INFO-VAX Fri, 11 May 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 257 Contents: Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Cheap Network configurable QUIET tabletop RAID array Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Re: Itanic multi-core vs. multi-CPU SMP Re: PID for detached process. Re: PID for detached process. Re: PID for detached process. Re: Semi-OT: Challenge: Charon-AXP + Minimal WhineBloze Re: Semi-OT: Challenge: Charon-AXP + Minimal WhineBloze Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) RE: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Re: SYSMAN problem Re: SYSMAN problem ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 21:43:34 -0500 From: Dan Foster Subject: Re: A jihad on the Hobbyist programme ? Message-ID: In article <46422ca9$0$16953$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl>, Wilm Boerhout wrote: > on 9-5-2007 21:54 twnews@kittles.com wrote... > >> My question is does Personal Alpha work well? It does not need to be >> fast, but it does need to run consistently without major problems. I >> like the idea of VMS at home to play with, but I am not looking for a >> second job supporting a not ready for prime time emulator. Any >> testimonials or personal experiences running VMS on Personal Alpha on >> Windows? > > Yes. I have been using it for personal research and general > programming since it first came out. It has never once failed me. As > retold somewhere in this newsgroup, I built all SIMH emulators on > Personal Alpha, and even got SIMH PDP-11 with RSTS/E to run on top of > it. It's reliable, and as you say easy to set up and use. > > For the purpose you mention, I'd say it is extremely well suited. Was that the 96 MB version (the 'Personal Alpha' product) you've been using for your personal research and general programming tasks? Did you have to disable the XFC cache on recent OpenVMS/Alpha versions to get memory back to use for compiles and such? -Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 18:56:30 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: <4643B12E.A2C370A8@spam.comcast.net> "David Turner, Island Computers" wrote: > > Curious... > Even HP tells me they are quiet. > I can't believe everyone has stopped buying Alpha systems just because of > discontinuation Well, it's not like this caught anyone off-guard. Let's face it - The Alphacide was nigh onto 6 years ago! Folks have had plenty of time to plan for it. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 19:06:13 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Anyone know why the Alpha market is so so quiet? Message-ID: <4643B375.78A688BA@spam.comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > [snip] > HP's IDC study that says that HP will lose 30% of its installed > enterprise base due to this unwated IA64 migration must have been > factored in and HP must have accepted that fact and will probably have > large parties if in the end, it will have only lost 25% of its installed > base. However, given the loss of the healthcare sector, that number could swing upward by a good margin, perhaps closer to 50% to 60%. ...and based on the support calls my partner has suffered through in the past two days*, it could even go higher - perhaps 70% to 80% - as frustrated VMS techies abandon support calls, cast their telephones out of high-rise office building plate glass windows, then themselves dash shrieking down the stairs, burst out the door (through the glass!) and run screaming into the night - never to be seen or heard from again! *: Did you know that: 1. WEBES is not a supported product? 2. No Alpha system can be connected to more than 256 disk volumes? My partner has been told these in the course of two support calls, one yesterday (disk / wwidmgr) and one today (WEBES). -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 15:29:51 -0400 From: "David Turner, Island Computers" Subject: Cheap Network configurable QUIET tabletop RAID array Message-ID: We have these in stock We can provide them for $4195 with 2.5TB of storage. See link below Specs http://www.islandco.com/ICDSP5U320.html To purchase https://icusc.com/NOV21_WEBSTORE_more.asp?Page=1&search_fd0=243 -- David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404 T: 877-6364332 x201 Intl: 001 912 447 6622 E: dturner@islandco.com F: 912 201 0402 W: http://www.islandco.com ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 18:35:42 -0700 From: David B Sneddon Subject: Re: creating IA64 PAKs on Alpha Message-ID: <1178847342.370776.178480@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> On May 10, 11:11 pm, "Tom Linden" wrote: > > So how do you do it with existing pakgen? > You get a copy of the CLD from an IA64 box and use that one. The problem is NOT the PAK but the broken CLD. Dave ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 17:58:25 GMT From: Doc Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris Message-ID: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote in news:0Je1ghw6Zulr@eisner.encompasserve.org: > Other editors I've just seen cited in this thread are much more > friendly than vi, but less powerfull. It's amaizing what the > uneducated think is good stuff. Show me an editor that can do all TPU does *and* has syntax highlighting then I might change. In the meantime I'll stick to what I know, which is TPU and a Windows editor called PFE32 which is useful for small (<5k lines) files. You use a VMS system as a server, and if you have folks that prefer Unix or Windows on their desk you mount the code checkout area with Samba or NFS. They have the tools they're most productive with, and your system manager stays happy because the end product runs on VMS and doesn't need looked at too often. Doc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 19:17:11 -0400 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) Message-ID: <46439b94$0$21364$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> "Richard Maher" wrote in message news:f1tt58$26a$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au... > Hi Neil, > [...snip...] > > Develop on Solaris or Windows - Deploy on VMS. Hell, I've been using the > command line on Windows to Javac an Jar an Applet and I can certainly > understand where the need for these IDEs comes from, but instead of trying > to forge some cheap plastic replica on VMS I'd prefer to see VMS 3GL > language semantic tags incorporated into some lovely multi-colored token > spotting editor on Windows. But then *I* thought the "GoTo line" > functionality in NotePad was a God-send and I have several JavaScript/HTML > pages over 1000 lines that I have debugged without a debugger :-( I sure > hope FireBug's good! I call it "resistance-traning", imagine how > productive > I'd be with an IDE :-) > What a breath of fresh air. I'm glad there are other agnostic developers in this news group. I'll always prefer to develop on OpenVMS for OpenVMS but I also have a family that depends on my efforts to bring home the bacon which means working on Solaris, Windows, or whatever. (in this area of Waterloo there is a ton of Solaris, especially at RIM and Raytheon etc.) Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/ -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 00:08:59 GMT From: VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) Message-ID: <00A676C7.82721C8B@SendSpamHere.ORG> In article <4643b24b$0$90274$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: > > >Martin Krischik wrote: >> http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm > >I know that one reader here will think one language is >missing ... There's no Macro32! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 20:01:19 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Message-ID: <4643b24b$0$90274$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Martin Krischik wrote: > http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm I know that one reader here will think one language is missing ... Arne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 20:05:59 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Message-ID: <4643b364$0$90263$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Richard Maher wrote: >> PS: Ruby for VMS is quite nice :-). > > And I assume we also have RoR, or is that still in perennial catchup phase? RoR is a framework not a language. > I don't understand Ruby It is just yet another language in the family of dynamicly typed languages. Very "hot". Not quite as much used. > Anyway, I'm certainly looking forward to .NET for VMS, and am confident that > there's no shortage of blood sucking leaches in Nashua (or Bombay?) just > waiting to start invoicing for that port. They could port Mono to VMS. But I don't think there would be enough demand. Most interested in that type of language would have gone the Java direction already. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 20:10:17 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Message-ID: <4643b466$0$90272$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> Richard Maher wrote: > There's a guy I know in London that still keeps copying stuff to LSE on VMS > 'cos he can't bring himself to use (vi?) on Unix. Personally, I think it > would be great if "young" developers used a PC or Unix-based IDE and then > deployed on VMS! Digital doesn't have to waste time and effort trying to > develop a genre of software that they're demonstrably no good at, and VMS > get's to host the final product (or at least some part of it). I call that a > win-win situation. Actually I think VMS development tools were market leading in functionality at one point in time. Compare VMS debugger, EVE and CMS with what was available on other platforms back in the 1980's. Huge lead for VMS. > Stop apologising! There is nothing wrong with your software! Who (apart from > those with their snouts in the Java/SDK/JVM/WSIT trough) say you should be > using OO on VMS and that you should change (or at least conceal) you rich > heritage of 3GL based development? Java is a 3GL. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 19:11:31 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Message-ID: <4643B4B3.CCA286BB@spam.comcast.net> "Main, Kerry" wrote: > [snip] > And one wonders where all of the scalability and security issues are > coming from these days? From my perspective re: VMS: Security has mostly to do with audit and regulatory compliance. Scalability has mostly to do with SuperDome's internal architecture. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 20:13:58 -0400 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Message-ID: <4643b541$0$90272$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: > In article <4643b24b$0$90274$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: >> Martin Krischik wrote: >>> http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm >> I know that one reader here will think one language is >> missing ... > > There's no Macro32! Or Bliss. But it was Tom Linden I was thinking about and even though he probably like both languages, then there is another one he will miss more on the list. Arne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 21:38:15 -0500 From: Hunter Goatley Subject: Re: Digital *is* a Software Company? (Was Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE)) IDE)) Message-ID: Arne Vajhøj wrote: > VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG wrote: >> In article <4643b24b$0$90274$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, >> =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?= writes: >>> Martin Krischik wrote: >>>> http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm >>> I know that one reader here will think one language is >>> missing ... >> >> There's no Macro32! > > Or Bliss. > BLISS is the one I thought of first. ;-) -- Hunter ------ Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ PreciseMail Anti-Spam Gateway for OpenVMS, Tru64, Solaris, & Linux goathunter@goatley.com http://www.goatley.com/hunter/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 14:14:42 -0400 From: John Reagan Subject: Re: Itanic multi-core vs. multi-CPU SMP Message-ID: Rich Jordan wrote: > Does VMS on a current itanic box with multicore CPUs treat those cores > as equivalent to separate CPUs using the normal SMP support? Not > asking about licensing (which is well documented as requiring per-core > licenses), but actual VMS operation on such a box. > > If you have a dual processor dual core itanic and set up > hyperthreading, are the 'virtual' CPUs then treated as additional SMP > CPUs also? > > Thanks. I'm just trying to get a feel for VMS specific operations on > these newer boxes compared to more traditional multi-CPU units, and so > far the docs don't have much to say (which to me implies it really is > treated as normal SMP, which is fine). > > Rich > Yes and yes. The scheduler will pick idle CPUs over idle cores over idle threads I believe. -- John Reagan OpenVMS Pascal/Macro-32/COBOL Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: 10 May 2007 16:08:30 -0500 From: Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: In article , briggs@encompasserve.org writes: > In article , Kilgallen@SpamCop.net (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >> Personally I would prefer starlet definitions that create new types, >> but once the PID is returned PID_TYPE'image ( PID_VALUE ) is not any >> harder than UNSIGNED_LONGWORD'image ( PID_VALUE ). > > Unfortunately, using PID_TYPE'image(PID_VALUE) as the value in the > parameter to $ STOP /ID=xxx won't work for PID's higher than 00000009 We were talking about the general nature of subtypes vs types, nothing to do with the usefulness of a string representation of a PID for stopping processes. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 18:50:47 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: <4643AFD7.81F4516E@spam.comcast.net> briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: > > In article <46410E0D.A7352D14@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > > briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: > >> You can capture it from the status line returned by the RUN command. > >> It's ugly as sin, but here's a proof of concept: > >> > >> $ define sys$output gork.dat > >> $ run sys$system:loginout.exe - > [... ugliness snipped ...] > > > Here's another approach to try... > > > > $ pipe - > > I had tried that at first but ran into command element length restrictions. Some of that can actually be worked around with symbol substitution and judicious use of logical names. DCL uses a larger internal buffer to hold the command line result after symbol substitution. That might help some. Also, the long filespec.'s could be DEFINEd or ASSIGNed to LNMs, That would shorten it rather a good bit. The F$EXTRACT() could also be done outside of the PIPEline expression to save characters. The two together should bring it in under the wire. > > run sys$system:loginout.exe - > > /detach - > > /input=eisner$dra3:[decuserve_user.briggs]nothing.com - > > /output=eisner$dra3:[decuserve_user.briggs]nothing.log | - > > @tee sys$command | - > > (read sys$pipe status_line ; - > > pid = f$extract ( f$length(status_line)-8, 8, status_line) ; - > > def/job subpid &pid) > > $ pid = f$trnlnm( subpid ) > > $ deas/job subpid > > The bit with tee is a nice touch. Your earlier post included the equivalent, so I included it here. > > See HELP PIPE Description Pipelines_and_TEEs Using_TEEs_and_SYS$PIPE for an > > example of a TEE.COM. This may only work on V7.3-2 and later due to the command > > line length. > > Ahh. That explains it. Eisner is still on 7.2 Try these tricks and see if that solves the issue. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 18:54:47 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: PID for detached process. Message-ID: <4643B0C7.446148A3@spam.comcast.net> briggs@encompasserve.org wrote: > [snip] > Ahh. That explains it. Eisner is still on 7.2 Also, PIPE on V7.2 is a bit broken... -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 19:09:15 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Semi-OT: Challenge: Charon-AXP + Minimal WhineBloze Message-ID: <4643B42B.E23A6F63@spam.comcast.net> Wilm Boerhout wrote: > > on 9-5-2007 1:38 David J Dachtera wrote... > > Since the question of a "live CD" has already been raised, perhaps this might be > > redundant. > > > > Still, I have to believe that it should be possible to figure out how to load > > just enough of WhineBloze to let Charon-AXP on x86 look like the big Alpha (ES45 > > and later, GS1280, etc.) console firmware does before SRM gets control. > > > > Boot from hard disk, CD, USB disk*, ... > > > > *: I have one of these that I can put any size SD card in. A 2GB SD card is > > roughly half the (data) size of a DVD. > > > Emulators International is working on signature files (4000, ES45...) > for CHARON-AXP. Stripping Windows for loading CHARON-VAX is already well > described (what services not to run etc.). Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of starting with the install environment, and building from there adding only what is needed to run Charon-AXP - should probably total up to less than 50MB on disk, certainly no more than 100MB. See the minicab's on the W/9x install CDs for an example. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 22:18:16 -0400 From: Dave Froble Subject: Re: Semi-OT: Challenge: Charon-AXP + Minimal WhineBloze Message-ID: Wilm Boerhout wrote: > on 9-5-2007 1:38 David J Dachtera wrote... >> Since the question of a "live CD" has already been raised, perhaps >> this might be >> redundant. >> >> Still, I have to believe that it should be possible to figure out how >> to load >> just enough of WhineBloze to let Charon-AXP on x86 look like the big >> Alpha (ES45 >> and later, GS1280, etc.) console firmware does before SRM gets control. >> >> Boot from hard disk, CD, USB disk*, ... >> >> *: I have one of these that I can put any size SD card in. A 2GB SD >> card is >> roughly half the (data) size of a DVD. >> > Emulators International is working on signature files (4000, ES45...) > for CHARON-AXP. Stripping Windows for loading CHARON-VAX is already well > described (what services not to run etc.). I'm curious, where can this information be found? -- David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com DFE Ultralights, Inc. 170 Grimplin Road Vanderbilt, PA 15486 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 15:32:38 -0400 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: <281b$46437351$cef89f6b$19010@TEKSAVVY.COM-Free> Bill Gunshannon wrote: > In article , > koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) writes: >> In article <5aduevF2o7hpdU1@mid.individual.net>, bill@cs.uofs.edu >> (Bill Gunshannon) writes: >>> >>> I realize that, but the question was raised here and I am fairly >>> certain the concern was about the effects of eliminating what may >>> still be a significant number of VMS systems. >> >> Yeah, I know, when people say VAX they often mean VMS, but they >> are not the same and I think this is an appropriate place not to >> let them get away with it. > > I don't confuse the two and I don;t think the original poster did. I > think many people see VAX as still a mjor contributor to the nuimber > of extant VMS systems and if these systems were suddenly somehow made > to go away it would be a serious blow to VMS's future. Probably about 0.25 Gorhams I should think (factored for decay, rot, and other neglect by ComHPaQ). -- OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 15:43:10 -0400 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: <357dd$4643772f$cef89f6b$20019@TEKSAVVY.COM-Free> Bob Koehler wrote: > In article <4640deea$0$16306$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, "Neil > Rieck" writes: >> >> "Bob Koehler" wrote in >> message news:nUKRx35Zd0e5@eisner.encompasserve.org... >>> In article <463fbcfb$0$16288$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, "Neil >>> Rieck" writes: >>> >>> Sun doesn't do Windows. That's probably good. They only do UNIX. >>> That's bad. >>> >> >> I disagree. Solaris is a very popular OS used by industry throughout >> North America as well as the world. Also, some Sun software (like >> Java) works on many platforms including WIndows. So Sun does not >> just "do unix". > > The popularity of Solaris doesn't change the fact that when it > comes to making and selling an OS, Sun is a one-tune shop. Yes, that's true. But they also promote that tune wherever and whenever possible. I have a data warehouse that's currently under design. In years gone by I could have used Sybase IQ on VMS (yes it was supported and sold at one point). Today my choice for Sybase IQ is Solaris (maybe others - I have not checked). Is it that VMS customers don't need data warehouses - not so. Is it that VMS customers prefer Oracle - not necessarily. Is it that VMS customers told Sybase to go F! themselves - perhaps. But most likely, Sybase is run by smarter people than HP management (senior VMS mgmt. and upwards) and they read the Digital/Compaq/HP VMS tea leaves long ago. -- OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 16:18:23 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: <8f723$46437e20$cef8887a$12085@TEKSAVVY.COM> John Smith wrote: > Probably about 0.25 Gorhams I should think (factored for decay, rot, and > other neglect by ComHPaQ). BTW, in case you didn't know, Mr Gorham is no longer with HP, he left apparently on his own to greener pastures. Ann McQuaid is now the VMS manager (or whatever the title of the top VMS-specific person is). Also, Mr Marcello is also no longer with HP. Mr Hurd cleaned up many management positions and Marcello was part of the cleanup. At the february decus meeting in Toronto, Sue made the point of saying that VMS was under new management (refering to the new guy who took over from marcello, and this new guy is Ann McQuaid's boss). And this was said in a very positive way. Since then, however, the news haven't been that great. So I am not sure if the new management really intend to fight to give VMS a chance. Pushing Cerner to HP-UX is about the same magnitude as Palmer's "affinity" programme, especially since medical was one of VMS's last true niches. (I say this since you (Mr "Smith") have been away for some time.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 21:01:44 -0400 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: <4643C078.3000305@comcast.net> John Smith wrote: > Bob Koehler wrote: > >>In article <4640deea$0$16306$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, "Neil >>Rieck" writes: >> >>>"Bob Koehler" wrote in >>>message news:nUKRx35Zd0e5@eisner.encompasserve.org... >>> >>>>In article <463fbcfb$0$16288$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, "Neil >>>>Rieck" writes: >>>> >>>> Sun doesn't do Windows. That's probably good. They only do UNIX. >>>> That's bad. >>>> >>> >>>I disagree. Solaris is a very popular OS used by industry throughout >>>North America as well as the world. Also, some Sun software (like >>>Java) works on many platforms including WIndows. So Sun does not >>>just "do unix". >> >> The popularity of Solaris doesn't change the fact that when it >> comes to making and selling an OS, Sun is a one-tune shop. > > > Yes, that's true. But they also promote that tune wherever and whenever > possible. > > I have a data warehouse that's currently under design. In years gone by I > could have used Sybase IQ on VMS (yes it was supported and sold at one > point). Today my choice for Sybase IQ is Solaris (maybe others - I have not > checked). > > Is it that VMS customers don't need data warehouses - not so. > > Is it that VMS customers prefer Oracle - not necessarily. > > Is it that VMS customers told Sybase to go F! themselves - perhaps. > > But most likely, Sybase is run by smarter people than HP management (senior > VMS mgmt. and upwards) and they read the Digital/Compaq/HP VMS tea leaves > long ago. > > -- > OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV > base. > > Sybase saw the handwriting on the wall many years ago and dropped support for VMS. ISTR that 31-DEC-2001 was the last supported date. Ten or fifteen years ago there was a book about three inches thick that listed available applications for VMS. There were a few thousand of them. AFAIK, the book is no longer published. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 22:51:41 -0400 From: "Main, Kerry" Subject: RE: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: Stephen Hoffman [mailto:Hoff@HoffmanLabs-RemoveThis-.Org] > Sent: May 9, 2007 2:01 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: Re: Sun Studio 11 (Solaris IDE) >=20 [snip...] >=20 > As various folks (and probably Kerry most recently) have commented, > the hardware and software acquisition costs often end up being > noise-level stuff over the lifetime of the product or process or > development effort. If you buy cheap up front, make sure you don't > end > up paying more over the lifetime of the product or the deployment, in > terms of services, hassles, support, upgrades, purchasing add-on tools > that are standard on other boxes, etc. ROI. >=20 >=20 > -- > www.HoffmanLabs.com > Services for OpenVMS Something else to consider .. remember about 3-5 years ago when everyone was touting the latest HW spec's and TPC's and which HW platform was the fastest and based on this was the one people should buy? Fast forward to today and look at those servers now - the average Wintel/Linux server in peak times is running about 10-20% busy and UNIX server is about 15-30% busy in peak times.=20 So, in retrospect, while everyone always makes a big deal out of the latest server performance numbers (and yes there are some environments which do need high performance servers), until companies get out of the one app, one server model, the performance numbers of HW servers are really not that much of a factor. Regards Kerry Main Senior Consultant HP Services Canada Voice: 613-592-4660 Fax: 613-591-4477 kerryDOTmainAThpDOTcom (remove the DOT's and AT)=20 OpenVMS - the secure, multi-site OS that just works. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 18:43:21 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: SYSMAN problem Message-ID: <4643AE19.3391E9BF@spam.comcast.net> Phillip Helbig---remove CLOTHES to reply wrote: > > In article <46410A40.C00DC096@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera > writes: > > > > > $ TYPE A::NL: > > > > > > > > ....and see if it returns a similar result. If so, troubleshoot DECnet. > > > > > > No DECnet running, all nodes in the same cluster. > > > > ??? > > > > That makes the message all the more puzzling. > > Except for PHONE between nodes, I don't think one needs DECnet at all > within a cluster. I am familiar with the message if the SMI server is > not running on the target node, but that is not the case. > > This came about as a result of a dirty reboot caused by spontaneous > reboots of a VAX in the cluster, which put an important disk into mount > verification. As a result, the other nodes couldn't be shut down > cleanly. > > I'll probably combine a needed reboot for some ALPHA patches with a > cluster reboot, so the problem should go away after that. Indeed - VMS clusters do not depend on DECnet at all. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 23:29:04 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: SYSMAN problem Message-ID: <31781$4643e312$cef8887a$29845@TEKSAVVY.COM> David J Dachtera wrote: > Indeed - VMS clusters do not depend on DECnet at all. The utility that used to work (MON CLUSTER) did rely on DECNET (although it can now be set to rely on TCPIP). MAIL still relies on DECNET between nodes that do not share system disk and without that logical that tells mail de deliver locally for cluster nodes. And there are instances of SYSMAN using DECNET. ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.257 ************************