INFO-VAX Mon, 06 Aug 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 427
Contents:
Re: DECNET on IA64 ?
Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Re: gSOAP on OpenVMS? VMS as Web Service *client*
Re: July the 4th
Re: July the 4th
LDAP tools for VMS
Re: Stay on Alpha forever?
Re: Stay on Alpha forever?
RE: Stay on Alpha forever?
Re: What does GEM mean?
Re: What does GEM mean?
Re: YAEQ: Yet Another Editor Question
RE: YAEQ: Yet Another Editor Question
Re: YAEQ: Yet Another Editor Question
RE: YAEQ: Yet Another Editor Question
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 03:42:58 +0000 (UTC)
From: moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Subject: Re: DECNET on IA64 ?
Message-ID: <f965c1$cvk$1@pcls6.std.com>
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:
>Ok, this may sound really silly, but does the real DECNET (phase 4)
>exist on IA64 ? Since it has been in "maintenance mode" for ages,
>perhaps it was easy for some wintel employee at Compaq to not include it
>in the list of software to port to iA64 ?
I'm managing a system running DECnet IV on an rx3600.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 11:20:53 -0700
From: Doug Phillips <dphill46@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Message-ID: <1186338053.205628.73240@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 5, 12:33 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 5, 12:46 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> [...]
>
>
>
> > Apparently the main sticking point is that we had very different ideas
> > of what "current version" means. To me, PURGE means, above all else,
> > make sure you keep at least the highest-numbered version. When I
>
> Sorry, replace "highest-numbered version" with "current version". I
> mean here the highest-numbered version of ALL the versions of the file
> in question, irrespective of any selection qualifiers that might be
> present. This is the raison d'etre for the PURGE command. And this
> version, the current version, always contributes to the keep count.
>
> > execute or read a file without specifying its version number, it will
> > always run the current version. And that's because the default for a
> > missing version-number spec is ";" (see my second paragraph way, way
> > above). (Does anyone actually have command procedures that run
> > explicitly specified intermediate versions?) So "my current version"
> > is far more important than any intermediate version. How can an
> > intermediate version ever be the current version? Come to think of it,
> > I find the term "most-current" to be somewhat nonsensical. You're
> > current or you're not.
>
> [...]
I'll reply here rather that waste band-width quoting one of our other
incredibly long and winding posts.
AEF, purge does not work the way you describe.
Since you can't look at ITRC, and see Jon Pinkley's reproducer I'll
paste it in here (hope you don't mind, Jon). It'll probably wrap, but
I can't help that.
I've commented out the analyze/image (your VAX v6.2 would probably
choke on it), removed the double-dates from the directory display, put
some "white space" around the purge command, and shortened the exit to
just exit. Other than the mod notice, it's as it was.
He included both creation and modification dates on the create fdl
lines so you can "play" with different purge qualifies if you want.
This reproducer purges on by_owner.
Run it, see what it does. Change the purge to whatever you want, and
run it as many times as you want. Based on the results, what does
PURGE consider the "current version" to be?
###################################################
$! Q&D to reproduce purge bug where one less version is kept than
expected.
$! Jon Pinkley 2007-02-23 (minor mod's by Doug Phillips 2007-08-05)
$ directory/own/date pt.tmp;*
$ read sys$command /prompt="Ok to delete all pt.tmp files and
recreate? : " ok
$ if .not. ok then goto _exit
$ delete:=delete
$ create:=create
$ directory:=directory
$ purge:=purge
$ show:=show
$ analyze:=analyze
$ delete pt.tmp;*
$ show system/noproc ! not portable ...
$!$ analyze/image/select=(id,link) sys$system:delete.exe; ! not
portable ...
$!
$ create/fdl=sys$input pt.tmp;1
file;organization sequential;owner [1,4];date;creation "5-JAN-2000
01:00";revision "5-JAN-2000 01:01"
$ create/fdl=sys$input pt.tmp;2
file;organization sequential;owner [1,4];date;creation "4-JAN-2000
01:00";revision "4-JAN-2000 01:01"
$ create/fdl=sys$input pt.tmp;3
file;organization sequential;owner [1,1];date;creation "3-JAN-2000
01:00";revision "3-JAN-2000 01:01"
$ create/fdl=sys$input pt.tmp;4
file;organization sequential;owner [1,1];date;creation "2-JAN-2000
01:00";revision "2-JAN-2000 01:01"
$ create/fdl=sys$input pt.tmp;5
file;organization sequential;owner [1,4];date;creation "1-JAN-2000
01:00";revision "1-JAN-2000 01:01"
$ directory/own/date pt.tmp;*
$!
$ purge/keep=2/by_own=[1,1]/log pt.tmp
$!
$ directory/own/date pt.tmp;*
$_exit:
$ exit
#######################################
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 12:10:35 -0700
From: AEF <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Message-ID: <1186341035.865167.278750@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 5, 2:20 pm, Doug Phillips <dphil...@netscape.net> wrote:
> On Aug 5, 12:33 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 5, 12:46 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > [...]
>
> > > Apparently the main sticking point is that we had very different ideas
> > > of what "current version" means. To me, PURGE means, above all else,
> > > make sure you keep at least the highest-numbered version. When I
>
> > Sorry, replace "highest-numbered version" with "current version". I
> > mean here the highest-numbered version of ALL the versions of the file
> > in question, irrespective of any selection qualifiers that might be
> > present. This is the raison d'etre for the PURGE command. And this
> > version, the current version, always contributes to the keep count.
>
> > > execute or read a file without specifying its version number, it will
> > > always run the current version. And that's because the default for a
> > > missing version-number spec is ";" (see my second paragraph way, way
> > > above). (Does anyone actually have command procedures that run
> > > explicitly specified intermediate versions?) So "my current version"
> > > is far more important than any intermediate version. How can an
> > > intermediate version ever be the current version? Come to think of it,
> > > I find the term "most-current" to be somewhat nonsensical. You're
> > > current or you're not.
>
> > [...]
>
> I'll reply here rather that waste band-width quoting one of our other
> incredibly long and winding posts.
>
> AEF, purge does not work the way you describe.
Yes it does.
> Since you can't look at ITRC, and see Jon Pinkley's reproducer I'll
> paste it in here (hope you don't mind, Jon). It'll probably wrap, but
> I can't help that.
>
> I've commented out the analyze/image (your VAX v6.2 would probably
> choke on it), removed the double-dates from the directory display, put
> some "white space" around the purge command, and shortened the exit to
> just exit. Other than the mod notice, it's as it was.
>
> He included both creation and modification dates on the create fdl
> lines so you can "play" with different purge qualifies if you want.
But then why was /date=(c,m) included in the DIR command when the
example only purges by owner?
> This reproducer purges on by_owner.
>
> Run it, see what it does. Change the purge to whatever you want, and
> run it as many times as you want. Based on the results, what does
> PURGE consider the "current version" to be?
[... DCL code omitted ...]
OK. I copied the code to my system, tidied it up, and ran it.
It works exactly as I have described:
$ directory/own/date pt.tmp;* ! we don't need /DATE here -- I
forgot to trim it off
Directory DISK$DATA1:[TEST.DCL.PURGE]
PT.TMP;5 1-JAN-2000 01:00:43.50 [SYSTEM]
PT.TMP;4 2-JAN-2000 01:00:43.39 [1,1]
PT.TMP;3 3-JAN-2000 01:00:43.28 [1,1]
PT.TMP;2 4-JAN-2000 01:00:43.17 [SYSTEM]
PT.TMP;1 5-JAN-2000 01:00:43.07 [SYSTEM]
Total of 5 files.
$!
$ purge/keep=2/by_own=[1,1]/log pt.tmp
%PURGE-I-FILPURG, DISK$DATA1:[TEST.DCL.PURGE]PT.TMP;3 deleted (0
blocks)
$!
$ directory/own/date pt.tmp;*
Directory DISK$DATA1:[TEST.DCL.PURGE]
PT.TMP;5 1-JAN-2000 01:00:43.50 [SYSTEM]
PT.TMP;4 2-JAN-2000 01:00:43.39 [1,1]
PT.TMP;2 4-JAN-2000 01:00:43.17 [SYSTEM]
PT.TMP;1 5-JAN-2000 01:00:43.07 [SYSTEM]
Total of 4 files.
$_exit:
$ exit
The current version is PT.TMP;5. As I said last time, the current
version _always_ contributes to the keep-count. So it kept two
versions: ;5 and ;4.
Had I omitted the /KEEP=2 or specified /KEEP=1, it would have also
deleted PT.TMP;4, keeping one version.
The keep-count is the sum of the following two things:
1. The number 1 for the current version
2. The number of old versions that match /BY_OWNER=[1,1]
Nothing else contributes to the keep-count. In this example, the
initial keep-count (which is a function of the selction qualifiers) is
3 which is from ;5, ;4, and ;3 because ;5 is the current version and
versions ;4 and ;3 match the selction qualifier.
After the command only versions ;5 and ;4 contribute to the keep count
and that gives 2 which is what the command specified.
Now, in general:
If the keep-count is initially .LE. the keep-value, PURGE deletes no
versions of the file. If the keep-count is .GT. the keep-value, PURGE
then deletes matching versions in ascending version order (in this
case versions matching /BY_OWNER=[1,1]) until the keep-count is equal
to the keep-value.
That's how it works. That's what I said in my previous post.
AEF
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 13:26:52 -0700
From: Doug Phillips <dphill46@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Message-ID: <1186345612.215103.166810@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 5, 2:10 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 5, 2:20 pm, Doug Phillips <dphil...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 5, 12:33 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 5, 12:46 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > [...]
>
> > > > Apparently the main sticking point is that we had very different ideas
> > > > of what "current version" means. To me, PURGE means, above all else,
> > > > make sure you keep at least the highest-numbered version. When I
>
> > > Sorry, replace "highest-numbered version" with "current version". I
> > > mean here the highest-numbered version of ALL the versions of the file
> > > in question, irrespective of any selection qualifiers that might be
> > > present. This is the raison d'etre for the PURGE command. And this
> > > version, the current version, always contributes to the keep count.
>
> > > > execute or read a file without specifying its version number, it will
> > > > always run the current version. And that's because the default for a
> > > > missing version-number spec is ";" (see my second paragraph way, way
> > > > above). (Does anyone actually have command procedures that run
> > > > explicitly specified intermediate versions?) So "my current version"
> > > > is far more important than any intermediate version. How can an
> > > > intermediate version ever be the current version? Come to think of it,
> > > > I find the term "most-current" to be somewhat nonsensical. You're
> > > > current or you're not.
>
> > > [...]
>
> > I'll reply here rather that waste band-width quoting one of our other
> > incredibly long and winding posts.
>
> > AEF, purge does not work the way you describe.
>
> Yes it does.
>
> > Since you can't look at ITRC, and see Jon Pinkley's reproducer I'll
> > paste it in here (hope you don't mind, Jon). It'll probably wrap, but
> > I can't help that.
>
> > I've commented out the analyze/image (your VAX v6.2 would probably
> > choke on it), removed the double-dates from the directory display, put
> > some "white space" around the purge command, and shortened the exit to
> > just exit. Other than the mod notice, it's as it was.
>
> > He included both creation and modification dates on the create fdl
> > lines so you can "play" with different purge qualifies if you want.
>
> But then why was /date=(c,m) included in the DIR command when the
> example only purges by owner?
>
> > This reproducer purges on by_owner.
>
> > Run it, see what it does. Change the purge to whatever you want, and
> > run it as many times as you want. Based on the results, what does
> > PURGE consider the "current version" to be?
>
> [... DCL code omitted ...]
>
> OK. I copied the code to my system, tidied it up, and ran it.
>
> It works exactly as I have described:
>
> $ directory/own/date pt.tmp;* ! we don't need /DATE here -- I
> forgot to trim it off
>
> Directory DISK$DATA1:[TEST.DCL.PURGE]
>
> PT.TMP;5 1-JAN-2000 01:00:43.50 [SYSTEM]
> PT.TMP;4 2-JAN-2000 01:00:43.39 [1,1]
> PT.TMP;3 3-JAN-2000 01:00:43.28 [1,1]
> PT.TMP;2 4-JAN-2000 01:00:43.17 [SYSTEM]
> PT.TMP;1 5-JAN-2000 01:00:43.07 [SYSTEM]
>
> Total of 5 files.
> $!
> $ purge/keep=2/by_own=[1,1]/log pt.tmp
> %PURGE-I-FILPURG, DISK$DATA1:[TEST.DCL.PURGE]PT.TMP;3 deleted (0
> blocks)
> $!
> $ directory/own/date pt.tmp;*
>
> Directory DISK$DATA1:[TEST.DCL.PURGE]
>
> PT.TMP;5 1-JAN-2000 01:00:43.50 [SYSTEM]
> PT.TMP;4 2-JAN-2000 01:00:43.39 [1,1]
> PT.TMP;2 4-JAN-2000 01:00:43.17 [SYSTEM]
> PT.TMP;1 5-JAN-2000 01:00:43.07 [SYSTEM]
>
> Total of 4 files.
> $_exit:
> $ exit
>
> The current version is PT.TMP;5. As I said last time, the current
> version _always_ contributes to the keep-count. So it kept two
> versions: ;5 and ;4.
>
> Had I omitted the /KEEP=2 or specified /KEEP=1, it would have also
> deleted PT.TMP;4, keeping one version.
>
> The keep-count is the sum of the following two things:
>
> 1. The number 1 for the current version
> 2. The number of old versions that match /BY_OWNER=[1,1]
>
> Nothing else contributes to the keep-count. In this example, the
> initial keep-count (which is a function of the selction qualifiers) is
> 3 which is from ;5, ;4, and ;3 because ;5 is the current version and
> versions ;4 and ;3 match the selction qualifier.
>
> After the command only versions ;5 and ;4 contribute to the keep count
> and that gives 2 which is what the command specified.
>
> Now, in general:
>
> If the keep-count is initially .LE. the keep-value, PURGE deletes no
> versions of the file. If the keep-count is .GT. the keep-value, PURGE
> then deletes matching versions in ascending version order (in this
> case versions matching /BY_OWNER=[1,1]) until the keep-count is equal
> to the keep-value.
>
> That's how it works. That's what I said in my previous post.
>
The bug has been reported, and it is bug. As noted in the ITRC thread,
it worked *as documented* (e.g. only the "specified and qualified"
files were considered --- your "current version" would be ignored if
if was not within those qualified specs) sometime back in the v5.n era
and before, and the bug was introduced sometime after that.
I still don't understand why you think fixing it to consider only the
qualified/specified files would cause you hardship, or why you think
allowing it to consider *any* file that is not one you have specified/
qualified is logical. If you tell it to purge files owned by [1,1] and
keep 2 if there are that many, I don't understand why you think "start
the count with the first file regardless of any thing else" makes
sense... oh well, I've said that before and then you've said what you
said before and we're back to here again. Why bother.
That's about all the more I can say about this.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 17:17:01 -0700
From: AEF <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Easy DCL question PURGE vs. DELETE
Message-ID: <1186359421.756529.173270@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 5, 4:26 pm, Doug Phillips <dphil...@netscape.net> wrote:
> On Aug 5, 2:10 pm, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 5, 2:20 pm, Doug Phillips <dphil...@netscape.net> wrote:
[...]
> > > I'll reply here rather that waste band-width quoting one of our other
> > > incredibly long and winding posts.
>
> > > AEF, purge does not work the way you describe.
>
> > Yes it does.
>
> > > Since you can't look at ITRC, and see Jon Pinkley's reproducer I'll
> > > paste it in here (hope you don't mind, Jon). It'll probably wrap, but
> > > I can't help that.
I can look at it, but it's a struggle to read it. It's so dense. It's
like reading STARTUP.COM. ... OK, I brought up the ITRC thread and
pasted it into to an Outlook email window and it is finally readable.
I printed it and read it. OK. (I wish I had a "universal translator"
program that would automatically do this type of thing for me.)
[...]
> The bug has been reported, and it is bug. As noted in the ITRC thread,
Your opinion. As is, it offers additional functionality. Yet I agreed
that your way is also a reasonable way to do it.
> it worked *as documented* (e.g. only the "specified and qualified"
> files were considered --- your "current version" would be ignored if
> if was not within those qualified specs) sometime back in the v5.n era
> and before, and the bug was introduced sometime after that.
I'm pretty sure that I noticed the current behavior on a VMS V5.x,
probably on a V5.2 system. (When did V5.5 first come out?) Therefore
I'm very surprised by the ITRC example using V5.5-2H4. Looks like
yours. What does it do for /KEEP=1 and without /KEEP? Also, it would
help to know the history of the PURGE code w.r.t. various versions of
VMS.
> I still don't understand why you think fixing it to consider only the
> qualified/specified files would cause you hardship, or why you think
> allowing it to consider *any* file that is not one you have specified/
> qualified is logical.
Because then I can't do Example 2. I might want to delete all old
versions from before a certain date, and I can't do that with your
algorithm without either using /CONFIRM or a very, very lengthy /
EXCLUDE. Here it is again:
Example 2:
ONE.TMP;4 18:00
ONE.TMP;3 17:00
ONE.TMP;2 16:00
TWO.TMP;8 14:00
TWO.TMP;3 13:00
TWO.TMP;1 12:00
THREE.TMP;8 17:00
THREE.TMP;6 15:00
THREE.TMP;1 10:00
Now suppose I want to PURGE this directory but only delete _old_
versions older than 16:30. This would leave the following:
ONE.TMP;4 18:00
ONE.TMP;3 17:00
TWO.TMP;8 14:00
THREE.TMP;8 17:00
Note that TWO.TMP;8 is older than 16:30, but it was saved because I
used PURGE. Had I used DELETE it would be gone! NOW do you understand
what I'm trying to do? I can easily do this with the current version
of PURGE. I can't do this with your version of PURGE unless you add
the possibility of /KEEP=0 which I would consider to be a rather
bizarre option for a PURGE command.
One more variation: I want to save the current versions of ONE.TMP,
TWO.TMP, and THREE.TMP no matter what. That means saving ONE.TMP;4,
TWO.TMP;8, and THREE.TMP;8. Out of the remaining versions, I want to
delete those with a time stamp of less than 16:30. I can't do this
with your algorithm, but I can with mine. I simply would use $ PURGE/
BEFORE=16:30 and it would do what I want. With your algorithm I'd be
stuck with three extra versions I'd have to manually delete.
> If you tell it to purge files owned by [1,1] and
> keep 2 if there are that many, I don't understand why you think "start
> the count with the first file regardless of any thing else" makes
> sense...
Because /KEEP=1 is already tied to the current file. I like it because
it allows me to do Example 2. (See Example 2 above.)
> oh well, I've said that before and then you've said what you
> said before and we're back to here again. Why bother.
Because now we at least are not misunderstanding each other about what
"current version" means. This discussion is plagued with a seemingly
endless number of words that have multiple meanings, the intended one
in any particular case usually not made clear by the context.
> That's about all the more I can say about this.
AEF
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 17:21:38 -0500
From: Michael Anderson <michael.j.anderson@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: gSOAP on OpenVMS? VMS as Web Service *client*
Message-ID: <k4icb3hob0uim7l7ijqpusue7932lmlq58@4ax.com>
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:45:37 -0000, ja <JohnDApps@gmail.com> wrote:
>How many people would be interested in running gSOAP on OpenVMS, Alpha
>or Integrity?
>Of those, how many would want to:
>
>1. use OpenVMS as a Web Service client from any native language
>2. use OpenVMS as a Web Service server from any native language
>3. both of the above
>
>gSOAP is an Open Source initiative. We have ported it to OpenVMS 8.3
>on Alpha and Integrity as a midnight hack (nothing better to do...).
>
>Cheers, John
What do you mean by ported to OpenVMS I have been using gSOAP on
OpenVMS for a couple of years now and it has not required any source
changes to work ? When you compile the stub (stdsoap2.cpp) and your
generated proxy files you need to defines for forcing use of new
iostreams (__USE_STD_IOSTREAM) and use of C++ requires the use the
6.5-046 compiler or later earlier versions can have problems. You will
also want to throw a /WARNINGS=DISABLE=(INTSIGNCHANGE,LONGEXTERN) on
the compile of stdsoap2.cpp to make it shut up about some warnings
that don't matter.
What I have not done is built the two precompilers wsdl2h.exe and
soapcpp2.exe on OpenVMS. I run the PC binaries and upload the proxy
files have you rebuilt the executables on OpenVMS ? If prebuilt
versions the precompilers were built on a suitable old version of
OpenVMS say 7.2 something and placed on the gSOAP web site this would
be of service to people using gSOAP on OpenVMS (alpha version please).
I am currently working on a project talking to WebShpere 6.0 using
gSOAP sending WS-Security OASIS 1.1 envelopes and it works fine.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 15:47:22 -0500
From: Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net>
Subject: Re: July the 4th
Message-ID: <uHqti.21084$lZ7.13999@newsfe20.lga>
On 08/05/07 10:48, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:
> In article <46B3DA00.9BED3F39@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera <djesys.no@spam.comcast.net> writes:
>> AEF wrote:
[snip]
>>
>>> Since the outcome of fighting
>>> them would likely result in a crash landing, killing all, it would be
>>> prudent, BASED ON THE KNOWLEDGE AVAILABLE AT THE TIME, to NOT attack
>>> the hijackers.
>> Oh, yeah right. They'll just land the plane, put everyone off, then take off
>> again to go commit their heinous acts.
>>
> History shows most airplane hijackings did not result in the death of all the
> passengers. If you were one of the few Israelis (or sometimes Americans) on
> a flight containing lots of other nationalities then you had more to fear since
> you might end up at the head of the list being threatened with being shot to
> demonstrate the seriousness of the hijackers demands. But otherwise you were
> probably in more danger after the plane landed ie if the plane was stormed
> in an attempt to rescue you.
> Upto 9/11 plane hijackers didn't tend to be suicidal - just willing to die if
> necessary.
> Although the US government had had reports in the late 90s about the
> possibility of planes being crashed into buildings the public had no such
> knowledge.
That is the crux of the matter.
For quite a few years, Islamists had been blowing themselves up
individually, killing/maiming dozens in restaurants/markets/etc.
It was a foreseeable and obvious escalation to marry suicide bombing
with air hijacking.
--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA
Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 18:16:47 -0700
From: AEF <spamsink2001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: July the 4th
Message-ID: <1186363007.921609.27110@b79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 5, 7:55 pm, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:
> In article <1186334184.382451.138...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >On Aug 2, 7:44 am, davi...@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:
> >> In article <1186010329.495752.168...@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>, AEF <spamsink2...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >> >On Aug 1, 6:15 pm, Dirk Munk <m...@home.nl> wrote:
> >> >> Ron Johnson wrote:
> >> >> > On 07/30/07 02:15, Dirk Munk wrote:
> >> >> >> JF Mezei wrote:
> >> >> >>> AEF wrote:
> >[...]
>
> >> >> By the way, did you know that not even all Jews are treated equal in
> >> >> Israel? There are 'classes' of Jews, it all depends where your family
> >> >> came from. Did they come from some poor underdeveloped country, and they
> >> >> hardly had any education? Then you are a second class Jew I'm afraid.
>
> >> >Never heard of this. Can you elaborate? Just exactly how are they
> >> >treated differently?
>
> >> see for instance
>
> >>http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51a/093.html
>
> >> (This is mostly about the Palestinians but you can ignore that if you wish and
> >> look towards the end about the stratification of Jewish society. Ethiopian and
> >> Yemeni Jews being at the bottom of Jewish society).
>
> >This is one person's view. I find the complaint of disproportionate
> >force ridiculous. Police use disproportinate force all the time. And
> >disproportionate use of force is the norm in the world in all sorts of
> >situations. Only when it is exercised by Israel does anyone complain.
> >And if the P's are so poorly armed compared to the I's, why are they
> >still attacking? Foolish except for generating PR. It would be like a
> >cornered suspect throwing rocks at the police and some bystanders. The
> >police would shoot to kill (or at least to incapacitate) and everyone
> >would be grateful for it.
>
> I have no idea who Phyliss Bennis is and did not bother to read most of the
> article. As I said "This is mostly about the Palestinians but you can ignore
> that if you wish and look towards the end about the stratification of Jewish
> society."
>
> So what do you do - you start arguing about the bit I told you to ignore.
To show that the author is not credible as a neutral source. Besides,
you said I "could" ignore it. Also, you referenced it, other people
may well read the whole thing, so I think I have the right to comment
on the whole thing.
> >The document demonstrates its severe one-sideness with this comment:
>
> >"However, by means of the 1947-48 war, Israel took over even greater
> >expanses of land and forcibly expelled about 750,000 Palestinians.
> >This travesty was the basis for the official founding of the Israeli
> >state in 1948."
>
> >Hello? Israel didn't start this war. And it is by no means a settled
> >fact of history about these expulsions. Could it be that some P's were
> >expelled because they were fighting against the Israelis? And why were
> >so many P's (or Arabs) NOT expelled?
>
> >This makes me doubt everything else in the article. It is only one
> >person's view and it is clearly not a neutral view.
>
> >I find this interesting quote from Wikipedia. Yeah, it's Wikipedia,
> >but it's at least as good at the interview you referecned:
>
> >Israel, the US and the Soviets called the Arab states' entry into
> >Palestine illegal aggression, UN secretary general Trygve Lie
> >characterized it as "the first armed aggression which the world had
> >seen since the end of the [Second World] War." China broadly backed
> >the Arab claims. Both sides increased their manpower over the
> >following months, but the Israeli advantage grew steadily as a result
> >of the progressive mobilization of Israeli society and the influx of
> >an average of 10,300 immigrants each month.
>
> Of course the Arab countries going to war to destroy the newly created Israel
> was an agression - at least as defined by the UN charter (they were invading a
> sovereign nation).
> As far as the Arabs were concerned the very act of creating Israel was an
> agression that was perpetrated by the UN.
Well, if the Wikipedia article is right, even the Soviets (not
normally Jew-friendly, BTW) considered the Arab invasion into the
fledgling Israel to be _illegal_ aggression.
> As I said before how would you react if an outside power such as the UN
> suddenly gave your home to foreign refugees ?
First of all, this is a gross oversimplification of what happened. I
don't know all of what happened, but I know there is a lot more to it
than you mention in your question.
Regardless, I seriously doubt I'd call for an invasion if I were in
that position.
And why didn't the Arabs invade Palestine to capture it back from
Britain?
> David Webb
> Security team leader
> CCSS
> Middlesex University
AEF
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 17:17:14 +1200
From: Malcolm Smeaton <malcolm.smeaton@canterbury.ac.nz>
Subject: LDAP tools for VMS
Message-ID: <6977871@MVB.SAIC.COM>
Hello
Does anyone know where I can get hold of some useful LDAP utilities for
VMS?
For example ldapsearch, ldapadd, ldapmodify, ldapdelete =20
--=20
Regards
Malcolm Smeaton, Server Group Leader
Information and Communication Technology Services
University of Canterbury Te Whare Wananga o Waitaha
Private Bag 4800, Christchurch 8140, New Zealand
Phone: 64-3-364-2333
Fax: 64-3-364-2332
Email: malcolm.smeaton@canterbury.ac.nz
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 13:06:04 -0500
From: Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Stay on Alpha forever?
Message-ID: <gkoti.1635$Zk5.379@newsfe23.lga>
On 08/05/07 12:30, Michael Moroney wrote:
> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:
>
>> david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:
>>> Unfortunately Galaxy support wasn't ported to Itanium for superdomes.
>
>
>> Is there some hard partitioning
>> where VMS can exist as totally separate instances that are totally
>> unaware of each other ?
>
>> Is there dynamic reallocation of CPU capabilities (to give one instance
>> more power when needed ?) or does that need a reboot ?
>
> That's Galaxy, which David mentioned doesn't exist yet (ever?) for
> Itanic.
You've GOT to be kidding, right? What serious Enterprise platform
doesn't have dynamic reallocation?
> VMS/Galaxy may require all VMS instances be part of the same cluster
> (which excludes the 'totally unaware' part), I don't remember.
--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA
Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 22:53:18 +0000 (UTC)
From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Stay on Alpha forever?
Message-ID: <f95kcu$fj2$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>
In article <be22c$46b604bd$cef8887a$7263@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:
>david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:
>> Unfortunately Galaxy support wasn't ported to Itanium for superdomes.
>
>
>So, what sort of functionality exists for VMS on Superdomes ? Can it
>have just one instance using all CPUs ? Is there some hard partitioning
>where VMS can exist as totally separate instances that are totally
>unaware of each other ?
>
>Is there dynamic reallocation of CPU capabilities (to give one instance
>more power when needed ?) or does that need a reboot ?
My understanding is that hard partitioning works. But no I don't think you can
dynamically reallocate CPUs. I'm not sure if it is available yet but I believe
the replacement (?) for Galaxy functionality was to be able to run VMS as
multiple virtual OS instances on top of HP-UX.
David Webb
Security team leader
CCSS
Middlesex University
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 00:43:11 +0000
From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Stay on Alpha forever?
Message-ID: <C72D63EB292C9E49AED23F705C61957BDD0910B4EB@G1W0487.americas.hpqcorp.net>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk [mailto:david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk]
> Sent: August 5, 2007 6:53 PM
> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
> Subject: Re: Stay on Alpha forever?
>
> In article <be22c$46b604bd$cef8887a$7263@TEKSAVVY.COM>, JF Mezei
> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> writes:
> >david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:
> >> Unfortunately Galaxy support wasn't ported to Itanium for
> superdomes.
> >
> >
> >So, what sort of functionality exists for VMS on Superdomes ? Can it
> >have just one instance using all CPUs ? Is there some hard
> partitioning
> >where VMS can exist as totally separate instances that are totally
> >unaware of each other ?
> >
> >Is there dynamic reallocation of CPU capabilities (to give one
> instance
> >more power when needed ?) or does that need a reboot ?
>
> My understanding is that hard partitioning works. But no I don't think
> you can
> dynamically reallocate CPUs. I'm not sure if it is available yet but I
> believe
> the replacement (?) for Galaxy functionality was to be able to run VMS
> as
> multiple virtual OS instances on top of HP-UX.
>
>
> David Webb
> Security team leader
> CCSS
> Middlesex University
See the following OpenVMS virtualization whitepaper -
http://h71028.www7.hp.com/ERC/downloads/4AA0-5801ENW.pdf
Regards
Kerry Main
Senior Consultant
HP Services Canada
Voice: 613-592-4660
Fax: 613-591-4477
kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom
(remove the DOT's and AT)
OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 20:44:11 GMT
From: andekl_no@saaf_spam.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Anders_Ekl=F6f?=)
Subject: Re: What does GEM mean?
Message-ID: <1i2e9ke.1snhrs71khq0nlN%andekl_no@saaf_spam.se>
Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:
> In article <I6rqi.10497$lZ7.4949@newsfe20.lga>, Ron Johnson
> <ron.l.johnson@cox.net> writes:
> >
> > How can you just drop a letter from the alphabet?
> >
> > What happens to all the books/articles/letters/etc written prior to
> > when the letter was dropped?
>
> A small problem for the germans. They completely changed alphabets,
> or at leat what we might now call the font, and some youth refuse
> to learn the old.
>
I'm confused. How did this thread start?
In my universe, GEM means German Equatorial Mount.
BTW - changing font and changing alphabet are tho very different
animals. And the old German print fonts look very much like -
Olde English...
--
I recommend Macs to my friends, and Windows machines
to those whom I don't mind billing by the hour
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 16:01:55 -0500
From: Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net>
Subject: Re: What does GEM mean?
Message-ID: <8Vqti.21085$lZ7.5411@newsfe20.lga>
On 08/05/07 15:44, Anders Eklöf wrote:
> Bob Koehler <koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org> wrote:
>
>> In article <I6rqi.10497$lZ7.4949@newsfe20.lga>, Ron Johnson
>> <ron.l.johnson@cox.net> writes:
>>> How can you just drop a letter from the alphabet?
>>>
>>> What happens to all the books/articles/letters/etc written prior to
>>> when the letter was dropped?
>> A small problem for the germans. They completely changed alphabets,
>> or at leat what we might now call the font, and some youth refuse
>> to learn the old.
>>
>
> I'm confused. How did this thread start?
> In my universe, GEM means German Equatorial Mount.
>
> BTW - changing font and changing alphabet are tho very different
> animals. And the old German print fonts look very much like -
> Olde English...
A compiler technology developed by DEC.
--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA
Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 13:04:06 -0500
From: Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net>
Subject: Re: YAEQ: Yet Another Editor Question
Message-ID: <rioti.1633$Zk5.1272@newsfe23.lga>
On 08/05/07 12:11, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 08/05/07 10:13, Paul Raulerson wrote:
>> How does one go about stringing multiple editor commands together and
>> binding them to say, a function key.
>>
>> I would like to modify the behavior of the exit key so that it only exists
>> the current buffer displayed on the screen, while still asking to save it if
>> necessary before dropping it.
Use this instead:
<DO> D B
That's short for DROP BUFFER. (Case-insensitive, of course.) It
then prompts you to save the buffer or delete it.
> I admit, being an ISPF/XEDIT bigot here, I
>> routinely have two, three, or more files open in the same editor session and
>> cut and paste between them.
Whenever you have such thoughts, repeat the mantra:
DEC programmers weren't stupid. They made a powerful editor.
I just don't know all the secrets.
>> But my fingers forget what my brain tells 'em, and I keep finding myself
>> closing out an entire editing session, instead of just the one file I am
>> interested in closing. :)
>>
>> Also, it would be nice to be able to hit NEW and have it ask for a file, it
>> currently says it does not take any arguments.
<DO> GET filespec
> You've got to first tell us which editor you are using.
>
--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA
Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 13:21:20 -0500
From: "Paul Raulerson" <paul@raulersons.com>
Subject: RE: YAEQ: Yet Another Editor Question
Message-ID: <000101c7d78d$6c792df0$456b89d0$@com>
>
> Use this instead:
> <DO> D B
>
> That's short for DROP BUFFER. (Case-insensitive, of course.) It
> then prompts you to save the buffer or delete it.
>
I don't seem to have a "DROP BUFFER" command here; just a "DELETE BUFFER",
which prompts
for the buffer name type of thing. What I really want is what EXIT does, but
just limited
to a single buffer. :)
> >> Also, it would be nice to be able to hit NEW and have it ask for a
> file, it
> >> currently says it does not take any arguments.
>
> <DO> GET filespec
>
That's good! I've been doing a new than a GET <filespec> after the buffer is
created.
This is much simpler.
-Paul
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 13:36:36 -0500
From: Ron Johnson <ron.l.johnson@cox.net>
Subject: Re: YAEQ: Yet Another Editor Question
Message-ID: <VMoti.174251$wG2.152102@newsfe17.lga>
On 08/05/07 13:21, Paul Raulerson wrote:
>> Use this instead:
>> <DO> D B
>>
>> That's short for DROP BUFFER. (Case-insensitive, of course.) It
>> then prompts you to save the buffer or delete it.
>>
> I don't seem to have a "DROP BUFFER" command here; just a "DELETE BUFFER",
> which prompts
Ah, sorry. I just type "<do> D B", and forgot that it's DELETE
instead of DROP.
> for the buffer name type of thing. What I really want is what EXIT does, but
> just limited
> to a single buffer. :)
True. "DELETE BUFFER CURRENT" would be helpful, I guess, but when
it prompts me, I just copy-and-paste the buffer name.
The SecureCRT terminal emulator makes that handy because it does
X-Windows-style copy-on-select.
>>>> Also, it would be nice to be able to hit NEW and have it ask for a
>> file, it
>>>> currently says it does not take any arguments.
>> <DO> GET filespec
>>
>
> That's good! I've been doing a new than a GET <filespec> after the buffer is
> created.
> This is much simpler.
>
> -Paul
>
>
>
--
Ron Johnson, Jr.
Jefferson LA USA
Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 20:00:39 -0500
From: "Paul Raulerson" <paul@raulersons.com>
Subject: RE: YAEQ: Yet Another Editor Question
Message-ID: <000001c7d7c5$34daeb80$9e90c280$@com>
Wow - been looking at this for a few hours and it has as many extensions and
options and such as does XEdit! Unfortunately, the programming language
isn't Rexx, so it's going to be a project and a half to come up with those
little changes. I guess they will have to wait for a while, but thanks! At
least I have a clue how to do them now.
-Paul
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca]
> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 12:08 PM
> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com
> Subject: Re: YAEQ: Yet Another Editor Question
>
> Paul Raulerson wrote:
> > How does one go about stringing multiple editor commands together and
> > binding them to say, a function key.
>
> DIR SYS$EXAMPLES:*.TPU
>
> This will give you tons of examples.
>
> You create your TPU commands, put them in a file such as
> sys$login:TPU$COMMAND.TPU and then in your login.com,
> DEFINE TPU$COMMAND SYS$LOGIN:TPU$COMMAND.TPU
>
> Whenever you start the editors, those commands gets executed.
>
> example:
> define_key (eve$$kt_return + "eve_two_windows", KP2,
> "Split window");
>
>
> Now, you can create your own functions, and instead of
> "eve_two_windows", call your own function that does multiple things to
> your liking.
>
>
> For a one shot deal while editing:
>
> [DO] LEARN then do your key sequences, press <ctrl-R> and then press
> the key you want defined. Then, whenever you press that key, the key
> sequence gets done again. This is extremely powerful.
------------------------------
End of INFO-VAX 2007.427
************************