be used. Sorry if it caused confusion.
Keep up the good work!
Hein.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 20:29:16 -0400
From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@dec.com>
Subject: Re: How much will Integrity cost?
Message-ID: <f9b2ov$70r$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>
We need help and suggestions like yours like we need additional holes in our
heads.
"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote in message
news:a6dc$46b8a030$cef8887a$18086@TEKSAVVY.COM...
> Note to tadamsmar:
>
> If yo are doing due diligence with regards to the future of your systems,
> you should also consider examining how much it would cost to move to
> Solaris, Linux, or AIX.
>
> If the current systems are stable, and are already using software from 3rd
> parties that have abandonned VMS, it will only get worse with time. And HP
> is now working to move VMS ISVs to HP-UX (Cerner being a prime example) so
> availability of software on VMS is more likely to get worse than to
> improve. There is only so much Sue can do to thwart Stallard and
> Livermore's efforts to kill off VMS.
>
> Downgrading to IA64s might be a nice exercise, but is it worth the trouble
> when you consider that eventually you'll have to migrate to another OS
> anyways ?
>
>
> And strategically, if everyone who leaves VMS now were to make it
> extremely clear to Hurd that they are not staying with HP, it would help
> discredit Stallard/Livermore's claims that they will be able to retain VMS
> customers and help them migrate to that HP-UX contraption on that IA64
> thing and perhaps help save VMS.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 23:07:06 +0000
From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>
Subject: RE: HP Datatrieve info contradictory
Message-ID: <C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BDD0910B7B8@G1W0487.americas.hpqcorp.net>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tadamsmar [mailto:tadamsmar@yahoo.com]
> Sent: August 7, 2007 1:01 PM
> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
> Subject: HP Datatrieve info contradictory
>
> The SPD indicates that it has been available on Integrity since May of
> 2006:
>
> http://h18000.www1.hp.com/info/SP5294/SP5294PF.PDF
>
> But the status web site indicates that the upgrade is still "planned"
> not "available":
>
> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/matrix/i64partner_h.html
SPD is legal and the go to doc when ever there is a question of support, so=
the web site needs updating.
I have sent a note to the internal folks looking after this site.
Regards
Kerry Main
Senior Consultant
HP Services Canada
Voice: 613-592-4660
Fax: 613-591-4477
kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
(remove the DOT's and AT)
OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:13:52 GMT
From: "Robert Jarratt" <nospam@nosp.am>
Subject: Re: Installing VMS without a bootable CD-ROM drive
Message-ID: <kg5ui.5442$mZ5.1059@newsfe6-win.ntli.net>
Well, here is my report regarding bootability of various drives with the
VAXstation 3100 M38. I had made an error that is so embarassing I would
rather not mention it here. Suffice to say that the following drives *do*
work on an M38 and I *can* boot off them. The drives that work are:
RRD43
CR-506B
I cannot boot from the following drive:
Sony CDU 55S
This drive gives me a DKBTDRIVER error when I try to boot off it.
Regards
Rob
"Robert Jarratt" <nospam@nosp.am> wrote in message
news:v3Oti.14956$h11.9992@newsfe7-gui.ntli.net...
> Thanks for all the suggestions, I am going to investigate SCSI
> cables/termination etc. further when my family allows me the time. I will
> report back.
>
> Regards
>
> Rob
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:43:49 -0400
From: Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.dot.com>
Subject: Re: Integrity Workstations?
Message-ID: <rdeininger-42F979.20434907082007@032-478-847.area7.spcsdns.net>
In article <1186490448.930404.59720@l70g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
tadamsmar <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 6, 8:45 pm, "AlexNOSPAMDani...@themail.co.uk"
> <alexdani...@themail.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 6 Aug, 22:25, Bob Gezelter <gezel...@rlgsc.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The key is that it is a "small server with a graphics card". Looks,
> > > tastes, and feels like a workstation, but it is not officially a
> > > "workstation".
> >
> > > If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and smells like a duck, it
> > > is probably a duck.
> >
> > I'd hardly say it "talks like a duck".
> >
> > HP have qualified the AD317A sound card with rx2660 hardware, but the
> > work has not been
> > done for use with VMS or at least it's not qualified anyway.
> >
> > Certainly not a true workstation.
> >
> > Alex
>
> Not qualified for VMS? That's not good. I guess we could move to
> servers and use X-terminals via ethernet.
>
> I have never worked with non-workstations. How do you manage a server
> without a monitor? Do you hook up a terminal via a serial port or
> something?
You can connect a terminal to a serial port, or a terminal emulator via
telnet. Or various other options.
Or you can use the available graphics adapter, and plug in a monitor,
keyboard and mouse. Most people would call that a passable workstation.
The other poster was lamenting the lack of support for sound hardware,
which is part of what he considers a workstation.
The AD317A sound card is not qualified for VMS because there is no
device driver for the card. Writing a driver isn't on VMS Engineering's
list of projects at the moment, because the demand for it appears to be
far too low to justify the work.
Nothing prevents others from creating a VMS device driver for a sound
card. If there's demand, maybe someone else will do it. VMS
engineering doesn't have to do everything.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 07:00:23 +0200
From: "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de>
Subject: Re: Integrity Workstations?
Message-ID: <op.twp5ixz9dc3j58@notemv-tap.mv.privat>
Tom Linden <tom@kednos.company> wrote:
> FredK <fred.nospam@dec.com> wrote:
>> Newer systems also have an optional firmware feature called iLO
>> (Integrated Lights Out - originally a Proliant feature) that allows
>> connection over the network via a web broswer [...]
>
> Can you also do it in the open on a secure connection?
The iLO2 SSH feature comes with the Advanced Option (that you have to
pay for, of course...)
cu,
Martin
--
One OS to rule them all | Martin Vorlaender | OpenVMS rules!
One OS to find them | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de
One OS to bring them all | http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/
And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin.vorlaender@t-online.de
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 07:07:32 +0200
From: "Martin Vorlaender" <mv@pdv-systeme.de>
Subject: Re: Layered products not available on IA64
Message-ID: <op.twp5uucvdc3j58@notemv-tap.mv.privat>
tadamsmar <tadamsmar@yahoo.com> wrote:
> IanMiller <g...@uk2.net> wrote:
>> Datatreive is available for OpenVMS on Integrity now.
>
> That's not what HP is posting:
>
> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/solutions/matrix/i64partner_h.html
HP is posting a lot...
A Datatrieve kit is on the current Software Products Library:
http://www1.aclabs.com/MasterIndex/final_lpl_vmsi64_q307/SPLVIQ307_354AI_7_3_SSB.shtml
> Datatrieve is listed as "planned".
>
> Can anyone explain this contradiction between Ian and HP?
Synchronization problems?
cu,
Martin
--
One OS to rule them all | Martin Vorlaender | OpenVMS rules!
One OS to find them | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de
One OS to bring them all | http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/
And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin.vorlaender@t-online.de
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 13:50:53 +0930
From: Jeremy Begg <nospam@vsm.com.au>
Subject: Re: LDAP tools for VMS
Message-ID: <46B944A5.8070805@vsm.com.au>
Hi Malcolm,
> Does anyone know where I can get hold of some useful LDAP utilities
> for VMS?
>
> For example ldapsearch, ldapadd, ldapmodify, ldapdelete
...
> We have an OpenLDAP Directory Server but a significant part of our user
> account management for staff and students is processed on VMS and
> distributed to other platforms - including the OpenLDAP server. It would
> be very handy if we could use the above tools to access the directory
> server directly from VMS, especially for things like testing.
>
> We have already written some modules using the C language application
> programming interface (API) for LDAP, but if the above tools are already
> available from VMS DCL why bother trying to write these ourselves.
There's an example program, SYS$EXAMPLES:LDAP_EXAMPLE.C, which is ldapsearch
by another name.
> That's interesting. Once upon a time we used Innosoft IDDS LDAP
> directory server on Sun Solaris, and a good one it was too until they
> sold it to Sun and it became unsupported. We would still be using it
> were it not for the fact we had no success increasing the licence count.
> I understand a VMS version was also made available but we did not get
> that.
I have IDDS here but we're not currently using LDAP (although that may
change soon). I've tried Enterprise Directory and it seems to work OK, but
it's very different to manage.
Have you tried building the OpenLDAP utilities on VMS? I tried building the
server several years ago but it was all too difficult.
Regards,
Jeremy Begg
(replace nospam by jeremy to reply)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 04:57:30 GMT
From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network>
Subject: Re: LDAP tools for VMS
Message-ID: <_2cui.54368$Fc.16587@attbi_s21>
Jeremy Begg wrote:
>
> Have you tried building the OpenLDAP utilities on VMS? I tried building
> the server several years ago but it was all too difficult.
The server requires a backend database, and I do not know if any of the
supported ones have been ported to OpenVMS.
I left build instructions for the Open LDAP client libraries, utilities
and test programs to the team at HP working on those products. It was
not a complete port as more work was needed to convert a fork() call to
vfork() on one of the programs. I do not remember if it was a utility
or a test program.
The Open LDAP library may end up being required for a fully functional
SAMBA with support for Active Directory, so you may want to direct your
queries to the team working on the Samba port.
The Open LDAP project is the successor to the project that the VMS
supplied LDAP library came from, and the configure script actually
checks for some features that essentially are VMS specific.
-John
wb8tyw@qsl.network
Personal Opinion Only
------------------------------
Date: 7 Aug 2007 21:47:26 GMT
From: healyzh@aracnet.com
Subject: Re: Linux (was Re: How many people here use Itanium w VMS)
Message-ID: <f9ap9e0nda@enews1.newsguy.com>
Michael Kraemer <M.Kraemer@gsi.de> wrote:
> not that I want to start an advocacy thread on favourite editors,
> but one might consider "nedit" as a replacement for *emacs,
> much lower footprint last time I checked and possibly also available for
> VMS.
Actually I'm already using nedit on VMS. However, given the choice, I'd use
xemacs if I could. This isn't to say that I like (x)emacs, but it does have
some advantages.
Zane
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 00:07:50 GMT
From: John Santos <john@egh.com>
Subject: Re: Maximum Java Heap Size/OpenVMS Java Experiences?
Message-ID: <qP7ui.11989$J13.5284@trnddc02>
P. Sture wrote:
> In article <tZQti.5637$J13.5449@trnddc02>, John Santos <john@egh.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>P. Sture wrote:
>>
>>>In article <1185990365.187329.66340@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>>> sean@obanion.us wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Out of sheer curiosity and thinking it would be easy, I tried to find
>>>>in the on-line documentation what the current maximum WSMAX value is,
>>>>since it looks like that's the next limit.
>>>
>>>
>>>If you do:
>>>
>>>$ MCR SYSGEN SHOW WSMAX
>>>
>>>you get something like this (taken on V8.3, Alpha)
>>>
>>>
>>>Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit Dynamic
>>>-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ---- -------
>>>WSMAX 393216 8192 1024 134217728 Pagelets
>>> internal value 24576 512 64 8388608 Pages
>>>
>>>$ write sys$output 134217728/2048 ! max in megabytes
>>>65536
>>>
>>>i.e. 64 GB, for Alpha running V8.3. You should repeat this on Itanium
>>>to check that SYSGEN uses the same maximum value there.
>>>
>>
>>On I64 V8.3:
>>
>>$ mcr sysgen show wsmax
>>Parameter Name Current Default Min. Max. Unit
>>Dynamic
>>-------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ----
>>-------
>>WSMAX 1089536 131072 16384 134217728 Pagelets
>> internal value 68096 8192 1024 8388608 Pages
>>
>>Same maximum, but much higher default and min values. "Current" value came
>>from AUTOGEN with feedback, AFAIK.
>>
>
>
> Thanks for that. Ditto here for the "Current" vaalue. Surprisingly, I
> don't see anything (on Alpha) about WSMAX in
> SYS$SYSTEM:AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT, though AUTOGEN is obviously calculating
> it.
>
The same on Itanium. I didn't set it explicitly, and there's nothing
in MODPARAMS.DAT or in AGEN$PARAMS.REPORT. My rx2620 came from the
porting workshop, and was pre-loaded with V8.2-1 (since upgraded to V8.3).
Maybe HP set it, or maybe AUTOGEN set it on the initial install and
the report is long gone.
--
John Santos
Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
781-861-0670 ext 539
------------------------------
Date: 7 Aug 2007 13:39:23 -0500
From: briggs@encompasserve.org
Subject: Re: OPA0 messages
Message-ID: <mWUfCVgcV1lo@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In article <op.twpbggnqhv4qyg@murphus>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company> writes:
> I tried NOINTERACTIVE following Fred's suggestion, but that did not
> suppress it. Have now tried NOBROADCAST, and we'll see.
As I've mentioned previously, /NOINTERACTIVE is synonymous with
/PASSALL and is deprecated/obsolete.
If you haven't already, you should probably turn /INTERACTIVE back
on.
------------------------------
Date: 7 Aug 2007 14:09:18 -0500
From: briggs@encompasserve.org
Subject: Re: OPA0 messages
Message-ID: <7o4XwaR6cNa2@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In article <op.twpbggnqhv4qyg@murphus>, "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company> writes:
> I tried NOINTERACTIVE following Fred's suggestion, but that did not
> suppress it. Have now tried NOBROADCAST, and we'll see.
I forgot one more obvious terminal setting. If the application
you are using to read from TTA0: doesn't already do so, you will want to
set TTA0: to /NOECHO.
[Failure scenario: OPCOM message goes out OPA0 to TTA0
Application reads text from TTA0:
By default, TTA0 echos OPCOM message to OPA0:
OPA0 sees unsolicited input and starts login sequence]
As a diagnostic measure on the OPA0: end you could also try
$ SET HOST /DTE OPA0
<hit a few keys and then press return>
^\ to exit
This may allow you to see or hear what kind of input is showing up on your
OPA0:, possibly in response to output generated there.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 20:35:07 -0400
From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@dec.com>
Subject: Re: OPA0 messages
Message-ID: <f9b33t$7am$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>
The expert told me earlier today... but I was in the middle of something and
asked him to send it to me in mail (which he hasn't done yet). One of the
attributes was SECURE SERVER but I need the rest of the magic handshake
(including which side gets which).
If certain people here were not so hostile, he would post himself. But he
has essentially decided he doesn't need the grief.
<briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote in message
news:g2zExVujADkN@eisner.encompasserve.org...
> In article <f9a63s$dnl$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>, "FredK"
> <fred.nospam@dec.com> writes:
>>
>>
>> There is a terminal characteristic... something like nointeractive
>
> /INTERACTIVE is the negation of /PASSALL
>
> /INTERACTIVE and /PASSALL are obsolete. I don't recall that they
> had any effect on the auto-activation of LOGINOUT.EXE in response
> to unsolicited input, but I suppose it's possible that there is
> such an interfaction.
>
> /PASSALL had the unfortunate side effect of disabling in-band flow
> control which is why it was made obsolete in favor of the less
> intrusive /PASTHRU setting.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:01:29 -0400
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Subject: Re: OPA0 messages
Message-ID: <3dcff$46b915ea$cef8887a$21754@TEKSAVVY.COM>
What would have been nice, and much simpler would have been a /NOLOGIN
qualifier to SET TERM.
This would have made it obvious that no matter what data arrives on that
port, a login process would not be started and the port would remain
inactive. Yet, it would still allow an application to assign a port to
it and use the remaining characteristics properly (including type ahead
buffer which is necessary when dealing with high speed serial lines).
BTW, also remember that /AUTOBAUD will result in a <BELL> character
being sent out the terminal port upon the terminal driver having
received a identifiable character (normally a carriage return) which
then allows the terminal driver to set the proper speed on the port.
Normally, upon completion of this, the terminal driver then starts the
login process.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 21:04:44 -0400
From: "FredK" <fred.nospam@dec.com>
Subject: Re: OPA0 messages
Message-ID: <f9b4re$8lp$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com>
See HELP SET TERM /SECURE
It tells you to set /NOAUTO and /SECURE - at which point only a BREAK will
cause a login attempt.
"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote in message
news:3dcff$46b915ea$cef8887a$21754@TEKSAVVY.COM...
> What would have been nice, and much simpler would have been a /NOLOGIN
> qualifier to SET TERM.
>
> This would have made it obvious that no matter what data arrives on that
> port, a login process would not be started and the port would remain
> inactive. Yet, it would still allow an application to assign a port to it
> and use the remaining characteristics properly (including type ahead
> buffer which is necessary when dealing with high speed serial lines).
>
>
> BTW, also remember that /AUTOBAUD will result in a <BELL> character being
> sent out the terminal port upon the terminal driver having received a
> identifiable character (normally a carriage return) which then allows the
> terminal driver to set the proper speed on the port.
>
> Normally, upon completion of this, the terminal driver then starts the
> login process.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 18:16:41 -0700
From: sapienzaf <sapienza@noesys.com>
Subject: Re: OPA0 messages
Message-ID: <1186535801.459656.266800@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 7, 12:11 pm, "Tom Linden" <t...@kednos.company> wrote:
> I have a console cable attached from TTA0 on a DS10L to OPA0 on
> an HP zx2000 (900MHz/1.5MB) running OpenVMS V8.3.
Has OpenVMS 8.3 been qualified on an HP zx2000 workstation?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:29:21 -0500
From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>
Subject: Re: OPA0 messages
Message-ID: <46B92A81.91E38789@spam.comcast.net>
Tom Linden wrote:
>
> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 10:02:34 -0700, <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote:
>
> > In article <op.two5xh1mhv4qyg@murphus.linden>, "Tom Linden"
> > <tom@kednos.company> writes:
> >> I have a console cable attached from TTA0 on a DS10L to OPA0 on
> >> an HP zx2000 (900MHz/1.5MB) running OpenVMS V8.3. TTA0 has been
> >> set to NOTYPEAHEAD
> >
> > [snip OPCOM message indicating a failed login attempt on OPA)]
> >
> > The /NOTYPEAHEAD setting on TTA0 will prevent console output
> > from OPA0: from triggering login processing on TTA0: That is, of
> > course, a good thing.
> >
> > But you're getting login processing on OPA0:
> >
> > That means two things:
> >
> > 1. You're getting unsolicited input on OPA0:
> > 2. You have /TYPEAHEAD set on OPA0:
> >
> > You can cure the symptoms by turning off /TYPEAHEAD on OPA0:
> > Unfortunately, that also breaks your console login capability in
> > case the system has problems and needs intervention.
> >
> > So what you really need to figure out is why OPA0: is getting input.
> >
> > In decreasing order of estimated plausibility:
> >
> > 1. You are using something like SET HOST /DTE TTA0 to monitor the
> > OPA0: console. Unfortunately, SET HOST /DTE sends a carriage return
> > upstream.
> >
> > I can't remember if I ever found a way to defeat that unfortunate
> > behavior.
> >
> > 2. You have /BROADCAST turned on on TTA0: and your broadcasts on
> > TTA0: are being received on OPA0:
> >
> > Turn off /BROADCAST on TTA0:
> >
> > 3. The receive wire on OPA0: is open at the TTA0: end. You are
> > getting cross-talk between the pairs and seeing a garbled version
> > of your OPA0: OPCOM output as OPA0: input.
>
> No.
> >
> > [I've seen this happen. 100-200 feet of cable that is open on the far
> > end is almost as good as a loopback connector]
> >
> > Either connect that lead at TTA0 or snip it at OPA0
> >
> > 4. You're getting flow control events reported from TTA0: to OPA0:
> > where they are getting taken as unsolicited input.
> >
> > This is a long shot. Check flow control settings on both ends and
> > make sure in particular that you don't get a ctrl-G reported back
> > for unsolicited, dropped input on TTA0:
> >
> >
> > You might also get relief by turning on /SECURE_SERVER
> > and /NOAUTOBAUD on OPA0:. That should suppress login processing
> > unless a spurious BREAK is received.
>
> I tried NOINTERACTIVE following Fred's suggestion, but that did not
> suppress it. Have now tried NOBROADCAST, and we'll see.
Someone else mentioned having TTA0 set for NOECHO so OPCOM messages, etc. don't
bounce back and appear as unsolicited input.
The machine doesn't read our mind; so, we have to find the right combination of
settings to accomplish what we want.
--
David J Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://www.djesys.com/
Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/
Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/
Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/
Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:20:02 -0700
From: "Tom Linden" <tom@kednos.company>
Subject: Re: OPA0 messages
Message-ID: <op.twp0vohnhv4qyg@murphus.linden>
On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:39:23 -0700, <briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote:
> In article <op.twpbggnqhv4qyg@murphus>, "Tom Linden"
> <tom@kednos.company> writes:
>> I tried NOINTERACTIVE following Fred's suggestion, but that did not
>> suppress it. Have now tried NOBROADCAST, and we'll see.
>
> As I've mentioned previously, /NOINTERACTIVE is synonymous with
> /PASSALL and is deprecated/obsolete.
>
> If you haven't already, you should probably turn /INTERACTIVE back
> on.
NOINTERACTIVE and NOBRADCAST didn't help
--
PL/I for OpenVMS
www.kednos.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 03:45:08 GMT
From: John Santos <john@egh.com>
Subject: Re: OPA0 messages
Message-ID: <8%aui.1956$Aj6.1474@trnddc01>
JF Mezei wrote:
> What would have been nice, and much simpler would have been a /NOLOGIN
> qualifier to SET TERM.
>
> This would have made it obvious that no matter what data arrives on that
> port, a login process would not be started and the port would remain
> inactive. Yet, it would still allow an application to assign a port to
> it and use the remaining characteristics properly (including type ahead
> buffer which is necessary when dealing with high speed serial lines).
>
>
> BTW, also remember that /AUTOBAUD will result in a <BELL> character
> being sent out the terminal port upon the terminal driver having
> received a identifiable character (normally a carriage return) which
> then allows the terminal driver to set the proper speed on the port.
>
> Normally, upon completion of this, the terminal driver then starts the
> login process.
Generally, when you have a terminal port that you don't want to log in,
you either have to allocate it to a process or set it /notypeahead.
Since the process might die, get deleted, or might not have started yet,
here's what I do.
1) During system startup (before logins are enabled):
$ set terminal TTA0:/notypeahead/permanent
2) Start up the control program. (This can be immediately, or on demand,
i.e. by using set terminal/dte or Kermit or whatever. Doesn't matter
if it is days or weeks after step 1, or only milliseconds later.)
$ allocate TTA0:
$ set terminal TTA0:/typeahead
$ ! Note absence of /permanent!
$ set host/dte TTA0:
$ ! or Kermit or run an application
The "allocate" and the "set terminal/typeahead" can be done with DCL
interactively or in a command file, or can be done in a program using
$ALLOC and $QIO with an IO$_SETMODE. (Don't use IO$_SETCHAR, that's the
equivalent of "set term/permanent"!)
3) When done, or the process dies, or you log off, or you deallocate the
terminal, the permanent characteristics are automatically restored, so
it reverts to /notypeahead.
--
John Santos
Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc.
781-861-0670 ext 539
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 04:19:15 GMT
From: dittman@dittman.net
Subject: OpenVMS and Smart Array Controllers
Message-ID: <7vbui.7695$dD3.456@trnddc07>
I notice the Smart Array 5302, 5304, 6402, 6404, and P400
controllers are supported on OpenVMS but the P600 is not.
Was there a reason why support for the P600 wasn't added?
I was looking at a way to add inexpensive large hard drives
to my home systems and thought the P600 would be ideal since
it works with SATA drives. I borrowed one to try and after
adding the PCI ID to SYS$SYSTEM:USER_CONFIG.DAT it does work
but not as a boot device. That's not a show-stopper for me
as there are a couple of SCSI drives in the system that are
used for the VMS system disk shadow set and a third hard
drive that's the dump device/scratch disk.
On the subject of using SATA disks with VMS:
I also tried a LSISAS1068-based controller and it worked on
my rx2620 with SATA drives with no changes to the system needed.
The system will boot from the disk but it VMS crashes shortly
into the boot. As with the P600 this isn't a problem for me
since I can boot from SCSI disks.
Neither option is supported but I don't have support on the
systems. I did a lot of testing on the drives and didn't see
any issues but I have the data backed up to tape.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman@dittman.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:38:36 -0700
From: Ken Fairfield <Ken@Napili.Fairfield.Home>
Subject: Reflection-X and DEC fonts
Message-ID: <5hss34F3mj72sU1@mid.individual.net>
While researching my troubles with Reflection and my LK461 keyboard,
I saw a post from John Malmberg complaining about font troubles with
DECterms.
I was having similar problems under Reflection-X V10.0.0 (I think
his was V6.x). I solved it by doing the following:
1) On my VMS system, I ZIP'd Sys$Common:[Sysfont.Decw.*] to get
grab all the .PCF font files (I got some other files as well,
but not to worry). Don't use any switches for ZIP.
2) FTP'd the ZIP file to my PC.
3) I created a new directory tree for the fonts on my PC (best to
leave the Reflection/X/font tree intact) and UNZIP'd the files
to that tree. I chose to put them under
"My Documents\Reflection\Fonts\Decw\100dpi",
"..\75dpi",
"..\common"
etc.
4) Some, but not all, of the [Sysfont.Decw.*] directories include
"alias" files named something like DECW$FONT_ALIAS*.DAT. These
will be in the ZIP file, but in the wrong file format. FTP back
to your VMS system (for this handful of files) and do an ASCII
transfer to your PC. On the PC, in the corresponding directory,
name each file "fonts.ali".
5) In Reflection X, under Settings -> Fonts, change the "Base Directory"
for the font files to wherever you put them in (3). In my case,
that would be "My Documents\Reflection\Fonts\Decw".
6) There should be a Make Font Directory button. Click on that, then
"Browse" to each subdirectory that contains PCF files and click on
the Make Font Directory button. This will create a "fonts.dir"
file in each subdirectory you Browse to.
7) Change the list of fonts to specify the subdirectory names under
your new Decw tree.
That's it. No more problems with DECterm fonts. :-) :-)
-Ken
P.S. I suppose if you needed any of the Sun, or IBM, etc., fonts,
you'd need to do a bit more. Basically, just copy those from
the Reflection installation to a subdirectory of the same name
under the Decw tree, then add the subdirectory to the font list.
--
Ken & Ann Fairfield
What: Ken dot And dot Ann
Where: Gmail dot Com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 22:45:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: sms@antinode.org (Steven M. Schweda)
Subject: Re: Reflection-X and DEC fonts
Message-ID: <07080722453236_202003EE@antinode.org>
From: Ken Fairfield <Ken@Napili.Fairfield.Home>
> 4) Some, but not all, of the [Sysfont.Decw.*] directories include
> "alias" files named something like DECW$FONT_ALIAS*.DAT. These
> will be in the ZIP file, but in the wrong file format. FTP back
> to your VMS system (for this handful of files) and do an ASCII
> transfer to your PC. On the PC, in the corresponding directory,
> name each file "fonts.ali".
No bets, but "unzip -a" might do the format conversion:
-a auto-convert any text files
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven M. Schweda sms@antinode-org
382 South Warwick Street (+1) 651-699-9818
Saint Paul MN 55105-2547
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:19:21 -0700
From: Ken Fairfield <Ken@Napili.Fairfield.Home>
Subject: Reflection/Reflection-X V10.0 and LK461 keyboard anomalies
Message-ID: <5hsqv1F3kru9rU1@mid.individual.net>
At my new place of employment, I'm using a "standard" PC running
Windows XP/SP2 and using "Reflection for Unix and Digital" V10.0
(telnet) and/or "Reflection X" (DECterms, etc.) V10.0.0 to get to
our VMS systems.
I'm using and LK461-A2 keyboard on the PC, just as I've done for
the past 6 years in a couple of other environments going back
to Windows 2000 Professional.
I'm having the following problems:
Reflection-X v10.0.0:
1) Using selecting the LK450 key map, the KP-Minus and KP-Comma
are swapped (most easily demonstrated by a SHOW KEY in EVE)
so I've had to make customized key map to swap them back.
Not serious, but in the interest of completeness...
2) I'm unable to DISABLE NumLock: if I use PF1 in DECterm and EVE,
PF1 is transmitted to the DECterm but it *also* toggles the
numeric keypad! As a result, until I press PF1 a second time,
the numeric keypad is all fouled up!!!
Reflection for Unix and Digital v10.0:
3) Again using the LK450 key map, Reflection fails to respond to
any of the following keys:
F13, F14, Help, Do, F17, KP-Minus
In EVE, doing a SHOW KEY and pressing any of those keys does
*nothing*. They're "dead" keys, nothing transmitted to the host.
Note: PF1 works just fine and doesn't toggle NumLock like
Reflection-X does.
Questions:
A) Has anyone else encountered this in Reflection V10? If so,
how did you fix it?
B) The Attachmate web site indicates there's a "fix" for
(unspecified) problems using LK450, LK461 or LK462 keyboards
in Reflection 10: a downloadable keyboard driver for Windows.
But you need a support contract to get at it (I'm working on
that, but...). Have any of you tried that driver?
C) Is there any way to completely disable the NumLock function
of PF1 in Reflection X (short of the replacement keyboard
driver)?
I'd ask Attachmate, but their support seems to be restricted to those
with an active support contract, or VPA (volume purchase agreement).
We're pretty sure we have a VPA, but tracking down the paperwork is
going to be difficult. :-( Also, I'm pretty sure they'd simply say
"upgrade" before working the problem...
Oh, and this is a non-profit organization that has to keep costs to
the minimum, so all the PC's are cookie-cutter configurations and
they won't want an odd-ball version installed on my desktop...nor
could I justify the cost of new software.
Thanks, Ken
P.S. For the previous 6 years, I used various LK46x keyboards on
various versions of W2K and WXP using KEA! and Exceed and
*never* had these problems! Is it just the old version of
Reflection??? People here seem to have been so positive about
this product over the years, but it's giving me headaches!
--
Ken & Ann Fairfield
What: Ken dot And dot Ann
Where: Gmail dot Com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:10:25 +0200
From: krischik@users.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: Rexx for OpenVMS
Message-ID: <1909965.vLyQzVcc0y@linux1.krischik.com>
Tom Linden wrote:
> Is this available?
I would just love that as well. And if you google for "OpenVMS REXX" there
are in fact hits. Only there seem to be no download available :-( .
Martin
--
mailto://krischik@users.sourceforge.net
Ada programming at: http://ada.krischik.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 23:07:05 +0000
From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Rexx for OpenVMS
Message-ID: <C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BDD0910B7B7@G1W0487.americas.hpqcorp.net>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: krischik@users.sourceforge.net
> [mailto:krischik@users.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: August 7, 2007 2:10 PM
> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
> Subject: Re: Rexx for OpenVMS
>
> Tom Linden wrote:
>
> > Is this available?
>
> I would just love that as well. And if you google for "OpenVMS REXX"
> there
> are in fact hits. Only there seem to be no download available :-( .
>
> Martin
> --
> mailto://krischik@users.sourceforge.net
> Ada programming at: http://ada.krischik.com
Try REXX and VMS or Open-VMS .. not sure if this fixes the download problem=
, but will likely give you more hits.
:-)
http://www.planetmvs.com/rexxanywhere/
http://www.slac.stanford.edu/cgi-wrap/getdoc/rexx90-009.pdf
other hits as well ..
Regards
Kerry Main
Senior Consultant
HP Services Canada
Voice: 613-592-4660
Fax: 613-591-4477
kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
(remove the DOT's and AT)
OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:20:10 -0500
From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Suggestion: F$FAO question
Message-ID: <46B9285A.577884B9@spam.comcast.net>
Tom Linden wrote:
>
> On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 11:24:12 -0700, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.company> wrote:
>
> > HAFNER> echo f$fao("!5AS","5")
> > 5
> >
> > This left-justifies the output. Now looking at the HELP description I
> > see
> >
> > !n<...!> None Left-justifies and blank-fills all
> > data
> > represented by the instructions . . .
> > in
> > fields n characters wide.
> > isn't this superfluous? I ask because what I really wanted was
> > right-justified.
> >
> > Too bad we don't have Rexx on VMS.
>
> I think that this !nAS directive should be extended as follows
> !nASL same as !nAS
> !nASR right justifies
I'd suggest these instead:
![n]AL ASCII text, left justified (same as ![n]AS)
![n]AR ASCII text, right justified
...rather than try to accomodate inconsistencies in the operator length.
--
David J Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://www.djesys.com/
Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/
Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/
Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/
Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 04:45:41 -0000
From: Hein RMS van den Heuvel <heinvandenheuvel@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Suggestion: F$FAO question
Message-ID: <1186548341.451265.307510@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 6, 9:43 pm, "Tom Linden" <t...@kednos.company> wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 11:24:12 -0700, Tom Linden <t...@kednos.company> wrote:
> > I ask because what I really wanted was right-justified.
>
> > Too bad we don't have Rexx on VMS.
the c- printf formatting available through perl and awk will often do
just fine.
> I think that this !nAS directive should be extended as follows
> !nASL same as !nAS
> !nASR right justifies
You know better...
That would break all existing programs where the text "L" or "R"
follows an !AS.
With a wink to printf, I'd like !-nAS, but that would also break
legal albeit useless constructs like: $ write sys$output f$fao("!AS!-
AS!AS","xx")
xxASxx
So I would have to suggest a generic - or R modifier to !n
To be applicable to AS, AD as well as <.
For example F$FAO("!10-AS : !AS",name,value)
Runner up: !nRAS
fwiw,
Hein.
> --
> PL/I for OpenVMSwww.kednos.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:25:07 +0200
From: Martin Krischik <krischik@users.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: TPU on MAC OS-X ?
Message-ID: <1615375.22NOzJ5N3m@linux1.krischik.com>
Bob Koehler wrote:
> As many products in many industries have proven, being stable is not
> the same as being dead.
Depends on your definition on dead and stable. Mine is defined around the
German proverb "Stillstand ist Rückschritt" - which translates to "To stand
still is to go back" (because everybody else around you move foreward).
Which in turn means that to keep stable you have to move foreward at a
moderate rate and if you don't move foreward at all you are - or soon will
be - dead.
Martin
--
mailto://krischik@users.sourceforge.net
Ada programming at: http://ada.krischik.com
------------------------------
Date: 7 Aug 2007 16:02:52 -0500
From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)
Subject: Re: TPU on MAC OS-X ?
Message-ID: <sZHyVmauOWZC@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In article <1615375.22NOzJ5N3m@linux1.krischik.com>, Martin Krischik <krischik@users.sourceforge.net> writes:
> Bob Koehler wrote:
>
>> As many products in many industries have proven, being stable is not
>> the same as being dead.
>
> Depends on your definition on dead and stable. Mine is defined around the
> German proverb "Stillstand ist Rückschritt" - which translates to "To stand
> still is to go back" (because everybody else around you move foreward).
Since my EVE based editor is still the best I've had, the others are
still catching up.
I only know of one feature, which I use on rare ocasion, that my
EVE based editor doesn't have that would be nice to have. If I
really wanted it that much, I'd probably write some TPU so I could
have it, just like some of my coworkers write some elisp to have the
features they want in thier emacs based editors.
Of course, we could go around and around on the religions of which
editor is best, but you can't convince me that we aren't in an
it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it situation with TPU.
If you don't have the TPU code to do your favorite editor trick,
that's not TPU's fault.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:28:40 -0400
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Subject: Re: TPU on MAC OS-X ?
Message-ID: <89726$46b90e39$cef8887a$25546@TEKSAVVY.COM>
Bob Koehler wrote:
> but you can't convince me that we aren't in an
> it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it situation with TPU.
Before people gave up on TPU, there were often requests to add features
to it. One that was often made but never implemented was the ability for
TPU code to translate logical names (or perhaps even set them) as well
as symbols. It was never implemented.
Since people have given up on TPU, they no longer send in requests for
improvements, so VMS management applaud themselves for having made the
right decision to offshore TPU maintenance since nobody wants any
changes to it.
The best thing that could happen to Microsoft is if it inherited VMS
management. They would be great at finding excuses/reasons to NOT
implement something in Windows. And Windows would become letharigic like
VMS.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 15:38:23 +1000
From: Jim Duff <spam.this@127.0.0.1>
Subject: Re: TPU on MAC OS-X ?
Message-ID: <46b956d0$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>
JF Mezei wrote:
> Bob Koehler wrote:
>> but you can't convince me that we aren't in an
>> it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it situation with TPU.
>
> Before people gave up on TPU, there were often requests to add features
> to it. One that was often made but never implemented was the ability for
> TPU code to translate logical names (or perhaps even set them) as well
> as symbols. It was never implemented.
>
>[snip]
erm, see TPU procedure CALL_USER? It's trivial to implement logical
name and symbol functions using a user written program.
<http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6020/6020pro_002.html#6020built1_12>
Jim.
--
www.eight-cubed.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 21:13:57 -0500
From: David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net>
Subject: Re: VMS cluster behind a *NIX firewall
Message-ID: <46B926E5.F7BEEC2E@spam.comcast.net>
Paul Raulerson wrote:
>
> That process stuff looks pretty good, are you using it?
(Still) Using it in production for some applications. Cerner stopped
certifying it to cut costs on heir end - raises costs on the customer
end due to PSC features which are lacking in UCX.
> I'll probably stick
> with the UCX stuff to avoid licensing costs, and I have to say, the 8.3 TCP
> stuff is significantly better than the 7.x versions.
I believe the current UCX version is V5.6 + ECOs. Certain newer UCX
versions require VMS V8 or better, however.
> The other area ix VM; VMS is really still a one virtual machine beastie,
> which kind of surprises me. Galaxy is perhaps a good start, but nothing like
> the systems I am used to using. :)
Virtual machines are meant to host o.s.-es, not the other way around.
VAX and Alpha emulators under Windows and Linux have distorted this
because those o.s.-es are used to provide the hardware asbraction
layers that the CPU emulation environments still lack.
Ideally, the VAX/Alpha on x86 scenario would look like this:
Applications
Operating System (VMS)
CPU Emulation layer
VMware
x86 platform
>From the CPU Emulation layer on up could be multiple instances
("Cluster in a box"). Native x86 environments would not need the CPU
Emulation layer, of course.
> There is a third area, but the call is still out on that; it would be
> Virtual Terminal Services.
That exists, and has for decades. However, I see some confusion in
terminology here.
When we talk about "Virtual Terminal Services" in VMSland, we think of
having a logical/physical terminal (TNA or LTA device, or a Txcu
device) "connected" to a virtual terminal (VTA) device such that if
the network layer causes a disconnect the process stays alive and can
be reconnected simply by attempting to log back in. The system will
detect that you have disconnected virtual terminal(s) and ask if you
want to reconnect or start a new session.
What you appear to be asking about is roughly akin to the UN*X
"termcap" facility which drives various software layers (sometimes
referred to as "curses" routines) to enable forms-driven applications
on character-cell screens.
> There are all sorts of ways to make VMS drive
> different kinds of terminals,
You'll want to look into SMG. See the following...
> but all of them are complex
Not much worse than "termcap" and "curses", really...
> and the terminals
> or terminal emulators are rather - shall we say - eclectic? Good as word as
> any I suppose. I can see why most VMS people are driving towards GUI and Web
> interfaces - even the web seems pretty standardized compared to getting a
> terminal emulator to work well with everything. And you apparently need
> relatively expensive third party software to connect a terminal up under
> DecNet;
Not really. The SET HOST command defaults to using a DEC-proprietary
protocol known as CTERM. The enabling pieces ship with DECnet. SET
HOST/LAT uses the LAT protocol which now ships with the base o.s., was
previous shipped with DECnet. SET HOST/TELNET is enabled by the IP
stack (UCX, Multinet, TCPware, ...).
> so I don't know if that makes the NVT more consistent or not.
>
> <grin> Of course, that could just be my ignorance speaking, but for heaven's
> sake - applications are not very screen driven under VMS. The ALL-In-One
> stuff looks pretty nice, but expensive and apparently not available under
> Itanium.</grin>
Well, the under-pinnings have been there for decades. See the
documentation on "Screen Managemenat Guidelines", the SMG$ routines.
The "screen" engine used by All-in-1 is called FMS. To my knowledge,
that is being carried forward in at least one of two possible forms:
either FMS itself or what came to be known at one time as "DECforms".
I believe DECforms (or its successor) may have had a web-enablement
layer added at one time. Perhaps someone will pipe up about that.
(This was originally sent to Paul privately via Google Groups. Paul responded
privately, but I'm unable to quote his response properly. Paul, please repost
your reply to the group, and I'll post my response to that later.)
--
David J Dachtera
dba DJE Systems
http://www.djesys.com/
Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page
http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/
Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/
Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/
Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page:
http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:35:46 -0700
From: jhjr4381 <daniel.horgan@infor.com>
Subject: Re: VMS OS req'd progression
Message-ID: <1186511746.896028.313900@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 6, 11:41 am, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.M...@hp.com> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jhjr4381 [mailto:daniel.hor...@infor.com]
> > Sent: August 6, 2007 8:48 AM
> > To: Info-...@Mvb.Saic.Com
> > Subject: VMS OS req'd progression
>
> > I am working on a plan to migrate our older VMS & Vax servers to the
> > latest version on each. I have searched the HP site for hours trying
> > to find a page that would show me the required migration paths for the
> > various releases.
> > For example, one Alpha system is on release 6.2. What is the migration
> > path that I am required to take to get to 7.3-x? Can I go right to
> > 7.3-1, or must I go to 7.0 or 7.1 first, then to 7.3-x?
> > Does anybody have that info, or a link to a page, or do I have to read
> > the release/install manuals for each release to determine the correct
> > path(s).
>
> > Thanks,
> > Dan
>
> Dan,
>
> You likely already know this, but OpenVMS V7.3-2 is a fairly old version (released late 2003).
>
> The latest version (Alpha and Integrity) of OpenVMS is V8.3.
>
> The latest public patches for OpenVMS V8.3 can be found at:ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/alpha/V8.3/ftp://ftp.itrc.hp.com/openvms_patches/alpha/V8.3/ALPHA_V83A_MASTER_EC...
>
> OpenVMS release history:http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/os/openvms-release-history.html
>
> Regards
>
> Kerry Main
> Senior Consultant
> HP Services Canada
> Voice: 613-592-4660
> Fax: 613-591-4477
> kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
> (remove the DOT's and AT)
>
> OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks Kerry,
Yes, I am aware. We have to upgrade, but are limited to keeping some
systems at certain levels because customers have not yet migrated. I
did migrate one system to VMS 8.2 last fall. I was wondering if the
'interim' software releases were available so I could take the servers
through the upgrade path(s) necessary. Also, I would need release/
install notes to take me through the tasks. I can't plan it if this
stuff isn't available. Do you have a link for the older docs. The HP
site seems to stop at 7.3-2.
Thanks,
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 23:04:52 +0000
From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>
Subject: RE: VMS OS req'd progression
Message-ID: <C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BDD0910B7B9@G1W0487.americas.hpqcorp.net>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jhjr4381 [mailto:daniel.horgan@infor.com]
> Sent: August 7, 2007 2:36 PM
> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
> Subject: Re: VMS OS req'd progression
>
[snip]
>
> Thanks Kerry,
>
> Yes, I am aware. We have to upgrade, but are limited to keeping some
> systems at certain levels because customers have not yet migrated. I
> did migrate one system to VMS 8.2 last fall. I was wondering if the
> 'interim' software releases were available so I could take the servers
> through the upgrade path(s) necessary. Also, I would need release/
> install notes to take me through the tasks. I can't plan it if this
> stuff isn't available. Do you have a link for the older docs. The HP
> site seems to stop at 7.3-2.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan
>
HP has written some very good OpenVMS planning documents that will take you=
from VAX or Alpha to Integrity. They are called transition modules.
Reference:
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/new/index.html or
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/integrity/transition/modules.html
Feedback of any kind is welcome at transition_modules@hp.com !
External doc`s are available online at:
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/os83_index.html (Current)
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/archived.html (archived)
Also, see whitepapers on Integrity porting at:
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/resources.html
Regards
Kerry Main
Senior Consultant
HP Services Canada
Voice: 613-592-4660
Fax: 613-591-4477
kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
(remove the DOT's and AT)
OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:00:45 -0400
From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion
Message-ID: <752c3$46b8b34e$cef8887a$5871@TEKSAVVY.COM>
Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> Never gonna happen!!! HP will never sell it and IBM would never want it.
As long as the idiot middle managers keep on brainwashing Hurd that they
can retain VMS customers and move them to HP-UX, then Hurd isn't going
to consider selling VMS.
If, on the other hand, it would be made very clear to Hurd that those 2
idiots are manipulating him and that not growing VMS means losing those
customers to competitors, then HP might see an advantage of selling VMS
to a friendly outfit. This way, HP gets some money from the sale of VMS
and its custormers and wouldn't be giving more market share to IBM/Sun.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 15:14:10 -0500
From: Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion
Message-ID: <mo4ui.6091$Pv4.3716@newsfe19.lga>
On 08/07/07 12:23, Larry Kilgallen wrote:
> In article <e65e1$46b865b6$cef8a2a3$1469@TEKSAVVY.COM-Free>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:
>> http://tinyurl.com/39ptaq
>>
>> and
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/2r2w7x
>>
>> and
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/2nekbx
>>
>>
>> Too bad VMS doesn't have one @ HP.
>
> Too bad some people enter content free posts in the mistaken belief
> that we will rush to follow their explicitly blinded URLs rather than
> simply killfiling their future posts.
Man, that's unnecessarily hostile. We all know the purpose of tinyurl.
--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA
Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:45:59 GMT
From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG
Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion
Message-ID: <bS4ui.40$Fn.28@newsfe12.lga>
In article <mo4ui.6091$Pv4.3716@newsfe19.lga>, Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net> writes:
>
>
>On 08/07/07 12:23, Larry Kilgallen wrote:
>> In article <e65e1$46b865b6$cef8a2a3$1469@TEKSAVVY.COM-Free>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:
>>> http://tinyurl.com/39ptaq
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/2r2w7x
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/2nekbx
>>>
>>>
>>> Too bad VMS doesn't have one @ HP.
>>
>> Too bad some people enter content free posts in the mistaken belief
>> that we will rush to follow their explicitly blinded URLs rather than
>> simply killfiling their future posts.
>
>Man, that's unnecessarily hostile. We all know the purpose of tinyurl.
I think Larry would rather you put up the http://preview.tinyURL.com/blah
links which take on to the tinyURL.com site and show the longer URL before
following the link.
I have posted a few tinyURL.com links here lately and I too should have
used the http://preview.tinyURL.com link. Larry is just concerned as he
is "blind" to where that link is taking him. I know some organizations
frown on their employees downloading porn. Somebody could put some porn
site into tinyURL.com and send you a link. The next thing you know, you
are downloading porn against company policy.
As for Larry's other sentiments, I will let him speak for himself.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM
"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"
http://tmesis.com/drat.html
------------------------------
Date: 7 Aug 2007 17:07:35 -0500
From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen)
Subject: Re: Wonderful things happen to an OS when it has an internal champion
Message-ID: <z0T$7qKIopWR@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In article <mo4ui.6091$Pv4.3716@newsfe19.lga>, Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net> writes:
> On 08/07/07 12:23, Larry Kilgallen wrote:
>> In article <e65e1$46b865b6$cef8a2a3$1469@TEKSAVVY.COM-Free>, "John Smith" <a@nonymous.com> writes:
>>> http://tinyurl.com/39ptaq
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/2r2w7x
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/2nekbx
>>>
>>>
>>> Too bad VMS doesn't have one @ HP.
>>
>> Too bad some people enter content free posts in the mistaken belief
>> that we will rush to follow their explicitly blinded URLs rather than
>> simply killfiling their future posts.
>
> Man, that's unnecessarily hostile. We all know the purpose of tinyurl.
The purpose is to help people who have trouble with copy and paste,
and proper use of tinyurl would include an accompanying explanation
of the site to which it will take you (including a warning about any
registration or insecurity requirements) and an indication of the
subject matter.
There is nothing wrong with posting a tinyurl reference - what is wrong
is posting _only_ a tinyurl reference with no explanation whatsoever.
------------------------------
End of INFO-VAX 2007.431
************************