INFO-VAX Thu, 26 Apr 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 227 Contents: Re: Also not coming soon to a VMS system near you Re: C++ Garbage Collector on VMS? Re: C++ Garbage Collector on VMS? Re: CLD vs. Autamatic Foreign Command; or what the heck do I use? Re: CLD vs. Autamatic Foreign Command; or what the heck do I use? Re: DNS Attacks Re: DNS Attacks dtlogin and $HOME/.dtsession equivalents? Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Re: IT'S THAT TIME AGAIN - FREE DS10L OFFER Re: Neocons destroying America Re: Neocons destroying America Neocons destroying America (was: Democrats destroying America) Re: New DCL qualifier suggestion. Re: New DCL qualifier suggestion. Re: New DCL qualifier suggestion. Re: New DCL qualifier suggestion. Re: New DCL qualifier suggestion. OpenVMS Boot Camp Confusion OT: EHR, etc. Re: SET Security question Set terminal/inquire in SYLOGIN Re: Set terminal/inquire in SYLOGIN Re: Set terminal/inquire in SYLOGIN Re: Set terminal/inquire in SYLOGIN Re: Set terminal/inquire in SYLOGIN Re: Set terminal/inquire in SYLOGIN Re: Set terminal/inquire in SYLOGIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:37:24 -0400 From: "John Smith" Subject: Re: Also not coming soon to a VMS system near you Message-ID: <5f63e$462fbc02$cef88122$7746@TEKSAVVY.COM-Free> Dave Weatherall wrote: > On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:03:39 UTC, JF Mezei > wrote: > >> John Smith wrote: >>>> OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling >>>> ISV base. >> >> >> Hey Mr "John Smith"... welcome back ! >> >> And I see we use the same ISP :-) > > Ah but is it the same one :) > > Welcome back John. Was wondering about you just the other week. Thank you for the thought. Yes, it's the same "John Smith". Who else would ask how many Gorhams the installed VMS base is down to now? Maybe HP should contract with Hoff to port VMS to a real platform. At least that way they could have a chance at making some serious money from it. -- OpenVMS - The never-advertised operating system with the dwindling ISV base. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:01:21 GMT From: "Michael D. Ober" Subject: Re: C++ Garbage Collector on VMS? Message-ID: <55RXh.3793$Ut6.740@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net> "Tom Linden" wrote in message news:op.tq6qx9h3tte90l@hyrrokkin... > On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:20:26 -0700, Michael D. Ober > wrote: > >> >> "JF Mezei" wrote in message >> news:b763c$46251937$cef8887a$8658@TEKSAVVY.COM... >>>>> I have to ask: Why does a programming language (other than an >>>>> interpretive environment) need a "garbage collector"??!! >>> >>> >>> Not to get into a religious debate, but don't languages that do lots of >>> stuff behind the scenes "for you" tend to result in sloppy programming >>> because programmers lose some discipline ? >>> >>> To me, it seems essential that any routine that allocates memory for a >>> structure should have an accompanying one to deallocate that structure >>> (and any substructures attached to it). >>> >>> >> >> Actually, no. Many times you allocate memory but don't really know when >> the >> last reference to it is released. This happens when a routine allocates >> memory and then returns that memory as part of it's result. > > Why can't the caller free the memory? What happens when the caller allocates memory for a node in a b-tree and then adds the node to the b-tree? This is a very, very simple example of why memory management without a garbage collector is prone to leaks and dangling pointers. Mike. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:28:55 -0700 From: "Tom Linden" Subject: Re: C++ Garbage Collector on VMS? Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:01:21 -0700, Michael D. Ober wrote: > > "Tom Linden" wrote in message > news:op.tq6qx9h3tte90l@hyrrokkin... >> On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:20:26 -0700, Michael D. Ober >> wrote: >> >>> >>> "JF Mezei" wrote in message >>> news:b763c$46251937$cef8887a$8658@TEKSAVVY.COM... >>>>>> I have to ask: Why does a programming language (other than an >>>>>> interpretive environment) need a "garbage collector"??!! >>>> >>>> >>>> Not to get into a religious debate, but don't languages that do lots >>>> of >>>> stuff behind the scenes "for you" tend to result in sloppy programming >>>> because programmers lose some discipline ? >>>> >>>> To me, it seems essential that any routine that allocates memory for a >>>> structure should have an accompanying one to deallocate that structure >>>> (and any substructures attached to it). >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Actually, no. Many times you allocate memory but don't really know >>> when >>> the >>> last reference to it is released. This happens when a routine >>> allocates >>> memory and then returns that memory as part of it's result. >> >> Why can't the caller free the memory? > > What happens when the caller allocates memory for a node in a b-tree and > then adds the node to the b-tree? This is a very, very simple example of > why memory management without a garbage collector is prone to leaks and > dangling pointers. I give, what happens and why? > > Mike. > > > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:01:31 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: CLD vs. Autamatic Foreign Command; or what the heck do I use? Message-ID: Larry Kilgallen wrote: > In writing products to be licensed to others, I require entry into > DCLTABLES.EXE because: My philosophy is this: If this is a utility used by one or just a couple of people, it is probably simpler to have it as a foreign command (with DCL syntax parsing). If this is to be a widely used utility, then it is better in DCLTABLES. One advantage of the foreign command is that this will usually be "documented" in SYLOGIN or some other file (like TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS.COM) When you put it into DCLTABLES, it melts into the whole set of default commands that come with VMS. When auditing a system to find out what customisations have been made to it (so as prior to porting to a new platform), it isn't obvious which command in DCLTABLES is default and which is customised. ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 2007 16:17:42 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: CLD vs. Autamatic Foreign Command; or what the heck do I use? Message-ID: In article , JF Mezei writes: > > My philosophy is this: If this is a utility used by one or just a couple > of people, it is probably simpler to have it as a foreign command (with > DCL syntax parsing). If this is to be a widely used utility, then it is > better in DCLTABLES. I prefer using the built in parser for both. For those commands not being used by lots of people I don't put the command in DCLTABLES, I just let those users put the "set command" in their login.com . ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:56:35 -0600 From: Kevin Handy Subject: Re: DNS Attacks Message-ID: <1177523882_5627@sp12lax.superfeed.net> Bob Koehler wrote: > In article , Chuck Aaron writes: >> I am getting a lot of DNS attacks from Asia Pacific Network and RIPE on >> ftp but >> mostly ssh. Instead of rejecting individual hosts ip addresses, what >> would be the >> best way to keep these networks from coming in? Is there a command or >> commands >> to lock out the entire range of IP's or is there a better way? > > Depending on your IP stack there should be a way to lock out > networks by address and mask. Multinet certainly has it. The problem with using a blacklist is the fact that these attacks come in from a large number of systems. Many of them are probably from assorted botnets. I worked on this problem (on a Linux machine used for ssh), and I had more than 30 top level IP address (210.* for example) in my hosts.deny before giving up on that method. This was becoming a big problem for me because I was losing a large part of my bandwidth to these constant attacks. I am now using a whitelist (i.e. hosts.allow), and it's working much better for me. A whitelist is where you specify who you want to allow access, verses a blacklist where you specify who you want to deny access. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:13:42 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: DNS Attacks Message-ID: <2a400$462f9a9d$cef8887a$20373@TEKSAVVY.COM> What VMS needs if better integration of the TCPIP software with the security system. the TTY_ Break-in evasion pararemeters should also apply to the TCPIP Services in terms of blocking an IP for a period of time. I.E. add it to the rejection list (TCPIP SET COMM/REJECT for only about 15 minutes then remove it). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 00:10:56 +0200 From: Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski Subject: dtlogin and $HOME/.dtsession equivalents? Message-ID: <20070426001056.a8b045ba.m_roguski@yahoo.com> So I'm having fun with 7.3-1 on my DEC2000/300, but I have a little question. I managed to customize startup scripts to do my biddings, but I'm still missing motif (cde) login screen, and can't get commands to be executed at session start (I only found a way to do it in DECwindows, by modifying templates)- most notably setting root window background, but also I'd like to start some gizmos, like cpu load etc... So like in the title, what's the VMS name for dtlogin app, and where can I put my "user session" scripts? Rambo ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 2007 17:37:45 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: If you live in California, get out now! (Part 2) Message-ID: <1177547865.491668.235880@s33g2000prh.googlegroups.com> On Apr 24, 6:40 am, Andrew wrote: > On 24 Apr, 02:04, gen...@marblecliff.com wrote: > > > > > On Apr 23, 8:04 pm, c...@wvnvms.wvnet.edu (George Cook) wrote: > > > > In article , Bill Todd writes: > > > > > Doc wrote: > > > > > ... > > > > > some > > > >> fruit-loop theologian postulated in the 70s that the seven headed monster > > > >> with ten horns was the European Union. > > > > > Wow - serendipity strikes again: that must be why their exchange rates > > > > aren't relevant to GDP comparisons - their devilish currency isn't > > > > acceptable in God's Country, hence has no value. > > > > > ... > > > > > They all appear to want to see the Earth and all unbelievers > > > >> wiped out > > > > > I'm afraid that I have to admit to feeling similarly about neocons > > > > (i.e., that the only good neocon is a dead neocon), and since the 1998 > > > > impeachment debacle I've been inclined to extend that sentiment to *all* > > > > Republicans (I'm certainly a fan of Lincoln's, but then he is > > > > indisputably a Republican of the dead persuasion) and more recently even > > > > to a lot of Democrats. > > > > > But if that puts me into the same category as the likes of boob, perhaps > > > > I'll need to reconsider that position. For that matter, it's never been > > > > one I've been all that comfortable with, but in times of war (and I do > > > > believe that we're at war with such aggressive incompetents, at least > > > > until they've been sufficiently beaten back not to constitute a > > > > continuing menace) sensibilities sometimes need to take a back seat. > > > > I suspected as much, but had avoided calling you a "hater" without > > > actual proof. But it is one of the reasons why I started using "boob" > > > in reference to you. You and boob are both haters who are so blinded by > > > your hate that you will say anything, twist any fact, ignore all evidence > > > to the contrary in order to make the other side look bad. > > > > I may be a lot of things, but I most definitely am not a hater. I > > > liked Clinton personally and would probably have had a good time > > > throwing back a few cold ones with him. I would never have considered > > > him to be a hater, but the latest crop of liberals in Congress are > > > mostly haters just like yourself. > > > > George Cook- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > the only thing I am a hater of is the same thing God > > is a hater off ... sin ... > > Come on Bob you also clearly hate the Caps Lock and Shift keys. > > Regards > Andrew And you the puncutation keys. You're missing a comma after "Come on Bob". AEF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:53:10 +0200 From: Marcin 'Rambo' Roguski Subject: Re: IT'S THAT TIME AGAIN - FREE DS10L OFFER Message-ID: <20070425235310.a0af0a0c.m_roguski@yahoo.com> On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:46:08 -0400 "David Turner, Island Computers" wrote: > Well via DHL probably about $150 I hope you did get my inquiry- never got confirmation :( Rambo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:40:13 +0200 From: Dirk Munk Subject: Re: Neocons destroying America Message-ID: Neil Rieck wrote: > According to this recent PBS program, the total cost of the war has > already exceeded US$1 Trillion Dollars. No wonder. Rumsfeld & Cheney c.s. do know how to destroy things with bombs etc., but they haven't got a clue about rebuilding. If only a fraction of that US1$ Trillion had been spend on rebuilding the infrastructure (water & electricity for instance), things might have been quite different. They never gave it a thought, instead they gave the Iraqi people plenty of reasons to hate the Americans. Brilliant strategy, the late mr. Saddam Hussein at least knew that repairing the war damage would keep his people happy. These idiots did not know. So know you keep spending money on a continuous war with no end in sight. > It also claims that the neocons > wanted to take out Iraq and used 9/11 as an excuse to do so. This meant > that the Bush administration needed to constantly sell the war to the > American public through the media. What is new about that? This 'theory' has been common knowledge for a couple of years now (at least in countries with a free press). That bunch of criminals around George W. even had the audacity to send a highly respectable and decent man like Colin Powells to the UN with a pack of lies to explain why the US had to go to war. > > http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index-flash.html > > p.s. in previous years this would have been funded by selling bonds etc. > I fear that today's war is funded by just printing money. Like I said > previously, no one wants to see America destroy their economy. > > NSR > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:18:12 -0600 From: Dan O'Reilly Subject: Re: Neocons destroying America Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20070425221238.0760c5f0@192.168.0.11> ..and, of course, EVERYTHING PBS broadcasts is always done with absolutely no agenda - particularly by the likes of Bill Moyer, etc... But then again, we all know that George Bush is evil, Dick Cheney is evil, Bush conspired to have the US government create 9/11, and, of course, we all know that even though the UN, virtually every EU country, Australia, Japan, etc, etc, etc, all said the exact same thing - using THEIR OWN INTELLIGENCE, only Bush was lying about it...oh, yeah, and that the US media and the likes of the BBC have absolutely no political agenda, let alone a well-documented left-leaning one. Oh, you poor misinformed robots...but arguing with people like you is like hitting your head on a brick wall - it feels so good when you stop. At 09:40 PM 4/25/2007, Dirk Munk wrote: >Neil Rieck wrote: >>According to this recent PBS program, the total cost of the war has >>already exceeded US$1 Trillion Dollars. > >No wonder. Rumsfeld & Cheney c.s. do know how to destroy things with bombs >etc., but they haven't got a clue about rebuilding. If only a fraction of >that US1$ Trillion had been spend on rebuilding the infrastructure (water >& electricity for instance), things might have been quite different. They >never gave it a thought, instead they gave the Iraqi people plenty of >reasons to hate the Americans. Brilliant strategy, the late mr. Saddam >Hussein at least knew that repairing the war damage would keep his people >happy. These idiots did not know. So know you keep spending money on a >continuous war with no end in sight. > >>It also claims that the neocons wanted to take out Iraq and used 9/11 as >>an excuse to do so. This meant that the Bush administration needed to >>constantly sell the war to the American public through the media. > >What is new about that? This 'theory' has been common knowledge for a >couple of years now (at least in countries with a free press). That bunch >of criminals around George W. even had the audacity to send a highly >respectable and decent man like Colin Powells to the UN with a pack of >lies to explain why the US had to go to war. > >>http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index-flash.html >>p.s. in previous years this would have been funded by selling bonds etc. >>I fear that today's war is funded by just printing money. Like I said >>previously, no one wants to see America destroy their economy. >>NSR >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:40:13 -0400 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Neocons destroying America (was: Democrats destroying America) Message-ID: <46300497$0$16292$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> According to this recent PBS program, the total cost of the war has already exceeded US$1 Trillion Dollars. It also claims that the neocons wanted to take out Iraq and used 9/11 as an excuse to do so. This meant that the Bush administration needed to constantly sell the war to the American public through the media. http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index-flash.html p.s. in previous years this would have been funded by selling bonds etc. I fear that today's war is funded by just printing money. Like I said previously, no one wants to see America destroy their economy. NSR -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 2007 13:09:52 -0700 From: Ian Miller Subject: Re: New DCL qualifier suggestion. Message-ID: <1177531792.602599.216430@b40g2000prd.googlegroups.com> no longer Guy but you can contact the current maintainer of DCL by emailing dcl at hp dot com ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 2007 13:30:15 -0700 From: "John." Subject: Re: New DCL qualifier suggestion. Message-ID: <1177533015.408195.229600@t39g2000prd.googlegroups.com> On Apr 24, 6:36 am, Baxt...@tessco.com wrote: > I have a very complex End-of-Day process which is primarily DCL > scripts. I also have a (very simplistic) error checking job which > examines the process log files for errors. > The biggest nuisance I have to deal with is error and warning > messages generated by general "Delete" and "Purge" commands, (with or > without wildcards), when the target file(s) are not found. > I know that I can get rid of these messages by doing a > conditional delete (i.e. if f$search("filename") .nes. "") or by > turning off messaging, however the first option requires a lot of > extra code to do the condition checking, and the second option is to > generic. > > What would be really nice would be a qualifier which would allow > this to be turned of selectively, and stop the program from generating > the messages. I am thinking of something like > > $ Delete/Suppress > > which would suppress any errors or warnings for that specific command > execution. /NoSuppress could be the default, and it could be made > available for most DCL commands, but specifically (to meet my needs) > for Delete and Purge. > > Anyone else like the idea (Are you listening Guy Peleg!!) > > Dave. Set /f/i/s/t in your case set /nof /noi /nos /not Where the parameters represent parts of the error/warning messages. Facility Interactive? Severity Text This determines how much of what error message is returned. If used alltogether this can turn those messages off. I haven't used it in a while, so I'm a tad rusty on it's full gory details. John. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:05:21 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: New DCL qualifier suggestion. Message-ID: <4aea7$462fc2d7$cef8887a$1831@TEKSAVVY.COM> Ian Miller wrote: > no longer Guy but you can contact the current maintainer of DCL by > emailing > > dcl at hp dot com This person is pretty lucky to have a name whose initials are "dcl" :-) ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 2007 17:47:00 -0700 From: AEF Subject: Re: New DCL qualifier suggestion. Message-ID: <1177548420.096950.7140@t39g2000prd.googlegroups.com> On Apr 24, 9:36 am, Baxt...@tessco.com wrote: > I have a very complex End-of-Day process which is primarily DCL > scripts. I also have a (very simplistic) error checking job which > examines the process log files for errors. > The biggest nuisance I have to deal with is error and warning > messages generated by general "Delete" and "Purge" commands, (with or > without wildcards), when the target file(s) are not found. > I know that I can get rid of these messages by doing a > conditional delete (i.e. if f$search("filename") .nes. "") or by > turning off messaging, however the first option requires a lot of > extra code to do the condition checking, and the second option is to > generic. > > What would be really nice would be a qualifier which would allow > this to be turned of selectively, and stop the program from generating > the messages. I am thinking of something like > > $ Delete/Suppress > > which would suppress any errors or warnings for that specific command > execution. /NoSuppress could be the default, and it could be made > available for most DCL commands, but specifically (to meet my needs) > for Delete and Purge. > > Anyone else like the idea (Are you listening Guy Peleg!!) > > Dave. How does your error checking routine work? You're just having problem with the SEARCHFAIL and FNF messages? Are you only requesting the new qualifier or a better way to make do with current VMS? AEF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:21:14 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: New DCL qualifier suggestion. Message-ID: <462FFE8A.B21DD5C@spam.comcast.net> Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote: > > I regulary do this in my DCL's : > > $ if f$search("some-file" or "some-symbol") .nes. "" > $ then > $ delete/whatever "some-file" or "some-symbol" > $ endif > > I've never had any problem with that... I prefer: $ FSP = F$SEARCH( filespec ) $ IF FSP .NES. "" THEN - $ do something That way if a literal needs to be changed, I only have to change it in one place. -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 18:40:55 -0400 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: OpenVMS Boot Camp Confusion Message-ID: <462fcc81$0$16387$88260bb3@free.teranews.com> There's a rumour going around about up-and-coming HP "OpenVMS Boot Camp" being the last one. As far as I can tell this is not true but a course by the same name is being dropped by Parsec. Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:49:11 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: OT: EHR, etc. Message-ID: <46300517.BD254ECC@spam.comcast.net> JF Mezei wrote: > > David J Dachtera wrote: > >> Medical software vendor says it won't support OS on Itanium-based servers > > I am currently having to visit a hospital a lot. And I can tell you that > there is still a HUGE potential market for computerising hospital records. > > Amazing how an IT person notices inefficiencies in a hospital and how > stuff would be better if properly moved to computers. Consider just a > case of a patient moving from a few days stay at emergency ward to a > proper room upstairs. Change of doctor, change of nursing staff. And the > experience of the ER nurses with that patient is essentially lost and > the family is the one who ends up transfering the experience/knowledge > to the new staff. And that is within the same hospital. Well, the Electronic Health Record is not a "cure all", and cannot address the issues you cite unless the staff accompanies the patient to his new unit - which doesn't happen. > Also, admissions had access to family records and contact numbers, but > the nursing staff didn't since they don't have access to those computers. The Electronic Health Record adresses that concern, but also raises concern about protecting the patient's privacy. Hence access controls are emplaced. > And the next step is inter-hospital/clinic records access. So when a > patient is in hospital with high blood pressure as one of the problem > areas, the doctors there don't immediatly have access to all the blood > pressure readings done in the past elsewhere to provide a baseline of > what is "normal" for that person without other infections etc etc. At some point, the Electronic Health Record may evolve to that level. We're already seeing some of this in the private sector. Wider acceptance will be subject to all the usual flap over HIPAA and information security beyond HIPAA. > Now, since VMS is on a dead-end platform, it becomes really hard to > pitch a VMS based solution for such a great potential customer that > really needs it. Especially right after the health care system in quebec > suffered a big virus in its windows IT systems. If VMS were on a viable > platform today, they could/should pitch it to the quebec government. But > HP probably knows very well that it is pointless to try to pitch some > IA64 stuff. HP knows IA64 is a liability, and its refusal to admit it > will cost it its enterprise customer base as well a growth potential in > areas where it would be se easy to make huge sales. Realistically, the back-end servers ("tier 3" or "tier 2") really are transparent to the end user. The "user interface" ("tier 1") will be the issue. Obviously WhineBloze is not acceptable, yet it is ubiquitous. Could we convince the industry to go with some other access model? Perhaps an x-based thin client invoking software on a secured "middle tier" server (instances, blade, etc.) (Gnome/KDE on *BSD, DECwindows on VMS, Gnome/KDE/X on AIX or Solaris, etc.) -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 20:54:47 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: SET Security question Message-ID: <46300667.5978C037@spam.comcast.net> Martin Krischik wrote: > > norm.raphael@metso.com schrieb: > > > Protection codes notwithstanding, If a process has READALL, I believe it > > will be able to read the file, and if it has BYPASS .... > > Yes, I know about those two - just like unix where you can't protect > anything from the root user. The other question is whether you own the file. The owner always has "control" access (can change the file's protection mask). -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 2007 13:41:46 -0700 From: tom Subject: Set terminal/inquire in SYLOGIN Message-ID: <1177533706.797613.147080@o40g2000prh.googlegroups.com> I posted this to the HP ITRC forum, but figured I'd try here as well. We've been using OLD SYLOGIN.COM files on our systems, and I thought we should update by using the latest template, and merge our local changes into it. Anyway, I guess I'm missing something in the "set terminal/inquire" logic. The old SYLOGIN used to just check for unknown terminal types and whether it was DECwindows. Now, it checks different terminal types (FT,TN, etc.) I'm coming in via either telnet (TN device), or SSH (FT) device, so the "/inquire" isn't done. That means DEC_CRT, Advanced video, etc. doesn't get set. I need the "set term/inquire" to set these up. Can someone explain why the F$LOCATE is there? I've tried Attachmate Extra, WRQ Reflection, and Hyperterminal, and they all come back with a device type of "unknown" when I do a "show terminal". After a "set term/inq", I get a VT Device type. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:15:38 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Set terminal/inquire in SYLOGIN Message-ID: tom wrote: > I'm coming in via either telnet (TN device), or SSH (FT) device, so > the "/inquire" isn't done. That means DEC_CRT, Advanced video, etc. > doesn't get set. I need the "set term/inquire" to set these up. Can > someone explain why the F$LOCATE is there? $ TT_NOINQUIR = "|TW|RT|WT|TK|WS|PY|FT|TN|" $ TT_DEVNAME = F$GETDVI("TT","TT_PHYDEVNAM") $ TT_DEVPREFIX = F$EXTRACT(1,2,TT_DEVNAME) $ IF F$LOCATE("|''TT_DEVPREFIX'|",TT_NOINQUIR) .eq. F$Length(TT_NOINQUIR) TT_NOINQUIR contains a | delimited list of device names that don't generate a SET TERM/INQUIRE. TT_DEVPREFIX contains the first 2 characters of the current terminal device. F$LOCATE checks to see if DEVPREFIX is contained in NOINQUIR, if so, then no SET TERM/INQUIRE is done. So, when you come in with whatever transport you are using, do a WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$GETDVI("TT","TT_PHYDEVNAM") This will tell you what physical device VMS considers you to be on. You can then check if the first two letters of that device name are included in the "NOINQUIR" list. If so, you could just edit the TT_NOINQUIR definition to remove your device type from it. ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 2007 16:22:24 -0500 From: koehler@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: Set terminal/inquire in SYLOGIN Message-ID: In article <1177533706.797613.147080@o40g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, tom writes: > > I'm coming in via either telnet (TN device), or SSH (FT) device, so > the "/inquire" isn't done. That means DEC_CRT, Advanced video, etc. > doesn't get set. I need the "set term/inquire" to set these up. Can > someone explain why the F$LOCATE is there? I've tried Attachmate > Extra, WRQ Reflection, and Hyperterminal, and they all come back with > a device type of "unknown" when I do a "show terminal". After a "set > term/inq", I get a VT Device type. I don't know about the latest template, but I stopped following the template examples for this a couple major revisions back. That's when the template tried to pick up the terminal width from the UCB's buffer size. That doesn't always work and the resulting "set terminal" command does always clear the screen, wiping out SYS$WELCOME before it can be read. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:35:23 -0400 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Set terminal/inquire in SYLOGIN Message-ID: <170bb$462fc9e1$cef8887a$3075@TEKSAVVY.COM> Bob Koehler wrote: > when the template tried to pick up the terminal width from the > UCB's buffer size. > > That doesn't always work and the resulting "set terminal" command > does always clear the screen, wiping out SYS$WELCOME before it can > be read. > That is because some task force formed by a subcommitee working under a committee of VMS management decided to do a $SET TERM/INQUIRE/PAGE=xx/WIDTH=xx instead of a SET TERM/INQUIRE alone. SET TERM/PAGE and/or /WIDTH clears the screen. SET TERM/INQUIRE doesn't mess with the screen (it only consumes typeahead buffer). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:47:33 GMT From: Tad Winters Subject: Re: Set terminal/inquire in SYLOGIN Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote in news:170bb$462fc9e1 $cef8887a$3075@TEKSAVVY.COM: > Bob Koehler wrote: >> when the template tried to pick up the terminal width from the >> UCB's buffer size. >> >> That doesn't always work and the resulting "set terminal" command >> does always clear the screen, wiping out SYS$WELCOME before it can >> be read. >> > That is because some task force formed by a subcommitee working under a > committee of VMS management decided to do a > $SET TERM/INQUIRE/PAGE=xx/WIDTH=xx > > instead of a SET TERM/INQUIRE alone. > > SET TERM/PAGE and/or /WIDTH clears the screen. > > SET TERM/INQUIRE doesn't mess with the screen (it only consumes > typeahead buffer). I believe it's caused by setting the width. I've noted Wyse terminals have an option to _not_ clear the screen when the terminal width is changed. I hate that SYS$WELCOME is wiped out, but since I almost always run with 132 columns, I've gotten used to scrolling back the emulator. On the rare occasion I use a real terminal, I just don't read that stuff. I guess it's a good thing the only time I use a real terminal is on systems where I'm the only one who would know how to update SYS$WELCOME. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:02:54 -0500 From: David J Dachtera Subject: Re: Set terminal/inquire in SYLOGIN Message-ID: <4630084E.4E2EA25C@spam.comcast.net> tom wrote: > > I posted this to the HP ITRC forum, but figured I'd try here as well. > We've been using OLD SYLOGIN.COM files on our systems, and I thought > we should update by using the latest template, and merge our local > changes into it. Anyway, I guess I'm missing something in the "set > terminal/inquire" logic. The old SYLOGIN used to just check for > unknown terminal types and whether it was DECwindows. Now, it checks > different terminal types (FT,TN, etc.) > > I'm coming in via either telnet (TN device), or SSH (FT) device, so > the "/inquire" isn't done. That means DEC_CRT, Advanced video, etc. > doesn't get set. I need the "set term/inquire" to set these up. Can > someone explain why the F$LOCATE is there? I've tried Attachmate > Extra, WRQ Reflection, and Hyperterminal, and they all come back with > a device type of "unknown" when I do a "show terminal". After a "set > term/inq", I get a VT Device type. You can probably just trash it if you don't need it, and just condition the SET TERM/INQ based on F$GETJPI( 0, "MODE" ) .EQS. "INTERACTIVE". I prefer SET TERM/INQ/LINE, and I add /OVER where the TTY default characteristics have /INSERT set by default (*VERY* irritating!). -- David J Dachtera dba DJE Systems http://www.djesys.com/ Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: 25 Apr 2007 22:04:45 -0500 From: wb8tyw@qsl.network (John E. Malmberg) Subject: Re: Set terminal/inquire in SYLOGIN Message-ID: In article <4630084E.4E2EA25C@spam.comcast.net>, David J Dachtera writes: > tom wrote: >> >> I posted this to the HP ITRC forum, but figured I'd try here as well. >> We've been using OLD SYLOGIN.COM files on our systems, and I thought >> we should update by using the latest template, and merge our local >> changes into it. Anyway, I guess I'm missing something in the "set >> terminal/inquire" logic. The old SYLOGIN used to just check for >> unknown terminal types and whether it was DECwindows. Now, it checks >> different terminal types (FT,TN, etc.) >> >> I'm coming in via either telnet (TN device), or SSH (FT) device, so >> the "/inquire" isn't done. That means DEC_CRT, Advanced video, etc. >> doesn't get set. I need the "set term/inquire" to set these up. Can >> someone explain why the F$LOCATE is there? I've tried Attachmate >> Extra, WRQ Reflection, and Hyperterminal, and they all come back with >> a device type of "unknown" when I do a "show terminal". After a "set >> term/inq", I get a VT Device type. > > You can probably just trash it if you don't need it, and just condition > the SET TERM/INQ based on F$GETJPI( 0, "MODE" ) .EQS. "INTERACTIVE". That breaks the startup of many X-11 applications, or makes their output logss noisy. I can not see any reason to keep track of what terminal types show up. I posted the following script on Nov 29, 2005 that can be used to determine if the command file is running on a real terminal session. ---- I do not normally use SET TERM/INQUIRE in login scripts. It slows down the script and if I type before it completes the inquiry, what I type gets lost, and the terminal type gets set to unknown. All my terminals and emulators are at least VT300 compliant, and the /REGIS characteristics do not seem to be used by any application that I have. $ is_terminal = f$getdvi("sys$command","TRM") $ mode = f$mode() $! $ if mode .eqs. "Interactive" $ then $ if is_terminal $ then $ ! You are a real interactive session $ if f$getdvi("SYS$COMMAND","devtype") .eq. 0 $ then $ ! you do not know your terminal type already $ set term/inquire $! $! Note, if you know that your terminal type will $! always be a VTxxx series, it is much faster to $! just set the terminal to that type than to use $! /inquire. $! $ set term/insert $ else $! ! The system thinks it knows what terminal type $! ! you have. In most cases it is probably right. $ endif $ else $ ! You are probably an X-11 session with out a terminal. $ endif $ endif ---- The only terminal that I have seen this algorithm not work with is with the OPA0: device. On my VAX/VMS systems it gets set to a hardcopy terminal type by default. I adjust it to the correct type when systartup_vms is run. -John wb8tyw@qsl.network Personal Opinion Only ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.227 ************************