INFO-VAX Thu, 01 Feb 2007 Volume 2007 : Issue 64 Contents: DECforms Re: DECforms Do PAKS add up? Re: Do PAKS add up? Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? Re: HSZTerm for Integrity? Re: HSZTerm for Integrity? Re: HSZTerm for Integrity? Re: HSZTerm for Integrity? Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Re: MBR(Master Boot Record) please help! OpenVMS success? Re: PL/I for Itanium Re: PL/I for Itanium Re: PRODUCT INSTALL question Re: Purging across nodes deletes the only version of a file Re: Purging across nodes deletes the only version of a file Re: Purveyor CGI mailbox capacity [bit long winded] Re: SYS$CLUSTER_NODE_FULLNAME not defined Re: Was installed with VMSINSTAL, can be upgraded with Polycenter? Re: Was installed with VMSINSTAL, can be upgraded with Polycenter? Re: You gotta see this ! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 1 Feb 2007 10:06:16 -0800 From: roland@logikalsolutions.com Subject: DECforms Message-ID: <1170353176.778118.300320@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> I did some digging today through this group and through the new on- line doc at HP. Is DECforms Web officially dead? The release notes for the new version say it is not supported on either Itanium or Alpha. They also claimed they dropped DECWindows support in the release notes. Wasn't the whole point of DECforms that it could connect to Windoze and supported the X terminals? Appreciate any info. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 13:49:05 -0500 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: DECforms Message-ID: roland@logikalsolutions.com wrote: > I did some digging today through this group and through the new on- > line doc at HP. Is DECforms Web officially dead? The release notes > for the new version say it is not supported on either Itanium or > Alpha. > > They also claimed they dropped DECWindows support in the release > notes. > > Wasn't the whole point of DECforms that it could connect to Windoze > and supported the X terminals? DECforms: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/commercial/decforms/ From the URL: "HP DECforms engineering is pleased to announce HP DECforms version 4.0 for OpenVMS Integrity servers and AlphaServer systems. It is scheduled to begin shipping in March 2006." The DECforms SPD also lists support for OpenVMS Alpha V8.2 and up and on OpenVMS I64 V8.2 and up. Per one of the linked pages, the DECforms Web Connector is retired. http://h71000.www7.hp.com/commercial/decforms/webconnect.html The above URL lists a contact form for reaching Rick McLaughlin, the business manager for DECforms, and for the (retired) DECforms Web Connector. AttachmateWRQ and Ericom are listed on that same web page as being the vendors for replacements. The TDMS package did get rebooted and ported, FWIW, though I don't know the version status and contacts for that off-hand. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: 1 Feb 2007 07:15:24 -0800 From: "tadamsmar" Subject: Do PAKS add up? Message-ID: <1170342924.150016.195220@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com> Say you have a couple of PAKs from old machines and you put them on a new machine that requires more units than either of the PAKs, but not more than the sum of the units. Will that work? Will you have the license covered for the new machine? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 12:03:48 -0500 From: JF Mezei Subject: Re: Do PAKS add up? Message-ID: <30123$45c21d7c$cef8887a$1414@TEKSAVVY.COM> tadamsmar wrote: > Say you have a couple of PAKs from old machines and you put them on a > new machine that requires more units than either of the PAKs, but not > more than the sum of the units. I seem to recall Digital having programs to help you combind multiple licences in to single ones at the time when DEC moved from hardware based units to workstation/group/departmental/mainframe class of licencing scheme. So it would seem to me that combining licences might require a new licence to be issued. HOWEVER: Try doing a LICENSE LOAD product/AUTHORISATION=xxxxxxx If it tells you that the licence was loaded with say 50 units. (and you need 100 for that platform) then perhaps combining might work. Then load the second licence the same way to see if that succeeds. Then, do a SHOW LICENSE/USAGE This will tell you how many units VMS says are needed, how many have been loaded for that product. You will then see if the system combined the units or kept them separate. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 13:04:37 -0500 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: DVD writer for DS10L ? Message-ID: JF Mezei wrote: > I have a DS10L with the right bay free. Given your proclivity with metal-working tools and a willingness to make existing holes larger, matters involving the chassis shouldn't be an issue. Add a willingness to risk RF interference and access to an air chisel or some torches, a replacement chassis, and Bob's your uncle. > I have a DSL10L with a SCSI card, but both bays full. Look for a bigger box and a main-board swap. Seriously. Or look for a box like a Mac OS X box or a Windows box or a Linux box, or look for a desktop or deskside Alpha system. Or mount the box inside the vegetable drawer of a refrigerator, and run the cables out the side. All of which can do what you want, and probably for less cost than you will have by trying to retrofit the recording drive into this 1U server. You're over-configuring a limited and purpose-built rack-and-stack density-optimized system. That task is "not fun" approaching "real work", and it won't provide the most beneficial user experience. There may well have been a CD-R/RW for this box, I have never looked for that -- the HP official CD-R/RW and DVD+R/RW upgrades were rather recent acquisitions for the AlphaServer series, particularly when compared with how common these devices are with Mac OS X, Windows and Linux configurations. > What would be the recommended solution to get some sort of DVD/CD writer > on one of these machines ? One where I could burn CDs and DVDs preferably ? > > I looked in some of the on-line catalogues and couldn't find SCSI based > DVD writers. (since those seemed to focus on consumer market). SCSI-based CD-R/RW devices are now scarce, and have been scarce for a few years now. SCSI-based DVD devices are even more scarce, and always have been. The usual path in that direction is an Acard or similar adapter, and connecting an IDE ATAPI device to the SCSI. I'd be surprised if all of the SCSI-IDE adapters around will work, but there have been reports here and elsewhere that some do work. Or you can work toward freeing up and using an IDE connection, and using that. You might well get a PCI USB working, if you have a PCI slot. (If you don't have a PCI slot, the Trifecta card is what you really want to find -- that's a multi-function PCI card and supported by OpenVMS.) > Are there any DVD writers that actually fit inside the DS10L ? Would > those be the types designed for laptops ? The slimline drives are used on most (all?) Integrity servers, and on the AlphaServer ES47, ES80 and GS1280 series boxes, and some others. The slimline drives can and do fit, but you'd need the adapter from the SCSI or IDE cabling you have to the slimline connector. The MultiBay drives are usually the right size, it's getting from the connector you have to the connector on the drive -- various of the AlphaServer boxes had adapters for these connections. Slimline drives are more expensive than the commodity drives -- which is one reason the Acard or equivalent adapter can be a useful approach, or the use of another system. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 08:22:13 -0800 From: "Malcolm Dunnett" Subject: Re: HSZTerm for Integrity? Message-ID: <45c213af$1@flight> "David J Dachtera" wrote in message news:45C14AE7.CC129C6A@spam.comcast.net... >> No, it's a production system. HSGs may be old but they work very well ... > > Oooohhhh... That's a stretch for me. Our development cluster runs on six > EMA12000 arrays and they are a royal PITA! Then again, we ARE running two > 16-CPU > GS1280s. When the Millennium folks go to clone the database I have to > throttle > the COPY-ies to keep from over-running the I/O queues on the HSGs. > Well, as they always say, YMMV!! I'm not at that scale, I'm running two 4-CPU ES40s and a few DS20s, with an 8-CPU GS140 as a cold spare. My itanium cluster consists of two 2-CPU rx2600s and a 2-CPU zx6000. I have six RA8000/MA2200s connected to various of these servers. To me the HSG80s are a blessing compared to what I had before ( Raid Array 310s, DAC 960s, direct SCSI adapter connected storage,... ). My sources for gear are mostly Island Computer and eBay. I've heard about the I/O Queue overrun errors, fortunately I've never experienced them. Seriously, has anyone got good things to say about the MSAs. I see that people are selling fairly nice sounding MSA1500 configurations in the $20-30K range, which is something I'd consider (barely) "affordable". Thats with a couple of racks of SCSI drives included. I understand that I don't want to look at using SATA drives on it if performance is a consideration. I take it I'm looking at six figures for an EVA, and I don't even want to think about an EMC solution ( frankly I shudder at the idea that only the vendor's technician can make configuration changes - as you can probably tell I'm a "hands-on" sort ). > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems > http://www.djesys.com/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page > http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 08:24:27 -0800 From: "Malcolm Dunnett" Subject: Re: HSZTerm for Integrity? Message-ID: <45c21435$1@flight> "David J Dachtera" wrote in message news:45C14B91.59F9E5C1@spam.comcast.net... > > I'm not sure how I'd get it there or how I could test it, but I could try > getting HSZTERM$SCSIPAD.EXE onto my account on the testdrive cluster and > see if > I can AEST it, I s'pose... I've not got any experience with AEST but I could give that a shot. I have an Itanium and a copy of HSZTERM$SCSIPAD, now I just need to figure out how to use AEST. > > -- > David J Dachtera > dba DJE Systems > http://www.djesys.com/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Marketing Home Page > http://www.djesys.com/vms/market/ > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS-IA32 Home Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/ia32/ > > Unofficial OpenVMS Hobbyist Support Page: > http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 09:14:43 -0800 From: "Malcolm Dunnett" Subject: Re: HSZTerm for Integrity? Message-ID: <45c21ffd$1@flight> "David J Dachtera" wrote: in message news:45C14B91.59F9E5C1@spam.comcast.net... > > I'm not sure how I'd get it there or how I could test it, but I could try > getting HSZTERM$SCSIPAD.EXE onto my account on the testdrive cluster and > see if > I can AEST it, I s'pose... > Thanks for the suggestion. I downloaded AEST, copied HSZTERM$SCSIPAD.EXE over from an Alpha and translated it. It seems to work just fine. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 18:10:20 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: HSZTerm for Integrity? Message-ID: In article <45c213af$1@flight>, "Malcolm Dunnett" wrote: > I understand that I don't want to > look at using SATA drives on it if performance is a consideration. From my reading, rather than experience, about SATA drives: o - quoted transfer rates are peak, not sustained o - they aren't designed for 24x365 operation -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 06:22:51 -0500 From: "Neil Rieck" Subject: Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Message-ID: <45c1cbb8$0$7467$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com> "JF Mezei" wrote in message news:814a3$45c10197$cef8887a$15254@TEKSAVVY.COM... > Neil Rieck wrote: >> Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 >> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37335 > > That is like GM saying , while introducing the 2007 models, that the 2006 > models will no longer be available. > Not sure about that but Intel makes sure that the new product can run the old code. They don't like to betray away their customers. > > Intel recently introduced a new generation of 8086s wich is quite > competitive with AMD's offerings, so it is no surprise that the older > models would be retired. > > And since Intel announced it would quicken the pace at which the new 8086s > are released, expect similar announcements more often now. > A couple of quotes from Wikipedia: The Intel Core processor uses the same microarchitecture as the Pentium M processors, but discards the Pentium M name (and also uses Intel's new logo). However the Pentium name will continue to be used in a new line of Core 2-derived processors. These processors, codenamed Conroe-L, will be marketed as the Pentium E2000 series. The new Pentium will have 1 MB of L2 cache and use an 800 MHz FSB, Intel EM64T technology, and Execute Disable Bit, and will be a dual-core processor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium Core 2 is an eighth-generation x86 architecture microprocessor produced by Intel and based on the Intel Core microarchitecture. Core 2 also marks the retirement of Intel's Pentium brand name that had been used since 1993, and the reunion of Intel's notebook and desktop product lines since Pentium M was released apart from Pentium 4 in 2003. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_2 Summary So basically they are killing off their 32-bit technology and only selling 64-bit (EM64T). The "execute disable bit" will offer protection from many kinds of viruses and makes this architecture functionally a little closer to what we have seen for years in products like PDP. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NX_bit This puts more pressure on Itanium and is another reason for HP to start porting OpenVMS to it. This will be even more obvious when the true quad-cores come out. You know what they are thinking with the announcement of the 8-core motherboard dubbed V-8. http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2080517,00.asp Neil Rieck Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada. http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/cool_openvms.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 12:41:37 -0500 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 Message-ID: Neil Rieck wrote: > Intel prepares to kill off the Pentium 4 > http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37335 The whole Pentium product line has been heading down-market and into the so-called value segment for a while now, and there have been rumors of its use for "value" products and even for product name retirement for some time now: http://news.com.com/Bidding+adieu+to+Pentium+M/2100-1006_3-6004731.html http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051130-5655.html http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2005/11/30/intel_to_drop_pentium_name/ The replacements are the Core and now the Core 2 line, and the Xeon derivatives of same. From direct experience, the Core 2 Duo clients and the Core-based Xeon 5100 Woodcrest series servers are screamingly fast. Quieter and cooler, too. The Core 2 and Xeon 5100 processors run far cooler than any of the Pentium NetBurst-class boxes I've dealt with, too. A 1U quad-core Woodcrest server can cohabitate in a room with a human, unlike various other 1U gear around -- there's enough 1U gear around that must reside in an acoustical enclosure or a dedicated server room. Or that requires hearing protection for lab denizens. FWIW, hot processors in a 1U usually implies substantial airflow for cooling and substantial flows in constrained 1U boxes usually means turbulent airflow and turbulence means model-plane engines and added fan power requirements for cooling fans. More simply: hot means fans means turbulent means power means heat means loud. Blade configurations and 80 or 120mm (or larger) fans are another approach. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 12:02:27 -0500 From: Stephen Hoffman Subject: Re: MBR(Master Boot Record) please help! Message-ID: Guy Peleg wrote: > "Navid Shakibapour" wrote in message > news:1170286868.116931.230740@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com... >> I want to disassemble a MBR file and understand what that code does, >> In particular I want to know the role of each line of the code (or >> each logically connected fragment of it) in the boot sequence and why >> that line is needed. >> You can download the MBR file that I choose from the following link: >> http://s15.quicksharing.com/v/3894883/final.bin.html An HTML / BIN file? I'd post plain text. I don't download bin files. > WHY? Yes, why are you interested. Your chosen tool is misleading you, or this isn't an OpenVMS I64 disk, or this is not an OpenVMS question. There is no executable code in the master boot record (MBR) for OpenVMS I64, or in the GUID Partitioning Table (GPT) structures that can be referenced by the MBR. There is no executable code within any of the MBR or GPT structures. That's how all of the Itanium systems and the EFI console operate. OpenVMS I64 does have latent tools that can disassemble and display the contents of the key pieces of the MBR, and commands such as DUMP can show the rest. OpenVMS I64 does use MBR and (usually) MBR and GPT for the bootstrap structures. To dump the interesting bits: $ sb :== $sys$system:sys$setboot $ sb -s -f ddcu: You can get the data back into DCL symbols, too. For the available command help for this: $ sb -? If you want to see how these structures are organized and used, the available Intel and UEFI EFI console documentation has the full details of the on-disk bootstrap structures. The OpenVMS Alpha and OpenVMS VAX systems do not use MBR structures. These systems use the BTBDEF structures, as defined in the OpenVMS libraries. If you have sys$setboot around, it can decode these disk structures, too. -- www.HoffmanLabs.com Services for OpenVMS ------------------------------ Date: 1 Feb 2007 09:53:27 -0800 From: "Doug Phillips" Subject: OpenVMS success? Message-ID: <1170352407.740349.264510@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> In another thread, I posted the following link to the HP success story page that a person would probably find when starting from the HP home page (not the OpenVMS home page): I'm surprised no one commented on it. It speaks volumes about HP's attitude towards OpenVMS. Maybe no one took the time to look? It seems important to me, so here it is: Integrity Server Solutions Success stories =BB Operating system View by Operating System =BB Multi O/S customer successes =BB HP-UX and 11i customer successes =BB Linux customer successes =BB Windows customer successes =BB OpenVMS customer successes Multi O/S customer successes =BB Laziomatica (Regione Lazio) (*ss) =BB Lithuanian Customs (*ss) =BB Mobiltel (*ss) =BB Renesas Technology (*ss, PDF, 209 KB) HP-UX11i customer successes =BB ABB (*ss) =BB Airbus UK (*ss) =BB ARDA Hungarian (*ss) =BB Avtovaz (*ss) =BB Banco Espirito Santo (*ss) =BB Bucks County Community College (BCCC) (*ss) =BB Campana Systems Inc. (*ss) =BB Capita Insurance Services (CIS) (*ss) =BB CargoSmart (*ss) =BB Cheng Loong Corporation (*ss) =BB Chevron (*ss) =BB Croatian Post (*ss) =BB Emmi Schweiz (*ss) =BB Festo AG & Co. KG (*ss) =BB General Mills (*ss) =BB Genfar (*ss) =BB Harman Pro Group (*ss) =BB Health Data Management Solutions (*ss) =BB HTM Sport- & Freizeitgerate AG (*ss) =BB Hubert Burda Media Group (*ss, *v) =BB Info AG (*ss) =BB Intrado (*ss,*v) =BB Kaeser Kompressoren (*ss) =BB Lekkerland (*ss) =BB Lenze AG (*ss) =BB Litasco (*ss) =BB Lithuanian Customs (*ss) =BB Lufthansa Technik Logistik (*ss) =BB Lyon Highway Monitoring Center (CORALY) (*ss) =BB Mack Multiples (*ss) =BB Mitel (*ss) =BB Metro Health (*ss) =BB Nordzucker (*ss) =BB REWE Austria (*ss) =BB Royal London (*ss) =BB SAI Global (*ss) =BB Scottish Life (a division of Royal London) (*ss) =BB Sedus Stoll (*ss) =BB State Social Protection Fund of Azerbaijan (*ss) =BB Taifook Securities Group (*ss, *v) =BB University of Kentucky (*ss) =BB University of Magdeburg(*ss) =BB University of Oslo (*ss) =BB Vodafone NZ (*ss) Linux customer successes =BB City Council of Madrid (*ss) =BB Fiserv (*ss,*v) =BB Forbes (*ss) =BB INTA National Institute for Aerospace Technology (Spain) (*ss) =BB Municipality of Rome (*ss) =BB Rice University - Shoah Foundation's Holocaust Testimonial Archive (*ss) =BB Scientific Supercomputing Center Karlsruhe SSCK (*ss, PDF, 575 KB) =BB SPACI Consortium (*ss, PDF, 216 KB) =BB University of Troms=F8 (*ss) =BB Veracomp (*ss) Windows customer successes =BB AKH Linz (*ss, PDF, 261 KB) =BB Ameren Corporation (*ss) =BB aSIS (*ss) =BB Banca Popolare di Vicenza (*ss) =BB Cyence International (*ss) =BB ebm-papst (*ss) =BB First American Title Insurance Company (*ss) =BB Groupo Cegasa (*ss) =BB Indigo Lighthouse (*ss) =BB JTI (*v) =BB KCM SA in Bulgaria (*ss, PDF,1.16 MB) =BB Lithuanian Customs (*ss) =BB Pechanga Resort and Casino (*ss, *v) =BB PGGM (*ss) =BB Pohjola Group (*ss) =BB Prada (*ss, PDF, 115 KB) =BB PREMIER Bankcard (*ss) =BB Raymond James Financial (*ss) =BB Sao Paulo Stock Exchange-Bovespa (*ss) =BB Sava Group (*ss) =BB Sydney Opera House (*ss) =BB Telefonica S.A. (*ss) =BB The Koehler Group (*ss) =BB Upper Austria (*ss) =BB VTG-LEHNKERING AG (*ss) OpenVMS customer successes =BB ESME-Sudria (*ss) Footnote: *ss =3D Success story *nr =3D News release *ss/nr =3D Success story/News release *v =3D video Odd, I see quite a few government agencies, financial institutions and other "sensitive" customer types on those lists. Some very well know names are there, too. Obviously, HP customers aren't afraid to let the world know about their successful use of HP-UX, Windows and even Linux. OpenVMS only has one listed. Even the OpenVMS home page only has links to six (the above included). Success in the OpenVMS world is rare, it seems. Read the Multi O/S customer successes and find phrases like "the ability to integrate HP-UX and Windows" and draw your own conclusion about the importance of Windows in the business world. People who'd rather stick their heads in the sand and ignore that nasty old microsloth stuff likely still won't "get it". A few years ago I might have been able to provide some OpenVMS success stories, if anyone had cared enough to ask, but today those stories have mostly lost their "integrity". Oh, and if HP doesn't know who to ask, then that also speaks volumes. Customer don't usually approach vendors on matters such as this. Just in case there are a few more than six OpenVMS successes, here's a free hint for anyone at HP who might care (posed as questions): - Which HP employees know the most about HP customers within their geographic area? - Anyone ever ask them about OpenVMS customer successes? - Do you think they might know which person at a company could talk to HP about it? If that avenue has already been exhausted, I guess there just aren't any more OpenVMS successes worth talking about. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 11:07:10 -0500 From: BobH Subject: Re: PL/I for Itanium Message-ID: <45C2102E.5020401@x.y> Arne Vajhøj wrote: > Paul Sture wrote: > >> According to that philosophy, C# is a non-starter for embedded systems. > > > Hello world in a C# console app uses 4 MB RAM. Hello world in a C# GUI > app uses 8 MB RAM. > > It works in a PDA or smartphone with some hundred megs (with > .NET CF) and I think that is the smallest possible.. > > Arne And how much memory does it take in PAL-8? ;-) (hint - less than 32 bytes) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 18:02:08 +0100 From: Paul Sture Subject: Re: PL/I for Itanium Message-ID: In article <45C2102E.5020401@x.y>, BobH wrote: > Arne Vajhøj wrote: > > Paul Sture wrote: > > > >> According to that philosophy, C# is a non-starter for embedded systems. > > > > > > Hello world in a C# console app uses 4 MB RAM. Hello world in a C# GUI > > app uses 8 MB RAM. > > > > It works in a PDA or smartphone with some hundred megs (with > > .NET CF) and I think that is the smallest possible.. > > > > Arne > > And how much memory does it take in PAL-8? ;-) > > (hint - less than 32 bytes) One kind soul posted me a solution that took 28 bytes. :-) -- Paul Sture ------------------------------ Date: 1 Feb 2007 05:13:40 -0800 From: "tadamsmar" Subject: Re: PRODUCT INSTALL question Message-ID: <1170335619.741002.174100@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com> On Jan 31, 10:15 pm, John Santos wrote: > tadamsmar wrote: > > On Jan 30, 4:51 pm, p...@langstoeger.at (Peter 'EPLAN' LANGSTOeGER) > > wrote: > > >>In article <1170172242.963938.161...@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>, "tadamsmar" writes: > > >>>I have the PCSI$COMPRESSED file for the 7.3.2 UPDATE V9 patch. > > >>Good. > > >>>Is there any way to extract specific patches from that? > > >>No (supported) way. But/Because there is no need for it, because an UPDATE > >>ECO is (usually) a collection of (previously published) ECOs which are (or > >>were) all available separately (sometimes UPDATE contain more than the > >>collection of these ECOs and then I can understand why a few people want > >>to disbandle the UPDATE ECO ;-). If you can no longer find it on ITRC > >>drop me a line and I dig in my directories if I still have it... > > >>> For > >>>instance, can I pull out the TDF V3 patch and just apply that one? > > >>TDF V3 is part of UPDATE, but was already replaced by TDF V4 in Aug06 > >>which is also part of UPDATE. Why do you insist on TDF V3? > >>Do you confuse TDF and TZ ECOs? TZ V3 came after UPDATE 9 in Dec06 and > >>requires UPDATE 9 and you would therefor need both of them... > > > You are right that I can't just install TDF V3. I'd need to at least > > install UPGRADE V5 with it. > > > Nevermind... > > >>> Or > >>>do I have to go get the specific patch from the vms web site? > > >>If you can't install an UPDATE ECO, consider a VMS upgrade ;-) > > >>>I can't find a way to do only a specific patch using product install. > > >>?? > > >>PRODUCT INSTALL is it, just for every other ECO/product. You need the > >>right kit file of course. > > >>>My Alphas are not on the WWW so I have to go through some rigamarole > >>>to get the patch in place. > > >>One of us can send it (zipped) per mail if you like (and if your mailserver > >>has no rigorous size limit of course) if you like... > > Do you have any spare disks or is it a single-disk system? If you have a spare > disk (or room in the box to install one), you can get PCSI to redirect its work > files there with "product install/work=...", and put the .PCSI file (or the > PCSI$COMPRESSED file) on the spare disk as well. > > Don't use the /SAVE_RECOVERY_DATA qualifier and be sure to answer "NO" when it > asks if you want to save old versions of the files. (If you do this, you won't > be able to back out the patches, so you really should back up the whole system > disk before you start.) > > If you have a 2nd disk, but it is in use and close to full, you could remove it > and install a scratch disk, reboot, install the ECOs using the scratch disk > for work space, then shut down and re-install the original 2nd disk. ECOs > don't touch anything but the system disk. > > I don't know the exact numbers, but ECOs usually don't substantially increase > the net disk space required by VMS. Maybe a few percent at most. (Keeping > recovery copies of everything, on the other hand, can use a *huge* amount of > space.) > > I don't know exactly what disks an AXP150 supports, but usually systems of that > era work fine with RZ2x drives. An RZ29 (4.3GB) would probably work, but might > be too big (full height 3.5" drive) to fit and might run too hot. For temporary > use, you might be able to keep it cool by aiming a big fan at it. RZ26 (1GB) or > RZ28 (2GB) drives should work fine and would be ideal. RZ25 (.5GB) and smaller > would probably work fine but would probably be too small to be useful. Maybe > you could put your pagefile on one of them. > > RZ2x drives can be had for basically the cost of shipping on Ebay. I got a > dozen RZ29s in storage works canisters for about $50 plus shipping not long ago. > > -- > John Santos > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - The UG list RZ26 as the biggest drive: http://h18002.www1.hp.com/alphaserver/download/dec2000_ug.pdf I gave up when I found that the 7.3.2 SPD does not list the AXP 150 as a supported product. Funny, I installed 7.3.2 a while back and it seemed to work OK, but I never used it as a production machine. Could be its not supported because there is so little disk space left after you install it. Anyway, our application is used in a potentially high risk, high liability, so no way I am going to use a non-supported configuraton. I am going to surplus it. Wish I could free it up for a hobbyist, but I think it will end up being sold in a lot with a bunch of PCs. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 09:14:37 -0500 From: norm.raphael@metso.com Subject: Re: Purging across nodes deletes the only version of a file Message-ID: John Santos wrote on 01/31/2007 10:41:03 PM: > norm.raphael@metso.com wrote: > > > > "AEF" wrote on 01/31/2007 02:01:00 PM: [snip] > > I don't know what's going on here, Well, then why didn't you start a new topic 8-) ? [What's going on here is a not-well-understood side-effect of searchlists.] > ...but I *highly* recommend > /LOG/CONFIRM when doing something strange, unusual or confusing. > (At least the 2nd time you do it :-) That's actually a sound recommendation. > > Of course, one of my pet rants is they broke PURGE/CONFIRM long > about V7.0 when they re-wrote a bunch of utilities to use common > file parsing and searching code. One of the valid answers to > "Delete ? [N]: " is "A", which means purge "all" files. > > Prior to the change, it would purge all (lower numbered) versions > of the file it was asking about. Since the change, it purges not > only all lower numbered versions of this file, but all the rest of > the files that match the wild-card. > > For example, in sys$manager:, purge/log/confirm *.log would ask > about e.g. the DECWindows startup logs. They can go, type "A". > Then it would ask about the LANACP logs. Them too, "A". Next > OPERATOR.LOG, nope, want to keep those, through them all, > SAMBA startup logs, they can go, "A"... > > Now, type the "A" for the first DECwindows log, and Zap, everything's > gone... > > In other words, the DELETE program (which implements both DELETE and > PURGE) was sensitive to the difference between DELETE and PURGE, and > made "A" behave sensibly in both contexts. Now, it does exactly the > same thing. acts like you had typed "Y" to all the rest of the prompts > until it finishes. > > I complained a lot at the time, but I never got DEC/Compaq/HP to > even acknowledge that the behavior had changed, let alone that it > was intentional. (HELP is (or was at the time, I haven't looked at > it recently) quite ambiguous on the subject.) BTW, I would be > perfectly happy if they left "A" alone with the current behavior > and added a new keyword for the old behavior ("E" for "Every version?") > > Would you like me to submit an SPR ;) ? > > > -- > John Santos > Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. > 781-861-0670 ext 539 ------------------------------ Date: 1 Feb 2007 07:32:21 -0800 From: "AEF" Subject: Re: Purging across nodes deletes the only version of a file Message-ID: <1170343940.992153.33860@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> On Jan 31, 3:43 pm, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote: > "AEF" wrote on 01/31/2007 02:01:00 PM: > > > > > > > > > On Jan 31, 10:02 am, norm.raph...@metso.com wrote: > > > "Martyn.Patti...@gmail.com" wrote on > 01/31/2007 > > > 09:05:03 AM: > > > > > On 28 Jan, 20:03, koeh...@eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob > > > > Koehler) wrote: > [...] > > > Actually, it's not DECNet, but Searchlists that are causing your > problem. > > > They do not always behave as one would want. > > > True, but... > > > > Another example is when you mount a tape with the system account and > > > execute a DIRECTORY *.* command, the default is DIRECTORY SYS$LOGIN:*.* > > > which is a searchlist of sys$specific:[sysmgr], sys$common:[sysmgr] > > > and the result is two passes at the tape and a double-listing of the > > > files on it. > > > Yes, that's always fun! But we're not unexpectly losing files, at least! The search list is working as it was designed to in this case. > > > As was stated in an earlier post, be careful of searchlist defaults > > > and how you use them. > > > [...] > > > Then why this: > > In both cases, you only have version 1 (";1") > so of course nothing will be purged. Norm, The original problem was that there was initially only one version of a file and it was deleted by a PURGE command which included a search string with both elements pointing to the same directory with DECnet being involved because of different nodes. You said it was a problem due to the search list. So I set up the same thing minus the different nodes part and the file was not purged, UNLIKE the OP's original problem in which the file WAS deleted. Therefore, the problem is something more than just "misuse of a search list". (My examples were run on VAX/VMS v6.2 with all mandatory ECO kits applied.) AEF > > $ DEFINE L1 DSA1:[SCRATCH] > > $ DEFINE L11 L1:,L1: > > $ DIR L11:NEW.FILE > > > Directory DSA1:[SCRATCH] > > > NEW.FILE;1 0/0 16-JAN-2007 > > 08:18:08.27 > > NEW.FILE;1 0/0 16-JAN-2007 > > 08:18:08.27 > > > Total of 2 files, 0/0 blocks. > > $ PURG L11:NEW.FILE > > %PURGE-I-NOFILPURG, no files purged > > $ DIR L11:NEW.FILE > > > Directory DSA1:[SCRATCH] > > > NEW.FILE;1 0/0 16-JAN-2007 > > 08:18:08.27 > > NEW.FILE;1 0/0 16-JAN-2007 > > 08:18:08.27 > > > Total of 2 files, 0/0 blocks. > > $ > > $ DEFINE L2 DISK$DATA1: > > $ DEFINE L12 L1:,L2: > > $ DIR L12:NEW.FILE > > > Directory DSA1:[SCRATCH] > > > NEW.FILE;1 0/0 16-JAN-2007 > > 08:18:08.27 > > > Total of 1 file, 0/0 blocks. > > > Directory DISK$DATA1:[SCRATCH] > > > NEW.FILE;1 0/0 16-JAN-2007 > > 08:18:08.27 > > > Total of 1 file, 0/0 blocks. > > > Grand total of 2 directories, 2 files, 0/0 blocks. > > $ PURG L12:NEW.FILE > > %PURGE-I-NOFILPURG, no files purged > > $ DIR L12:NEW.FILE > > > Directory DSA1:[SCRATCH] > > > NEW.FILE;1 0/0 16-JAN-2007 > > 08:18:08.27 > > > Total of 1 file, 0/0 blocks. > > > Directory DISK$DATA1:[SCRATCH] > > > NEW.FILE;1 0/0 16-JAN-2007 > > 08:18:08.27 > > > Total of 1 file, 0/0 blocks. > > > Grand total of 2 directories, 2 files, 0/0 blocks. > > $ > > > AEF- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - ------------------------------ Date: 1 Feb 2007 10:35:37 -0800 From: bob@instantwhip.com Subject: Re: Purveyor CGI mailbox capacity [bit long winded] Message-ID: <1170354927.082284.235380@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Mark, I just found a problem message that displayed a "/HTML" on the end of the message, but when I redisplayed the message under yahmail with the mime button on the bottom, it displayed fine, so something changed with soymail as to break it as yahmail works fine ... just go back and put in the old yahmail logic for redisplayed the html page ... ------------------------------ Date: 1 Feb 2007 04:32:00 -0800 From: "Galen" Subject: Re: SYS$CLUSTER_NODE_FULLNAME not defined Message-ID: <1170333120.417882.178010@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> > Looking at NET$STARTUP you will see that the > SYS$CLUSTER_NODE_FULLNAME only > gets set up if your node is a cluster member and if you're using DECnet > cluster alias. Have you checked that the DECnet-Plus cluster alias stuff is > properly set up and that NCL reports it correctly and consistently on all > members of the cluster? > Colin and Paul, I should have stated that my system is not a cluster member. This is why I was rather puzzled about seeing SYS$CLUSTER_NODE_FULLNAME mentioned in the output from CDI$TRACE. I wouldn't mind converting it to a single node cluster, but I can't imagine that's a documented requirement. (Maybe my imagination's just not good enough? :-) I'm using the local namespace as only one DECnet Plus system is involved, and that just as a testbed/playground for my own use. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 17:10:18 GMT From: gerry77@no.spam.mail.com Subject: Re: Was installed with VMSINSTAL, can be upgraded with Polycenter? Message-ID: On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 15:10:17 GMT, John Reagan wrote: > Which version of OpenVMS are you running? Which RTL did you think you > needed? As I wrote before, at the end of my previous message, I'm using OpenVMS Alpha V7.2 and, as per installation manual (*), I had to install COBRTL V2.8-670B, suitable for OpenVMS versions higher than V7.1-1H2 (and lower than V7.3-2). Again: I did read the release notes, but that specific troubleshooting tip is for users trying to install a RTL on V7.3-2 or higher, while my system runs OpenVMS V7.2 which is lower. G. (*) http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/82final/6295/6295pro_001.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 18:41:19 GMT From: John Reagan Subject: Re: Was installed with VMSINSTAL, can be upgraded with Polycenter? Message-ID: gerry77@no.spam.mail.com wrote: > On Thu, 01 Feb 2007 15:10:17 GMT, John Reagan > wrote: > > >>Which version of OpenVMS are you running? Which RTL did you think you >>needed? > > > As I wrote before, at the end of my previous message, I'm using OpenVMS > Alpha V7.2 and, as per installation manual (*), I had to install COBRTL > V2.8-670B, suitable for OpenVMS versions higher than V7.1-1H2 (and lower > than V7.3-2). > > Again: I did read the release notes, but that specific troubleshooting > tip is for users trying to install a RTL on V7.3-2 or higher, while my > system runs OpenVMS V7.2 which is lower. My apologies. I didn't read all the information you posted. It seems you did the things in the correct order but something went wrong. The 2nd RTL attempt seemed to fix it. Looking at stuff at my end, I don't see anything obvious. I've never heard of this problem before. I'll look a little closer, but unless I can reproduce it, it might be chalked up to a stray cosmic ray or two. -- John Reagan HP Pascal/{A|I}MACRO/COBOL for OpenVMS Project Leader Hewlett-Packard Company ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 09:06:28 GMT From: "PL" Subject: Re: You gotta see this ! Message-ID: Yes, nice, but does anyone got the DIGITAL ad that's were on TV (CNN) around 93-94 when 4th generation of Alpha chip were out? I remember hearing someting like: "digital has it's 4th generation of 64-bits processor while the others has none yet, the difference hasn't been this big since the 60's" and then showing moving pictures of hippies like from the Monterey Pop Festival or similar and the digital-logo twisted. ^P "Island Computers, D B Turner" skrev i meddelandet news:12s232ttf1gil39@news.supernews.com... > http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4915875929930836239&q=windows+386& b3ta > > > It's about a 12 minute Windows Promo video from the 80's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > A must see ! > > -- > Island Computers US Corp > 2700 Gregory St > Savannah GA 31404 > Tel: 912 447 6622 x201 > Mail: dturner-atnospam-islandco-com > (You know what to do with the dashes) > > ------------------------------ End of INFO-VAX 2007.064 ************************